[Merged] Kari Lake Files Lawsuit in Bid to Overturn Arizona Election Defeat

[Golden Duck]

1 hour ago, bmk1245 said:

If you can't manage to get ID/passport, you can't vote. Simple.

How hard is to call taxi and drive to department that issue ID/passport? Why asking ID/passport to board the plane is mandatory, and is ok, but asking ID/passport during voting is some sort of racisism, agephobia, whatever, etc? If elderly can't get ID/passport by themselves (don't have kids), I'm pretty sure social workers (or even neighbors "Hi, Maggy, I'll drive you to get/renew your ID") can help with that.

You have people looking at photo id to board a plane?

It's all done by kiosk here.  Print everything yourself put the stickers on your own bag.  Put your own bag on the belt.

Evryone has been replaced by computers at the domestic airports.

[bmk1245]

8 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

You have people looking at photo id to board a plane?

It's all done by kiosk here.  Print everything yourself put the stickers on your own bag.  Put your own bag on the belt.

Evryone has been replaced by computers at the domestic airports.

Can you board the plane with presumed identity?

[O. G. Wotasnozzle]

6 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

If you can't manage to get ID/passport, you can't vote. Simple.

How hard is to call taxi and drive to department that issue ID/passport? Why asking ID/passport to board the plane is mandatory, and is ok, but asking ID/passport during voting is some sort of racisism, agephobia, whatever, etc? If elderly can't get ID/passport by themselves (don't have kids), I'm pretty sure social workers (or even neighbors "Hi, Maggy, I'll drive you to get/renew your ID") can help with that.

I'm fine with IDs if everyone can get them without paying three digits or jumping through other hoops - AND if each state has uniform requirements. But passports cost upwards of $100 and state IDs may not be free either - they're $30 where I live. That's an impediment for poor people and in any case charging to vote is illegal in the US.

If you are in fact from Lithuania I hope you realize it's smaller than 80% of our states. Simply taking a cab or getting a social worker to transport you isn't always a reasonable option. My own state's twice as big and has only one - ONE - office per county where you can get an ID. For some counties that's a 50 mile / 80 km drive each way which is one expensive cab ride. Plus offices are only open 9-5 on weekdays which makes it really tough for someone who works and can't take time off without losing pay.

Edited December 25, 2022 by O. G. Wotasnozzle

[Gromdor]

6 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

If you can't manage to get ID/passport, you can't vote. Simple.

How hard is to call taxi and drive to department that issue ID/passport? Why asking ID/passport to board the plane is mandatory, and is ok, but asking ID/passport during voting is some sort of racisism, agephobia, whatever, etc? If elderly can't get ID/passport by themselves (don't have kids), I'm pretty sure social workers (or even neighbors "Hi, Maggy, I'll drive you to get/renew your ID") can help with that.

See that's the problem.  Our Constitution says you have the right to vote and like our gun enthusuiasts like to say- rights can't be infringed.  It's why the Poll Tax was made illegal.  You can't just make it so the poor can't vote.

And Taxis?  I live in Iowa. Taxis don't service small towns and if they do it costs $100.00s.  The poor and elderly have to travel long distances for things like photo ID.  We have literal food deserts around here:Solving food deserts in Iowa: When small towns lose grocery stores, where do residents turn? | The Gazette

[bmk1245]

1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

See that's the problem.  Our Constitution says you have the right to vote and like our gun enthusuiasts like to say- rights can't be infringed.  It's why the Poll Tax was made illegal.  You can't just make it so the poor can't vote.

And Taxis?  I live in Iowa. Taxis don't service small towns and if they do it costs $100.00s.  The poor and elderly have to travel long distances for things like photo ID.  We have literal food deserts around here:Solving food deserts in Iowa: When small towns lose grocery stores, where do residents turn? | The Gazette

$100 once in couple decades ain't that much, unless you are using taxis every day to get IDs... And again, social workers can help elderly to get IDs/passports.

