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Emboldened Biden, Democrats push ban on so-called assault weapons


Grim Reaper 6

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21 hours ago, DieChecker said:

That's fair enough. I'm all for anyone who wishes to give up their own guns. I'm all for requiring checks before buying one. I am in favor of locking up guns and ammo, separately.

Again, I think out laissez faire attitude has created a climate for a lot of gun crime in the USA.  Other developed countries have nothing close to the US problem with gun violence.  I'd also agree with someone who pointed out that the genie is out of the bottle at this point.  That isn't the same as saying that the USA doesn't have a problem and we don't need to do something about it.

21 hours ago, DieChecker said:

I just think asking for zero accidents, and zero deaths, is not reasonable.

Of course not.  I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that is even possible.  It isn't possible even in countries with low gun ownership to get zeroes anymore.

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Its like China and their no Covid policy. They're locking up millions of people because a few dozen got sick.

Nah, likely over 2 million Chinese died of COVID in 2020 and there was a MASSIVE cover-up by the CCP.  The humorous problem is, that the CCP is behaving like everybody knows about the massive cover-up and all the deaths, because that is what their  zero covid policy is based on.  Of course nobody knows, and so it is seen as utterly draconian and unreasonable (and its enforcement to date has been heavy handed, classist, unscientific, and an excuse to persecute people by those in authority).  Typical Communist over-reaction.

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

41 toddler deaths is horrible, but at the same time out of 19 million, that's not a number that seems tremendously mathematically significant. 

Tons more little kids die from tons other things. We don't necessarily require we ban any of those things.

During our younger years, before the safe storage requirements were a thing, the problem of kids getting into the gun drawer was out of control.  It still isn't a good idea to have guns around children.  Kids are stupid.  They're like little drunkards.  Don't trust a drunkard with a gun.

22 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Some will point out that the number one killer of children in the US is firearms. This is because it includes "Kids" up to age 19 in the numbers. 95% of "child" firearm deaths are age 16 to 19. With almost half being black males. That's not a gun problem. That's a young black male culture problem.

On the other hand, there's still 5% of white, native american and hispanic kids dying to guns as well.  Those numbers aren't inconsiderable, even if they aren't as dramatic as the 15% of black kids who are dying from gun violence.  5% is still a lot, and the homicide rate is roughly double the suicide rate.  Letting 45,000 American kids be killed by guns per year seems excessive to me. 

Obviously I'd like to keep my guns and cut that number dramatically, so how do we do it DieChecker?  I've put up ideas, and I think they'd work.

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2 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Again, I think out laissez faire attitude has created a climate for a lot of gun crime in the USA.  Other developed countries have nothing close to the US problem with gun violence.  I'd also agree with someone who pointed out that the genie is out of the bottle at this point.  That isn't the same as saying that the USA doesn't have a problem and we don't need to do something about it.

Of course not.  I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that is even possible.  It isn't possible even in countries with low gun ownership to get zeroes anymore.

Nah, likely over 2 million Chinese died of COVID in 2020 and there was a MASSIVE cover-up by the CCP.  The humorous problem is, that the CCP is behaving like everybody knows about the massive cover-up and all the deaths, because that is what their  zero covid policy is based on.  Of course nobody knows, and so it is seen as utterly draconian and unreasonable (and its enforcement to date has been heavy handed, classist, unscientific, and an excuse to persecute people by those in authority).  Typical Communist over-reaction.

During our younger years, before the safe storage requirements were a thing, the problem of kids getting into the gun drawer was out of control.  It still isn't a good idea to have guns around children.  Kids are stupid.  They're like little drunkards.  Don't trust a drunkard with a gun.

On the other hand, there's still 5% of white, native american and hispanic kids dying to guns as well.  Those numbers aren't inconsiderable, even if they aren't as dramatic as the 15% of black kids who are dying from gun violence.  5% is still a lot, and the homicide rate is roughly double the suicide rate.  Letting 45,000 American kids be killed by guns per year seems excessive to me. 

Obviously I'd like to keep my guns and cut that number dramatically, so how do we do it DieChecker?  I've put up ideas, and I think they'd work.

Good post. 

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3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

The discussion in question was about children shooting themselves accidentally. 

