the13bats Posted April 18 Author #1276 Share Posted April 18 11 minutes ago, psyche101 said: Fines seem pretty light. Capt brownsweat is doing very well.. rudi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 18 #1277 Share Posted April 18 10 hours ago, lightly said: ….trump promises he would never end Medicare…but I can see him suddenly becoming helpless to stop ‘Congress’ from killing my Medicare advantage plan …if elected! Unfortunately, Biden Administration is already cutting benefits. https://www.newsweek.com/medicare-advantage-cuts-seniors-lose-benefits-biden-administration-adjustments-1886664 Not much, but the squeeze is on now, and I think the future, regardless of Trump/Biden, will be getting more grim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 18 #1278 Share Posted April 18 10 hours ago, lightly said: I don’t like the idea of mandatory insurances …insurance companies are far too powerful. ..in other words too RICH! I’ve saved the taxpayers millions so far with my plan ..because Medicare pays my insurance co. about $700.00 a month…and the insurance company (& my share) is then responsible for all of my health care costs! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Because theyre counting on the tens of millions of youngsters paying that same insurance, with little to no rebate. While at the same time, their spending never reaching their deductible limit. FedGov = Ka-ching!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 18 #1279 Share Posted April 18 On 4/16/2024 at 12:54 AM, psyche101 said: You keep using that word........ Incorrectly Not rushed. That's just not true. Bureaucratic hurdles are a different thing to testing. Being rushed is just myth https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth- versus-fact https://mydr.com.au/covid-19/was-the-covid-19-vaccine-rushed-dr-norman-swan/ No stupid as well, just perhaps to a lesser degree than above. So, testing normally done in series, was done in parallel? And the government supported using the unproven Chinese genetic sequencing. And tons of money, and human resources, were tossed at vaccines. But nothing was "rushed"??? Sounds like I'm using the term correctly to me. Quote This is where people swallowed stupid whole. That how we got plain stupid and ultra stupid anti vaxers. This is a medical issue. Not a political one. It doesn't matter what government says what. They are politicians not doctors. Any person that refuses medical advice for political advice goes into the stupid category. Refusing to correct that situation is where it tumbles into ultra stupid. You misunderstand. A lot of these people who were skeptical of the vaccines were professionals. My mother in law is a nurse of 40 years, and many doctors told her it was very unusual how quickly the vaccines came out. It was a honest medical decision by many to question the vaccines. Also unusual how the genetic data came out so fast from China. Apparently in about half the time usually taken to do such a task. https://www.statnews.com/2020/01/09/chinese-scientists-obtain-genetic-sequence-of-mysterious-virus-a-key-step-in-containment-efforts/ Quote Chinese scientists have recovered a previously unknown virus from an infected individual and generated a full genetic sequence of it, Quote The speed of the findings is impressive; the first case in this outbreak became ill less than a month ago. And... https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/17/health/coronavirus-sequence-database/index.html Quote On December 28, 2019, virologist Dr. Lili Ren of the Institute of Pathogen Biology at the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences & Peking Union Medical College submitted the genetic sequence Quote However, a different submission of the genetic sequence that was “nearly identical” to Ren’s was published on GenBank on January 12, Egorin said, one day after the World Health Organization said it had received the sequence from China. So much less than a month. Not impossible, but seems unlikely given how long those in the US took to verify. Quote nothing to do with America's government so it's ridiculous to conflate the two. I'd disagree the government (Trump) BADLY wanted a vaccine, and allowed various creative ways happen to make them come out quick. Funding was magnified, for one thing. Funds directly from the government. Quote I'll bite Where you getting this from? https://www.forbes.com/sites/graisondangor/2021/09/19/cdcs-six-foot-social-distancing-rule-was-arbitrary-says-former-fda-commissioner/ Quote One of former President Trump’s commissioners of the Food and Drug Administration, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, told CBS’ Face the Nation Sunday the six-foot social distancing rule created to slow the spread of the coronavirus was “arbitrary” and has decreased confidence in the pandemic response. The six-foot rule, Gottlieb said, was a compromise between the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which had recommended 10 feet, and an unnamed political appointee in the Trump administration who called 10 feet “inoperable.” Both the 10-foot and six-foot recommendations were unfounded, said Gottlieb, and show “the lack of rigor” in how the CDC made public health recommendations. Completely contrived. No study suggested 6 feet. Or even 10 feet. They just made a educated guess as it were. The rest of the world went along with it. Quote Again, what are you referring to? Possible long term side effects? Based on? Based on various people reporting effects, and studies being done. I just saw one the was about possible pregnancy related delays. It turned out to not be linked to covid vaccines. But other minor effects have been linked. First link when i googled it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9833629/ Quote It is undisputed that anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccines can have side effects. Long post-COVID vaccination syndrome (LPCVS) is one of them and is often neglected. And https://www.science.org/content/article/rare-cases-coronavirus-vaccines-may-cause-long-covid-symptoms Quote In rare cases, coronavirus vaccines may cause Long Covid–like symptoms. Brain fog, headaches, blood pressure swings are being probed by NIH and other researchers. Theres dozens or hundreds of articles to be found. And from very reputable sources. Quote It's a story about large families in America. It's a secular thing too, people are often considered religious because they have a big family, but that's not the case. Some people just like a big family. And yet statistically its true. Religious people, in general, have bigger families. Pointing out exceptions does not invalidate the data trends. 