‘Out of Small Beginnings’ – the True History of the Pilgrim Fathers and Our Founding Myth

[el midgetron]

……….Our knowledge of the Pilgrims comes from two primary sources. The earliest account is from Edward Winslow, whose report on the founding of the Plymouth settlement was published in London in 1622, just two years after the Pilgrims arrived in the New World.

The more detailed and authoritative account comes from the Pilgrims’ second governor, William Bradford, whose poignant and eloquent history Of Plymouth Plantation, written between 1630 and 1651, tells the story of the community from their formation in England to their exile in Holland and their eventual founding of the Plymouth Colony.

Any fair reading of the primary source documentation will give you all the evidence you need to understand why we chose the Pilgrims’ arrival at Plymouth as the date of “our true founding” and as the basis of our founding myth.….…..

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/11/24/mansour-out-of-small-beginnings-the-true-history-of-the-pilgrim-fathers-and-our-founding-myth/

Edited November 24, 2022 by Saru
Trimmed for length - please avoid copying and pasting too much text.

[Trelane]

Ok, and??? What's the point of all of that?

[el midgetron]

55 minutes ago, Trelane said:

Ok, and??? What's the point of all of that?

Well, today is Thanksgiving…… Or is your grievance more specific?

[Tatetopa]

Pretty strange article I must say.  I did not know the Pilgrims were ever villains and nobody that studied history thought they were hippie types..  Does this fit with modern conservative victim theory?  But some people do tend to forget that they left England and temporarily settled in Holland before braving the Atlantic for a new territory.  The left their home country and struck off into the unknown to escape state operated religion in England and worship as they chose.

[Trelane]

5 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Well, today is Thanksgiving…… Or is your grievance more specific?

Grievance? Oh no, I simply asked a question my good man. Aside of the painfully obviousness of the information provided, I wasn't sure if there was something more you planned on adding to that. 

[Likely Guy]

6 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

The left their home country and struck off into the unknown to escape state operated religion in England and worship as they chose.

And didn't try to instill it on others. Admirable.

BTW: A branch of my family came to Plymouth in subsequent years.

[el midgetron]

Yeah, I’m not really familiar with the “hippy” narrative referenced. However, I've heard  the version where the pilgrims are villains more than a few times. Pilgrims and Thanksgiving are offensive to some. 
 

@Trelane I’m not sure if you read the post before or after Saru edited it for length, or if you read the article. I think the point of the article is clear and the premise of my post was clearer prior to the edit.

[Trelane]

30 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Yeah, I’m not really familiar with the “hippy” narrative referenced. However, I've heard  the version where the pilgrims are villains more than a few times. Pilgrims and Thanksgiving are offensive to some. 
 

@Trelane I’m not sure if you read the post before or after Saru edited it for length, or if you read the article. I think the point of the article is clear and the premise of my post was clearer prior to the edit.

Yes, finally finished that up. Boy, was that a bit of a rambling yarn. I understand the article author's point.

I'm asking what yours is to roll it out here, today. What is your 'so what' to this? what is your point?

[el midgetron]

No point beyond that of the authors. 
 

[Trelane]

20 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

No point beyond that of the authors. 
 

Interesting, you do that a lot around here. 

This being a discussion forum, it stands to reason you had something you wanted to discuss. Very well then.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Trelane

[+DieChecker]

Happy Thanksgiving!!

I had early settler ancestors in Rhone Island on my mom's side. Not sure the year, but I think early 1700s.

Dad came over from Wales to the US after WWII.

 

[Hankenhunter]

The Great Dying 1616-1619, “By God’s visitation, a wonderful plague”

https://historicipswich.org/2021/04/21/the-great-dying/#:~:text=Among the diseases introduced to,leptospirosis%2C yellow fever and pertussis.

 

[Hankenhunter]

The Devastating History Of Diseases That The Pilgrims Brought To America

https://allthatsinteresting.com/pilgrim-plagues

[Hankenhunter]

Just thought some context was in order.

[Raptor Witness]

It’s a beautiful tradition in any cultural context, regardless of any perfection.

I Thank God and give thanks that we take a day to do this.

[el midgetron]

1 hour ago, Trelane said:

Interesting, you do that a lot around here. 

This being a discussion forum, it stands to reason you had something you wanted to discuss. Very well then.

