Widespread arrests to stop German Coup by "Right Wing"

[+and-then]

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by and-then

[Ozymandias]

Throw the book at these b*******. There is no place for people who want to usurp a democratically elected government using deadly force just because they do not agree with it. These Far Right idiots wanted to install a minor aristocrat calling himself Prince Heinrich XIII of the House of Reuss. Aristocrats are not recognised in Germany and have no special privileges unlike some other countries in Europe. 

[lying]

I know nothing about this case whatsoever, but we can all agree there is a threshold for when armed rebellion is appropriate (US revolutionary war for example).

Can we find agreement on when that is acceptable? 

I mean, Germany has basically lost the plot at the moment. Many US armed service personnel and bases are in Germany. The US this year blew up some German infrastructure which would enable industry and cheap heating this winter and the German government has done nothing about it. At some point you lose the social license to govern, even if elected.

Would anyone disagree that armed revolution would have been great in Germany in 1939? In the soviet union at any time between 1920 and 1990? In China now?

When do we accept it as necessary and when do we condemn it?

 

Edit: I have been thinking for a while that any government which creates 2 classes of citizens with different rights and freedoms is my tipping point. We know the slippery slope from history starts there

Edited December 7, 2022 by Knob Oddy

[Ell]

It's science fiction become reality.

 

In Philip K. Dick's "Minority Report" the criminals are convicted to be guilty before they actually committed the murder.

 

Does Germany secretly employ precogs?

Edited December 7, 2022 by Ell

[zep73]

The coup plotters found inspiration to their plans in conspiracy theories, like QAnon and belief in a shadow government. When will the far right see through that BS? It's freaking dangerous and a threat to any democracy.

[lying]

Just now, Ell said:

It's science fiction become reality.

 

In Philip K. Dick's "Minority Report" the criminals are convicted to be guilty before they actually committed the murder.

 

Dos Germany secretly employ precogs?

Good point. Its not as if they acted in an armed rebellion. 

It will be interesting to see any evidence presented.

BTW, "I am arresting you for the future murder of Sarah Marks". Good movie,  

[lying]

8 minutes ago, zep73 said:

The coup plotters found inspiration to their plans in conspiracy theories, like QAnon and belief in a shadow government. When will the far right see through that BS? It's freaking dangerous and a threat to any democracy.

Looks like you've already seen the evidence from the trial. 

[+susieice]

I just saw this on ABC World News. They mentioned a few of the people arrested but not by name. They said it was like Jan 6.

CNN is saying names and mentions Qnon.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/germany-arrests-25-suspected-far-right-extremists-for-plotting-to-overthrow-government/ar-AA150zAa

[zep73]

8 minutes ago, Knob Oddy said:

Looks like you've already seen the evidence from the trial. 

They had members who were soldiers and policemen, with access to weapons, plus a plan to use them. What more do you need? But okay, they will get their fair trial. If that is not proven to be the case, I will admit to you I was wrong.

[lying]

26 minutes ago, susieice said:

I just saw this on ABC World News. They mentioned a few of the people arrested but not by name. They said it was like Jan 6.

CNN is saying names and mentions Qnon.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/germany-arrests-25-suspected-far-right-extremists-for-plotting-to-overthrow-government/ar-AA150zAa

Of course they are. CNN employs Anderson Cooper who used to work for the CIA and didn't study journalism at all. But the deep state is just a conspiracy theory

[+susieice]

2 minutes ago, Knob Oddy said:

Of course they are. CNN employs Anderson Cooper who used to work for the CIA and didn't study journalism at all. But the deep state is just a conspiracy theory

ABC is mentioning Qnon on their website too.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/dozens-detained-germany-suspected-plot-overthrow-government-prosecutor/story?id=94674505

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Knob Oddy said:

I know nothing about this case whatsoever, but we can all agree there is a threshold for when armed rebellion is appropriate (US revolutionary war for example).

Can we find agreement on when that is acceptable? 

No. This is 2022. Not 1860. 

1 hour ago, Knob Oddy said:

I mean, Germany has basically lost the plot at the moment. Many US armed service personnel and bases are in Germany. The US this year blew up some German infrastructure which would enable industry and cheap heating this winter and the German government has done nothing about it. At some point you lose the social license to govern, even if elected.

Would anyone disagree that armed revolution would have been great in Germany in 1939? In the soviet union at any time between 1920 and 1990? In China now?

When do we accept it as necessary and when do we condemn it?

 

Edit: I have been thinking for a while that any government which creates 2 classes of citizens with different rights and freedoms is my tipping point. We know the slippery slope from history starts there

So you're supportive of this terrorist action?

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Ell said:

It's science fiction become reality.

 

In Philip K. Dick's "Minority Report" the criminals are convicted to be guilty before they actually committed the murder.

 

Does Germany secretly employ precogs?

As I mentioned to the knob, it's 2022. Nearly 2023.

The thing you typed your post on is also capable of tracking information. There's this thing police do called surveillance in this day and age too, it provides information. As wild as it seems, these clever police plant people to gather information.

With all that marvelous technology and technique, we are capable of gathering such information without a precog. 

[+susieice]

NBC mentions it too. It seems to me to be a statement made by German prosecutors.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/germany-arrests-plot-far-right-extremist-coup-military-rcna60481

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, Knob Oddy said:

I know nothing about this case whatsoever, but we can all agree there is a threshold for when armed rebellion is appropriate (US revolutionary war for example).