Are you bring guilty of not reading context like you asked me not to do? :w00t:

 

On 12/4/2022 at 2:39 PM, Alchopwn said:

The point is, our US school shooting problem and just gun culture in general needs to have some brakes applied. 

On 12/4/2022 at 3:56 PM, DieChecker said:

That's fair enough. I'm all for anyone who wishes to give up their own guns. I'm all for requiring checks before buying one. I am in favor of locking up guns and ammo, separately.

 

What's that about then?

 

3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Let's try to figure how many children go to school each day across the US without getting shot.... 

There's about 50 million school age children in the US. With 8 per day getting shot, that is 99.99995% of kids don't get shot at school daily. 

I'm going to post it the other way.

In 2022, we continue this heartbreaking, but important work. More information about this tracker and our methodology is below.

There have been 46 school shootings this year that resulted in injuries or deaths, the most in a single year since Education Week began tracking such incidents in 2018. There have been 139 such shootings since 2018. Prior to 2022, the highest number of school shootings with injuries or deaths was last year when there were 35. There were 10 in 2020, and 24 each in 2019 and 2018.

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-shootings-this-year-how-many-and-where/2022/01

 

Yes, it's not a majority.

Tell that to any parent who lost one of those children though. It's easy to quote statistics when your kid isn't one of them.

It's an utter disgrace. If children can get killed at school you have failed. It is as simple as that. Burying deaths in statistics doesn't change that fact.

It doesn't have to happen. It happens because gun culture. Deaths that could be prevented by abandoning a barbaric tradition that leaves America at the rear end of the civilized world. 

I honestly struggle how you and others maintain that you are Christians when you have such low regard for children. When guns are more important than the lives of school kids, IMHO you fail faith. Remember I used to follow Christianity too, and I do remember this much 

Children are a gift from the Lord; they are a reward from him.

It's also a kick in the teeth to your proposed creator. If there a hell, don't write of a deck chair next to ATs over to this.

3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

And I'd seriously disagree that NONE of those shootings were gang or cartel based. I'd rather suggest that MOST of them are likely gang based. The gangs are INSIDE the schools. The students are gang members. The gangs often, especially in the "dangerous" "red" southern/southwest states, work for/with the cartels. 

Sandy hook? Columbine? Virginia Tech? Ulvade? 

Name a gang related school massacre. 

3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Might be deflecting, but the facts are true.

The facts are portrayed as minimal and unimportant. That's where you let yourself down. 

Facts are you have had a shooting almost every year since 1966. It's not a new problem. It's not unidentified. It's just getting worse.

More frequent and deadlier
There have been shootings at U.S. schools almost every year since 1966, but in 2021 there were a record 250 shooting incidents – including any occurrence of a firearm being discharged, be it related to suicides, accidental shootings, gang-related violence or incidents at after-hours school events.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/school-shootings-are-already-at-a-record-in-2022-with-months-still-to-go-192494

 

American gun laws are a complete and utter failure. And gun culture is a disgrace.

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22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

What's that about then?

It's about the discussion moving from child accidental shooting to the bigger picture... because you stepped in.

Not condemning, just pointing out if I'd posted into your discussion, you might have called me out for going outside the context of the two way disussion.

Quote

I'm going to post it the other way.

In 2022, we continue this heartbreaking, but important work. More information about this tracker and our methodology is below.

There have been 46 school shootings this year that resulted in injuries or deaths, the most in a single year since Education Week began tracking such incidents in 2018. There have been 139 such shootings since 2018. Prior to 2022, the highest number of school shootings with injuries or deaths was last year when there were 35. There were 10 in 2020, and 24 each in 2019 and 2018.

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-shootings-this-year-how-many-and-where/2022/01

Sounds like there's some issue within the school system. I'd want to see where all of these happened to understand the context.

Following the links, I find a number of statistics behind the article, but poverty level, and ethnicity, aren't included. 

Still looks to me like over 50% of the shootings are gang based.

Quote

Tell that to any parent who lost one of those children though. It's easy to quote statistics when your kid isn't one of them.

That's true. Its also the only way to look at things impartially. Rather then overly colored by emotion.

I celebrate those parents who spearhead better laws. It's partially how things slowly move forward. 

