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Trump to announce 2024 run


the13bats

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7 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

Boy howdy, that's gotta be several thousand people! It's difficult to imagine how he could lose.

The Lehigh Valley is the third largest population center in Pennsylvania, led by Philadelphia and then Pittsburgh. The Scranton/ Wilkes Barre area is fourth. 

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On 4/13/2024 at 4:53 PM, DieChecker said:

I think youd find that base to be larger than you'd suspect. Lots of people were against the "untested" covid vaccines and boosters. May only got them because they were afraid not to.

I do believe many, if not most, of these are religious people. Mostly Protestant. Many evangelical.

Are you sure you're not just confined to religious circles who were largely conservative and who did listen to the anti vaccine crap? 

Untested kinda betrays you there. It's a term that only the uninformed use. I think your just more exposed to those minorities due to faith. Most people saw anti vaxers as dirty grubs who only think about themselves. 

On 4/13/2024 at 4:53 PM, DieChecker said:

Another point... Religious people have more kids. I got FOUR. Your average liberal has zero, or one.

The kids I knew growing up who had religious authorities as parents tended to buch that system and move away from the lifestyle. 

I also know people who rarely work of at all and have up to nine children. (One couple I know, not a couple anymore but had nine together) 

 And aren't a bit religious. Economic factors are probably more relevant these days. 

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On 4/13/2024 at 4:56 PM, DieChecker said:

No, I suggested they were religious. As in Central/South American Catholics.

And I was being snarky. Technically, we've been getting two million a year for several years, but historically its been under a million per year.

So was I. 

However, regardless of influx religious adherence is in decline. 

PF_2022.09.13_religious-projections_00-0

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On 4/13/2024 at 5:20 PM, DieChecker said:

Huh? Maybe because I got burned out on Trump, I was just tuning it all out?

Nobody could blame you for that. 

You missed the shoes, the trading cards, the bibles with a copy of the constitution? It would require a media blackout wouldn't it?.

On 4/13/2024 at 5:20 PM, DieChecker said:

Could be a glitch. I've said before that they try to "fix" the polls each year,  and seems each year, again, they are wrong.

Well after we saw the red wave, then Trump's strong return it does seem a bit all over the place. 

On 4/13/2024 at 5:20 PM, DieChecker said:

Actually, I believe I said "What has Biden done for non-college graduates". Meaning voters under 30 who only have a basic education.

What has he done for them?

Well they are the generation of parents so they are benefiting from the public school injection. Apart from that infrastructure. 614 billion dollars in private sector manufacturing and clean energy investments is benefiting them in the wats that matter whilst generating jobs to attain an impressive low unemployment rate. 

On 4/13/2024 at 5:20 PM, DieChecker said:

I think thats a bit over the top. The various Ammendments had to be passed by Three-Fourths of the states. Meaning at least half of the conservative states approved of things like the Civil Rights Ammendment.

Conservatives are more like, "Lets do this over 20, or 30, years", while liberals are like, "DO IT NOW! DO IT NOW!". 

And democrats initiated the changes and pulled those Republicans out of their overbearing conservative values. The GOP is coming apart at the seams. It's becoming Maga and RINO. Whacko Republicans are putting distance between themselves and thinking people. 

Things like gay rights or racism are indeed already 20-30 years overdue. Republicans adherence to conservatism makes it a collective stick in the mud. People suffer whilst Republicans dick around with their thumbs up their butts while the real world struggles around them. If you didn't have democrats nothing would happen. 

On 4/13/2024 at 5:20 PM, DieChecker said:

I dont know... Low Taxes. Promoting personal responsibility. States Rights. Protecting babies. Protecting religious rights. National security. Pro-military. Pro-Constitution. Pro-police.

https://gop.com/about-our-party/#:~:text=Our platform is centered on,and maintaining our national security.

All sounds OK to me.

Not what I'm seeing though. 

Low taxes have to come from somewhere. The stupidity of the Maga posters on this site and in general are quoting unrealistic prices, and blame DC for the globes problems. A Republican take on taxes seems to be built from fantasy in monopoly money.

What personal responsibility? Religion is always quoted and doesn't pertain to personal responsibility, it's a hierarchical structure with some god calling the shots. Then when I think of gun culture, America and personal responsibility becomes and oxymoron. 