As for Iowa groceries... Its a challenge, wont argue with that:

Quote

"It's a challenge, you know,” Theo Ramsey said. 'We're small, and we end up probably throwing away a higher percentage of our produce than bigger stores do, but that's just what we've got to do. We try to model everything after what can survive.

[bmk1245]

1 hour ago, O. G. Wotasnozzle said:

I'm fine with IDs if everyone can get them without paying three digits or jumping through other hoops - AND if each state has uniform requirements. But passports cost upwards of $100 and state IDs may not be free either - they're $30 where I live. That's an impediment for poor people and in any case charging to vote is illegal in the US.

If you are in fact from Lithuania I hope you realize it's smaller than 80% of our states. Simply taking a cab or getting a social worker to transport you isn't always a reasonable option. My own state's twice as big and has only one - ONE - office per county where you can get an ID. For some counties that's a 50 mile / 80 km drive each way which is one expensive cab ride. Plus offices are only open 9-5 on weekdays which makes it really tough for someone who works and can't take time off without losing pay.

Again, you don't go 50 miles and spend $100 every day. Once in couple decades driving 50 miles and spending $100 ain't that much. I spend over $100 on my mother's meds per month, and I don't complain 'bout that.

[Gromdor]

37 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

$100 once in couple decades ain't that much, unless you are using taxis every day to get IDs... And again, social workers can help elderly to get IDs/passports.

As for Iowa groceries... Its a challenge, wont argue with that:

Paying to have to vote is a Poll Tax and is illegal.  The only reason why these people would need an ID is so they can vote.  They don't catch planes or engge in activities that require one.

We don't have social workers that help people vote or get IDs.  We struggle to get social workers to stop people from killing themselves or beating their wives.  

[bmk1245]

6 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Paying to have to vote is a Poll Tax and is illegal.  The only reason why these people would need an ID is so they can vote.  They don't catch planes or engge in activities that require one.

We don't have social workers that help people vote or get IDs.  We struggle to get social workers to stop people from killing themselves or beating their wives.  

OK, what then the purpose of that kind of social workers?

PS why eight year olds can't vote? Aren't they citizen? F it, why five year olds can't vote?

[+Razman]

1 hour ago, bmk1245 said:

OK, what then the purpose of that kind of social workers?

PS why eight year olds can't vote? Aren't they citizen? F it, why five year olds can't vote?

Cause they might vote for Ronald Mcdonald or Barney , or the Power Rangers or something.

[Gromdor]

1 hour ago, bmk1245 said:

OK, what then the purpose of that kind of social workers?

PS why eight year olds can't vote? Aren't they citizen? F it, why five year olds can't vote?

The laws/amendments to the Constitution.  Women used to not be able to vote here in the United States..

Originally it was only "Men of property and standing."

There have been people who want to go back to that method- not necessarily banning women from voting, but letting it be only one vote per household of property owners.  No renters and all that stuff.

 

[Buzz_Light_Year]

2 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Paying to have to vote is a Poll Tax and is illegal.  The only reason why these people would need an ID is so they can vote.  They don't catch planes or engge in activities that require one.

We don't have social workers that help people vote or get IDs.  We struggle to get social workers to stop people from killing themselves or beating their wives.  

Well that's a load of BS.

If these people that are truly poor and don't have an ID they can't get government help as in welfare and Social Security (takes at least 3 forms of ID just to apply for SSN). Try cashing a check, buying anything that requires ID and ad nauseum. Utilities??? ID is required just to have electricity, water and heat whether you get it from the landlord or through your own account.

Having an ID is not a poll tax for anything as it is a requirement just to get by on a day to day existence. Yeah one may not need an ID for weeks but eventually it will be required of you.

 

[Gromdor]

14 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Well that's a load of BS.

If these people that are truly poor and don't have an ID they can't get government help as in welfare and Social Security (takes at least 3 forms of ID just to apply for SSN). Try cashing a check, buying anything that requires ID and ad nauseum. Utilities??? ID is required just to have electricity, water and heat whether you get it from the landlord or through your own account.

Having an ID is not a poll tax for anything as it is a requirement just to get by on a day to day existence. Yeah one may not need an ID for weeks but eventually it will be required of you.