Quote

It's an utter disgrace. If children can get killed at school you have failed. It is as simple as that. Burying deaths in statistics doesn't change that fact.

"Fact"? I think you mean "Opinion".

Quote

I honestly struggle how you and others maintain that you are Christians when you have such low regard for children. When guns are more important than the lives of school kids, IMHO you fail faith. Remember I used to follow Christianity too, and I do remember this much 

Children are a gift from the Lord; they are a reward from him.

It's also a kick in the teeth to your proposed creator. If there a hell, don't write of a deck chair next to ATs over to this.

Ever hear of "Not my brother's keeper"?

What about Job? Everything taken. But his faith endured.

Children are a gift, but that doesnt mean they can't be taken away.

If you're right about my Creater, then He's a blood thirsty SOB. Thus doesn't care people killing each other, till each needs to be judged.

If I'm right about my Creater, then it's all part of a bigger, well planned, chessgame. Thus God cares and things happen for a reason.

Either way, you're wrong that God should act.

Quote

Sandy hook? Columbine? Virginia Tech? Ulvade? 

Name a gang related school massacre. 

You said 8 per day, right? Name the massacres for each of those 3000 per year. Fact is most school shootings are gang related, just doesn't make the news because POC killing each other doesn't meet the media Narrative.

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20 hours ago, DieChecker said:

It's about the discussion moving from child accidental shooting to the bigger picture... because you stepped in.

I can't move with the discussion? 

20 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Not condemning, just pointing out if I'd posted into your discussion, you might have called me out for going outside the context of the two way disussion.

No, I've called you out when you have taken an out of context smart azz dig as if it's part of a discussion when it's not. It's just a particular poster acting childish. Again. I remained within the discussion. 

20 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Sounds like there's some issue within the school system. I'd want to see where all of these happened to understand the context.

Following the links, I find a number of statistics behind the article, but poverty level, and ethnicity, aren't included. 

Guns aren't part of the school system. 

Poor people die just as quickly as rich people when shot. 

Location is offered, surely that offers you some information to draw conclusions?

From the link. 

About the Shootings
Click on the column names to sort the data.

20 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Still looks to me like over 50% of the shootings are gang based.

I see no evidence of that at all. That some occur in a parking lot isn't indicative of gang violence. 

20 hours ago, DieChecker said:

That's true. Its also the only way to look at things impartially. Rather then overly colored by emotion.

I think it's an easy way of reducing responsibility where it's more important. a simple but effective way to remove oneself from a problem they are part of. 

20 hours ago, DieChecker said:

I celebrate those parents who spearhead better laws. It's partially how things slowly move forward. 

Not supporting them though? 

It's well and good that they try to enact better laws, but to support those attempts to better society isn't worthwhile?

20 hours ago, DieChecker said:

"Fact"? I think you mean "Opinion".

Nope I mean fact. 

Schools are safe zones. If that fails, your country has failed. Placing those deaths next to a national count is obscuring the urgency of that particular aspect. Those lives are simply more important.

20 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Ever hear of "Not my brother's keeper"?

Words of a murderer aren't they? 

20 hours ago, DieChecker said:

What about Job? Everything taken. But his faith endured.

I think more people see that parable these days as god being a complete and utter dick. It's like torturing a child to win a bet. Job was used. 

20 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Children are a gift, but that doesnt mean they can't be taken away.

And yet.....

So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.

20 hours ago, DieChecker said:

If you're right about my Creater, then He's a blood thirsty SOB. Thus doesn't care people killing each other, till each needs to be judged.

If I'm right about my Creater, then it's all part of a bigger, well planned, chessgame. Thus God cares and things happen for a reason.

He is a blood thirsty SOB. 

His son had to make good on that didn't he? So the story goes.

20 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Either way, you're wrong that God should act.

I didn't say god should act.

I said I find gun culture in direct conflict with Christian values. It's touting love in one instance and then death in another.

20 hours ago, DieChecker said:

You said 8 per day, right? Name the massacres for each of those 3000 per year. Fact is most school shootings are gang related, just doesn't make the news because POC killing each other doesn't meet the media Narrative.

They are named at the link. I don't see what taking up several pages of copy and paste would accomplish that can't be by following the link? 

