British Woman Arrested for Praying Silently outside Abortion Clinic

[el midgetron]

A pro-life woman was arrested earlier this month for silently praying outside an abortion clinic in Birmingham, U.K. on the grounds that she had breached a speech buffer zone established by the local city council.

Police told Isabel Vaughan-Spruce that she would be taken into custody for violating a Public Space Protection Order. Video footage of the arrest was captured by AllThingsProLife and circulated by Alliance Defending Freedom, which is hosting a fundraiser for Vaughan-Spruce’s legal defense.
 

https://news.yahoo.com/british-woman-arrested-praying-silently-200714572.html
 

 

 

 

 

 

[Piney]

"Alliance Defending Freedom" also known as the "Alliance to Push The Evangelical Facist Agenda and Stomp Non-Christian's Rights".

Also known as a "hate group"

She shouldn't be there. Lock her up.

[pellinore]

2 hours ago, el midgetron said:

A pro-life woman was arrested earlier this month for silently praying outside an abortion clinic in Birmingham, U.K. on the grounds that she had breached a speech buffer zone established by the local city council.

Good.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

Judging from the replies it's obvious that people don't recognize the long term ramifications of this type of governmental behavior.

[Tatetopa]

4 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Judging from the replies it's obvious that people don't recognize the long term ramifications of this type of governmental behavior.

Possibly true.  Although there is an equal danger to citizen's rights if the government ignores those who defy current laws and conventions. It then appears to be special treatment for a favored group.

 

[Buzz_Light_Year]

11 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Possibly true.  Although there is an equal danger to citizen's rights if the government ignores those who defy current laws and conventions. It then appears to be special treatment for a favored group.

 

Quote

When officers asked whether she was part of a protest, she replied “no.” They then asked if she was praying, to which she said she could be doing so “in my head.” Police then searched her, and patted down her hair, before handcuffing her and escorting her to the station.

So you're good with someone being arrested for what they were thinking.

[Tatetopa]

23 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

So you're good with someone being arrested for what they were thinking.

Nope not at all. Our thoughts are our own and should be as free as the birds.  It would be the trespassing or confrontational part that would cause problems.  Silent prayer can be done in a shopping mall, in a car, at home or even while walking down the street.  Choosing an abortion clinic for a prayer sight may not be a desire to share thoughts with God, but to shame or influence people seeking their services. 

I have beliefs that I keep and strive to follow, and they are my relationship with the spiritual.  I do not impose my standards on others.   I am not a big fan of know-it-all missionaries and  holier than thou proselytizers whether they show up on my front porch or confront me in the street. 

 

[+Desertrat56]

1 hour ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Judging from the replies it's obvious that people don't recognize the long term ramifications of this type of governmental behavior.

No, because we recognize the long term ramifications of the behavior of the groups perpetrating the hate.   It is time to put a stop to all of them and the government is supposed to protect everyone's rights.  So the woman could have stepped a few feet back to have her prayers.  This is  a publicity stunt.

[+joc]

The woman in the video, Isabel Vaughan Spruce, was not arrested for silently praying. She was arrested for breaking a temporary Public Space Protection Order on four separate occasions which was used to ban protests outside of an abortion clinic due to safety concerns.

[+joc]

2 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Judging from the replies it's obvious that people don't recognize the long term ramifications of this type of governmental behavior.

What long term ramifications does enforcing trespass laws have?  It isn't 'governmental behaviour'.  She steadfastly refused to obey the law on 4 separate occasions...but I love how the headlines can just put out a bald faced lie.  If you lie to the FBI it's a federal crime.  But if you lie otherwise...eh...not so much anything.  Even if it incites riots.  

[Buzz_Light_Year]

39 minutes ago, joc said:

What long term ramifications does enforcing trespass laws have?  It isn't 'governmental behaviour'.  She steadfastly refused to obey the law on 4 separate occasions...but I love how the headlines can just put out a bald faced lie.  If you lie to the FBI it's a federal crime.  But if you lie otherwise...eh...not so much anything.  Even if it incites riots.  

