Leader of the OathKeepers found guilty of Sedition.

[Gromdor]

Oath Keepers boss guilty of seditious conspiracy in 1/6 case (msn.com)

Remember this guy had ties to Roger Stone who in turn is buddies with Trump.  This makes me wonder if we are going to see a few more people being convicted of sedition in the future.

[+and-then]

21 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Oath Keepers boss guilty of seditious conspiracy in 1/6 case (msn.com)

Remember this guy had ties to Roger Stone who in turn is buddies with Trump.  This makes me wonder if we are going to see a few more people being convicted of sedition in the future.

Only if a DC jury gets to hear the case.  Imagine yourself on trial in Alabama or Arkansas, having to overcome not only the evidence but the biases of the jury pool.  In fact, even THAT isn't a fair comparison.  DC votes well over 90% Democrat.  The thing about dual standards of "justice" is that eventually, millions will simply ignore the laws.  Who can stop them then?

[lightly]

9 minutes ago, and-then said:

Only if a DC jury gets to hear the case.  Imagine yourself on trial in Alabama or Arkansas, having to overcome not only the evidence but the biases of the jury pool.  In fact, even THAT isn't a fair comparison.  DC votes well over 90% Democrat.  The thing about dual standards of "justice" is that eventually, millions will simply ignore the laws.  Who can stop them then?

Everyone from the president ,congressmen,  senators, and all soldiers ,including the National Guard ..who ALL swear the  same oath  to protect and defend the constitution (our rights)  from ALL threats,  foreign And domestic. ?

Edited November 29, 2022 by lightly

[spartan max2]

11 minutes ago, and-then said:

Only if a DC jury gets to hear the case.  Imagine yourself on trial in Alabama or Arkansas, having to overcome not only the evidence but the biases of the jury pool.  In fact, even THAT isn't a fair comparison.  DC votes well over 90% Democrat.  The thing about dual standards of "justice" is that eventually, millions will simply ignore the laws.  Who can stop them then?

The jury is agreed upon by both the prosecutor and defense. 

Defense had the chance to raise issues with the jury during jury selection if they wanted to 

[+OverSword]

30 minutes ago, and-then said:

Only if a DC jury gets to hear the case.  Imagine yourself on trial in Alabama or Arkansas, having to overcome not only the evidence but the biases of the jury pool.  In fact, even THAT isn't a fair comparison.  DC votes well over 90% Democrat.  The thing about dual standards of "justice" is that eventually, millions will simply ignore the laws.  Who can stop them then?

Then you just choose your other option of trial by judge.  It's a ****ty choice to have to make but if I were a proud boy in DC.........

Edited November 29, 2022 by OverSword

[spartan max2]

It also worth noting that there were two conspiracy charges that the jury found him not guilty of. So I find the idea of it's just being some "Uber liberal" jury that made it through jury selection to be unlikely.

I did find this funny.

Quote

In between those remarks, prosecutors showed the jury hundreds of encrypted text messages swapped by Oath Keepers members, demonstrating that Mr. Rhodes and some of his followers were in thrall to outlandish fears that Chinese agents had infiltrated the United States government and that Mr. Biden — a “puppet” of the Chinese Communist Party — might cede control of the country to the United Nations.

Reminds me of UM lol

Edited November 29, 2022 by spartan max2

[Hankenhunter]

Judging by our resident trumpers post, they'll never be happy. No matter how many times they get their own way, it's never going to be enough. The whining never stops. It's just one long never ending spiel about being persecuted. It's getting awfully old. It would be nice for once if they stood up and and actually accepted responsibility for their actions for a change. 

[Hankenhunter]

3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

It also worth noting that there were two conspiracy charges that the jury found him not guilty of. So I find the idea of it's just being some "Uber liberal" jury that made it through jury selection to be unlikely.

I did find this funny.

Reminds me of UM lol

UM is a very good barometer of what's going through trumper's minds at any given time. That they are allowed to spew their poison shows that they aren't near as persecuted as they say they are.

[Gromdor]

I find it weird that people think the majority of Americans voted for Trump but suddenly when it comes to trial time everyone is a liberal.  

[Paranoid Android]

11 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

UM is a very good barometer of what's going through trumper's minds at any given time. That they are allowed to spew their poison shows that they aren't near as persecuted as they say they are.

The moderation here on UM is far more equal than it is on other places like Twitter and Facebook. If the moderation on Twitter was the same as the moderation here, I guarantee you there would be substantially fewer conservatives complaining about double standards and free speech. I would only cite this website in context of moderation as an example of good, unbiased moderation, and contrast that to the terrible moderation and ban-for-no-reason attitude that many social media platforms have towards conservatives! 