I didn't ask you for such details, I just asked you to point at school mass shootings done by gang members. 

Which being me to a new point, WTF are gangs doing hanging around schools? I know America has a police force. Seems like your placing blame without actual information, and quite frankly it raises a lot more questions than it answers. And none of them indicate better gun regulations aren't sorely needed. 

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This is a bit dated, but the problem remains in 2022 as in 1993...

https://nces.ed.gov/pubs/web/95740.asp

Quote


In 1989, 15 percent of students (approximately 3,301,000) reported "street" gangs in their school. 1 By 1993, in a different survey, 35 percent of students said "fighting" gangs were present in their schools. 2 Although the data from these two surveys can not be compared directly due to the different wording of the gangs question, these data may signal an increase in the number of students exposed to gangs.

Many people assume that gangs are confined to urban areas and schools with large concentrations of minority students. The 1989 survey, which asked students whether there were street gangs at their school, found that while the proportion of students reporting gangs was higher in urban areas (27%) than in suburban (15%) or rural areas (8%), the number of students in both suburban areas and urban areas who reported attending schools with gangs was roughly equivalent at 1.4 million each. 3 (See figure 1.) In short, gangs are not just an urban-school problem.

Gangs are everywhere in US schools. 

I'll look for something more current. This is just the first good example I came across.

EFIT: Same kind of info, but only a few years old...

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/a08/gangs-at-school

Quote

There were some measurable differences in student reports of gang presence by student and school characteristics in 2019. For instance, higher percentages of Black (15 percent) and Hispanic (12 percent) students than of White (6 percent) and Asian (4 percent) students reported the presence of gangs at their school. Additionally, the percentages of students in 9th through 12th grade who reported a gang presence at their school (ranging from 10 to 12 percent) were higher than the percentages for students in 6th through 8th grade (ranging from 5 to 6 percent). In 2019, the percentage of students ages 12–18 who reported a gang presence at their school during the school year was higher for those enrolled in schools in cities (13 percent) than for those enrolled in schools in towns (9 percent), suburban areas (8 percent), and rural areas (6 percent).

So, we're talking millions of gang members potentially. Just a very few, carrying a gun, and having emotional issues... And you have a high child murder rate.

People say remove the guns. But the ultimate reason then is still there.

Remove the gangs, or the culture leading to gangs, and the guns are superfluous. 

Edited by DieChecker
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On 12/7/2022 at 1:27 PM, DieChecker said:

This is a bit dated, but the problem remains in 2022 as in 1993...

https://nces.ed.gov/pubs/web/95740.asp

Gangs are everywhere in US schools. 

I'll look for something more current. This is just the first good example I came across.

EFIT: Same kind of info, but only a few years old...

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/a08/gangs-at-school

Except that your second and more current link says the situation is in decline.

In general, the percentages of students ages 12–18 who reported a gang presence at their school were lower in 2019 than in 2009. Over this period, the total percentage of students ages 12–18 who reported that gangs were present at their school decreased from 20 to 9 percent. Similarly, the percentages of students who reported a gang presence at their school decreased over the decade for both male (from 21 to 10 percent) and female (from 20 to 8 percent) students, as well as for White (from 14 to 6 percent), Black (from 31 to 15 percent), Hispanic (from 33 to 12 percent), and Asian (from 17 to 4 percent) students. In addition, the percentages of students age 12–18 who reported a gang presence at their school were lower in 2019 than in 2009 for students at all grade levels.

 

And it's referring to "gangs". Are we talking school organised gangs? Biker gangs? Theft or drug rings? Are they shooting kids? Are they responsible for any mass shootings? What exactly are the type of gangs you are referring to, and how much actual gun violence can be attributed to them? 

There doesn't seem to be specifics at the links, just that "gangs" exist in schools. 

On 12/7/2022 at 1:27 PM, DieChecker said:

So, we're talking millions of gang members potentially. Just a very few, carrying a gun, and having emotional issues... And you have a high child murder rate.

Yet it's young white men making the news. I'm not seeing threads or need stories about gangs shooting up little kids. In fact kids at elementary school aren't lucrative targets either. Gangs steal. When they kill there's usually some appropriate circumstances, bad drug deals or debt, that's not a thing in elementary schools. It's not a lucrative market for high school either. Why would gangs shake down people who a reliant on others? 