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lightly Posted April 18 #1280 Share Posted April 18 7 hours ago, DieChecker said: Unfortunately, Biden Administration is already cutting benefits. https://www.newsweek.com/medicare-advantage-cuts-seniors-lose-benefits-biden-administration-adjustments-1886664 Not much, but the squeeze is on now, and I think the future, regardless of Trump/Biden, will be getting more grim. The only change I’ve noticed ,so far, is my insurance getting tighter fisted about prescriptions… one, a switch to a generic for one costly medication. From your link: Under the Biden administration's latest adjustments, Medicare Advantage plans will see a slight base payment cut of 0.16 percent next year, igniting concerns over potential reductions in supplemental benefits for seniors.The changes introduced by the Biden administration are designed to ensure a more prudent allocation of taxpayer funds. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Despite the base payment reduction, Medicare Advantage plans are projected to receive a net payment increase of 3.7 percent, equivalent to $16 billion, once risk adjustments are applied. The broader context of the changes includes rising health care costs, influenced by increased demand for medical services as the population ages and the aftermath of the pandemic's deferred care. According to the CMS, the adjustments are aimed at enhancing health equity, providing more person-centered care, and ensuring the program's sustainability. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightly Posted April 18 #1281 Share Posted April 18 11 hours ago, DieChecker said: Unfortunately, Biden Administration is already cutting benefits. https://www.newsweek.com/medicare-advantage-cuts-seniors-lose-benefits-biden-administration-adjustments-1886664 Not much, but the squeeze is on now, and I think the future, regardless of Trump/Biden, will be getting more grim. Good point, Yes, the squeeze is on…and the squeezer is a two headed monster. Federally SUBSIDIZED, Unbridled Corporate GREED ! Even personal debt is being publicly SUBSIDIZED! Credit card ‘relief’ (but the bank gets it’s money..from US!) . Mortgage relief …(but Real Estate One gets it’s money…from US!). TAX RELIEF! (We eat that one, so people can afford to continue to SPEND beyond their means!). But, the $ystem gets it’s money! And yes, Trump/Biden is almost meaningless as a means to correct the overall situation. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted April 18 #1282 Share Posted April 18 (edited) The 12-person jury has been seated in Trump's hush money trial. Two had been removed before but now all 12 are sworn in. One alternate has been chosen and five more are needed. This is an updating link that has articles about what happened today in court. Trump trial live updates: Two seated jurors removed from Trump's hush money trial after issues raised (nbcnews.com) Edited April 18 by susieice 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted April 19 #1283 Share Posted April 19 From WPIX New York. 12 jurors have been seated in Donald Trump’s hush money trial | PIX11 The jury includes a sales professional, a software engineer, a security engineer, an English teacher, a speech therapist, multiple lawyers, an investment banker and a retired wealth manager. The trial will almost certainly feature unflattering testimony about the Trump’s personal life before he became president, with allegations that he falsifying business records to suppress stories in the final days of the 2016 election about his sexual relationships. The jury selection process appeared wobbly earlier in the day when two jurors were dismissed, one after expressing doubt about her ability to be fair following disclosure of details about her identity and the other over concerns that some of his answers in court may have been inaccurate. In other developments, prosecutors asked for Trump to be held in contempt over a series of social media posts this week, and the judge barred reporters from identifying jurors’ employers after expressing privacy concerns. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted April 20 #1284 Share Posted April 20 🤣 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 20 #1285 Share Posted April 20 On 4/18/2024 at 6:03 AM, lightly said: According to the CMS, the adjustments are aimed at enhancing health equity, providing more person-centered care, and ensuring the program's sustainability. Which is true. But some few are going to be much more affected than others. Who decides what is equitable? Will person-centered care result in more benefit, or less? I can focus on paying my water bill, but my electric bill may than suffer. And "ensuring sustsinabilty" is the same lsnguage often used to look at reducing social security payments, or decreasing cost of living raises. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 20 #1286 Share Posted April 20 On 4/18/2024 at 10:40 AM, lightly said: Good point, Yes, the squeeze is on…and the squeezer is a two headed monster. Federally SUBSIDIZED, Unbridled Corporate GREED ! Even personal debt is being publicly SUBSIDIZED! Credit card ‘relief’ (but the bank gets it’s money..from US!) . Mortgage relief …(but Real Estate One gets it’s money…from US!). TAX RELIEF! (We eat that one, so people can afford to continue to SPEND beyond their means!). But, the $ystem gets it’s money! And yes, Trump/Biden is almost meaningless as a means to correct the overall situation. ? Yeah, i dont agree with most debt forgiveness paid by the government. Because it only incentivizes idiots that spent money, that they borrowed, badly, to keep doing so. Its like California with the most money for programs to help the himeless, and so the homeless travel there. If you incentivize stupid, youre perpetuating it. People cant bankrupt out of student loans, but instead the tax payers will pay it off for you? WTH. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted April 21 #1287 Share Posted April 21 HUSH MONEY 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted April 23 #1288 Share Posted April 23 On 4/18/2024 at 7:37 PM, DieChecker said: So, testing normally done in series, was done in parallel? And the government supported using the unproven Chinese genetic sequencing. And tons of money, and human resources, were tossed at vaccines. But nothing was "rushed"??? Sounds like I'm using the term correctly to me. No your not, that's why the links call the allegedly rushed vaccine a myth. There was already a framework from the two previous SARS outbreaks. The genetic sequence, as the links state, was easy to gather establish and verify because there was so much of it because it spread quickly. From the second link: In fact, the COVID vaccines in use now were ready to go in January 2020. Paperwork was rushed. Not the trials. Over a decade of study is not a rush. On 4/18/2024 at 7:37 PM, DieChecker said: You misunderstand. A lot of these people who were skeptical of the vaccines were professionals. My mother in law is a nurse of 40 years, and many doctors told her it was very unusual how quickly the vaccines came out. It was a honest medical decision by many to question the vaccines. If it was as actually honest who didn't they go to the medical journals and sources and find out as opposed to pondering? They are in the best position to do so. A very good friend of mines wife works in the OT. Head nurse. Married year before last. She was able to tell me anything about the vaccine at the time and had no hesitations whatsoever. All the nurses she worked with wished people were more sensible and just got vaccinated. They were run off their feet. On 4/18/2024 at 7:37 PM, DieChecker said: Also unusual how the genetic data came out so fast from China. Apparently in about half the time usually taken to do such a task. https://www.statnews.com/2020/01/09/chinese-scientists-obtain-genetic-sequence-of-mysterious-virus-a-key-step-in-containment-efforts/ And... https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/17/health/coronavirus-sequence-database/index.html So much less than a month. Not impossible, but seems unlikely given how long those in the US took to verify. 59 people, 15 of which provided fragments of data to piece together. It's more transmissible than most viruses giving doctors an edge they wouldn't normally have. Due to the nature of the virus and subsequent high transmission I don't think it's all that difficult to believe. On 4/18/2024 at 7:37 PM, DieChecker said: I'd disagree the government (Trump) BADLY wanted a vaccine, and allowed various creative ways happen to make them come out quick. Funding was magnified, for one thing. Funds directly from the government. Trump eventually wanted a vaccine you mean, after voters started dropping dead. And they were his supporters who largely ignored all safety measures. This means nothing though. It doesn't matter who wanted or funded anything. What I'm referring to here is experience. Even a moron wouldn't think to see their local government representative for flu symptoms or s guy problem would they. Because the politician has not the slightest inkling of what to do. You would be consulting a person with no more medical expertise than yourself. Might as well ask a fisherman how to do brain surgery. Same applies to Covid. You don't take advice from a politician about medical issues. Unless one is a complete moron. You see a doctor. Anyone who took political advice is simply not worth listening to. So no. I can't agree that politics has a dog in this race. No thinking person goes to politics for medical advice. On 4/18/2024 at 7:37 PM, DieChecker said: https://www.forbes.com/sites/graisondangor/2021/09/19/cdcs-six-foot-social-distancing-rule-was-arbitrary-says-former-fda-commissioner/ Completely contrived. No study suggested 6 feet. Or even 10 feet. They just made a educated guess as it were. The rest of the world went along with it. Fauci said similar, that the rule just appeared. This guy yeah? Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former FDA chief in the Trump administration, told CNBC on Friday that masks are definitely effective in slowing the spread of the coronavirus. Gottlieb was pushing back against an inaccurate interpretation of a recent study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC study, published in September, has attracted attention in recent days for one of its additional data points: 85% of the participants who tested positive said they wore masks often or always. For those who tested negative, 89% said they wore masks often or always. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/10/16/dr-scott-gottlieb-on-inaccurate-take-on-cdc-mask-data-cited-by-trump.html Or this MARGARET BRENNAN: But it's not just shots. We're talking about masks. DR. GOTTLIEB: And the mask debate is inexplicable to me. I can't- I can't decouple it. I can't explain it. I can't defend it. People generally have an apprehension about taking a medical product, especially when they're healthy, especially for a preventative purpose. I understand just sort of people's general questions and concerns about a novel medical product, but a mask is such a simple intervention it's not going to cause you any harm. It's just an act of, you know, community responsibility. It's an act of respect. And I think, you know, the federal government is well within its right to mandate vaccination for federal workers, for health care workers. I think even mandating vaccination within the Medicare program could be something that's defensible. But when you impose the mandate down to the level of small businesses, now you're setting up the political fault lines and you're taking something that was sort of subjectively, political and it's going to be objectively political. So are you going to get enough benefit from a public health standpoint for the price you pay in terms of hardening those lines? I think that was worth a very vigorous debate, I hope the White House had it. