The coming CBDC and "programmable" money

[+and-then]

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/video/bank-england-intervene-digital-currency-173200283.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9zZWFyY2guYnJhdmUuY29tLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHkt7P9Yv7WlKK8et8pPOsNR7WWqXIF8qEbnI_cJ7dwbGx7lmC7v9ZuykbB2CQRTOL_M0sK4DmC8QGEAYF0rKuvYCLsQpeQbEBaORtW9_wRZHPJ2GG5dvmb7AV64dlEeEBtSpmlkUH-m4fhB2VLHIs81ZWmp73Vslvd5wLWp46lt

I'd like to discuss the pros and cons of this new system of government control.  I'm totally against it for many reasons but I'd like to get other perspectives.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Ohh well… isn’t THAT a brave new world. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

It’s already a “thing” here in Oz, the “cashless welfare card” whereby certain people on government support get told what they can and cannot purchase. It’s sold as “stopping people from buying booze instead of food” but is such a great intuitive system run by such caring people that buying medicine for your children is also forbidden because their names are not on the card.

[Gromdor]

Interesting concept.  But one question- Since when was England part of the US?  

Think you got this in the wrong section.

[+and-then]

7 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Ohh well… isn’t THAT a brave new world. 

 

7 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Interesting concept.  But one question- Since when was England part of the US?  

Think you got this in the wrong section.

I just grabbed a link that explains the concept in general.  The concept is the same everywhere.  It began as part of the Social Credit system of the CCP.  There are two flaws/features with it that are unacceptable for a free people.  Once this is adopted there will never be any freedom in the lives of people who are forced to use it.  They will never again be able to have privacy in their lives at ANY level.  Every purchase will be known to a central/Federal government drone AND... the worst part of it will be the ease with which some government bureaucrat, with a few keystrokes, will be able to reach into your account and program how you can spend your own money.

One example of government doing this on a smaller scale can be found in our "food assistance" accounts.  The government can limit certain types of food from being purchased with that assistance.  Imagine having someone who has a totally different worldview, with the ability to tell you you are not allowed to buy certain products or limit the amount of certain purchases.  IF that money is a gift from the government then that level of control is less onerous.  But if I work and earn that money it isn't anyone's business how I choose to spend it so long as the purchases are legal.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Shall we go full hellfire and ruin? 
Why not. 
It’s all very Revelation-y isn’t it?

[the13bats]

17 minutes ago, and-then said:

 

I just grabbed a link that explains the concept in general.  The concept is the same everywhere.  It began as part of the Social Credit system of the CCP.  There are two flaws/features with it that are unacceptable for a free people.  Once this is adopted there will never be any freedom in the lives of people who are forced to use it.  They will never again be able to have privacy in their lives at ANY level.  Every purchase will be known to a central/Federal government drone AND... the worst part of it will be the ease with which some government bureaucrat, with a few keystrokes, will be able to reach into your account and program how you can spend your own money.

One example of government doing this on a smaller scale can be found in our "food assistance" accounts.  The government can limit certain types of food from being purchased with that assistance.  Imagine having someone who has a totally different worldview, with the ability to tell you you are not allowed to buy certain products or limit the amount of certain purchases.  IF that money is a gift from the government then that level of control is less onerous.  But if I work and earn that money it isn't anyone's business how I choose to spend it so long as the purchases are legal.

Coming from the guy who wasnt thrilled when he missed that when he donated to trump the auto withdrawl box was checked by default.

[+and-then]

2 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Shall we go full hellfire and ruin? 
Why not. 
It’s all very Revelation-y isn’t it?

Yeah, there are similarities but mixing religion with it just weakens the discussion.  That whole "can neither buy nor sell unless they have his mark or the number of his name" thing fits perfectly.  That prediction wasn't possible to be fulfilled when it was written.  Any grade school child can recognize it today.  

[+and-then]

2 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Coming from the guy who wasnt thrilled when he missed that when he donated to trump the auto withdrawl box was checked by default.

