Bye-bye, baby': Experts affirmatively conclude 'yes, it's happening' — Trump is getting indicted

[MGB]

On 12/28/2022 at 12:50 AM, and-then said:

Only a fool would look at all of the contortions the Dems have gone through and expect there NOT TO BE an indictment.  I can give a further prediction - he will be tried in DC and whoever the judge is, will adamantly refuse him a change of venue.  IOW, he WILL be convicted.  This is where it becomes quite interesting.  There is only ONE crime he could be convicted of that would legally DISQUALIFY him from running and holding the office.  It isn't corruption or "sedition" or "insurrection".  The Constitution defines a single crime.  One crime and one crime ONLY.  The founders had plenty of experience with the political use of "Treason" as a crime against the crown that changed its requirements on any ruler's whim.

The Founders therefore carefully defined what Treason was and what it was not.  I won't bother to list the source here, it can easily be found by anyone who is interested.  Suffice that there is absolutely no way he can be convicted of that crime.  It would require SCOTUS to blatantly rule against the clear language of our Constitution.  So, all of you who are salivating over some legal bloodbath for Orange Man Bad... enjoy the media circus while it lasts and brace yourself for how it ends.  The media understand that he cannot be taken down in this way but what they CAN DO is to foment hate based on lies and agitate enough people to create a "resistance" should Trump then go on to win.

A person is guilty of treason if they intentionally betray their allegiance to the country. As defined in the Constitution under Article III, a person can wage war against the United States without the use of weapons or military equipment. You are a traitor to the United States, even if you only play a peripheral role in a conspiracy. 

Treason in the Constitution - Thomas C. Grajek, Attorney at Law (getgrajek.com)

I'd say all the effort he put into trying to overturn a lawful election was a conspiracy worthy of a treason definition. 

[MGB]

On 12/28/2022 at 1:06 AM, and-then said:

What?  You mean they might be pimping another story for ratings and clicks?  SAY IT AIN'T SO!  

On a serious note though, these people will continue to do everything in their power to stop him from having even a chance to gain that office again and if it requires fomenting violence, they'll do it.

You say, "these people" Yet most of Trump's woes come from Trump himself.

No one told him to take home classified documents. In fact, he was warned by several of his White house lawyers against it, as evidenced by their testimony's.

The Trump organization has been found guilty of over a dozen tax crimes by two of Trump's executives who would not testify against Trump himself and are still employed by him. These things just don't happen except in Trump world.

These people had nothing to do with trying to overturn a lawful election and all the evidence the select committee has uncovered goes in one ear and out the other to people like you.

Trump told his supporters to dismiss what his tax records say, yet they show he appears to be a tax fraud and cheat. Yet I bet you dismiss anything negative.

You refuse to see any criminal intent or culpability in Trump.

Just "them" out to get him, and that is the picture he always paints, and you believe him, every-single-time.

 

 

 

 

[MGB]

On 12/28/2022 at 1:35 AM, the13bats said:

I dont mean to laugh at these rants but its hard not to not long ago you placed your house on the line trump would be convicted and we agree then you drop to new depths in that rabbit hole you think all this is is some evil scam to keep trump from running 2024 are you really that gone? Trump announced hes running and i sure do wonder why the GOP havent jumped to endorse him like 2016 oh perhaps its because of his epic loss 2020 and no he wasnt cheated no election fraud his own top notch legal team paid for by money sent to him by people like you proved that fact and his limited popularity has pummeled since 2020, no all these investagations against him are not to keep him from running it is to show him show you guys and most importantly show the American people who voted him out and are done with his life costing incompetence that no one even BOM is above the law. If you think BOM can run and win 2024 thats super but not realistic.

People just ignore all of Trump's lies too. Like when Cyber Ninjas did the Arizona audit, they confirmed there was no fraud and the Arizona senate agreed as well. However, Trump reported that cyber ninjas uncovered "massive fraud."

So, the weak-minded people he has conditioned to ignore the "lame-stream media" or "fake news" outlets listen only to Trump and the lies he continually spouts. 

It shows you all the testimony from over one thousand witnesses from the select committee is ignored in favor of what "Trump says." Simply put, it is a cult. Hit your knees and worship your false Messiah. Sickening.

[acidhead]

43 minutes ago, MGB said:

Trump told his supporters to dismiss what his tax records say, yet they show he appears to be a tax fraud and cheat. Yet I bet you dismiss anything negative.

Who told you that?

[preacherman76]

2 hours ago, MGB said:

A person is guilty of treason if they intentionally betray their allegiance to the country. As defined in the Constitution under Article III, a person can wage war against the United States without the use of weapons or military equipment. You are a traitor to the United States, even if you only play a peripheral role in a conspiracy. 