 

Perhaps in your state.  Most states do not require a photo ID to get welfare.  Nor is a photo ID required for applying for social security: Documents Needed to Apply for Social Security - SmartAsset

Yes, you need stuff like your birth certificate, social security card, etc.  But all those are government provided. 

Nor is photo ID required to get utilities.

11% of Americans don't have a picture ID: FACT CHECK: Do Millions Of Americans Not Have Government Photo ID? | Check Your Fact

Edit to add: What state do you live in btw?  I am curious to look up the local laws there.  

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Gromdor

[jmccr8]

14 hours ago, Gromdor said:

It was pride that did my aunt and uncle in.  They lived on an acreage in a house that was as old as they were.  Old houses need repairs and repairs cost more than Social Security. So my uncle got a job delivering cafeteria food to the local school districts.  Old people shouldn't be lifting heavy boxes.  Two of his vertebrae in his spine disintegrated and he woke up one morning unable to walk.  He's gotten surgery since then and can pull himself along in a walker but driving was out. That was back in his early 60's.  His wafe had cancer but she refused treatment because they couldn't afford it, didn't want to beg rides,  and she didn't like how chemo made her feel the last time.  Needless to say she ended up dying from it.  They were so far in debt that they were using their credit cards to pay off the interest they accrued for the month.  They used to have two cars but ended up selling both for food money. Their finance plan was to just die.  It worked for the aunt but the disabled uncle was left holding the bag.  Sad story, but hardly unique here in America.

As for the 11% number- That is the number of people in the US who don't have photo IDs.  Not just the elderly.  

Regarding the noodles-  you truly splurge.  The fellow I know couldn't afford eggs but would steal hot sauce to put in it when I felt pity for him and fed him lunch at a fast food restaraunt.  But eating 15 cent ramen noodles every meal, every day, is not something I could do.   I watched him eat nothing but frozen popsicles for a week.  He lost 10 pounds.  Now I am kind of curious whatever happened to him.  Hmm.. A quick google check finds him living in an apartment down in Des Moines.  No wife or kids after all these years either.  If he is the same as before, he should have five or so roomates so they can afford rent.

Don't get me wrong- I learned from all these experiences.  I saved, I invested, and I am pretty set to live comfortably in my retirement.  But all that is because I have personally witnessed how pitiful and hopeless the cricumstances some people are in and I shake my head at those who think nothing bad will ever happen to them to ruin their lives like it has the these people.

Hi Gromdor

Thanks for explaining for me.

I am 68 and still work in construction on my own and have been fortunate to have had good health although I did spend 18 years fighting to get back surgery during the 80s and 90s and when I got it it made a big difference in life for me. I worked in construction the whole time that I was fighting for it so do understand the difficulty.

Like I said I am not rich but am comfortable and do not borrow or lend money so budget and build instead. I don't hire contractors because that is what I do for a living so take care of projects myself, I also do my own work on vehicles so that saves me a lot of cost and built most of the vehicles I have owned for most of my life so I don't make payments and own everything I have.

Things are changing though as over the last couple of years have gained favor with a hotel chain that gives me a fair bit of well paid work that I think is actually light duty compared to what I usually do and am not complaining.

I eat noodles with eggs for breakfast as I don't eat cereal but the rest of my meals are meat and potato or rice, I keep my cupboards, fridge and freezer full and never go without having a meal unless I just don't feel like eating and skip one. I never thought I would live to see 30 and money was easy and meant little to me and it wasn't until late 30s that I concluded that nothing was going to kill me so became more moderate about what I spent money on and started using it differently.

[+Link of Hyrule]

How many US states actually have ID requirements that force people to pay for a licence in order to vote? If there is even one,  I don't know of it.  But if it's there,  I will agree that this is a form of vote suppression,  and whichever State has this rule should abolish it immediately.  If they have Photo ID rules for elections and this ID is free, or they have alternatives (eg, in Georgia,  you can use your social security number if you don't have a licence, or even a utilities bill will work for ID), then that's not any kind of voter suppression and is, in my opinion, entirely acceptable (maybe even preferable). 