Well I do want to discuss it, that’s why I shared it….. if I had something to add originally beyond what the article stated I would have contributed it. I’m interested to hear other people’s views about it.

[Occupational Hubris]

2 hours ago, Likely Guy said:

And didn't try to instill it on others. Admirable.

 

Ironic that they wouldn't exend that courtesy to the native Wampanoag people

[Trelane]

4 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Well I do want to discuss it, that’s why I shared it….. if I had something to add originally beyond what the article stated I would have contributed it. I’m interested to hear other people’s views about it.

Since you're the OP, you first.

It still doesn't answer my question of why. Why was it needed to be rolled out here on these forums ...today. I understand it's Thanksgiving, but at least say something beyond being some passive poster.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Trelane

[el midgetron]

1 hour ago, Hankenhunter said:

Just thought some context was in order.

The article in the OP discussed the disease brought by the early Europeans. I know it’s a lengthy article but did you read it before adding context?

10 minutes ago, Occupational Hubris said:

Ironic that they wouldn't exend that courtesy to the native Wampanoag people

They did. They were allied with the Wampanoag against other Indians who were hostile to both the Wampanoag and the Pilgrims.

[Occupational Hubris]

Just now, el midgetron said:

 

They did. They were allied with the Wampanoag against other Indians who were hostile to both the Wampanoag and the Pilgrims.

And their immediate decendants would arrest them and have them charged with not attending church. Not a lot of religious freedom going on there. 

[el midgetron]

9 minutes ago, Trelane said:

Since you're the OP, you first.

It still doesn't answer my question of why. Why was it needed to be rolled out here on these forums ...today. I understand it's Thanksgiving, but at least say something beyond being some passive poster.

 

I already explain it. Some people believe the Pilgrims were villains. Just like the article addresses. Unless you have something to contribute beyond grilling me about the “point” which has been explained to you twice now on top of the article, then I’m done entertaining your non-discussion. 

[el midgetron]

2 minutes ago, Occupational Hubris said:

And their immediate decendants would arrest them and have them charged with not attending church. Not a lot of religious freedom going on there. 

So, you aren’t even talking about the people honored in the tradition of the original Thanksgiving? 
 

 

[Dejarma]

24 minutes ago, Trelane said:

Since you're the OP, you first.

It still doesn't answer my question of why. Why was it needed to be rolled out here on these forums ...today. I understand it's Thanksgiving, but at least say something beyond being some passive poster.

yep exactly

[Occupational Hubris]

4 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

So, you aren’t even talking about the people honored in the tradition of the original Thanksgiving? 
 

 

I'm talking about some of them, yes. And their children. And how they only cared about thier own religious freedom and their desire to remove everyone elses.

I don't give two ****s about thanksgiving 

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, Trelane said:

Interesting, you do that a lot around here. 

This being a discussion forum, it stands to reason you had something you wanted to discuss. Very well then.

This is certainly a different approach to the Thanksgiving Holiday I would never have imagined. It’s really a bit strange to approach the Holiday from a purely political point of view, in fact it tends to make what has been taught as a positive historical event into a negative historical event. The following quote from the article says it all in my opinion.

“”If you want to undo a nation, you start by falsifying its history until no one remembers anything but the “endless present.” Thus, every Thanksgiving it seems like fewer Americans know the true history of this national holiday commemorating our nation’s founding myth. Few even understand the concept of a founding myth.””

Its interesting they would use the comment IF YOU WANT TO UNDO A NATION and then referring to the excepted version of the holiday, NEXT TO CALL THE HOLIDAY A FOUNDING MYTH.

Then to use the following terms and I quote “”In recent years, the history of the Pilgrims has become the plaything of left-wing and right-wing revisionist””, I don’t know about anyone else but this political approach just takes all the fun out of the Holiday for me!

Well politics aside HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE no political motivation involved!

 

3 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Pretty strange article I must say.  I did not know the Pilgrims were ever villains and nobody that studied history thought they were hippie types..  Does this fit with modern conservative victim theory?  But some people do tend to forget that they left England and temporarily settled in Holland before braving the Atlantic for a new territory.  The left their home country and struck off into the unknown to escape state operated religion in England and worship as they chose.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Grim Reaper 6