I don't see any similarity at all, but then, I'm not Trump obsessed.  Do you have anything to add to THIS discussion?  For example, would you be okay with having a bureaucrat social justice type having the power to limit what when and where you can spend your own money?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 minute ago, and-then said:

I don't see any similarity at all, but then, I'm not Trump obsessed.  Do you have anything to add to THIS discussion?  For example, would you be okay with having a bureaucrat social justice type having the power to limit what when and where you can spend your own money?

In the full knowledge that when it has been attempted, it failed miserably to pass the easily predicted (by everyone else) hurdles such as “being able to buy medicine for someone else” or “buying something from overseas”? 
Hell no. Given how my government has behaved lately (not to mention the Tory party in the UK), my already low opinion of politicians has appeared to be overly optimistic. 

[the13bats]

1 minute ago, and-then said:

I don't see any similarity at all, but then, I'm not Trump obsessed.  Do you have anything to add to THIS discussion?  For example, would you be okay with having a bureaucrat social justice type having the power to limit what when and where you can spend your own money?

Lets be real you are hands down unquestioned the most trump obsessed person ive ever met.

And more random capitalized words, so very odd.

Well as for your question ill get to that but you posted it more to poke at the ebil gobment.

Show me where America is using this system or considering it and ill give you my opinion.

 

 

[psyche101]

When it is stated "controlling spending" is that meaning that all spending will be monitored, because that seems a job too big for anyone, or would criminal and illegal operations be "red flagged" so to speak to stop donating to terrorists or phone scammers or other criminal organisations? 

Seems very vague on particulars. 

[jeem]

19 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

When it is stated "controlling spending" is that meaning that all spending will be monitored, because that seems a job too big for anyone, or would criminal and illegal operations be "red flagged" so to speak to stop donating to terrorists or phone scammers or other criminal organisations? 

Seems very vague on particulars. 

I think this means money with a expiration date. Here is a world bank article explaining this. It's a multi part article though and I linked only part 1.

Very dangerous if you ask me.

Here is part 2

Edited December 5, 2022 by jeem

[jmccr8]

Opens wallet, sees cash puts wallet away and shrugs

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, jeem said:

I think this means money with a expiration date. Here is a world bank article explaining this. It's a multi part article though and I linked only part 1.

Very dangerous if you ask me.

Here is part 2

To a point.

It could also stimulate economy going by your link. That's usually a very good thing.

[Tatetopa]

3 hours ago, and-then said:

But if I work and earn that money it isn't anyone's business how I choose to spend it so long as the purchases are legal.

That becomes the sticking point.   You are not allowed to buy them, they have become illegal for you. 

But hello to everybody who thinks running the government like a business is a good idea.  We become employees and get paid as little as possible to be as productive as possible.   This is the government running like a business.

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, the13bats said:

Show me where America is using this system or considering it and ill give you my opinion.

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/09/01/digital-dollar-project-plans-to-explore-cbdc-technical-solutions-with-new-sandbox/

https://digitaldollarproject.org/

2 hours ago, jeem said:

I think this means money with a expiration date. Here is a world bank article explaining this. It's a multi part article though and I linked only part 1.

Very dangerous if you ask me.

Here is part 2

I hadn't seen this aspect of their plans for control.  The main problem I'd have with it would be the total loss of privacy and the creeping control the government would engage in once they know EVERYTHING about your finances.  An entity that can control that much of a person's life, can dictate how the person lives and force him to obey social "justice" and other degenerate behaviors that the masses of progressives desire to make mainstream. 

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Opens wallet, sees cash puts wallet away and shrugs

Right... because our government would never spring some outrageous demand on us out of the blue, huh?  I assume your lackadaisical attitude means you'll roll with whatever they decide to do and hope for the best.  I think that will be the attitude of most people.  Once the reality of the severe invasiveness and loss of autonomy comes crashing down it will be far too late to plan for any alternative.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

When it is stated "controlling spending" is that meaning that all spending will be monitored, because that seems a job too big for anyone, or would criminal and illegal operations be "red flagged" so to speak to stop donating to terrorists or phone scammers or other criminal organisations? 