Religious rights? The GOP is almost part theocracy! Very unbalanced. What religious rights are in peril? 

Pro military isn't commendable, pro defence is. Not the same thing. 

Protecting babies has resulted in your nation being denied an actual basic human right. You're the only western country I know if that has actually gone backwards to adopt old religious based ideals. 

I didn't see democrats who are anti constitution either, calls to update and clarify an outdated document isn't anti constitution in any way. It's pri constitution trying to keep an outdated document relevant today. 

On 4/13/2024 at 5:20 PM, DieChecker said:

Given... Trump isnt fiscally conservative. Or, known for his "election integrity". But he "checks" a lot of those boxes.

Yet his integrity doesn't falter when he himself contravenes those guidelines. Personally I feel that says a lot about his Christian supporters. 

That's where things become fanatical and hypocritical. 

On 4/13/2024 at 5:20 PM, DieChecker said:

But thats only if you cannot separate conservative from "MAGA". Which I do.

Trump can't though. Isn't that more important? 

On 4/13/2024 at 5:20 PM, DieChecker said:

Well, we'll see after the votes are counted how much of what sections of society he got.

I'm amazed that even Maga is still under his spell. It will be interesting as we might finally see what grift they fell for. I see posters here still saying there was a stolen election. I feel that's the pinnacle of Maga ignorance and stupidity. How can anyone align with that? One either has to be as stupid or supporting an agenda. I don't see what other options remain. Hillary wasn't far wrong about them you know. If at all. 

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4 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Are you sure you're not just confined to religious circles who were largely conservative and who did listen to the anti vaccine crap? 

Trump is polling at around 50%. And you think simple anti-vax people are a tiny minority?

There were plenty of pro-vax people, but also plenty of anti-vax people.

With context being "anti-vax" being someone who opposed the Covid shots, or the boosters, or questioned the vaccines in any way. 

Quote

Untested kinda betrays you there. It's a term that only the uninformed use.

Well, i dont really blame them. The vaccines came out in months. Whereas normally its like three or four years for a new vaccine to get to market.

Quote

 Most people saw anti vaxers as dirty grubs who only think about themselves.

Sorry to report thus, but like 90% of Americans only care about themselves. 

Quote

The kids I knew growing up who had religious authorities as parents tended to buch that system and move away from the lifestyle. 

I also know people who rarely work of at all and have up to nine children. (One couple I know, not a couple anymore but had nine together) 

 And aren't a bit religious. Economic factors are probably more relevant these days. 

That's all possibly true. But anecdotal evidence from Australia isnt necessarily what statistically is going on in the US.

I think statistics are on my side in this.

Kids are turning toward religion, and conservation, in the USA. Not yet in large numbers, but that could still happen.

This is from 2022.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/americas-growing-religious-secular-fertility-divide

Screenshot_20240414_235633_Chrome.thumb.jpg.8b4a35b37cd7c462b52fab40d9106552.jpg

You can see religious rate is about 2.1-2.2, and non-religious rate is around 1.3.

However...

Quote

Indeed, religious fertility rates simply are not high enough to offset losses from conversion to irreligion. 

But... That might be seeing a turn.

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4 hours ago, psyche101 said:

So was I. 

However, regardless of influx religious adherence is in decline. 

PF_2022.09.13_religious-projections_00-0

And just like it says... "...if current trend continues...".

Could be it flattens out, or even dips up, for a generation.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/05/17/the-religious-affiliation-of-us-immigrants/#affiliation

Quote

In 2012, by comparison, approximately 1,030,000 immigrants received permanent residency status, including an estimated 620,000 Christians (61%), 260,000 people of other faiths (25%) and 140,000 religiously unaffiliated immigrants (14%).

Roughly 85% of immigrants are religious. If we had six million of them in the last three years, that could raise the religiosity of the nation by about 1.5 percent.

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16 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Trump is polling at around 50%. And you think simple anti-vax people are a tiny minority?

There were plenty of pro-vax people, but also plenty of anti-vax people.

With context being "anti-vax" being someone who opposed the Covid shots, or the boosters, or questioned the vaccines in any way. 

