Failed expectations of Revelations

[Piney]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Possibly. It might have to break from the shackels of organized religion. As the idea of it seems to revolve around a personal relationship with god based on faith and common sense / moral principals. You can make pretty good personal stride with just 'have faith/trust in god' and 'do unto others'. Of course in my personal view prayer + actions always lead to better results. As the prayer can get a person head / heart in the right place, so long as it is followed up by whatever actions (no matter how small). 

I do think revelations is what causes most of us to see Christianity as a death cult. I could be wrong though. 

Jesus Ben Ananias, one of the closest candidates for the historical Jesus was nothing more than a doomsday prophet. 

[eight bits]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

Jesus Ben Ananias, one of the closest candidates for the historical Jesus was nothing more than a doomsday prophet. 

And in some ways, his "Saint Paul" was Josephus, who also believed that Jerusalem had been doomed to the destruction it suffered in 70 CE. But where that Jesus was a "street preacher" who stayed on a simple message simply expressed, Josephus could, as Paul would do for his Jesus, dress up the message with literary flair and deep mastery of the Jewish heritage. But for all its sophistication, Josephus's message is the same as Ben Ananias's: the temple and city have been defiled, God is unhappy about that, God will cleanse the corruption with fire. The Roman Empire is God's tool.

Josephus had the advantage of writing after the fact, so all he had to do was to interpret actual happenings in light of his religious beliefs. That is, God intervenes in history and likes to tease his devotees with signs and omens before he screws them over. Josephus appears sincerely to believe that his Jesus was truly a prophet of God; he places Jesus's story as the climax of a series of gloom and doom signs and wonders starting with a comet tearing across the heavens.

And he we are 1900-and-change years later, and the JW's interpret actual happenings in light of their belief that God intervenes in history and likes to tease his devotees with signs and omens before he screws them over. They, too, have their street preachers with a simple message simply expressed.

There is something durable in human psychology that makes this sort of thing attractive and sticky like a tar baby. If so, then Christianity has a bright future, IMO. It doesn't matter what they decide to do with Revelation. No doubt, deep in the recesses of even the most sophisticated believer's mind, there's a neural loop that's scared of verse 22:18-19:

Quote

I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book.  If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life.

Unless you're JW, in which case, you add and take away from the words of the book with gusto. Well, that's one way to confront your unconscious fears.

By and large, though, I suspect future mainstream Christians will do the same as past and current ones: just leave Revelation where it is and don't pay it too much attention.

[XenoFish]

2 hours ago, Piney said:

Jesus Ben Ananias, one of the closest candidates for the historical Jesus was nothing more than a doomsday prophet. 

I can't argue with anyone regarding that. I was just trying to address Cormac's question. 

[+Desertrat56]

On 12/2/2022 at 6:47 PM, Guyver said:

Christians build doctrines from the Bible by finding verses from different books that say the same thing or something similar.  That’s what I was  referring to.  

OK.  Thanks.

[+Sherapy]

9 hours ago, eight bits said:

And in some ways, his "Saint Paul" was Josephus, who also believed that Jerusalem had been doomed to the destruction it suffered in 70 CE. But where that Jesus was a "street preacher" who stayed on a simple message simply expressed, Josephus could, as Paul would do for his Jesus, dress up the message with literary flair and deep mastery of the Jewish heritage. But for all its sophistication, Josephus's message is the same as Ben Ananias's: the temple and city have been defiled, God is unhappy about that, God will cleanse the corruption with fire. The Roman Empire is God's tool.

Josephus had the advantage of writing after the fact, so all he had to do was to interpret actual happenings in light of his religious beliefs. That is, God intervenes in history and likes to tease his devotees with signs and omens before he screws them over. Josephus appears sincerely to believe that his Jesus was truly a prophet of God; he places Jesus's story as the climax of a series of gloom and doom signs and wonders starting with a comet tearing across the heavens.