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/transcript-dr-scott-gottlieb-face-the-nation-09-19-2021/ Bit all over the place isn't he. They weren't useless if that's where you're going. What Gottlieb is saying is corona is a finer droplet and masks aren't as effective as they may be against other viruses. Nobody refined knowledge specifically for Covid. Yi me that's a nothing burger. There are plenty of studies showing the efficacy of distancing. Something is better than nothing. That's not untrue. On 4/18/2024 at 7:37 PM, DieChecker said: Based on various people reporting effects, and studies being done. Yes well, one poster is reporting an alleged vaccine cancer connection, and claims the vaccine caused the cancer in milliseconds. Reports are arbitrary. On 4/18/2024 at 7:37 PM, DieChecker said: I just saw one the was about possible pregnancy related delays. It turned out to not be linked to covid vaccines. But other minor effects have been linked. First link when i googled it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9833629/ And https://www.science.org/content/article/rare-cases-coronavirus-vaccines-may-cause-long-covid-symptoms Theres dozens or hundreds of articles to be found. And from very reputable sources. And people being crippled? Where that coming from? The above links are saying severe reactions can come from at least two human conditions. One being allergy which is certainly not a vaccine fault and that Covid can still affect brain cells of vaccinated leaving some instances of post and long Covid unavoidable. As for things like cold sweats, shakes, headache etc - they were all announced at the onset. They were expected side effects. At the time some exaggerated that to mean certain death to, but it was all very silly talk from very silly people. We know there a small rejection rate too. As there is with every vaccine in existence. Sorry, I just don't believe it. Adverse effects, sure, some complications, sure, some will even die. It's just not to say they wouldn't have with Covid either. And a miniscule predicted amount. On 4/18/2024 at 7:37 PM, DieChecker said: And yet statistically its true. Religious people, in general, have bigger families. Pointing out exceptions does not invalidate the data trends. I didn't imply that it did. I'm not challenging your data. What I'm saying is it is becoming popular in the secular groups as well. To a point, as it states in the article, where support groups have appeared to assist people with large families. Which suggests to me that there will be more are religion continued to drop off. If there are support groups, then there a notable demand. It may be more attractive to the secular society than you give credit for. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted April 23 Author #1289 Share Posted April 23 10 minutes ago, psyche101 said: You don't take advice from a politician about medical issues. Unless one is a complete moron Flashback time, one would think no one in their right mind would take medical advice that their life hinged on from a politician or make a game show host a POTUS, tRump not only kept things from the American people he did it for self serving reasons same as in his downplaying and dismissing safety precautions and sure enough his worshippers are it like candy, he didn't care if people died. His so called response to covid was a utter complete and total life costing incompetent disaster. Yeah, I guess he cared when it killed a few of his voting minions, and heads up to BOM subjects who are antivaxxers, your Messiah got the vax. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted April 23 #1290 Share Posted April 23 6 minutes ago, the13bats said: Flashback time, one would think no one in their right mind would take medical advice that their life hinged on from a politician or make a game show host a POTUS, tRump not only kept things from the American people he did it for self serving reasons same as in his downplaying and dismissing safety precautions and sure enough his worshippers are it like candy, he didn't care if people died. His so called response to covid was a utter complete and total life costing incompetent disaster. Yeah, I guess he cared when it killed a few of his voting minions, and heads up to BOM subjects who are antivaxxers, your Messiah got the vax. Just yet another thing he should be held accountable for bit won't be Maga is soft on corporate crime. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted April 23 Author #1291 Share Posted April 23 8 minutes ago, psyche101 said: Just yet another thing he should be held accountable for bit won't be Maga is soft on corporate crime. Ah, yes, however in theory if OJ could dodge the murder conviction yet bigly loose the civil trial then would it really take much to bring a class action suit against BOM, I could see a bored attorney put out a net asking for those who lost family because of incompetent covid response from a failure POTUS to sign up, Likely he would slime out of it by crying he did what he thought was best but it's known that's not the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 24 #1292 Share Posted April 24 On 4/23/2024 at 12:09 AM, psyche101 said: No your not, that's why the links call the allegedly rushed vaccine a myth. There was already a framework from the two previous SARS outbreaks. The genetic sequence, as the links state, was easy to gather establish and verify because there was so much of it because it spread quickly. From the second link: In fact, the COVID vaccines in use now were ready to go in January 2020. And so youd simply trust the MegaPharma people? No trials needed? Studies in parallel, where with 99% of these they are done in series? Thats not a myth, it is being rushed. Rushing leads to shoddy work. And people getting hurt unnecessarily. I see many links online saying the vaccines were "not rushed", only "hurried", and each one explains how everything was done in record time, with no corners cut, except the corners which were cut. With producers even producing before approval. No sir, no corners cut here... Lots of "apologist" sites if you ask me. Nitpicking over wording. While admitting things were hurried. By the researchers, the corporations, and the