That's not what it says....

Quote

Vaughan-Spruce was subsequently charged last week with four counts of failing to comply with a Public Space Protection Order, which prohibits certain activities that foster “anti-social behaviour,” according to the policy. The directive is supposed to allow local authorities to “counter unreasonable and persistent behaviour that affects the quality of life of its residents,” though it remains unclear which specific behaviors violate the law.

Quote

What long term ramifications does enforcing trespass laws have?

She was arrested for what she might be thinking. She was asked if she was part of the protest and she said NO and then she was asked if she was praying and she said she could be. SO WHAT was she arrested for? Obviously she wasn't articulating anything prohibited and also denied as being a participate in a protest. SO WHAT was she arrested for? Being in proximity to a abortion clinic all the while being on a public sidewalk? And oh goodness she was having thoughts.....................

She was arrested for what she might be thinking and I for one find that a bit troubling.

Excuse me if I assumed that the issue was obvious and I guess it just isn't obvious to some.

[+joc]

55 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

That's not what it says....

She was arrested for what she might be thinking. She was asked if she was part of the protest and she said NO and then she was asked if she was praying and she said she could be. SO WHAT was she arrested for? Obviously she wasn't articulating anything prohibited and also denied as being a participate in a protest. SO WHAT was she arrested for? Being in proximity to a abortion clinic all the while being on a public sidewalk? And oh goodness she was having thoughts.....................

She was arrested for what she might be thinking and I for one find that a bit troubling.

Excuse me if I assumed that the issue was obvious and I guess it just isn't obvious to some.

She was not arrested for 'praying silently' or for 'thinking'.  She was arrested, pure and simple, because she was there!  

The PSPO order that Vaughan-Spruce allegedly broke was imposed by the Birmingham City Council on September 7, outlawing all abortion demonstrations outside the clinic. When she stood in front of the building by herself, Vaughan-Spruce reportedly did not carry a poster, candles for a vigil, or graphic pictures that might be deemed disturbing to local residents, according to the video. Vaughan-Spruce is scheduled to appear at Birmingham Magistrates Court on February 2, 2023.

The question then is:  Why was she there?  Obviously  she was there because she was 'protesting'...albeit silently or not.  What's more is she had been asked to leave and not do that several times before.  She continued to do it and so...they said, Screw it!  and arrested her.  The only thing that is obvious in the entire story is that the headline is a bald faced lie.  Now, the abortion issue is not my fight.  If it's legal, it's legal.  If it's illegal, it's illegal.  On the other side of the coin, If her standing there is legal then more power to her.  It her standing there is illegal...which it was...then she is breaking the law.  That's all.  It is really cut and dried.

And...again...what was she doing on a Side Walk outside the abortion clinic?  Was she just 'walking' down the side walk?  No!  She was standing on the side walk...not walking on the side walk...and it is a side 'walk'...basically she was loitering and she knew it.

Edited December 23, 2022 by joc

[Alpha_Q]

This article p***es me off so much.

When I was a University student I joined 2 separate pro-life groups (but not at the same time). I would like to consider myself pro-life as I simply do not like the idea of abortions. I was psyched, thinking that these groups would promote sexual education and prevent unwanted pregnancies, you know, the type of pregnancies that result in abortions. Nope, they don't effen care. Even now, they don't give a single F as to why we have unwanted pregnancies and they will not do anything to supply young people, and especially young women, with education or birth control alternatives.

Back then the fight was over pro-life's right to show graphic images of abortions on campus. It became a fight of free speech and it was completely lost on the pro-life movement here that they were no longer arguing about the rights of the unborn. They completely lost their own message. Nothing has changed. This woman's arrest will result in arguments about free speech, and the plight of the unborn will be put on the back-burner.

When I went to some of the pro-life protests at the local clinic, the pro-lifers were shouting, spitting... It was horrible. The reason they make these zones around clinics like this is so people who are in the middle of probably the most difficult decision of their lives don't have to put up with a group judging them.