He did lose the last election when Covid hit remember. His popularity wasn't peaking. 

There weren't as many anti vax people. Anti vax people are unintelligent. Like dumb as dog do. Unless you're telling me that the majority of Americans are dumb as a stone, the majority couldn't have been anti vaxers. I wasn't there, I was here. You know that. I saw people on planet America being interviewed who said they got bullied for wearing a mask. In some Maga town I could see the majority of people as unintelligent but across America is hard to believe. 

Many who opposed mandates were not anti vax. They had a dat ebil gubbermint conspiracy sitting on their shoulder but still understood the medical view and why it was more important than a political view. Some protected big pharma out of CT adherence too, but again, didn't join the anti vax idiots.

16 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Well, i dont really blame them. The vaccines came out in months. Whereas normally its like three or four years for a new vaccine to get to market.

Why don't you blame them? I do. Ignorance isn't a valid defence in this instance. I know you know better. 

It's a dumb conspiracy theory. Bureaucracy was hurried, not medicine. Anyone with even half a brain can expose that. 

It was a gutless excuse IMHO. 

16 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Sorry to report thus, but like 90% of Americans only care about themselves. 

That shouldn't affect my statement though. 

16 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

That's all possibly true. But anecdotal evidence from Australia isnt necessarily what statistically is going on in the US.

Fair enough. I wouldn't accept it as a standard either. Just my experience. 

16 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I think statistics are on my side in this.

Kids are turning toward religion, and conservation, in the USA. Not yet in large numbers, but that could still happen.

This is from 2022.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/americas-growing-religious-secular-fertility-divide

Screenshot_20240414_235633_Chrome.thumb.jpg.8b4a35b37cd7c462b52fab40d9106552.jpg

You can see religious rate is about 2.1-2.2, and non-religious rate is around 1.3.

However...

But... That might be seeing a turn.

But pew keeps reporting lower numbers and predictions suggest that the US will hit below 50% by around 2050. It's globally in decline. Has been for the last decade or so. 

And others are doing the big family thing anyway.

https://www.columbiatribune.com/story/lifestyle/faith/2016/06/04/big-families-do-not-equal/21830951007/

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53 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

And just like it says... "...if current trend continues...".

Could be it flattens out, or even dips up, for a generation.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/05/17/the-religious-affiliation-of-us-immigrants/#affiliation

Roughly 85% of immigrants are religious. If we had six million of them in the last three years, that could raise the religiosity of the nation by about 1.5 percent.

But currently the trend is downwards yeah?

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3 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Nobody could blame you for that. 

You missed the shoes, the trading cards, the bibles with a copy of the constitution? It would require a media blackout wouldn't it?.

Gimmicks. They were only seen on social media, and news sites, of the True Believers, and the OMFG-I-Hate-Trump followers. The 75% of people not in those groups never noticed, or like me, just laughed and moved on with life.

Quote

Well after we saw the red wave, then Trump's strong return it does seem a bit all over the place. 

We'll have to wait and see, I think.

Now that Biden is gaining in the polls, almost universally, across all polling... Those, who a month ago, said "**** the polls", are ssying, "Hey! Wait! I think these are correct!".

Quote

Well they are the generation of parents so they are benefiting from the public school injection. Apart from that infrastructure. 614 billion dollars in private sector manufacturing and clean energy investments is benefiting them in the wats that matter whilst generating jobs to attain an impressive low unemployment rate.

Meh. US people have children around 30. So the Youth Vote doesnt much include those affected by Biden school upgrades. Or those whos kids will soon see the upgrades.

Theyre more concerned about traffic, their job, and vacations/travel.

Quote

And democrats initiated the changes and pulled those Republicans out of their overbearing conservative values. The GOP is coming apart at the seams. It's becoming Maga and RINO. Whacko Republicans are putting distance between themselves and thinking people. 

Meh, youre overselling it still. MAGA still has a lot of power in the House of Representatives, but it's fading i think. I dont think we'll see a return to 2020, or 2022, when every politician running under GOP had to have a Trump blessing, or be doomed to lose.

GOP is actually pretty strong. Getting a bit out from under Trump. I think it is MAGA which is crumbling. Just as the Tea-Party is basically gone now.

