Irmgard Furchner: Nazi typist found guilty of complicity in 10,500 murders

[Still Waters]

A former secretary who worked for the commander of a Nazi concentration camp has been convicted of complicity in the murders of more than 10,500 people.

Irmgard Furchner, 97, was taken on as a teenaged shorthand typist at Stutthof and worked there from 1943 to 1945.

Furchner, the first woman to be tried for Nazi crimes in decades, was given a two-year suspended jail term.

Although she was a civilian worker, the judge agreed she was fully aware of what was going on at the camp.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64036465

Related:

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/343691-nazi-camp-secretary-charged-with-complicity/

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/351090-ex-concentration-camp-secretary-tries-to-flee/

[+OverSword]

I'm not trying to defend a person who as a brainwashed and indoctrinated child nazi in WWII Germany, worked in an office at a concentration camp but I'm curious, at this point close to 80 years later what did this trial accomplish?  Found complicit in the murder of over 10,000 people and receives a suspended sentence?  What was the point?  Why didn't they try her in the 1940's or 50's?  

[Knob Oddy]

18 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I'm not trying to defend a person who as a brainwashed and indoctrinated child nazi in WWII Germany, worked in an office at a concentration camp but I'm curious, at this point close to 80 years later what did this trial accomplish?  Found complicit in the murder of over 10,000 people and receives a suspended sentence?  What was the point?  Why didn't they try her in the 1940's or 50's?  

Well, a suspended sentence is a good motivator not to do it again 

[+susieice]

Why charge her at the age of 97? I agree with OverSword. 

[el midgetron]

At 97 she has a story to tell and this isn’t it, 

[itsnotoutthere]

Ridiculous.

"Although she was a civilian worker, the judge agreed she was fully aware of what was going on at the camp." Yes and probably sh**ing herself that if she didn't do what she was told, she'd be next.

By that logic then, so did every single one of the German soldiers that shot and killed an allied troop did as well, should we track every single one of them down? After all.....they were all only following orders. The people to go after are the ones that gave the orders.

Edited December 21, 2022 by itsnotoutthere

[pellinore]

4 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Ridiculous.

"Although she was a civilian worker, the judge agreed she was fully aware of what was going on at the camp."

By that logic then, so did every single one of the German soldiers that shot and killed an allied troop did as well, should we track every single one of them down? After all.....they were all only following orders.

You are comparing completely different organisations. The Wehrmacht was quite separate from the SS, and considered themselves decent military men, and largely were. The Deathshead SS knew what they were doing and signed up for it.

[pellinore]

11 hours ago, susieice said:

Why charge her at the age of 97? I agree with OverSword. 

So does managing to evade justice for long enough make someone exempt from law? Or is it just that after a certain age people can no longer be held criminally responsible?

[itsnotoutthere]

6 minutes ago, pellinore said:

You are comparing completely different organisations. The Wehrmacht was quite separate from the SS, and considered themselves decent military men, and largely were. The Deathshead SS knew what they were doing and signed up for it.

They all knew what they were doing. Have you not seen footage of German civilian crowds cheering on their conquering soldiers when they were 'winning'?

Edited December 21, 2022 by itsnotoutthere

[pellinore]

17 hours ago, OverSword said:

I'm not trying to defend a person who as a brainwashed and indoctrinated child nazi in WWII Germany, worked in an office at a concentration camp but I'm curious, at this point close to 80 years later what did this trial accomplish?  Found complicit in the murder of over 10,000 people and receives a suspended sentence?  What was the point?  Why didn't they try her in the 1940's or 50's?  

I don't know why they didn't try her earlier, but the fact they didn't doesn't mean she is now automatically innocent. And a suspended sentence is not pointless, it shows she was found guilty. Any imprisonment would probably be a pointless life sentence.

Edited December 21, 2022 by pellinore

[itsnotoutthere]

13 minutes ago, pellinore said:

So does managing to evade justice for long enough make someone exempt from law? Or is it just that after a certain age people can no longer be held criminally responsible?

She was a teenage shorthand typist. I'm sure there are members of the German parliament whos parents did far far worse things during the war.

[pellinore]

48 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

They all knew what they were doing. Have you not seen footage of German civilian crowds cheering on their conquering soldiers when they were 'winning'?

You do know that the German Army and the SS were separate organisations? The Army (and the Kreigsmarine and Luftwaffe) were the standing forces. The SS was formed by the Nazi Party as a political army to act as bodyguards and ensure civil order. Though to be fair, the Army was probably a lot more complicit in the war crimes that they made out after the war. I'm also sure many of the civilian population knew or suspected what was going on, but that is a lot different from actually taking an active part in the activities of the camps.

[pellinore]

47 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

She was a teenage shorthand typist. I'm sure there are members of the German parliament whos parents did far far worse things during the war.

She worked in a camp. She cannot possibly have not known what was going on in there. I agree many people got away scot free, but also many were summarily executed at the time of liberation, and many were hanged after Nuremberg. The ones who evaded justice probably had money or political clout, or were scientists like von Braun who had valuable knowledge.

