Widespread arrests to stop German Coup by "Right Wing"

[zep73]

8 minutes ago, Michelle said:

So you get information from your local bar gossip? 

From neutral Danish ones 

They never trash talk Trump. All they say is that there is no evidence for his claims.

[Michelle]

2 minutes ago, zep73 said:

From neutral Danish ones 

They never trash talk Trump. All they say is that there is no evidence for his claims.

News like that would be refreshing. We have a new one called NewsNation that was the most neutral I'd seen, but then they hired Chris Cuomo. I haven't watched it since.

[Grim Reaper 6]

4 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

My best guess is that he thinks the US blew up the North Stream gas pipeline. 

Well he hasn’t responded so that’s what I think also, but that is complete nonsense.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

2 hours ago, Michelle said:

So you get information from your local bar gossip? 

Well, operating on the in vino veritas principle… it’s not that bad a place to get your facts!

[Grim Reaper 6]

4 hours ago, and-then said:

First, these people have only been arrested.  It remains to be proven in a court that they have done what they are accused of.  IF they have, then by all means, punish them to the extent the law allows.  The danger here is when sensational charges are made and spread through media with little attention to potential innocence.  The other issue I have is the growing trend for western governments to attach labels - almost exclusively demonizing ONE side of the political spectrum - and providing no actual proof of the claim.  That situation ends with governments being able to demonize innocent people and destroy them.  It backfires eventually... ever hear of a guy named Robespierre?

Applying an inflammatory label as soon as the first reports come out, should be illegal.  It's not only gratuitous, it seems to be politically motivated and a step towards tyranny. 

The German GSG 9 der Bundespolizei, are a very effective anti terrorism security force that doesn’t play games,  there is little danger of sensationalized charges. The Supposed perpetrators of the plot were ex-military members made up of a large number of Special Forces personnel. The GSG 9 der Bundespolizei have been monitoring this group since September along with phone taps so there is little doubt they were involved in a plot.

They applied no inflammatory labels to these people, I don’t understand why you feel that preventing a Coup by an extreme RightWing group should be illegal?

I think your problem here is comparing another Governments standards and motivation to those of the United States which isn’t really possible. 

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

I don’t think there are as many that hate Trump

I disagree.  The very fact that the media and the DC crowd are still investing huge amounts of time and money to foment anger and fear against him tells me they're all about hate.  I think they are so committed to stopping the man that they'd stir people into violence to keep him from office again.  THAT isn't accomplished with people who are disappointed.

[+and-then]

37 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

They applied no inflammatory labels to these people

They clearly labeled them as Far Right Movement.  THAT is a political label and it is the same type of inflammatory rhetoric media uses here, regularly.  Here in the U.S. these days all it takes is to have media agree on such a label and broadcast it as though there is no doubt of its veracity and the "suspect" is assumed guilty before a single bit of objective evidence is presented.

You may have enough personal experience with German law enforcement to be confident that they've made the correct assessment of the nature of this group but I've seen our media use this type of dangerous slander all too often and with no supporting evidence.  You'll have to forgive me for being a little sensitive to it since as a Trump supporter, I could easily someday be labeled and attacked based on nothing more than my political views. That should be a situation that all Americans find unacceptable.

 

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, and-then said:

I disagree.  The very fact that the media and the DC crowd are still investing huge amounts of time and money to foment anger and fear against him tells me they're all about hate.  I think they are so committed to stopping the man that they'd stir people into violence to keep him from office again.  THAT isn't accomplished with people who are disappointed.

Hi Snd Then

Being a bit dramatic aren’t you, there are what 350 million of you down there of which the majority are not actively making much noise other than casting a vote. The minority are those that get easily incited by the media that they don’t trust anymore than they do their politicians to do stupid sh!t. A democracy is the majority whether you agree or not and the votes have been cast.

[+and-then]

46 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

I don’t understand why you feel that preventing a Coup by an extreme RightWing group should be illegal?

Where did I say or even imply that a Coup was acceptable?

[Duke Wellington]

The Germans are at it again wanting another return to `the good old days` lol.

Probably a reaction to immigration and the EU.

[+and-then]

6 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

The Germans are at it again wanting another return to `the good old days` lol.

Probably a reaction to immigration and the EU.