Quote

Things like gay rights or racism are indeed already 20-30 years overdue. Republicans adherence to conservatism makes it a collective stick in the mud. People suffer whilst Republicans dick around with their thumbs up their butts while the real world struggles around them. If you didn't have democrats nothing would happen.

I cant believe the filters let you put "dick" and "butts", in the same sentence. 😆

As you have stated over and over, the USA isnt your "real world".

Quote

Not what I'm seeing though. 

Low taxes have to come from somewhere. The stupidity of the Maga posters on this site and in general are quoting unrealistic prices, and blame DC for the globes problems. A Republican take on taxes seems to be built from fantasy in monopoly money.

What personal responsibility? Religion is always quoted and doesn't pertain to personal responsibility, it's a hierarchical structure with some god calling the shots. Then when I think of gun culture, America and personal responsibility becomes and oxymoron. 

Religious rights? The GOP is almost part theocracy! Very unbalanced. What religious rights are in peril? 

Pro military isn't commendable, pro defence is. Not the same thing. 

Protecting babies has resulted in your nation being denied an actual basic human right. You're the only western country I know if that has actually gone backwards to adopt old religious based ideals. 

I didn't see democrats who are anti constitution either, calls to update and clarify an outdated document isn't anti constitution in any way. It's pri constitution trying to keep an outdated document relevant today. 

Im at the core a Keynesian, but though democrats often claim to be keynesian, they are not. A true keynesian will tax ( and pay debt) when economy is hot, and give tax breaks, and spend, when it is cold. Democrats only tax and spend. Ive not seen reasonable budgeting and spending since BJ Clinton was in office. Bush 2 started ok, but the wars quickly screwed things up.

Personal responsibilty is 400 million guns and only a couple thousand a year kill anyone. Personal responsibility is signing a contract and paying your rent/mortgage on time. Paying back loans, and credit cards . Taking care of your children, and spouses. Going to work, and doing what your paid to do... These are becoming less and less required. The government will feed your kids. And give you an apartment. And put you on assistance. And cancel your debts...

Religious rights are certainly in danger. The atheistic left is constantly trying to claim humanistic rights eclipse religious rights. And so far theyve been rebuffed.

Abortion, late term, is killing a child. Im all in favor of like 10 week, or for medical reasons. What the US is seeing is a direct reaction to leftist ideolgy. Conservatives left well enough alone for decades, but the left wants all or nothing. And they can have all, so in many places now they get nothing. Like petulant children who dont want 5 pieces of candy, but demand (as if a RIGHT) 10, or 20. Then cry, and cry, when the answer than is 0. Its not a Right. Not in the USA.

When you want to ignore the origonal framing of the Constitution, and write it over in your own image, that is not Pro-constitution. 

Quote

Yet his integrity doesn't falter when he himself contravenes those guidelines. Personally I feel that says a lot about his Christian supporters. 

That's where things become fanatical and hypocritical. 

Meh. To me conservatives are Christians because they are conservative. Not conservative because they are Christian. 

Like 10% poll as Hard Right MAGA. And another 20% poll as conservative Republican. And another 15% poll as right leaning Independents/Libertarians. 

People are polling for Trump because hes the GOP candidate, and not a Democrat. Its as simple as that.

Regardless of Trumps sins, crimes, impeachments, and whos cooter hes grabbed. If Bill Clinton, or Barak Obama, ran as a Republican 90% of Republicans wiuld vote for them.

We are that stupid. 

Quote

Trump can't though. Isn't that more important? 

Just doesnt matter. Its on the voter to choose. Almost everyone has had to vote for someone they only partly support.

Trump is Trump. The system will have to be his fence. If he breaks the fence than he'll have to deal with any consequences. As he is now.

Quote

I'm amazed that even Maga is still under his spell. It will be interesting as we might finally see what grift they fell for. I see posters here still saying there was a stolen election. I feel that's the pinnacle of Maga ignorance and stupidity. How can anyone align with that? One either has to be as stupid or supporting an agenda. I don't see what other options remain. Hillary wasn't far wrong about them you know. If at all.

Hillary was no angel.

I dont believe half, as Hillary said, but maybe 20%, which are the Hard MAGA supporters.

MAGA is a fad. Its the angry marginalized expressing their anger.