Edited December 21, 2022 by pellinore

[Myles]

I would have liked to see her spend a bit of time in prison.

[+susieice]

4 hours ago, pellinore said:

So does managing to evade justice for long enough make someone exempt from law? Or is it just that after a certain age people can no longer be held criminally responsible?

No. But what's the point of prosecuting her now? So she's guilty of being a young secretary who was probably in fear for herself and her family. Do you think the SS and the Gestapo didn't turn on Germans who said something against the regime. They would have gone to the gas chamber as fast as anyone else. The story she has to tell is far more important than this was.

[+OverSword]

5 hours ago, pellinore said:

I don't know why they didn't try her earlier, but the fact they didn't doesn't mean she is now automatically innocent. And a suspended sentence is not pointless, it shows she was found guilty. Any imprisonment would probably be a pointless life sentence.

And for aiding in the murder of 10.5k people doesn’t deserve a life sentence?? 

[pellinore]

25 minutes ago, OverSword said:

And for aiding in the murder of 10.5k people doesn’t deserve a life sentence?? 

Ordinarily, it deserves the death penalty. Josef Schuetz (convicted of killing 3.5k people in Sachsenhausen) was given 5 years last June when he was aged 101 years. I can't see that he served any jail time. Do you think there would be any point? I'm not sure. He already had had a long life he denied thousands of others, what punishment would fit his crime now?  

[+OverSword]

13 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Ordinarily, it deserves the death penalty. Josef Schuetz (convicted of killing 3.5k people in Sachsenhausen) was given 5 years last June when he was aged 101 years. I can't see that he served any jail time. Do you think there would be any point? I'm not sure. He already had had a long life he denied thousands of others, what punishment would fit his crime now?  

My POV is that this was a show trial for the insane PC crowd and that if she really committed atrocities she would have been charged decades ago.  As pointed out in several above posts she was a teenager working as a typist in an office and had every reason to fear if she had spoken out. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by OverSword

[itsnotoutthere]

50 minutes ago, OverSword said:

My POV is that this was a show trial for the insane PC crowd and that if she really committed atrocities she would have been charged decades ago.  As pointed out in several above posts she was a teenager working as a typist in an office and had every reason to fear if she had spoken out. 

That occurred to me as well. Interesting timing following on from the news a week or so ago about a plot by shadowy far right extremists to overthrow the German government. Perhaps this was done to show the rest of the world that they're trying hard to put their nazi past behind them.

[+OverSword]

23 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

That occurred to me as well. Interesting timing following on from the news a week or so ago about a plot by shadowy far right extremists to overthrow the German government. Perhaps this was done to show the rest of the world that they're trying hard to put their nazi past behind them.

Both this trial and far right movements in Germany predate the alleged attempted overthrow of the German government but I agree it's all under the same umbrella.

[odas]

1 hour ago, itsnotoutthere said:

That occurred to me as well. Interesting timing following on from the news a week or so ago about a plot by shadowy far right extremists to overthrow the German government. Perhaps this was done to show the rest of the world that they're trying hard to put their nazi past behind them.

Regardles of what one thinks about why and how...if a person was complicit in a murder, especially if complicit in an extermination of a whole people like the holocaust, I could not give a rats butt about how old the complice was at the time and how old this person is now. She had enough time to come forward, to explain why, to show remorse, to face the consequences...she opted not to.

The problem is that we see her now as a 97 year old. But would we feel "sorry" if she was half that age for the same crimes?

[+susieice]

I don't feel sorry for her now. I just know that the judgement and shame she faced for the rest of her life from her children and grandchildren was a powerful thing. A lot more than anything I'd have to say. I don't see the point in locking her up at 97 but she's been judged guilty so that should end it now.

[+Hammerclaw]

Will they go after the dishwashers next? This wasn't justice, it was to quench the insatiable, maniacal thirst for vengeance. 

[LadyPhoenix]

This is posturing, and nothing more.  A typist isn't "complicit" in the activities of the camp, simply by being there.  What utter BS!  She issued no orders, she took no actions against anyone; she simply did secretarial work.  What was she supposed to do, go out and protest and die herself?  Being there and knowing doesn't make her guilty.  She could stop nothing.  If we don't hold family members of killers guilty, why would anyone find her guilty? 

[Cookie Monster]

On 12/20/2022 at 4:09 PM, Still Waters said:

A former secretary who worked for the commander of a Nazi concentration camp has been convicted of complicity in the murders of more than 10,500 people.

Irmgard Furchner, 97, was taken on as a teenaged shorthand typist at Stutthof and worked there from 1943 to 1945.

Furchner, the first woman to be tried for Nazi crimes in decades, was given a two-year suspended jail term.

Although she was a civilian worker, the judge agreed she was fully aware of what was going on at the camp.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64036465

Related:

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/343691-nazi-camp-secretary-charged-with-complicity/

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/351090-ex-concentration-camp-secretary-tries-to-flee/

I`m against these trials.

Its not leaders or senior military officers, it ordinary rank and file.