Seems very vague on particulars. 

Sounds like the cashless debit card to me… you know, the thing that somehow turned out to be Scotty from Marketing’s least terrible, bad idea.

[jmccr8]

26 minutes ago, and-then said:

Right... because our government would never spring some outrageous demand on us out of the blue, huh?  I assume your lackadaisical attitude means you'll roll with whatever they decide to do and hope for the best.  I think that will be the attitude of most people.  Once the reality of the severe invasiveness and loss of autonomy comes crashing down it will be far too late to plan for any alternative.

Hi And Then

It’s not our government it’s yours I live in a different country. My attitude about it is at my age I will likely be dead by the time I can’t spend cash anymore. Not sure why you are getting upset about one guy on the internet that doesn’t seem to assume your personal paranoia about being tracked. You do realize all those apps on your phone that have access to photos, contacts and files are tracking you all day everyday. Your car has cameras and microphones in it that invade your privacy as well but you don’t seem overly concerned about that.

No point in getting upset with me about something I didn’t create or try to implement and will likely ever use just like that credit card that I never use.

Likely 90% of the purchases I make I pay cash and seldom use my debit card. If I buy on line then I buy preloaded credit cards to pay with and if that company doesn’t accept that type of payment I go to another company that will I don’t use pay pal or anything else that I have to give bank information to in order to do a transaction. Yes there are somethings that I cannot do online because they dictate how they want to be paid and I won’t conform it’s not the end of my life to not get something that I might want when I want and will take the time and put the effort in to find the same thing somewhere else from someone that will accept the terms I am willing to pay with.

[jeem]

7 hours ago, psyche101 said:

To a point.

It could also stimulate economy going by your link. That's usually a very good thing.

It could also be used to restrict payments say with certain geographic locations , set early expiration date or freeze the currency entirely making it unusable targeting individuals like protesters.

Whatever good it has certainly does not outweighs the bad in my opinion.    

Edited December 5, 2022 by jeem

[jeem]

6 hours ago, and-then said:

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/09/01/digital-dollar-project-plans-to-explore-cbdc-technical-solutions-with-new-sandbox/

https://digitaldollarproject.org/

I hadn't seen this aspect of their plans for control.  The main problem I'd have with it would be the total loss of privacy and the creeping control the government would engage in once they know EVERYTHING about your finances.  An entity that can control that much of a person's life, can dictate how the person lives and force him to obey social "justice" and other degenerate behaviors that the masses of progressives desire to make mainstream. 

What is frustrating is that many people don't realize the danger this type of currency posses. Most think that it will be just another type of credit cards.

As the saying goes you start to value something after you lose it.

Edited December 5, 2022 by jeem

[spartan max2]

The article was really short. Are we just talking about a cashless society or is this something more?

Because if it's just about being cashless than that's basically already how it is. For example like 99% of my money only exist as 1s and 0s on computers. 

Does anyone get paid in cash anymore or is it all just checks and direct deposits?

[Gromdor]

10 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

The article was really short. Are we just talking about a cashless society or is this something more?

Because if it's just about being cashless than that's basically already how it is. For example like 99% of my money only exist as 1s and 0s on computers. 

Does anyone get paid in cash anymore or is it all just checks and direct deposits?

Programmable Money: How Smart Contracts Make Money Better | Algorand

Basically digital money that can be programmed in a certain way.  Like trust money that doesn't become valid till the recipient turns 18.  Or food stamp money that can't buy alcohol.

edit to add:  I am all digital.  My pay is transfered and I do all purchases on designated cards. I have been like this fo probably the last decade or so.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Gromdor

[jmccr8]

7 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

 

Does anyone get paid in cash anymore or is it all just checks and direct deposits?

Hi Spartan

I get paid by e-transfer, cheques or cash just depends on how a clients wants to pay