Even the people hired by Trump found the election results were good enough he would have lost anyway. 

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33 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

He did lose the last election when Covid hit remember. His popularity wasn't peaking. 

There weren't as many anti vax people. Anti vax people are unintelligent. Like dumb as dog do. Unless you're telling me that the majority of Americans are dumb as a stone, the majority couldn't have been anti vaxers. I wasn't there, I was here. You know that. I saw people on planet America being interviewed who said they got bullied for wearing a mask. In some Maga town I could see the majority of people as unintelligent but across America is hard to believe. 

Well, I'd say thats why I posted what the context of "anti-vax" was. Because there are actual anti-vax people out there who believe vaccines are bad for you, and cause autism in young kids. Which is pure stupid, as you said. 

And than there are those who had all the regular vaccines, but were not convinced these rushed vaccines were all together safe as they were being sold as. Especially given the companies pushing the vaccines are the same ones that way overcharge for most everything else. The Left has been saying for decades these companies are Evil, evil, evil. But they create a vaccine, and now, "Yes I trust them with my life".

So, yes, there are those who are stupid, and than there are those who were/are mistrustful, and IMHO not wrong to do so.

Quote

Many who opposed mandates were not anti vax. They had a dat ebil gubbermint conspiracy sitting on their shoulder but still understood the medical view and why it was more important than a political view. Some protected big pharma out of CT adherence too, but again, didn't join the anti vax idiots.

I'd say thats true of the mask mandate. And the "six feet, or two meters" rule (Which they admit they pulled out of their ass.)

I think those who were against the government vax mandate were very much questioning the vaccines at that point.

Quote

Why don't you blame them? I do. Ignorance isn't a valid defence in this instance. I know you know better. 

It's a dumb conspiracy theory. Bureaucracy was hurried, not medicine. Anyone with even half a brain can expose that. 

It was a gutless excuse IMHO. 

And yet, if you go look, there are studies being done now showing all kinds of possible long term effects. How many were saved to be crippled later?

Point being, obviously, they wanted the vaccines out fast, and they DID skip some steps.

You can call it an excuse, but technically its 100% true.

Quote

But pew keeps reporting lower numbers and predictions suggest that the US will hit below 50% by around 2050. It's globally in decline. Has been for the last decade or so. 

And others are doing the big family thing anyway.

https://www.columbiatribune.com/story/lifestyle/faith/2016/06/04/big-families-do-not-equal/21830951007/

Well if you want to ignore my link and new info found in polling... You go right ahead. 

Climate Change graphs show the temperature increase will keep going, so we cant change it, right? Trends can never change??

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22 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

But currently the trend is downwards yeah?

Yeah. I, myself, believe were heading toward religion being a small minority by 2100.

Unless everything falls apart before than. 

Climate Change...

Famine...

Oil Depletion...

World War 3...

Hugh Pandemic...

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22 hours ago, susieice said:

Local news covered the event and he had a fair sized crowd but it doesn't really reflex how popular he really is in the Lehigh Valley. 

Trump faithful turn out by thousands for Schnecksville stump speech (UPDATE) - lehighvalleylive.com

People pack Schnecksville Fire Company Fairgrounds ahead of Trump visit; his remarks to be livestreamed on wfmz.com | Lehigh Valley Regional News | wfmz.com

His rant about Gettysburg didn't go over big. I've heard comments were made about it even from the attendees.

Donald Trump's Rambling Rally Speech Raises Questions (msn.com)

 

I remember when McGovern came to Albuquerque on his campaign trial.   Most of the people in attendance were republicans who wanted to get a look at him, including a lot of my relatives.  

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trump actually challenged Biden to a debate      “anytime..anyplace..anywhere” ?   I’d love to hear his logic if someone asked him the difference between anyplace and anywhere?        :P     

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At least Trump knows how many states there are.

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Trump was told today he will not be allowed to attend the Supreme Court arguments on April 25 on his Presidential immunity claim.

New York judge says Trump can’t attend Supreme Court arguments on presidential immunity (msn.com)

The attempts by Trump to take off certain days of his hush money trial that is expected to last weeks, if not months, came as the first day of trial was officially underway in Manhattan. 