And he we are 1900-and-change years later, and the JW's interpret actual happenings in light of their belief that God intervenes in history and likes to tease his devotees with signs and omens before he screws them over. They, too, have their street preachers with a simple message simply expressed.

There is something durable in human psychology that makes this sort of thing attractive and sticky like a tar baby. If so, then Christianity has a bright future, IMO. It doesn't matter what they decide to do with Revelation. No doubt, deep in the recesses of even the most sophisticated believer's mind, there's a neural loop that's scared of verse 22:18-19:

Unless you're JW, in which case, you add and take away from the words of the book with gusto. Well, that's one way to confront your unconscious fears.

By and large, though, I suspect future mainstream Christians will do the same as past and current ones: just leave Revelation where it is and don't pay it too much attention.

Excellent add to, glad you are back posting, you certainly make religion interesting. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Sherapy

[Alchopwn]

20 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Faith is a beautiful thing, especially religious faith. People who possess it cherish it in their hearts and without a word display it in the assurance radiating from their demeanor, as do true loves who project the confirmation of their conclusion that the other loves them. They have no need to broadcast it to the world, no desire for affirmation, they do not seek others to echo what they feel they know in their hearts. So, people who constantly argue their Faith, have little faith in it. They try to make others see the light, so they don't feel like fools for believing in lies being told them by a false religion or a fickle lover. Irresolute, they wear such faith they possess like a garment, to cast off whenever misfortune or inclement storms of the soul prove it inadequate. Such people should neither be encouraged nor disparaged in their "holy" crusade, rather pitied, instead.

I see faith as an entirely negative thing Hammerclaw.   It is true that there are humble souls who carry their faith better than others, but at the end of the day it remains shorthand for credulity imo.  It is always a game for suckers.

20 hours ago, XenoFish said:

 I do think revelations is what causes most of us to see Christianity as a death cult. I could be wrong though. 

You don't think the adoration of the zombie of a Jewish hippie might have something to do with that image Xeno?

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Alchopwn said:

I see faith as an entirely negative thing Hammerclaw.   It is true that there are humble souls who carry their faith better than others, but at the end of the day it remains shorthand for credulity imo.  It is always a game for suckers.

You don't think the adoration of the zombie of a Jewish hippie might have something to do with that image Xeno?

That's right. Christians are Deadheads and proud of it. I saw Jerry in my toast this morning.

[Alchopwn]

53 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

That's right. Christians are Deadheads and proud of it. I saw Jerry in my toast this morning.

God is in all things, from the highest to the lowest.  Do not disdain even the meanest and meagerest of God's creations for it is all holy:

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Alchopwn said:

God is in all things, from the highest to the lowest.  Do not disdain even the meanest and meagerest of God's creations for it is all holy:

Pareidolia. Turn it upside down and it's Trump's face.

[newbloodmoon]

Breaking news: Derek “The Ferret” Goodman, a transient that lives in the bushes of Edens way park and self identifies as “God” has the following message.

”Leave me out of your self deluded nonsense you insipid monkey clowns!”

Derek then let out a half bealch half ralph and then giggled at his creation before stumbling back in to the bushes.

Well there we have it folks, directly out of the mouth of G?d.

[XenoFish]

3 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

You don't think the adoration of the zombie of a Jewish hippie might have something to do with that image Xeno?

Depends. You can see it as zombie Jesus or you can see it as a metaphorical. The death of the old-self and rebirth into a new-self.

[Alchopwn]

33 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Depends. You can see it as zombie Jesus or you can see it as a metaphorical. The death of the old-self and rebirth into a new-self.

Sounds a bit like new years resolutions to me 

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Alchopwn said:

Sounds a bit like new years resolutions to me 

Amusing as the migration of consciousness, depending on one's karma, to a higher being, or to a p*** ant.

[+Desertrat56]

On 12/4/2022 at 12:16 AM, XenoFish said:

I do think revelations is what causes most of us to see Christianity as a death cult. I could be wrong though. 