As for the silent-prayer - she was obviously there to get arrested, and get arrested on film. Anyone who thinks she was arrested for praying silently is naïve at best. I guess this is just a case of mainstream conservative media leading its sheeple by the nose.

 

[+Desertrat56]

33 minutes ago, Alpha_Q said:

This article p***es me off so much.

When I was a University student I joined 2 separate pro-life groups (but not at the same time). I would like to consider myself pro-life as I simply do not like the idea of abortions. I was psyched, thinking that these groups would promote sexual education and prevent unwanted pregnancies, you know, the type of pregnancies that result in abortions. Nope, they don't effen care. Even now, they don't give a single F as to why we have unwanted pregnancies and they will not do anything to supply young people, and especially young women, with education or birth control alternatives.

Back then the fight was over pro-life's right to show graphic images of abortions on campus. It became a fight of free speech and it was completely lost on the pro-life movement here that they were no longer arguing about the rights of the unborn. They completely lost their own message. Nothing has changed. This woman's arrest will result in arguments about free speech, and the plight of the unborn will be put on the back-burner.

When I went to some of the pro-life protests at the local clinic, the pro-lifers were shouting, spitting... It was horrible. The reason they make these zones around clinics like this is so people who are in the middle of probably the most difficult decision of their lives don't have to put up with a group judging them.

As for the silent-prayer - she was obviously there to get arrested, and get arrested on film. Anyone who thinks she was arrested for praying silently is naïve at best. I guess this is just a case of mainstream conservative media leading its sheeple by the nose.

 

I remember in the 80's in the small town I lived in, the planned parenthood office got picketed once a month by people who showed up in cadalacs  and other expensive vehicles, wearing fur coats to harrass the workers and clients that used that office.  It was the only office in town and it never had a doctor or provided anyone with abortions, it was a health care facility for women who had no resources to get the help with various medical issues that usually a gynocologist would provide, and to provide exactly what you described as help for teenagers and women in general with birth control, education, etc.   Yet there were these furred women in expensive cars yelling and harrassing people and then I suppose they all met at Denny's afterwards to gloat about how righteous they were.   just attention *****s.    It got so that someone would alert the office what day they  planned and the office would be closed that day.   The really stupid thing was, the weather never required a fur coat, it was the desert and the only time you need a fur coat that far south is at 1 AM in the winter if you have to be outside (maybe on a cold year).

Edited December 24, 2022 by Desertrat56

[Occupational Hubris]

4 hours ago, joc said:

The woman in the video, Isabel Vaughan Spruce, was not arrested for silently praying. She was arrested for breaking a temporary Public Space Protection Order on four separate occasions which was used to ban protests outside of an abortion clinic due to safety concerns.

Don't let the truth spoil those up on their high horses

[Occupational Hubris]

1 hour ago, Alpha_Q said:

 

When I was a University student I joined 2 separate pro-life groups (but not at the same time). I would like to consider myself pro-life as I simply do not like the idea of abortions. I was psyched, thinking that these groups would promote sexual education and prevent unwanted pregnancies, you know, the type of pregnancies that result in abortions. Nope, they don't effen care. Even now, they don't give a single F as to why we have unwanted pregnancies and they will not do anything to supply young people, and especially young women, with education or birth control alternatives.

 

 

This is actual what pro-choice people promote. 

The pro-life pro-choice terms are a deliberate choice meant to obfuscate

[+joc]

I think the whole Pro-life debate comes really from a religious perspective.  It isn't about the actual fetus..it isn't about the actual baby...it is more about the belief that God created the baby in the womb and what God hath joined together let not man put asunder. 

What would the world look like today, if Mary had aborted Jesus?  No Crusades for one...no Vatican or Pope for another...and what of the Monarchy of England? What would the world look like? Merry Christmas.