government. Quote Paperwork was rushed. Not the trials. Over a decade of study is not a rush. And how would i know that to be true? Because the fellows who created it said so?? Because the Biden Administration said so? If the paperwork was rushed, wouldnt that mean problems could have been missed? If I'm building a nuclear reactor, do we rush the paperwork, even if the construction was completed on time? I did find this... Quote During the Select Subcommittee’s hearing titled “Assessing America’s Vaccine Safety Systems, Part 1,” FDA Director Dr. Peter Marks testified that the FDA’s approval of the COVID-19 vaccine may have been rushed in order to meet arbitrary mandate policies set forth by the Biden Administration. Previous documents uncovered by the Select Subcommittee revealed that scientists warned Dr. Marks and other FDA officials on numerous occasions about the dangers of rushing the COVID-19 vaccine approval process. The FDA seemingly disregarded the warnings, dismissed the scientists who brought forward the concerns, and went forward with the accelerated approval process. The day after approval, the Biden Administration announced its first COVID-19 vaccine mandate. https://oversight.house.gov/release/wenstrup-investigates-fdas-rushed-approval-of-the-covid-19-vaccine/ Huh? So a Director of the approving government body raised doubts, and was silenced. And than the Biden Administration announced the shots were required the day after the "rushed" approval. Huh? Quote They are in the best position to do so. A very good friend of mines wife works in the OT. Head nurse. Married year before last. She was able to tell me anything about the vaccine at the time and had no hesitations whatsoever. All the nurses she worked with wished people were more sensible and just got vaccinated. They were run off their feet. That may be so, and i know hospitals here varied from 100% vax, to somewhat less so. Point is that medical professionals expressed doubt, and in the initial issuing of the vaccines, it was not uncommon, and not uncalled for. Quote 59 people, 15 of which provided fragments of data to piece together. It's more transmissible than most viruses giving doctors an edge they wouldn't normally have. Due to the nature of the virus and subsequent high transmission I don't think it's all that difficult to believe. And yet after that initial three weeks of open sharing, China locked down, and has been so ever since. People were disappeared for sharing. Labs were shuttered. Its true Covid sequencing was done by many afterward, but the initial data from China has many interesting stories revolving around it. Quote This means nothing though. It doesn't matter who wanted or funded anything. What I'm referring to here is experience. Even a moron wouldn't think to see their local government representative for flu symptoms or s guy problem would they. If the question is did government involvement speed up Covid vaccine deployment. Than the answer is yes. Extra funding. Extra eyes on the problem. It 100% mattered. Quote You see a doctor. Anyone who took political advice is simply not worth listening to. So no. I can't agree that politics has a dog in this race. No thinking person goes to politics for medical advice. I saw my doctor, and he had said the choice was mine. That likely I'd be fine. And then after getting it, he said the next year, after testing my antibodies, again, that i should be fine. The government should not, and now (in USA) can not, require/force people to take a vaccine against their will. Quote MARGARET BRENNAN: But it's not just shots. We're talking about masks. Funny, but i was talking distancing. Now you're bringing up masks? Quote They weren't useless if that's where you're going. What Gottlieb is saying is corona is a finer droplet and masks aren't as effective as they may be against other viruses. Nobody refined knowledge specifically for Covid. Yi me that's a nothing burger. There are plenty of studies showing the efficacy of distancing. Something is better than nothing. That's not untrue. Distancing and masks are two, related, but distinct, issues. I was talking distancing. There probably are studies showing distancing has a positive effect, but i would challenge you to find one from before the 6 foot standard was announced. The article stated studies had been done, but not to an equivalent airborne virus. Quote Yes well, one poster is reporting an alleged vaccine cancer connection, and claims the vaccine caused the cancer in milliseconds. Reports are arbitrary. And yet medical rigor requires issues be looked into. History is full of vaccines and medicines, that were considered safe, but then showed long term effects later. Quote Sorry, I just don't believe it. Adverse effects, sure, some complications, sure, some will even die. It's just not to say they wouldn't have with Covid either. And a miniscule predicted amount. Regardless, my point remains testing was limited and quick. If testing had been thorough, most of the questions these research studies are looking at would be known. Not to say the vaccines shouldn't have been made available, but that it isnt crazy to question them, and to even put off getting them, if one is young, and/or healthy. Quote I didn't imply that it did. I'm not challenging your data. What I'm saying is it is becoming popular in the secular groups as well. To a point, as it states in the article, where support groups have appeared to assist people with large families. Which suggests to me that there will be more are religion continued to drop off. If there are support groups, then there a notable demand. It may be more attractive to the secular society than you give credit for. Possibly. But if big families goes from (numbers just for arguement sake) 95% religious people, to 92% religious people, have you really proven any thing? Pointed out a slight trend doesnt speak to the greater population. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Razman Posted April 24 #1293 Share Posted April 24 Again i read that Trump keeps calling for election integrity , like he did in 2016 and 2020. So right from the get go he's been doing this , it's been his game all along . Yet in a sense , isn't this part of what the hush money trial is about? That he manipulated all that at a crucial time during an election , where he manipulated the situation to help him win the election in 2016. What an upright , integrity kind of guy, no? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted April 25 #1294 Share Posted April 25 Arizona has indicted 18 people in 2020 election electors scam. Arizona indicts 18 in case over 2020 election in Arizona, including Giuliani and Meadows (msn.com) PHOENIX (AP) — An Arizona grand jury has indicted former President Donald Trump 's chief of staff Mark Meadows, lawyer Rudy Giuliani and 16 others for their efforts to use so-called fake electors to try to overturn Trump’s loss to Joe Biden in the 2020 presidential election. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Socks Junior Posted April 25 #1295 Share Posted April 25 22 minutes ago, susieice said: Arizona has indicted 18 people in 2020 election electors scam. Arizona indicts 18 in case over 2020 election in Arizona, including Giuliani and Meadows (msn.com) PHOENIX (AP) — An Arizona grand jury has indicted former President Donald Trump 's chief of staff Mark Meadows, lawyer Rudy Giuliani and 16 others for their efforts to use so-called fake electors to try to overturn Trump’s loss to Joe Biden in the 2020 presidential election. It's what we like to see. Stop the Steal! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted April 25 #1296 Share Posted April 25 On 4/18/2024 at 4:37 AM, DieChecker said: Sounds like I'm using the term correctly to me. You will NEVER convince the true believers. They will literally die believing their media-programming on that virus. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Razman Posted April 25 #1297 Share Posted April 25 38 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said: 1 hour ago, susieice said: Arizona has indicted 18 people in 2020 election electors scam. Arizona indicts 18 in case over 2020 election in Arizona, including Giuliani and Meadows (msn.com) PHOENIX (AP) — An Arizona grand jury has indicted former President Donald Trump 's chief of staff Mark Meadows, lawyer Rudy Giuliani and 16 others for their efforts to use so-called fake electors to try to overturn Trump’s loss to Joe Biden in the 2020 presidential election. Expand It's what we like to see. Stop the Steal! Yea , the more you think about it , like i pointed out in the post above Susieice , Trump was talking about election fraud even in the 2016 election that he won. I think even widespread fraud. You know , so it plants the seed in peoples minds that the other is or might do this, all the while , he was manipulating and hiding things then to help him win that election . Then in 2020 when he lost and again claimed widespread election fraud , even after all this time and all their effort , they could find no proof of that . So meanwhile around Jan. 6th , they hatch this false electors scheme(amongst other things), and literally try to steal the election and point the finger at the other side to accuse them of that very thing. I think in time as things become more in the open , it's becoming more and more clear exactly what kind of guy Trump is and what he's about. And i get the feeling a lot of people ,even those that support him , already know , but they don't care. They don't like Biden and they think Trump is gonna do some kind of great thing , or save us from wars or something , so they just let it all fall under the carpet and keep on with Trump's narrative. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted April 25 Author #1298 Share Posted April 25 58 minutes ago, and-then said: You will NEVER convince the true believers. They will literally die believing their media-programming on that virus. Tell those whose BOM s utter incompetency and failure in his covid response killed, tell their survivors morning them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted April 25 #1299 Share Posted April 25 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: And so youd simply trust the MegaPharma people? No trials needed? First point. Your terminology betrays your poor sources. Mega phara or big pharma or pr whatever you want to call them are without doubt at the leading edge of technology. Yes, you would indeed trust them over that liar Trump or the inexperienced conspiracy laden GOP. Again, following a political trail on a medical issue is a fools errand. Second point. No trials? BS. 199 candidates in clinical development plus 180 vaccine candidates in clinical trials plus 50 vaccine candidates in phase iii clinical trials and 11 candidates in phase four post licensure surveillance says your wrong Google the numbers. And before that, research on it actually began in the early 1990s, and two diseases that are very close to COVID—SARS in 2003, and MERS helped bring the mRNA vaccine development to present day use. No. You're not using the term correctly. Not even close. You have perpetuated political misinformation. 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: Studies in parallel, where with 99% of these they are done in series? Overlapping. Explain exactly where the issue lies here. Why do you maintain there is reason for concern? It's a well known technology. Although they were overlapping, not in parallel, explain the advantages of putting the tests in series. 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: Thats not a myth, it is being rushed. Rushing leads to shoddy work. And people getting hurt unnecessarily. No. It's a myth. And created both out of ignorance and political handballing. MYTH: The COVID vaccines were not rigorously tested, which is why they have only emergency authorization approval and not full Food and Drug Administration approval. (Update: Pfizer’s vaccine received full FDA approval on August 19) FACT: “Vaccine developers didn’t skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.”