The decision to not allow Trump to be in Washington, D.C., on April 25, when the Supreme Court is set to hear oral arguments on a presidential immunity claim Trump is making in his federal criminal case, came just before the New York trial adjourned Monday.

“Arguing before the Supreme Court is a big deal, and I can certainly appreciate why your client would want to be there, but a trial in New York Supreme Court … is also a big deal,” Judge Juan Merchan said to Trump lawyer Todd Blanche, rejecting his request to let the former president play hooky.

Under New York state law, Trump is required to attend the entirety of his trial unless he gets special permission from the judge to skip.

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3 hours ago, Michelle said:

At least Trump knows how many states there are.

Old Uncle Joe make a mistake on that?    I think they are both pathetic.   

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29 minutes ago, lightly said:

trump actually challenged Biden to a debate      “anytime..anyplace..anywhere” ?   I’d love to hear his logic if someone asked him the difference between anyplace and anywhere?        :P     

It's a rhetorical device,  if this is the worst you can criticise Trump for, it must be a slow news week. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, lightly said:

Old Uncle Joe make a mistake on that?    I think they are both pathetic.   

No, it was Obama, who was still young enough you couldn't blame it on senility. :lol:

Edited by Michelle
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22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Gimmicks. They were only seen on social media, and news sites, of the True Believers, and the OMFG-I-Hate-Trump followers. The 75% of people not in those groups never noticed, or like me, just laughed and moved on with life.

It just seemed to flood everything at the time. I even saw it reported on the news down here. It just seems amazing that it wasn't shoved in your face too. 

I seriously considered buying some items myself to resell in November when they Magas will be in full swing. Like 1,500% mark up. 

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

We'll have to wait and see, I think.

Now that Biden is gaining in the polls, almost universally, across all polling... Those, who a month ago, said "**** the polls", are ssying, "Hey! Wait! I think these are correct!".

Well it's good to have hope I suppose. 

But you're right, historical records just don't inspire confidence. 

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Meh. US people have children around 30. So the Youth Vote doesnt much include those affected by Biden school upgrades. Or those whos kids will soon see the upgrades.

Theyre more concerned about traffic, their job, and vacations/travel.

Isn't that where his infrastructure programs help?

Inflation is dropping too, and excepted to continue to fall as the year rolls on. With the short memories voters seem to have that's likely to benefit Biden 

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Meh, youre overselling it still. MAGA still has a lot of power in the House of Representatives, but it's fading i think. I dont think we'll see a return to 2020, or 2022, when every politician running under GOP had to have a Trump blessing, or be doomed to lose.

GOP is actually pretty strong. Getting a bit out from under Trump. I think it is MAGA which is crumbling. Just as the Tea-Party is basically gone now.

That doesn't explain the current situation though. Trump's bewildering popularity and command of the vote. He's just blasted the other gop competitors out of the race. Haley was disappointing. 

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

I cant believe the filters let you put "dick" and "butts", in the same sentence. 😆

Maaaate

This is me we're talking about. 

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

As you have stated over and over, the USA isnt your "real world".

But conservatives are global. 

We wouldn't have gun regulations without liberal ideals. It's without doubt improved the country dramatically. Its only been twenty five years since being gay was decriminalised. We could shoot each other but gay people couldn't be together. It likely still would be that way if conservative Christian ideals were retained. You need democrats to push start the Republican vehicle.

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Im at the core a Keynesian, but though democrats often claim to be keynesian, they are not. A true keynesian will tax ( and pay debt) when economy is hot, and give tax breaks, and spend, when it is cold. Democrats only tax and spend. Ive not seen reasonable budgeting and spending since BJ Clinton was in office. Bush 2 started ok, but the wars quickly screwed things up.

I find when two major parties dominate, that the above scenario is fairly common. But I also find it takes both sides to keep things stable. They can't work together but both are needed. Your Republicans will make sure business keeps America funded whilst your democrat's make sure workers get a fair shake. 

That how things work it my experience. I assume America relies on those factors as well. 

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Personal responsibilty is 400 million guns and only a couple thousand a year kill anyone. Personal responsibility is signing a contract and paying your rent/mortgage on time. Paying back loans, and credit cards . Taking care of your children, and spouses. Going to work, and doing what your paid to do... These are becoming less and less required. The government will feed your kids. And give you an apartment. And put you on assistance. And cancel your debts...