[Gromdor]

5 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

How many US states actually have ID requirements that force people to pay for a licence in order to vote? If there is even one,  I don't know of it.  But if it's there,  I will agree that this is a form of vote suppression,  and whichever State has this rule should abolish it immediately.  If they have Photo ID rules for elections and this ID is free, or they have alternatives (eg, in Georgia,  you can use your social security number if you don't have a licence, or even a utilities bill will work for ID), then that's not any kind of voter suppression and is, in my opinion, entirely acceptable (maybe even preferable). 

Well, none.  It would be illegal.  The states that do charge for IDs don't have photo ID rules.  That's why voter ID laws vary from state to state.

That's the crux of the issue.  People want to force voter ID rules on these states but don't want to figure out how to pay for it and further complain that because they don't have it, their elections are somehow invalid or tainted.

[+Link of Hyrule]

5 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Well, none.  It would be illegal.  The states that do charge for IDs don't have photo ID rules.  That's why voter ID laws vary from state to state.

That's the crux of the issue.  People want to force voter ID rules on these states but don't want to figure out how to pay for it and further complain that because they don't have it, their elections are somehow invalid or tainted.

So what's the argument about, then? We agree that forcing people to pay for ID is voter suppression,  and lo and behold there are no States that force people to pay for ID to vote! I'm unaware of any Republican push to change this and force voters to pay for ID in order to vote!

Talk about mountains out of mole hills

Edited December 25, 2022 by Paranoid Android

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, Paranoid Android said:

So what's the argument about, then? We agree that forcing people to pay for ID is voter suppression,  and lo and behold there are no States that force people to pay for ID to vote! I'm unaware of any Republican push to change this and force voters to pay for ID in order to vote!

Talk about mountains out of mole hills

Sir Wearer of Hats comment  #271 was what all started it.  I was originally talking about online voting.

[Grim Reaper 6]

3 hours ago, razman said:

Cause they might vote for Ronald Mcdonald or Barney , or the Power Rangers or something.

Well, I wouldn't vote for your choices, but they could be possible better than the current Idiot or the fricken criminal and White Nationalist / Supremist he replaced. In 2024, there will be w New candidate who I am going to vote for who thinks both the Republican and Democratic Parties are broken and only serve their personal self-interests.

The gentleman before is who I will vote and campaign for!

 

[O. G. Wotasnozzle]

6 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

Again, you don't go 50 miles and spend $100 every day. Once in couple decades driving 50 miles and spending $100 ain't that much. I spend over $100 on my mother's meds per month, and I don't complain 'bout that.

It doesn't matter if it's a dollar every half-century. Poll taxes in any guise are illegal, full stop. And at least in my backwards state IDs and DLs expire every FOUR years so it's a lot more time and $$$ than you keep insisting.

If you don't care for the laws come to the US (yeah, right), become a citizen, and work to change the laws to your liking.

Or just maybe you could put your efforts into making sure anyone who meets the legal criteria can get a voter ID without an extra charge and without hoop-jumping, no matter which state they live in. But that might let the, uh, "wrong" people vote ... yes?

[O. G. Wotasnozzle]

9 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

So what's the argument about, then? We agree that forcing people to pay for ID is voter suppression,  and lo and behold there are no States that force people to pay for ID to vote! I'm unaware of any Republican push to change this and force voters to pay for ID in order to vote!

Talk about mountains out of mole hills

It's not just about paying or not paying, it's about the effort needed to get an ID. FWIW, till its law was thrown out in court my state did require people without DLs or passports to pay for its special non-driver voter IDs. But even if the IDs were free there can still be significant obstacles. The state's maybe 2/3 rural with only one ID office per county. They're only open 9 to 5 on weekdays, often with long waits. People whose jobs don't offer time off or who have limited travel options are scrued.

[+Link of Hyrule]

7 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Sir Wearer of Hats comment  #271 was what all started it.  I was originally talking about online voting.

And I agree with what Sir Hats said!