I know there is a lot of good reasons for German - and EU citizens in general - to be upset about the mass illegal migration that is being foisted on them.  The same is happening here and it is going to have devastating long term effects on our stability.  Where I live, we are talking about forming "neighborhood" or community watch zones and getting folks who are willing, to begin patrolling for the safety of our families.  The image the Left is trying to sell is that of poor unfortunates who are fleeing tyranny or hoping for a better life but the reality is that they don't have a damned CLUE who most of these people are and they don't CARE.  IMO, the goal is to destabilize the country as quickly as possible and create a level of damage that no one will be able to fix.

[Setton]

6 hours ago, and-then said:

Applying an inflammatory label as soon as the first reports come out, should be illegal

Strange that you've never had the same qualms about labelling something Islamist terrorism when the perpetrator happens to be brown.

I cannot possibly think what the difference is 

[zep73]

25 minutes ago, and-then said:

The image the Left is trying to sell is that of poor unfortunates who are fleeing tyranny or hoping for a better life but the reality is that they don't have a damned CLUE who most of these people are and they don't CARE.  IMO, the goal is to destabilize the country as quickly as possible and create a level of damage that no one will be able to fix.

So your worries stems from conspiracy theories? Just like the people in Germany this thread is about? I can see why you defend them now.

[psyche101]

52 minutes ago, zep73 said:

So your worries stems from conspiracy theories? Just like the people in Germany this thread is about? I can see why you defend them now.

I'd say the term "right wing" might have him and a few others on edge. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, and-then said:

They clearly labeled them as Far Right Movement.  THAT is a political label and it is the same type of inflammatory rhetoric media uses here, regularly.  Here in the U.S. these days all it takes is to have media agree on such a label and broadcast it as though there is no doubt of its veracity and the "suspect" is assumed guilty before a single bit of objective evidence is presented.

Yes they did and who are you to say they are not?

First of all this occurred in Germany not the United States, do you know anything about how the German Government classifies Far Right

Again  how can you compare their usage of the term Far Right to how it is used in the United States?

You are aware that a conservative Republican is not considered Right Wing or Far RightWing?

2 hours ago, and-then said:

You may have enough personal experience with German law enforcement to be confident that they've made the correct assessment of the nature of this group but I've seen our media use this type of dangerous slander all too often and with no supporting evidence.  You'll have to forgive me for being a little sensitive to it since as a Trump supporter, I could easily someday be labeled and attacked based on nothing more than my political views. That should be a situation that all Americans find unacceptable.

 

I can forgive you for being sensitive, but honestly based upon many of your comments in multiple threads you seem Paranoid not sensitive. I sincerely wish you would reread your comments because it’s pretty obvious. For the last time you can’t compare the terms used by a foreign government to those used by ours.

Here is what Right Wing to Far Right Wing Politically in Germany.

Right-wing extremism

“”The field of right-wing extremism is characterised, to varying degrees, by elements of nationalist, antisemitic, racist and xenophobic ideology. Right-wing extremists allege that a person’s value is determined by the ethnic group or nation they belong to. This notion is fundamentally incompatible with the Basic Law.””

“”Two essential elements of the neo-National Socialist ideology are nationalism and racism. Most German right-wing extremists downplay or even glorify National Socialism in particular. The latter is definitely true for neo-National Socialists (neo-Nazis), who take the Third Reich as a yardstick for their aims at political, economic and social level.””

https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/EN/topics/right-wing-extremism/right-wing-extremism_node.html

Edited December 8, 2022 by Grim Reaper 6

[acidhead]

Here's an example of far left extremists in Germany:

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, and-then said:

Where did I say or even imply that a Coup was acceptable?

Whether you intended to come off that way your comments in the post below certainly did. Everything you said was in defense of the perpetrators and not a single positive comments about the German Governments handling of the situation.

From your post 16.

First, these people have only been arrested.  It remains to be proven in a court that they have done what they are accused of.  IF they have, then by all means, punish them to the extent the law allows.  The danger here is when sensational charges are made and spread through media with little attention to potential innocence.  The other issue I have is the growing trend for western governments to attach labels - almost exclusively demonizing ONE side of the political spectrum - and providing no actual proof of the claim.  That situation ends with governments being able to demonize innocent people and destroy them.  It backfires eventually... ever hear of a guy named Robespierre?

Applying an inflammatory label as soon as the first reports come out, should be illegal.  It's not only gratuitous, it seems to be politically motivated and a step towards tyranny.