The government has to step in. 

This isn't an American thing. It's global. Except the gun bit of course. When many people own multiple guns, that figure is less than impressive. It should read how many gun owners vs incidents. Not guns, not Americans. That's just softening the real number 

Kids getting their parents guns tells me there's not all that much personal responsibility in America. Guns are a national failure. You just don't know it because you don't know life without it. Children dying in schools is just deplorable. It's not normal. I know Americans largely don't give a hoot unless their own is harmed, but that doesn't change ethics. Gun culture is a turd in the world's toilet. There's no decent responsibility shown there as a nation otherwise it wouldn't be so sacred. And ethics are eroded in the process. Calling it a right is an insult to rights. 

Well I don't know about there, but as far as I'm concerned the government is here for the people. The pandemic hit and put lots of people out of work. Wages are behind inflation. Rents are unobtainable and what is our there is beyond affordable. More people are on the streets. If the government can help it's citizens it should. They shouldn't be on the streets because of wars in other countries or a medical emergency. 

The college debts Biden proposed were cut down. He didn't get a chance to implement that. But helping debt would grow economy. It's a trait of liberal value governments in general to stimulate economy. Sometimes it works sometimes not. 

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Religious rights are certainly in danger. The atheistic left is constantly trying to claim humanistic rights eclipse religious rights. And so far theyve been rebuffed.

Which rights?

Any that marginalised minority groups or other religions are valid. So are those that interfere with basic human rights. 

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Abortion, late term, is killing a child. Im all in favor of like 10 week, or for medical reasons. What the US is seeing is a direct reaction to leftist ideolgy. Conservatives left well enough alone for decades, but the left wants all or nothing. And they can have all, so in many places now they get nothing. Like petulant children who dont want 5 pieces of candy, but demand (as if a RIGHT) 10, or 20. Then cry, and cry, when the answer than is 0. Its not a Right. Not in the USA.

And the Republicans aren't being petulant children by saying you get nothing? That's worse by a long shot. 

It is a basic human right. That should override any constitution. 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/06/24/qa-access-abortion-human-right

https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/gender-sexuality/sexual-reproductive-rights/access-to-abortion/

 

I would say as far as the western world is concerned, it's a black mark on America and a step backwards. 

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

When you want to ignore the origonal framing of the Constitution, and write it over in your own image, that is not Pro-constitution. 

That's not what I'm seeing 

I'm seeing Republicans decide that they have the only final acceptable version and refuse to touch it. 

I honestly feel there are even many interpretations of the current document. It would only benefit the country to stop praying to it and edit the thing. 

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Meh. To me conservatives are Christians because they are conservative. Not conservative because they are Christian. 

Fair point. 

Few instances are blanket. 

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Like 10% poll as Hard Right MAGA. And another 20% poll as conservative Republican. And another 15% poll as right leaning Independents/Libertarians. 

People are polling for Trump because hes the GOP candidate, and not a Democrat. Its as simple as that.

So what happened to Haley in the primaries then? 

There were choices. Not that DeSantis turned out to be anything more than a mini Trump but Haley offered America a fresh approach. Yet the majority still went with the expired orange. 

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Regardless of Trumps sins, crimes, impeachments, and whos cooter hes grabbed. If Bill Clinton, or Barak Obama, ran as a Republican 90% of Republicans wiuld vote for them.

We are that stupid. 

And hypocritical regarding the faith they and Trump abuse. 

Stupid arrogant? I'm honestly not sure which when people claim to be gods children and then exhalt a dirty cheating liar as a leader. 

One just can't respect, or take seriously people who claim to be Christian but vote for devils. If there's a god, Maga is going to hell in a hand basket. As such Maga Christians have little to no credibility. 

Some as we know are just astoundingly removed from reality thinking Trump will make everything almost free. 

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Just doesnt matter. Its on the voter to choose. Almost everyone has had to vote for someone they only partly support.

Trump is Trump. The system will have to be his fence. If he breaks the fence than he'll have to deal with any consequences. As he is now.

Wouldn't a no vote send a stronger message than giving in? 