Treason in the Constitution - Thomas C. Grajek, Attorney at Law (getgrajek.com)

I'd say all the effort he put into trying to overturn a lawful election was a conspiracy worthy of a treason definition. 

Like trying to fight it in courts??  What are you talking about?

[MGB]

5 hours ago, acidhead said:

Who told you that?

Several media outlets are reporting that, and I won't provide links, look it up yourself, I won't play into your hands.

[MGB]

4 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Like trying to fight it in courts??  What are you talking about?

Show me in the Constitution where lawfully sealed electoral votes can be thrown out and false electors used.

The constitution lays out how the electors are chosen, and Trump wanted these constitutionally designated electors and the votes they cast thrown out in favor of his false, and unconstitutional electors.

[+and-then]

On 12/29/2022 at 12:18 AM, and-then said:

YOU basically made an accusation against me that I was threatening violence and you sir, are a pathetic liar. 

I just wanted to go on the record to publicly apologize for this statement.  I was angry and out of line saying this.  When an insult is made publicly, the apology should be just as publicly acknowledged.   It's my goal in this coming year to try my best to be a person who doesn't resort to anger and insults instead of taking part in a calm, thoughtful debate.  I'm sure I'll stumble along the way but I WILL try my best.  

Comments like the one above don't serve to make anything better.  I'm disgusted with the downward spiral of our politics and lack of civil discourse.  It is going to kill our country.  I really believe this, so it's time to step back, take a deep breath, and go about cleaning up my side of the street, and then try my best to look for solutions, not add to the chaos.

[spartan max2]

1 hour ago, and-then said:

I just wanted to go on the record to publicly apologize for this statement.  I was angry and out of line saying this.  When an insult is made publicly, the apology should be just as publicly acknowledged.   It's my goal in this coming year to try my best to be a person who doesn't resort to anger and insults instead of taking part in a calm, thoughtful debate.  I'm sure I'll stumble along the way but I WILL try my best.  

Comments like the one above don't serve to make anything better.  I'm disgusted with the downward spiral of our politics and lack of civil discourse.  It is going to kill our country.  I really believe this, so it's time to step back, take a deep breath, and go about cleaning up my side of the street, and then try my best to look for solutions, not add to the chaos.

Anger gets the best of all of us sometimes 

[+DieChecker]

3 hours ago, MGB said:

Several media outlets are reporting that, and I won't provide links, look it up yourself, I won't play into your hands.

I did read that Trump did donate his wages to charity in 2017, 2018, 2019, but does not seem to be the case for 2020. Article said there's no proof he didn't donate his taxes, just that he didn't claim that as a deduction.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/31/business/trump-taxes-questions/index.html

Quote

During his presidency, Trump pledged he would donate the entirety of his $400,000 salary to charity each year. He frequently boasted about donating parts of his quarterly paycheck to various government agencies.

If he donated his 2020 salary, he didn’t claim it on his taxes. Among the six years of tax returns the House Ways and Means Committee released, 2020 was the sole year in which Trump listed no donations to charity.

That doesn’t mean his salary wasn’t donated, but it’s unclear if he made good on his promise in 2020.

 

[F3SS]

On 12/28/2022 at 8:23 PM, the13bats said:

 

Iirc those charged with j6 insurrection said to the effect they did as they thought BOM wanted them to do. Hum.

Hum? The dogwhistle theory really seems to be the ultimate case for you guys but it's lame. Did they put down the dog that told Son of Sam to kill people? Probably not.

 

On 12/31/2022 at 5:12 AM, acidhead said:

Who told you that?

The TV of course!

[F3SS]

With a title like bye bye baby who wouldn't take this claim seriously, this time? If after all these years, money and time not working on governing for the American people and wasting valuable resources throughout our alphabet agencies the best chance you have at anything remotely considered to be "taking him down" is over documents that he most likely wanted for keepsakes... Well, how anticlimactic. What a gigantic waste of time and money all around, petty asses.

[Golden Duck]

1 hour ago, F3SS said:

Did they put down the dog that told Son of Sam to kill people?

Have you got a transcript of any speech from that dog?

[F3SS]

2 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Have you got a transcript of any speech from that dog?

Have you got a transcript of anything that doesn't have to be filled in with interpretations, possibilities and perceived dogwhistles?

[Golden Duck]

11 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Have you got a transcript of anything that doesn't have to be filled in with interpretations, possibilities and perceived dogwhistles?

Your attempted analogy limps so severely it's lame.

Berkowitz eventually admitted the dog was a hoax.

The MAGA crowd at Trump's 6 Jan rally - the true believers - and the "Unselect Committee" both have the same interpretation of Trump's historical speech.