[Occupational Hubris]

15 minutes ago, joc said:

I think the whole Pro-life debate comes really from a religious perspective.  It isn't about the actual fetus..it isn't about the actual baby...it is more about the belief that God created the baby in the womb and what God hath joined together let not man put asunder. 

 

That's exactly what it's about. If you ask any one of these pro-lifers to adopt, they say no. Ask them to even vote for basic services to help pregnant women, single mothers, it's a no. You can be damn sure that if their daughter get pregnant or they do, it's quite okay for m them to have an abortion. 

It's all about social grandstanding in their little religious communties. Disgusting human beings

[acidhead]

10 hours ago, Piney said:

"Alliance Defending Freedom" also known as the "Alliance to Push The Evangelical Facist Agenda and Stomp Non-Christian's Rights".

Also known as a "hate group"

She shouldn't be there. Lock her up.

Damn! That's harsh man!   

A lone unarmed except her words woman is such an extreme threat she should be imprisoned.  

Blasphemy!!! They screamed!!! 

Rather fascisty to be honest

Edited December 24, 2022 by acidhead

[Alpha_Q]

1 hour ago, Occupational Hubris said:

This is actual what pro-choice people promote. 

The pro-life pro-choice terms are a deliberate choice meant to obfuscate

Yeah, I agree with your first sentence, well, both, actually. I had a rather long paragraph in my initial post that I removed in order to keep it short - politically, I've migrated to pro-choice as they push for contraception and education, whereas the pro-life movement, as has been stated in this thread, defers to that brand of religious conservatism that refuses to acknoweldge human sexuality.

As for your second sentence, I'm reminded of the comedian Lewis Black's skit on abortion, where he talks about the late 60s terms being 'pro-abortion' and 'anti-abortion,' and now the terms are 'pro-choice' and 'pro-life' and in that 50 plus years of debate, that's all they've managed to accomplish.

[Occupational Hubris]

8 minutes ago, Alpha_Q said:

Yeah, I agree with your first sentence, well, both, actually. I had a rather long paragraph in my initial post that I removed in order to keep it short - politically, I've migrated to pro-choice as they push for contraception and education, whereas the pro-life movement, as has been stated in this thread, defers to that brand of religious conservatism that refuses to acknoweldge human sexuality.

As for your second sentence, I'm reminded of the comedian Lewis Black's skit on abortion, where he talks about the late 60s terms being 'pro-abortion' and 'anti-abortion,' and now the terms are 'pro-choice' and 'pro-life' and in that 50 plus years of debate, that's all they've managed to accomplish.

It should be "religious beliefs that i want to force on others" and "individuals are able to decide what healthcare options are best for themselves"

[Dejarma]

it's funny (well not funny, just a figure of speech as such) how the police get involved with something like this yet they fail to sort out/ help a war veteran dying of cancer constantly harassed by local jobs for years who eventually gets beaten to death by them in his own home!!?!?

[Piney]

6 hours ago, acidhead said:

Damn! That's harsh man!   

A lone unarmed except her words woman is such an extreme threat she should be imprisoned.  

Blasphemy!!! They screamed!!! 

Rather fascisty to be honest

Thank the protesters who want to scream, throw things and attack people.

[Golden Duck]

14 hours ago, joc said:

The woman in the video, Isabel Vaughan Spruce, was not arrested for silently praying. She was arrested for breaking a temporary Public Space Protection Order on four separate occasions which was used to ban protests outside of an abortion clinic due to safety concerns.

Ahhh...the added context.  A PSPO.  So what is the nuisance behaviour that the Public Space needed protection from?

[Golden Duck]

9 hours ago, Occupational Hubris said:

That's exactly what it's about. If you ask any one of these pro-lifers to adopt, they say no. Ask them to even vote for basic services to help pregnant women, single mothers, it's a no. You can be damn sure that if their daughter get pregnant or they do, it's quite okay for m them to have an abortion. 

It's all about social grandstanding in their little religious communties. Disgusting human beings

That's not true.