I think you're using very broad terms and different situations.

On 12/7/2022 at 1:27 PM, DieChecker said:

People say remove the guns. But the ultimate reason then is still there.

Not the means 

The "reason" as you put it is impotent. Disarmed. You can't commit a mass shooting without a gun.

On 12/7/2022 at 1:27 PM, DieChecker said:

Remove the gangs, or the culture leading to gangs, and the guns are superfluous. 

Not in any conceivable way. 

Remove the guns and they haven't got an easy advantage over others. Guns accelerate and exacerbate death. They aren't a great equalizer. They are an unfair advantage. Removing guns is basically neutering gangs.  

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Man, you are just contrary, or looking for a good discussion. :w00t:

22 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Except that your second and more current link says the situation is in decline.

In general, the percentages of students ages 12–18 who reported a gang presence at their school were lower in 2019 than in 2009. Over this period, the total percentage of students ages 12–18 who reported that gangs were present at their school decreased from 20 to 9 percent. Similarly, the percentages of students who reported a gang presence at their school decreased over the decade for both male (from 21 to 10 percent) and female (from 20 to 8 percent) students, as well as for White (from 14 to 6 percent), Black (from 31 to 15 percent), Hispanic (from 33 to 12 percent), and Asian (from 17 to 4 percent) students. In addition, the percentages of students age 12–18 who reported a gang presence at their school were lower in 2019 than in 2009 for students at all grade levels.

Yeah, I was half hoping you'd not look into it enough to notice that. 

Regardless, it still showed a relatively high prevalence of gangs in schools. Which is what I was asked to demonstrate.

Quote

And it's referring to "gangs". Are we talking school organised gangs? Biker gangs? Theft or drug rings? Are they shooting kids? Are they responsible for any mass shootings? What exactly are the type of gangs you are referring to, and how much actual gun violence can be attributed to them? 

There doesn't seem to be specifics at the links, just that "gangs" exist in schools. 

Hard to say, as with most things regarding minors, we generally don't know specifics. Are many school shootings gang related? Very high probability. At least IMHO.

Generally "gangs" doesn't refer to what might be considered a club. Generally a "gang" is defined as being prone to poverty, violence and crime.  There's not many gangs that go around mowing yards and delivering groceries for free. 

Gangs are often a urban, poverty,  minority issue, and as such are not promoted by liberal news sources. Conservative news sources similarly don't want to illuminate possible gun misuse, and so also often ignore gang crimes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_the_United_States

Quote

Gangs in the United States include several types of groups, including national street gangs, local street gangs, prison gangs, motorcycle clubs, and ethnic and organized crime gangs.[3] Approximately 1.4 million people were part of gangs as of 2011, and more than 33,000 gangs were active in the United States.[4]

Many American gangs began, and still exist, in urban areas. In many cases, national street gangs originated in major cities such as New York City and Chicago[5] but they later grew in other American cities like Albuquerque[6] and Washington, D.C.[7]

Violence in schools...

https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/what-do-data-reveal-about-violence-schools

Quote

There are differences between single-victim homicide trends and multiple-victim homicide trends. From 1994 to 2016, there were approximately 423 school-associated homicide incidents, including 393 single-victim incidents and about 30 multiple-victim incidents.[16] According to SAVD-SS data, approximately 90% of school-related youth homicide incidents involve a single victim, which is contrary to the perception that most school-related youth homicides occur in the context of a mass shooting. Among homicides with known motives, gang-related activity (58.2%) and interpersonal disputes (44%) were the most common motives for single-victim, school-related homicides, suggesting that these homicides may reflect broader communitywide causes of violence.[17] The proportion of single-victim, school-related homicides hovers around or below 2% of all youth homicides occurring from 1994 to 2016.

60% are gang related. Including the almost 10% of incidents that are multi-victim.

Quote

Yet it's young white men making the news. I'm not seeing threads or need stories about gangs shooting up little kids. In fact kids at elementary school aren't lucrative targets either. Gangs steal. When they kill there's usually some appropriate circumstances, bad drug deals or debt, that's not a thing in elementary schools. It's not a lucrative market for high school either. Why would gangs shake down people who a reliant on others? 