Trump's a unifier.

[Tatetopa]

35 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Have you got a transcript of anything that doesn't have to be filled in with interpretations, possibilities and perceived dogwhistles?

Santos comes to mind with this as well, blame the listener, not the speaker.  The speaker is totally innocent.  He said Jew-ish not Jewish.

If Trump was not directing people then he is the most ineffectual eunuch we have ever installed in office.  He sat there for three hours watching his "trashy" but  "good at fighting" followers until it became apparent it was a lost cause and he had to save himself by putting distance between himself and the mob.

 

[F3SS]

You're both presenting a case of active imaginations and speculation but thats about it. How come only folks like you and Buffalo guy heard things so clearly that all the powers in charge of security or who had the ability to provide extra security could not hear? 

When he said to peacefully and patriotically march down to the capitol to make your voices heard I keep wondering why I was struck with awe when the crowd got rowdy. I'm a Trump guy and I'll never buy into 81 million votes yet I never got the secret message. I never knew there was a code to crack or dog whistles to hear. I guess I'm not wired like you two and Buffalo guy. Idk what else it could be.

[F3SS]

4 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Berkowitz eventually admitted the dog was a hoax.

Forgot to add to this shocking revalation. You don't suppose it could ever turn out that with enough interrogation the people who acted badly may reveal the truth that Trump didn't tell them what to do either?

[Gromdor]

1 hour ago, F3SS said:

You're both presenting a case of active imaginations and speculation but thats about it. How come only folks like you and Buffalo guy heard things so clearly that all the powers in charge of security or who had the ability to provide extra security could not hear? 

When he said to peacefully and patriotically march down to the capitol to make your voices heard I keep wondering why I was struck with awe when the crowd got rowdy. I'm a Trump guy and I'll never buy into 81 million votes yet I never got the secret message. I never knew there was a code to crack or dog whistles to hear. I guess I'm not wired like you two and Buffalo guy. Idk what else it could be.

If it's sworn testimony and transcripts you are looking for, it's in the Jan.6 report as well as the testimonies of the rioters (under oath) in their defense. 

Read the Jan. 6 committee report in full : NPR

Jan 6 rioter blames Trump for Capitol attack: ‘We were just following what he said’ (yahoo.com)

Jan. 6 defendant who stole liquor, coat rack says he was 'following presidential orders’ (nbcnews.com)

‘We Were Lied to’: Some Jan. 6 Rioters Blame Trump for Misleading Them – NBC4 Washington (nbcwashington.com)

There does seem to be one common factor in their testimonies on why they acted that you yourself admit you lack- a true belief that it the elction was stolen. 

[F3SS]

Just now, Gromdor said:

If it's sworn testimony and transcripts you are looking for, it's in the Jan.6 report as well as the testimonies of the rioters (under oath) in their defense. 

Read the Jan. 6 committee report in full : NPR

Jan 6 rioter blames Trump for Capitol attack: ‘We were just following what he said’ (yahoo.com)

Jan. 6 defendant who stole liquor, coat rack says he was 'following presidential orders’ (nbcnews.com)

‘We Were Lied to’: Some Jan. 6 Rioters Blame Trump for Misleading Them – NBC4 Washington (nbcwashington.com)

There does seem to be one common factor in their testimonies on why they acted that you yourself admit you lack- a true belief that it the elction was stolen. 

Right, they wouldn't be trying to skirt responsibility or anything would they? 

I did admit that many times here though I don't harp on it. That said, I still didn't get the message so what's up with that?

[Gromdor]

8 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Right, they wouldn't be trying to skirt responsibility or anything would they? 

I did admit that many times here though I don't harp on it. That said, I still didn't get the message so what's up with that?

Think of it as a lynch mob mentality.

If I said, "We gotta do something!" in regards to say a rape case in which the accused got off free, the people who think he is innocent or are unsure would maybe stage a protest or pass some laws to prevent it from happening again.

But the people who think he was guilty would grab their pitchforks and a rope.

You could argue that saying, "We gotta do something!" didn't start it all off and you got no message from it- but to others it is loud and clear.

Edit to add: especially if the guy saying it was the mayor.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Gromdor

[F3SS]

1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

Think of it as a lynch mob mentality.

If I said, "We gotta do something!" in regards to say a rape case in which the accused got off free, the people who think he is innocent or are unsure would maybe stage a protest or pass some laws to prevent it from happening again.

But the people who think he was guilty would grab their pitchforks and a rope.

You could argue that saying, "We gotta do something!" didn't start it all off and you got no message from it- but to others it is loud and clear.

Edit to add: especially if the guy saying it was the mayor.