—Johns Hopkins Medicine Assoumou: This is the most common question I get asked. I think there is a perception that things moved very fast, but we want to underscore that the technology being used now was being studied for a decade. The main difference between emergency use versus full FDA approval is that you need two months of monitoring rather than six months. When you look at the history of vaccines, if patients were to develop side effects, these occurred within two months. We are now over six months into our experience with these vaccines. We have not seen anything that would make us believe that the risks outweigh the benefits. And vaccines have saved so many lives. Hamer: The development was more rapid than many other vaccines. But it used the same process of phase one and phase two trials following appropriate safety measures. Stage three trials were large-scale trials done rigorously with very clear outcome definitions. The safety measures and approaches taken are standard for clinical trials. They just did it more rapidly than usual. The full process review is ongoing and we are already hearing that Pfizer will have full FDA authorization by September and Moderna soon after. https://www.bu.edu/articles/2021/myths-vs-facts-covid-19-vaccine/ 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: I see many links online saying the vaccines were "not rushed", only "hurried", and each one explains how everything was done in record time, with no corners cut, except the corners which were cut. With producers even producing before approval. No sir, no corners cut here... Lots of "apologist" sites if you ask me. Nitpicking over wording. While admitting things were hurried. By the researchers, the corporations, and the government. Then why don't you take your time to read them properly and understand why they were not rushed, where an ignorant layman led by political narratives might think otherwise. That is what the articles try to achieve is it not? You don't know what phase is alleged rushed do you? You don't really know if it was paperwork or specific tests that were allegedly rushed so you? You're regurgitating a narrative. There's a reason that the professionals say it wasn't rushed. There's also a reason politicians are saying it was. The facts are there is over a decade of work behind the vaccine and four phases of trials. 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: And how would i know that to be true? Because the fellows who created it said so?? Because the Biden Administration said so? Because the information that illustrates no corners were cut come from the medical field. Again, you keep involving politics. It's where you go wrong here. It doesn't matter what Biden or Trump say anymore than it matters what that raving loon RFK says. It's not their field. 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: If the paperwork was rushed, wouldnt that mean problems could have been missed? No. Red tape is not testing. It's not technically involved. It has no bearing on medical applications. It's a guideline to follow. People's general ignorance of mRNA technology is the only hurdle. 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: If I'm building a nuclear reactor, do we rush the paperwork, even if the construction was completed on time? Yes. Would you let people freeze because of some bylaw that can't fit the current situation? If trials were completed why would you make people suffer. 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: I did find this... https://oversight.house.gov/release/wenstrup-investigates-fdas-rushed-approval-of-the-covid-19-vaccine/ Huh? So a Director of the approving government body raised doubts, and was silenced. And than the Biden Administration announced the shots were required the day after the "rushed" approval. Huh? Silenced my backside. There's hundreds of links to that claim rendering the claim ineffective. This is from 2020 Earlier, Republican U.S. Representative Brad Wenstrup, a physician and Trump supporter, dismissed those concerns in a call with reporters, saying the U.S. Food and Drug Administration would ensure any new vaccine was safe. "We believe the FDA is not going to approve something that isn’t safe and effective," Wenstrup said. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2671R8/ A trump supporter flip flipped is what actually happened. His actual complaint is that it would have pushed the Biden administration to cut corners, inadvertently admitting that is what is currently the situation he wished to challenge. Then he is saying that it was mandated too quickly to military. For what? Is he saying it's a money making exercise? Because we both know that's a dumb angle. The money was coming no matter what. The companies involved knew they faced a global situation and the return would be global. Again. Politicians know nothing about vaccine testing is making. You might as well quote a sanitation worker. 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: That may be so, and i know hospitals here varied from 100% vax, to somewhat less so. Point is that medical professionals expressed doubt, and in the initial issuing of the vaccines, it was not uncommon, and not uncalled for. And yet their superiors, the most experienced, were in unison with the majority of the profession. And that was the case. The majority of the medical profession, GPs to brain surgeons agreed it was the best option. People in the medical profession who wondered only let themselves down. They had more opportunity than you or I to get things from a horses mouth. Ask them why didn't they do that instead of fear mongering. If be interested in what an answer is. Breakaway groups like the frontline doctors took a political stance and spread doubt and misinformation. Every single one of them should now have their licences removed for the harm they caused. I see Simone Gold only got sixty days jail. She should have been charged with multiple counts of manslaughter for every person she and her group of liars led to their death. 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: And yet after that initial three weeks of open sharing, China locked down, and has been so ever since. People were disappeared for sharing. Labs were shuttered. Yeah, we've been over this in the lab leak BS. Thank your idiot president Trump. His Chyna virus crap really p***ed off xi. Quite frankly it's amazing the orange idiot didn't start a war with his dumb mouth. Quite frankly it could have been much worse. 