I think you're using very broad terms and different situations.

Because young white men is what fits the liberal narrative. When a mass shooter is white, we hear, "Evil, White, Male mass shooter killed...", and when the shooter is black, as with the Walmsrt shooter recently, race isn't brought up. I don't remember seeing, "Black man shoots up Walmart". Because... Thats not the liberal narrative message. 

I think you're trying to purposefully create an excuse why this isn't true. You're looking into the field and pointing at the one zebra in a herd of black horses. 

First of all, almost zero kids are shot in an elementary school by another kid. Its crazed random adults, or a crazed parent.

So most kid shootungs are going to be in a high school. Most are going to be gang related. Gang related shootings are going to be mostly about pride and anger, and not be limited, or curtailed by economic realities, or logic.

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Not the means 

The "reason" as you put it is impotent. Disarmed. You can't commit a mass shooting without a gun.

I'd agree, take away the gun and you've reduced the deadliness. But the violence will still be there, and kids will still be hurt. I get it though, you're after the guns, not fixing the problem. You don't really care about the children, but only that they don't get shot.

Quote

Not in any conceivable way. 

Remove the guns and they haven't got an easy advantage over others. Guns accelerate and exacerbate death. They aren't a great equalizer. They are an unfair advantage. Removing guns is basically neutering gangs.  

Except gangs are generally more on the criminal end then on the civic duty end of things. So removing guns will only limit them somewhat, whole limiting response greatly. 

I feel identifying the kids with issues,  and removing them to get them help,  would be a much better action then simply setting up metal detectors and doing backpack searches. 

Play defense, sure, but be proactive on top of that. Pure defense will always lose.

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Kind of comical the NY Times posted a pic of shotgun shells with their AR-15 rant.  

 

The AR-15 has become a talisman for some right-wing politicians and voters. “That’s a particularly disturbing trend at a time when violent political rhetoric and actual political violence in the United States are rising,” writes the editorial board.
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1 hour ago, el midgetron said:

 

 

Maybe we need a law where everyone wears orange? :whistle:

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On 12/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, DieChecker said:

Man, you are just contrary, or looking for a good discussion. :w00t:

It's your fault for being the only right wing gun proponent capable of stringing more than two sentences together. 

On 12/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, DieChecker said:

Yeah, I was half hoping you'd not look into it enough to notice that. 

:lol:

On 12/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, DieChecker said:

Regardless, it still showed a relatively high prevalence of gangs in schools. Which is what I was asked to demonstrate.

No, I didn't ask you to demonstrate a prevalence of gangs, I asked you to point at a school mass shooting perpetrated by a gang. 

There has been too many school shootings but they are by students with legally bought weapons. 

On 12/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, DieChecker said:

Hard to say, as with most things regarding minors, we generally don't know specifics. Are many school shootings gang related? Very high probability. At least IMHO.

That just doesn't make sense though. 

It's not what we see reported. It's not a free environment to act at will, and it's not a place where guns are freely carried. When they are found at schools it is a big deal. Police get involved, media, all sorts of reporting. 

On 12/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, DieChecker said:

Generally "gangs" doesn't refer to what might be considered a club. Generally a "gang" is defined as being prone to poverty, violence and crime.  There's not many gangs that go around mowing yards and delivering groceries for free. 

Gangs are often a urban, poverty,  minority issue, and as such are not promoted by liberal news sources. Conservative news sources similarly don't want to illuminate possible gun misuse, and so also often ignore gang crimes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_the_United_States

I'm not understanding the point here.

That's not in the link in your post. It clearly illustrates what would be considered a "club" environment. 

On 12/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, DieChecker said:

Gangs in the United States include several types of groups, including national street gangs, local street gangs, prison gangs, motorcycle clubs, and ethnic and organized crime gangs.[

How exactly does the above relate to culture as opposed to organisations? That's not urban poverty issues, that's thugs banding. 

It's not unusual here for motorcycle gangs to do charity runs. 

On 12/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, DieChecker said:

Violence in schools...

https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/what-do-data-reveal-about-violence-schools

60% are gang related. Including the almost 10% of incidents that are multi-victim.