Can we find agreement on when that is acceptable? 

I mean, Germany has basically lost the plot at the moment. Many US armed service personnel and bases are in Germany. The US this year blew up some German infrastructure which would enable industry and cheap heating this winter and the German government has done nothing about it. At some point you lose the social license to govern, even if elected

What did the US Blow up that effects Germany?

1 hour ago, Knob Oddy said:

Would anyone disagree that armed revolution would have been great in Germany in 1939? In the soviet union at any time between 1920 and 1990? In China now?

When do we accept it as necessary and when do we condemn it?

 

Edit: I have been thinking for a while that any government which creates 2 classes of citizens with different rights and freedoms is my tipping point. We know the slippery slope from history starts there

 

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, zep73 said:

The coup plotters found inspiration to their plans in conspiracy theories, like QAnon and belief in a shadow government. When will the far right see through that BS? It's freaking dangerous and a threat to any democracy.

First, these people have only been arrested.  It remains to be proven in a court that they have done what they are accused of.  IF they have, then by all means, punish them to the extent the law allows.  The danger here is when sensational charges are made and spread through media with little attention to potential innocence.  The other issue I have is the growing trend for western governments to attach labels - almost exclusively demonizing ONE side of the political spectrum - and providing no actual proof of the claim.  That situation ends with governments being able to demonize innocent people and destroy them.  It backfires eventually... ever hear of a guy named Robespierre?

Applying an inflammatory label as soon as the first reports come out, should be illegal.  It's not only gratuitous, it seems to be politically motivated and a step towards tyranny.

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, susieice said:

They said it was like Jan 6.

Imagine that...

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

27 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

What did the US Blow up that effects Germany?

 

My best guess is that he thinks the US blew up the North Stream gas pipeline. 

[zep73]

6 minutes ago, and-then said:

First, these people have only been arrested.  It remains to be proven in a court that they have done what they are accused of.  IF they have, then by all means, punish them to the extent the law allows.  The danger here is when sensational charges are made and spread through media with little attention to potential innocence.  The other issue I have is the growing trend for western governments to attach labels - almost exclusively demonizing ONE side of the political spectrum - and providing no actual proof of the claim.  That situation ends with governments being able to demonize innocent people and destroy them.  It backfires eventually... ever hear of a guy named Robespierre?

Applying an inflammatory label as soon as the first reports come out, should be illegal.  It's not only gratuitous, it seems to be politically motivated and a step towards tyranny.

Normally I'd agree with you, but the case is that the people, who were arrested, belong to groups who are far right and subscribe to those theories.

[+and-then]

56 minutes ago, zep73 said:

Normally I'd agree with you, but the case is that the people, who were arrested, belong to groups who are far right and subscribe to those theories.

Then when the evidence is presented in court, then it will be valid to label them.  Doing so in advance is going to lead to creeping growth of governmental tyranny.  There is a real trend towards the media labeling groups and fomenting hate toward those groups without providing any real evidence.  They did it quite successfully against Trump for 4 years.  To this day, those who hate him believe he was guilty of collusion with Russia and being an agent for Putin.  This, even after their special counsel, Mueller, admitted there was NO PROOF for that charge.  Media in the role of propagandists is dangerously destructive to our legal system and overall rule of law.

[zep73]

1 minute ago, and-then said:

To this day, those who hate him believe he was guilty of collusion with Russia and being an agent for Putin.

I  dislike Trump very very much, but I don't believe he colluded with the Russians. See, you are guilty of the same blame-game you just warned against.

[+and-then]

3 minutes ago, zep73 said:

I  dislike Trump very very much, but I don't believe he colluded with the Russians. See, you are guilty of the same blame-game you just warned against.

Fair enough, but I was merely pointing out the truth for most of those who believed in his guilt.  You'll have to admit that the hate generated against him BY THE MEDIA has been instrumental in the emotional reactions to every word from his mouth.  That is the power of the media narrative and when they can run such campaigns unchecked they can destroy ANYONE. 

[zep73]

Just now, and-then said:

Fair enough, but I was merely pointing out the truth for most of those who believed in his guilt.  You'll have to admit that the hate generated against him BY THE MEDIA has been instrumental in the emotional reactions to every word from his mouth.  That is the power of the media narrative and when they can run such campaigns unchecked they can destroy ANYONE. 

I didn't and don't follow US media, so no media can influence my attitude towards Trump. I hate him because he's a self-centered liar and a bigot, who values his own ambitions over the wellbeing of his country and the world as a whole.

[jmccr8]

15 minutes ago, and-then said:

Fair enough, but I was merely pointing out the truth for most of those who believed in his guilt.  You'll have to admit that the hate generated against him BY THE MEDIA has been instrumental in the emotional reactions to every word from his mouth.  That is the power of the media narrative and when they can run such campaigns unchecked they can destroy ANYONE. 

Hi And Then

I don’t think there are as many that hate Trump as there are disappointed, embarrassed, or disillusioned with him.

[Michelle]

27 minutes ago, zep73 said:

I didn't and don't follow US media, so no media can influence my attitude towards Trump. I hate him because he's a self-centered liar and a bigot, who values his own ambitions over the wellbeing of his country and the world as a whole.

So you get information from your local bar gossip?