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: Its true Covid sequencing was done by many afterward, but the initial data from China has many interesting stories revolving around it. I got some interesting stories too. Doesn't make them true. I'm not one to place importance on gossip. 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: If the question is did government involvement speed up Covid vaccine deployment. Than the answer is yes. Extra funding. Extra eyes on the problem. It 100% mattered. Still apples and oranges Nobody in government fits in a lab anymore than a doctor fits in the presidents chair. Two completely different things. We have established that you wouldn't see a politician about a medical issue. Of course not, you're not silly, so what exactly is the point of continually returning to what politicians say about the vaccine? Can you name any who actually worked on it? 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: I saw my doctor, and he had said the choice was mine. That likely I'd be fine. And then after getting it, he said the next year, after testing my antibodies, again, that i should be fine. Well you should switch doctors because that's not good advice. Feel free to tell him I said so. My doctor is a very polite fellow and would say his advice isn't sound. It's not just you. It's everyone around you too. Another place people go wrong with vaccine fear. 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: The government should not, and now (in USA) can not, require/force people to take a vaccine against their will. A poor choice and a stupid one New Zealand is living proof. Lowest death count per capita. Lowest infection rates. Best results in the world. Because their government had a set and did what needed to be done. So many people in the states means many wayward crazies as well. Your government buckled and caved under that pressure. It's a weak move. Something to be ashamed, not proud of. People died because your leaders were weak. 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: Funny, but i was talking distancing. Now you're bringing up masks? Distancing and masks are two, related, but distinct, issues. I was talking distancing. Yes. My bad I got carried away. Sorry about that. 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: There probably are studies showing distancing has a positive effect, but i would challenge you to find one from before the 6 foot standard was announced. The article stated studies had been done, but not to an equivalent airborne virus. You know it was the prime measure for the 1918 Spanish flu? And it worked? And that event has been documented extensively? It's been in practice since mediaeval times. It's how STDs, the black plague and other major pandemics were handled. Sailors in the 14th century sat in quarantine. History in a Crisis — Lessons for Covid-19 Without too much trouble, here is one such link. https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.0611071104 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: And yet medical rigor requires issues be looked into. History is full of vaccines and medicines, that were considered safe, but then showed long term effects later. Yet it's politicians questioning the testing process while doctors are saying they are wrong. I will always trust my chief medical officer over your politicians. Remember this is a global pandemic. We all had a dog in this race, yours was Pfizer, ours Astra Zenica. This is mRNA technology. It's not a bunch of witches boiling bane and bats wings. The science is actually very interesting. If you do understand it, what aspect of the vaccine do you feel could offer long term effects knowing how the vaccine targets the virus and lifespan of the vaccine in your body? 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: Regardless, my point remains testing was limited and quick. If testing had been thorough, most of the questions these research studies are looking at would be known. They were!!! That's what anti vaxers were calling hidden vaccine side effects!! What you have listed comprised what conspiracy theory clowns were trying to say was a death sentence over two years ago! What was it? 112 side effects listed publically as possible adverse reactions I think. There's plenty of threads on it right here. Testing was thorough. There's no good reason at all to think one will be crippled in years to come. That's a actually ludicrous if you know anything about how the vaccine works Four phases of trials were completed. What are you saying was actually limited? 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: Not to say the vaccines shouldn't have been made available, but that it isnt crazy to question them, and to even put off getting them, if one is young, and/or healthy. It's reckless and helps nobody to fear monger ignorance either. That accomplishes less than nothing as it sets a path backwards. If one doesn't know, either learn it or shut it I reckon. 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: Possibly. But if big families goes from (numbers just for arguement sake) 95% religious people, to 92% religious people, have you really proven any thing? Pointed out a slight trend doesnt speak to the greater population. I didn't set out to prove anything. You are the one talking about hypothetical changing social landscapes. I'm just chiming in. Considering current trends, big families aren't going out but religion is. It's as likely there won't be a tipping point to set religion back into the positive as opposed to the negative trend being set. Big families will continue if religion doesn't. That will set the trend into more leaving religion as current trends indicate. I think there would have to be some defining event, like that portrayed in three body problem to make religion attractive enough to revitalise numbers and set the trend back to positive. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted April 25 #1300 Share Posted April 25 5 hours ago, and-then said: You will NEVER convince the true believers. They will literally die believing their media-programming on that virus. You talking belief? What a joke!!!!! There's an entire world outside Alabama. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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