Gang related is a broad term.

I can't see how that indicates that gangs target schools at all. Its indicating personal disputes. School would be an easy place to find someone with a gang debt. 

From your link:

On 12/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, DieChecker said:

Among homicides with known motives, gang-related activity (58.2%) and interpersonal disputes (44%) were the most common motives for single-victim, school-related homicides, suggesting that these homicides may reflect broader communitywide causes of violence.

These are one on one disputes.

And they would be pretty much eliminated with regulations.

On 12/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, DieChecker said:

 

On 12/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, DieChecker said:

Because young white men is what fits the liberal narrative. When a mass shooter is white, we hear, "Evil, White, Male mass shooter killed...", and when the shooter is black, as with the Walmsrt shooter recently, race isn't brought up. I don't remember seeing, "Black man shoots up Walmart". Because... Thats not the liberal narrative message. 

I don't see those headlines. I see ex student, current student mostly. Look at Columbine or Sandy hook headlines. The general descriptor is "teen shooter". Which media reported either of those tragedies as a young white male headline? 

On 12/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, DieChecker said:

I think you're trying to purposefully create an excuse why this isn't true. You're looking into the field and pointing at the one zebra in a herd of black horses. 

I'm looking at a gem in a coalfield. Small children should be a higher priority. I think burying the importance that these victims are children as an excuse to look the other way, while buying a gun. A convenient way to ignore the very evil consequences of 2A. 

On 12/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, DieChecker said:

First of all, almost zero kids are shot in an elementary school by another kid. Its crazed random adults, or a crazed parent.

Look at the worst cases, Ulvade by an ex student. Sandy hook by a 20 year old. 

On 12/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, DieChecker said:

So most kid shootungs are going to be in a high school. Most are going to be gang related. Gang related shootings are going to be mostly about pride and anger, and not be limited, or curtailed by economic realities, or logic.

And yet there's only suspicion of that whilst you are outright ignoring actual mass shootings that are now history and happen on a regular basis.

You have a genuine serous problem staring you in the face, but your trying to look past it to see what else you can focus on.

On 12/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, DieChecker said:

I'd agree, take away the gun and you've reduced the deadliness. But the violence will still be there, and kids will still be hurt. I get it though, you're after the guns, not fixing the problem. You don't really care about the children, but only that they don't get shot.

I'm like any normal person, horrified at a deadly problem which is overlooked for personal want. That's all 2A really is in this day and age. 

Reducing deadliness is the key issue. That's the goal. 

Without guns, how many will get hurt? How would that not result in red flags from behaviour that would not only stop shootings but get real help for a potential shooter? What type of violence are you anticipating or predicting there? 

On 12/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, DieChecker said:

Except gangs are generally more on the criminal end then on the civic duty end of things. So removing guns will only limit them somewhat, whole limiting response greatly. 

Removing guns limits their ability to kill. That's the goal here. Less dead people at the hands of criminals who use a gun as an advantage to commit crime. 

How is limiting criminals not an extremely important aspect of society? Why would you prefer to shoot it out yourself? 

On 12/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, DieChecker said:

I feel identifying the kids with issues,  and removing them to get them help,  would be a much better action then simply setting up metal detectors and doing backpack searches. 

Play defense, sure, but be proactive on top of that. Pure defense will always lose.

Regulations will achieve both. You won't need to search for weapons people don't have. And without the means to shoot people up, there's a much better chance that warning signs will be picked up before large scale tragedy.

I don't see why these two should be mutually exclusive either. 

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1 hour ago, el midgetron said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apart from the fact that Ted Nugent is a bonafide psycho whackjob.....

That's BS anyways. 

In Murray County, Georgia 10 bucks were shot by one hunter. 

That's more than three including the shooter. 

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25 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Maybe we need a law where everyone wears orange? :whistle:

You need a law for Ted Nugent.

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9 hours ago, el midgetron said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

He's right.  Only deer were killed.   I don't hunt but I was tempted to shoot a deer in my yard. It seems like every day I see 5-8 of them in the yard.  There is a meat processing place a few miles away that I would bring it to.   I've seen some Facebook posts where they are full, so that made my choice for me.

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