Again, Haley, the rallies, all supportive people are showing something more than "this is all we got". 

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Hillary was no angel.

I dont believe half, as Hillary said, but maybe 20%, which are the Hard MAGA supporters.

Pretty sure she said half to Trump's supporters. Which was probably pretty spot on st the time. Maga was in its infancy and few grasped the ugly thing it would become. 25% doesn't seem outrageous.

Sure she's no angel. Who is? Apart from me obviously.

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

MAGA is a fad. Its the angry marginalized expressing their anger.

It doesn't seem to be going anywhere soon. The resurgence is both bewildering and astounding.

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Even the people hired by Trump found the election results were good enough he would have lost anyway. 

But how many still claim it's true? Even here at UM there are clowns still saying the election was stolen and I suspect um comprises a fraction of a miniscule amount of the American people. Yet they infiltrate everywhere.

I'd be concerned about it as an American citizen. It's like a new KKK is forming. 

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23 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Well, I'd say thats why I posted what the context of "anti-vax" was. Because there are actual anti-vax people out there who believe vaccines are bad for you, and cause autism in young kids. Which is pure stupid, as you said. 

Agreed, pure stupid. 

23 hours ago, DieChecker said:

And than there are those who had all the regular vaccines, but were not convinced these rushed vaccines were all together safe as they were being sold as. Especially given the companies pushing the vaccines are the same ones that way overcharge for most everything else.

You keep using that word........ Incorrectly 

Not rushed. That's just not true. Bureaucratic hurdles are a different thing to testing. Being rushed is just myth 

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth- versus-fact

https://mydr.com.au/covid-19/was-the-covid-19-vaccine-rushed-dr-norman-swan/

No stupid as well, just perhaps to a lesser degree than above. 

23 hours ago, DieChecker said:

The Left has been saying for decades these companies are Evil, evil, evil. But they create a vaccine, and now, "Yes I trust them with my life".

So, yes, there are those who are stupid, and than there are those who were/are mistrustful, and IMHO not wrong to do so.

This is where people swallowed stupid whole. That how we got plain stupid and ultra stupid anti vaxers. 

This is a medical issue. Not a political one. 

It doesn't matter what government says what. They are politicians not doctors. Any person that refuses medical advice for political advice goes into the stupid category. Refusing to correct that situation is where it tumbles into ultra stupid. 

Mandates were a government direction based on medical advice. That was a government action, vaccines were a global medical effort, nothing to do with America's government so it's ridiculous to conflate the two. 

23 hours ago, DieChecker said:

I'd say thats true of the mask mandate. And the "six feet, or two meters" rule (Which they admit they pulled out of their ass.)

I'll bite 

Where you getting this from? 

23 hours ago, DieChecker said:

I think those who were against the government vax mandate were very much questioning the vaccines at that point.

And yet, if you go look, there are studies being done now showing all kinds of possible long term effects. How many were saved to be crippled later?

Again, what are you referring to?

Possible long term side effects? Based on? 

23 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Point being, obviously, they wanted the vaccines out fast, and they DID skip some steps.

Link above so you can correct your misunderstanding here. 

23 hours ago, DieChecker said:

You can call it an excuse, but technically its 100% true.

Well if you want to ignore my link and new info found in polling... You go right ahead. 

Climate Change graphs show the temperature increase will keep going, so we cant change it, right? Trends can never change??

:rofl: :lol:

Didn't click the link did you.

My last sentence is about it. It's not a poll. 

It's a story about large families in America. It's a secular thing too, people are often considered religious because they have a big family, but that's not the case. Some people just like a big family. 

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19 hours ago, Michelle said:

At least Trump knows how many states there are.

Maybe.     

 

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4 minutes ago, lightly said:

Maybe.     

 

That would be easy to do on the campaign trail. The last time the number of states changed was in 1959. That still doesn't end up with 57 as Obama stated.

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2 hours ago, Michelle said:

That would be easy to do on the campaign trail. The last time the number of states changed was in 1959. That still doesn't end up with 57 as Obama stated.

  Yup, and just as easy to do in the situation Obama was in when he mis-spoke.   But,okey-dokey,   Of course,    Obama forgot much more worser  than trump did…much more worser.  .  .so much.      

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