The thing is,  the politicians on the left claim that requiring ID  even when free,  is voter suppression. The main stream left wing media then repeats it as fact and now most people think it's true. As I'm writing this,  Georgia is springing to mind (the fake outrage literally got so bad that Major League Baseball moved their All-Stars game away to a different city in protest, and if you see the video i recently posted,  you'll see how that was nonsense). 

I agree with you thst online voting could be workable,  if there's a fool proof way of identifying ballots via this method.  It will take a mammoth effort to change the laws to allow e-voting, but block chain tech should make it possible. Nevertheless,  such voting requires such things as internet and computers and computer literacy skills. Which are all in far smaller supplies in poverty-stricken communities, and minorities such as African Americans are disproportionately represented in such communities.

For this reason the arguments about voter ID laws seem to be interrelated. 

[Gromdor]

7 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

And I agree with what Sir Hats said!

The thing is,  the politicians on the left claim that requiring ID  even when free,  is voter suppression. The main stream left wing media then repeats it as fact and now most people think it's true. As I'm writing this,  Georgia is springing to mind (the fake outrage literally got so bad that Major League Baseball moved their All-Stars game away to a different city in protest, and if you see the video i recently posted,  you'll see how that was nonsense). 

I agree with you thst online voting could be workable,  if there's a fool proof way of identifying ballots via this method.  It will take a mammoth effort to change the laws to allow e-voting, but block chain tech should make it possible. Nevertheless,  such voting requires such things as internet and computers and computer literacy skills. Which are all in far smaller supplies in poverty-stricken communities, and minorities such as African Americans are disproportionately represented in such communities.

For this reason the arguments about voter ID laws seem to be interrelated. 

Eh, it's the same as the politicans on the right claiming that it is to prevent voter fraud when it does little to nothing to that effect (as witnessed by all the fraud claims from the last two elections in states with voter ID laws.)

They know it does nothing but puts barriers on the poor.  It's just a talking point to stir dissent.

[Grim Reaper 6]

6 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

So what's the argument about, then? We agree that forcing people to pay for ID is voter suppression,  and lo and behold there are no States that force people to pay for ID to vote! I'm unaware of any Republican push to change this and force voters to pay for ID in order to vote!

Talk about mountains out of mole hills

No, I agree the Republicans are not pushing to force voters to pay for an ID, however they are pushing not allow people to vote without one, kind of a forced double standard isn't it. The easiest solution to the voter ID issue is explained in the Article below, its being adopted by states that recently adopted voter ID laws. Its, a simple fix that will solve the problem that is a mole hill because of foolish political rhetoric by both Parties is becoming an unnecessary Mountain. 

States Dispute Criticism of New Voter Laws, Move to Offer Photo ID Free of Charge:States Dispute Criticism of New Voter Laws, Move to Offer Photo ID Free of Charge | Fox News

3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Perhaps in your state.  Most states do not require a photo ID to get welfare.  Nor is a photo ID required for applying for social security: Documents Needed to Apply for Social Security - SmartAsset

Yes, you need stuff like your birth certificate, social security card, etc.  But all those are government provided. 

Nor is photo ID required to get utilities.

11% of Americans don't have a picture ID: FACT CHECK: Do Millions Of Americans Not Have Government Photo ID? | Check Your Fact

Edit to add: What state do you live in btw?  I am curious to look up the local laws there.  

 

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

6 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

Again, you don't go 50 miles and spend $100 every day. Once in couple decades driving 50 miles and spending $100 ain't that much. I spend over $100 on my mother's meds per month, and I don't complain 'bout that.

I frequently drive 50 or more miles and spend at least $100 or more around 20 times a month for enjoyment alone, but I am 64 years young maybe that's why it seems normal to me. However, overall your point you point is very valid and I agree with you!

[the13bats]

6 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

I frequently drive 50 or more miles and spend at least $100 or more around 20 times a month for enjoyment alone, but I am 64 years young maybe that's why it seems normal to me. However, overall your point you point is very valid and I agree with you!

And you earned it !