[Hankenhunter]

6 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

The moderation here on UM is far more equal than it is on other places like Twitter and Facebook. If the moderation on Twitter was the same as the moderation here, I guarantee you there would be substantially fewer conservatives complaining about double standards and free speech. I would only cite this website in context of moderation as an example of good, unbiased moderation, and contrast that to the terrible moderation and ban-for-no-reason attitude that many social media platforms have towards conservatives! 

Sorry, couldn't hear you above yet more whining.

[acidhead]

1 hour ago, Paranoid Android said:

The moderation here on UM is far more equal than it is on other places like Twitter and Facebook.

How many moderators are there on this forum? I can think of a few moderators who are no longer around , who used to participate, and none have been replaced.   In general numbers, imo, have dropped like a rock. Current stats show there's around 198k members.  How many are actually active members?  If I remember correctly there was over 100k members 10 years ago. And a lot more active members than today.  

Just spit balling here:

I'd imagine the rise of FB, Twitter, Instagram, etc are due to the drop in participation here.  Those websites also offer APPS as well making participating much easier on mobile phones.  

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by acidhead

[Raptor Witness]

41 minutes ago, acidhead said:

'd imagine the rise of FB, Twitter, Instagram, etc are due to the drop in participation here.  Those websites also offer APPS as well making participating much easier on mobile phones.  

The Internet is awash with places to discuss “mysteries,” but I think Reddit is the more obvious competitor for our forum.

Regarding the successful prosecution of sedition, I’m proud of our DOJ. My hats off.  It’s a good day for the Republic.

We don’t need another civil war.

[Paranoid Android]

2 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Sorry, couldn't hear you above yet more whining.

The childishness is strong with this one!

~ Darth Vader

Edited November 30, 2022 by Paranoid Android

[+and-then]

6 hours ago, lightly said:

Everyone from the president ,congressmen,  senators, and all soldiers ,including the National Guard ..who ALL swear the  same oath  to protect and defend the constitution (our rights)  from ALL threats,  foreign And domestic. ?

Absolutely!  Why on earth would a citizen be bothered with toeing the line when they KNOW their political opposite number is being untouched by the same laws?  A perfect example can be found in the behavior of the Left after the 2016 election.  They ignored the validity of a president they disagreed with and nothing happened to them.  They IGNORED federal immigration statutes and NOTHING happened to them.  It's ridiculous to the point of childishness to imagine that half the country is going to follow laws and rules that they can see are being ignored by others.  It amazes me that anyone has trouble grasping that.

[+and-then]

6 hours ago, OverSword said:

Then you just choose your other option of trial by judge.  It's a ****ty choice to have to make but if I were a proud boy in DC.........

Unless you have the ability to "shop" for the judge you think will be fair, the same result will be seen.  It's plain that any Conservative or Trump voter has next to no chance at a fair trial in DC.  If Trump is eventually indicted and a change of venue isn't granted,  the outcome will be a foregone conclusion.  That may sound great to those who think he deserves conviction but it isn't going to be so grand after millions of the rest of us have enough and rebel against a crooked system.  All that will require is having enough people simply refuse to obey.

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

I find it weird that people think the majority of Americans voted for Trump but suddenly when it comes to trial time everyone is a liberal.  

I made NO SUCH STATEMENT.  I said the bias was overwhelming in DC.  And it IS.  Just look at Sussman's verdict.  The evidence clearly proved him guilty and his jury nullified.  That same jury would cheerfully send Trump or any of his supporters to prison based on politics, alone.  Here's the thing... it doesn't MATTER if you think otherwise.  All that MATTERS is the growth of that perception to a point where millions simply get fed up and walk away from the system.  Only childish people will imagine they can ignore laws but their neighbors MUST obey or else.

[Hankenhunter]

25 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

The childishness is strong with this one!

~ Darth Vader

 

[Hankenhunter]

Anyone know if the sentences will be concurrent or consecutive?

Also does anyone think this will serve as a future deterrent? 

Imagine throwing away two decades or more of your time on this rock for Donald Trump.

[Golden Duck]

54 minutes ago, and-then said:

Absolutely!  Why on earth would a citizen be bothered with toeing the line when they KNOW their political opposite number is being untouched by the same laws?  A perfect example can be found in the behavior of the Left after the 2016 election.  They ignored the validity of a president they disagreed with and nothing happened to them.  They IGNORED federal immigration statutes and NOTHING happened to them.  It's ridiculous to the point of childishness to imagine that half the country is going to follow laws and rules that they can see are being ignored by others.  It amazes me that anyone has trouble grasping that.