Maybe revelations is used a lot but it isn't the reason most see christianity as a death cult, the over emphasis of the devil, satan and demons being more prevailant than praise of their deity are what causes me to consider it a death cult.   I think there is more smiting from god references than just revelations in that book.

[Piney]

7 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Maybe revelations is used a lot but it isn't the reason most see christianity as a death cult, the over emphasis of the devil, satan and demons being more prevailant than praise of their deity are what causes me to consider it a death cult.   I think there is more smiting from god references than just revelations in that book.

El Shaddai and Yahweh were both storm, war and fire gods before they were merged.

[cormac mac airt]

40 minutes ago, Piney said:

El Shaddai and Yahweh were both storm, war and fire gods before they were merged.

El was a Creator deity, Yahweh never was until their merging. 
 

cormac

[Will Due]

On 12/3/2022 at 5:21 PM, trevor borocz johnson said:

what do you think the future holds after the next one hundred years of revelations closing the old book and the enlightenment age begins?

 

I don't think we have to wait for the next one hundred years of revelations to see what the future holds.

 

 

[Keiw1]

On 12/3/2022 at 5:00 PM, jmccr8 said:

Hi Keiw

You aren’t saying anything worthwhile yet try putting an effort in. Fire coming down from heaven doesn’t describe missiles as they are fired from ground level and don’t leave the atmosphere then return.

Sanctions are not the mark of the beast. Think about it only Russia has sanctions against it and the rest of the world can buy what they want. The mark of the beast is supposed to affect everyone’s ability to buy anything like gas, food, life’s necessities.

Plenty of countries have sanctions and have had. The bible describes 3 heavens-1) our atmosphere-2) outer space-3) Gods dwelling place.

The bible doesnt say what you said about buying gas and the such.

[Keiw1]

On 12/3/2022 at 5:00 PM, cormac mac airt said:

God hasn’t judged anybody, He didn’t write the Bible, men did. 
 

cormac

I guess it must be you turning me in for preaching. so dont bother anymore, i am done with you. 

[Keiw1]

On 12/3/2022 at 5:03 PM, XenoFish said:

You preach. That's basically all you've done.

Oh is it you getting me banned-Why? fear

[Keiw1]

On 12/3/2022 at 5:07 PM, jmccr8 said:

Hi Keiw

Mostly what you are being asked is to show specific people and events that support your claim that we are living in the end times. Usually all you do is give bible quotes which is not an answer but is preaching and avoidance 

Really there isnt much sense being in this sight. Its nothing but darkness.

[+Hammerclaw]

On 12/4/2022 at 5:38 AM, eight bits said:

By and large, though, I suspect future mainstream Christians will do the same as past and current ones: just leave Revelation where it is and don't pay it too much attention.

I agree, too many forgotten metaphors, allusions and allegory to make sense of.  Revelations is as esoteric and inscrutable as the movie and ending of 2001 A Space Odyssey. It takes you on a roller coaster ride down a road to nowhere.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Hammerclaw

[jmccr8]

4 minutes ago, Keiw1 said:

Plenty of countries have sanctions and have had. The bible describes 3 heavens-1) our atmosphere-2) outer space-3) Gods dwelling place.

The bible doesnt say what you said about buying gas and the such.

Hi Keiw

It says you will not be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast. That means absolutely every transaction with everyone on the planet 

[+Sherapy]

16 minutes ago, Keiw1 said:

Really there isnt much sense being in this sight. Its nothing but darkness.

Keiw1, it is you who is struggling, your beliefs have no value or meaning to anyone but you, If they bring you peace then good for you there really is no reason to be on UM.  
 

All the best to you.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Sherapy

[cormac mac airt]

5 minutes ago, Keiw1 said:

I guess it must be you turning me in for preaching. so dont bother anymore, i am done with you. 

Nope, not me. I would guess that TPTB have noticed you repeatedly sticking your foot in your mouth though, so congratulations! 
 

cormac