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

12 minutes ago, acidhead said:

Here's an example of far left extremists in Germany:

 

Here is what RightWing to Far RightWing Extremism means in Germany.

https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/EN/topics/right-wing-extremism/right-wing-extremism_node.html

Here is what Leftwing or Far Leftwing Extremism is defined in Germany.

https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/EN/topics/left-wing-extremism/left-wing-extremism_node.html;jsessionid=9314C834BC2374F156D0614B8456487B.internet271

Edited December 8, 2022 by Grim Reaper 6

[Grim Reaper 6]

8 hours ago, and-then said:

Imagine that...

Here is a little more information to help you understand what was prevented from occurring in Germany. I hope the 3 different posts I have made give you a better idea of who the Perpetrators are and what they were trying to accomplish. Sadly it appears that the 6 January Capital Insurrection was a motivating fact for the Leaders of this Coup, and they also referenced QANON so unless we support that attack or QANON those comments should have no effect upon us as loyal Americans.

Twenty-five people including a 71-year-old prince, a retired military commander, and an acting judge and former MP for the far-right Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) were planning a violent overthrow of the state, including an armed attack on the parliament, inspired by the storming of the US Capitol, according to prosecutors.

The group was apparently driven in ideology by the deep-state conspiracy theories of QAnon and the Reichsbürger (“empire citizens”) movement, which denies the right of modern Germany to exist. It was planning to renegotiate the country’s post-second world war settlement, insisting the “Deutsche Reich” still had legitimacy despite having ended with the Nazis’ defeat in 1945.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/07/german-police-raids-target-far-right-reich-citizens-movement

Below is what the Reichsburger ( individuals involved in the Coup believe and stand for )

Reichsbürger" and "Selbstverwalter"

Only a small percentage of “Reichsbürger” and “Selbstverwalter” are also right-wing extremists. The majority display few elements of right-wing extremist ideology, if any. Regardless of this, it is especially the anti-state and conspiracy-related arguments put forward by these individuals that facilitate compatibility with antisemitic ideas, which also play an important role in right-wing extremism.

The antisemitic attitudes and assertions of “Reichsbürger” and “Selbstverwalter” range from accusations by unemployed individuals who blame their being out of work on people of Jewish faith, through openly antisemitic conspiracy theories often conveyed using codes, to Holocaust denial.

https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/EN/topics/reichsbuerger-and-selbstverwalter/reichsbuerger-and-selbstverwalter_node.html

[Grim Reaper 6]

3 hours ago, and-then said:

I disagree.  The very fact that the media and the DC crowd are still investing huge amounts of time and money to foment anger and fear against him tells me they're all about hate.  I think they are so committed to stopping the man that they'd stir people into violence to keep him from office again.  THAT isn't accomplished with people who are disappointed.

Can you honestly say that Trumps big mouth or actions don’t create many of the problems he is faced with?

 

[odas]

14 hours ago, Ell said:

It's science fiction become reality.

 

In Philip K. Dick's "Minority Report" the criminals are convicted to be guilty before they actually committed the murder.

 

Does Germany secretly employ precogs?

You do know that an intention of commiting a crime is also punishable by law?

 

[pellinore]

14 hours ago, zep73 said:

The coup plotters found inspiration to their plans in conspiracy theories, like QAnon and belief in a shadow government. When will the far right see through that BS? It's freaking dangerous and a threat to any democracy.

I thought it was the far right that propagated these conspiracy theories?

[pellinore]

12 minutes ago, odas said:

You do know that an intention of commiting a crime is also punishable by law?

 

Inchoate offences. The UK has also incarcerated thousands of people who have committed no offence, have no plans to commit an offence, but who are considered to have dangerous personality disorders, following the Michael Stone murders: Dangerous and severe personality disorder | The British Journal of Psychiatry | Cambridge Core

Edited December 8, 2022 by pellinore

[spartan max2]

15 hours ago, Knob Oddy said:

I know nothing about this case whatsoever, but we can all agree there is a threshold for when armed rebellion is appropriate (US revolutionary war for example).

Not in democracies. 

One of the main points of democracy is that it gives people a way to make change and deal with differences without violence.

Germany and the US clearly do not meet the threshold for armed revolution.

These type of coups are just a ton of fascist babies who can't deal with the fact they don't have enough population support (votes) to do what they want. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by spartan max2

[spartan max2]

14 hours ago, Knob Oddy said:

Good point. Its not as if they acted in an armed rebellion. 

It will be interesting to see any evidence presented.

BTW, "I am arresting you for the future murder of Sarah Marks". Good movie,  

Believe it or not it is a crime to plot overthrowing the government. And take preparations steps for the plot.

Edited December 8, 2022 by spartan max2