Othering is not a fellowtraveller with unity.  But, it is compatible with victimhood.

[Golden Duck]

51 minutes ago, and-then said:

Unless you have the ability to "shop" for the judge you think will be fair, the same result will be seen.  It's plain that any Conservative or Trump voter has next to no chance at a fair trial in DC.  If Trump is eventually indicted and a change of venue isn't granted,  the outcome will be a foregone conclusion.  That may sound great to those who think he deserves conviction but it isn't going to be so grand after millions of the rest of us have enough and rebel against a crooked system.  All that will require is having enough people simply refuse to obey.

And you'll have had enough when enough of whoever is left have had enough with The Left, right?

[the13bats]

8 hours ago, and-then said:

Only if a DC jury gets to hear the case.  Imagine yourself on trial in Alabama or Arkansas, having to overcome not only the evidence but the biases of the jury pool.  In fact, even THAT isn't a fair comparison.  DC votes well over 90% Democrat.  The thing about dual standards of "justice" is that eventually, millions will simply ignore the laws.  Who can stop them then?

Its about being convicted of sedation just because your golden boy ahem tangerine dream might get named and in hot water for insiting and or involvment doesnt mean it wasnt a crime against our country, yours and mine.

 

1 hour ago, and-then said:

Only childish people will imagine they can ignore laws but their neighbors MUST obey or else.

You said a while back you would ignore laws you do not agree with.

1 hour ago, and-then said:

it isn't going to be so grand after millions of the rest of us have enough and rebel

I thought you said you stopped your bullying threats of civil disobedience and violence.

[MGB]

11 hours ago, and-then said:

I made NO SUCH STATEMENT.  I said the bias was overwhelming in DC.  And it IS.  Just look at Sussman's verdict.  The evidence clearly proved him guilty and his jury nullified.  That same jury would cheerfully send Trump or any of his supporters to prison based on politics, alone.  Here's the thing... it doesn't MATTER if you think otherwise.  All that MATTERS is the growth of that perception to a point where millions simply get fed up and walk away from the system.  Only childish people will imagine they can ignore laws but their neighbors MUST obey or else.

Regardless of the outcome of that trial, we need a criminal justice system that works in this country and should at least try to hold people accountable.

We simply cannot let people get away with things that never need repeating in this country such as Trump carrying home classified documents and falsely claiming other Presidents did as well, and any other person would be in handcuffs.

And the system worked as designed in the Sussman trial.

Michael Sussmann found not guilty of lying to FBI, in blow to Durham investigation | CNN Politics

One juror told CNN that the jury didn’t initially agree on a verdict when they got the case on Friday afternoon. But over the course of deliberations, the juror said, all 12 jurors agreed that Durham’s team did not meet the five legal requirements needed to find Sussmann guilty.

[Gromdor]

11 hours ago, and-then said:

I made NO SUCH STATEMENT.  I said the bias was overwhelming in DC.  And it IS.  Just look at Sussman's verdict.  The evidence clearly proved him guilty and his jury nullified.  That same jury would cheerfully send Trump or any of his supporters to prison based on politics, alone.  Here's the thing... it doesn't MATTER if you think otherwise.  All that MATTERS is the growth of that perception to a point where millions simply get fed up and walk away from the system.  Only childish people will imagine they can ignore laws but their neighbors MUST obey or else.

Sussman was going to walk due to the simple fact that a prosecutor can't really prove a guy is lying when he says, "I was pursuing it on my own and not on behalf of someone else."  I suspect the only reason why it even went to trial was because Durham and the Republicans were desperate to show a result of their years long investigation.

As for the bolded. Decent folk and "Law and Order" people will obey the law even if their neighbors aren't because they are "Law and Order".  Only criminals act like criminals because their neighbors are criminals and really shouldn't whine when they go to jail because they are less skilled at it.  Because at the end of the day no matter how highly they think of themselves they are still  just criminals.  Childish would be something like doing drugs because your neighbor is doing drugs.

[MGB]

10 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Anyone know if the sentences will be concurrent or consecutive?

Also does anyone think this will serve as a future deterrent? 

Imagine throwing away two decades or more of your time on this rock for Donald Trump.

It is like I said before, Trump lives a life of luxury in both New York and Mar a Lago. Mar a Lago is an exclusive club of which the membership fees are $200,000 dollars and I believe $17,000 per annum after that. So, he is surrounded by wealthy people. He said what he like the most about his Presidency was making a lot of secret rich friends in D.C.

One cannot just walk into Trump tower, nor Mar a Lago, so this separates him from the common man and only allows the rich and influential to be seen around him, yet somehow these yodels and *******s think that Trump "really" cares about them?