I get all that but it's still just subjective interpretation. Fight like hell is a generic phrase and peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard really can't be misconstrued. It's not vague. It's pretty plain and simple language.

 

 

[MGB]

1 minute ago, F3SS said:

I get all that but it's still just subjective interpretation. Fight like hell is a generic phrase and peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard really can't be misconstrued. It's not vague. It's pretty plain and simple language.

 

 

It was all the other conflicting stuff that got him Impeached.

• "We're gathered together in the heart of our nation's Capitol for one very, very basic and simple reason, to save our democracy."
• "We will not let them silence your voices. We're not going to let it happen. Not going to let it happen."
• "Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that's what this is all about. To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal."
• "That's what they've done and what they're doing. We will never give up. We will never concede, it doesn't happen. You don't concede when there's theft involved."
• "When you catch somebody in a fraud, you're allowed to go by very different rules."
• "Let them get out. Let the weak ones get out. This is a time for strength....It's all part of the comprehensive assault on our democracy and the American people to finally standing up and saying, 'No.' This crowd is again a testament to it."
• "You will have an illegitimate president, that's what you'll have. And we can't let that happen."
• "We will not be intimidated into accepting the hoaxes and the lies that we've been forced to believe over the past several weeks. We've amassed overwhelming evidence about a fake election."
• "We're going to see whether or not we have great and courageous leaders or whether or not we have leaders that should be ashamed of themselves throughout history, throughout eternity, they'll be ashamed. And you know what? If they do the wrong thing, we should never ever forget that they did. Never forget. We should never ever forget."
• Fact Check: Did Trump Say to 'Peacefully and Patriotically' March to the Capitol? (newsweek.com)

[Grim Reaper 6]

On 12/31/2022 at 7:12 PM, acidhead said:

Who told you that?

Here is some updated information that is now being investigated that clear show 100 of Millions of dollars in unsubstantiated deductions along with other Tax improprieties. Then when you consider that by some trick of magic Trumps first two years in Officer the IRS didn’t perform required mandatory audits, and this is the first recorded time this has occurred with sitting President since the procedure was implemented but that’s ok because that will also be fully investigated. What can be taken from this, is simply SOMEONE is going to be held responsible for the situations above.

Now, what’s odd is only a Very Very High Ranking IRS official would be responsible to insure that the Presidential mandated audit was carried out. This individual will be highly scrutinized and more than likely either he or she caved into pressure from the White House or when asked not to perform the audits they agreed to do so willingly but there is no excuse why this occurred. Especially, when a Congressman called in 2019 to verify that the audits were being accomplished to only find out later that day they the 2017-2018 were only started after the inquiry was made which obviously shows that someone was caught bare assed in a hall way!!

Video in the link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/newsmicrosoft-games/millions-of-unsubstantiated-deductions-lawmaker-on-trumps-tax-returns/vi-AA15x3oc

@MGB @Tatetopa

 

[+Paranoid Android]

1 hour ago, MGB said:

It was all the other conflicting stuff that got him Impeached.

• "We're gathered together in the heart of our nation's Capitol for one very, very basic and simple reason, to save our democracy."
• "We will not let them silence your voices. We're not going to let it happen. Not going to let it happen."
• "Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that's what this is all about. To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal."
• "That's what they've done and what they're doing. We will never give up. We will never concede, it doesn't happen. You don't concede when there's theft involved."
• "When you catch somebody in a fraud, you're allowed to go by very different rules."
• "Let them get out. Let the weak ones get out. This is a time for strength....It's all part of the comprehensive assault on our democracy and the American people to finally standing up and saying, 'No.' This crowd is again a testament to it."
• "You will have an illegitimate president, that's what you'll have. And we can't let that happen."
• "We will not be intimidated into accepting the hoaxes and the lies that we've been forced to believe over the past several weeks. We've amassed overwhelming evidence about a fake election."
• "We're going to see whether or not we have great and courageous leaders or whether or not we have leaders that should be ashamed of themselves throughout history, throughout eternity, they'll be ashamed. And you know what? If they do the wrong thing, we should never ever forget that they did. Never forget. We should never ever forget."
• Fact Check: Did Trump Say to 'Peacefully and Patriotically' March to the Capitol? (newsweek.com)

The impeachment failed. Because despite the quotes, these quotes aren't actually calling for violence. They require interpretation to make that assertion. Nothing he said is actually calling for violence, and that is why there will be absolutely nothing coming out of this witch hunt. Just imagine if this type of rhetoric were all that it took to impeach someone, I can imagine there'd be a lot of democrat politicians, maybe even some democrat voters, worried about their own words! 

 

* "I don't know why there aren't uprisings all over the country. Maybe there will be".

* "there needs to be unrest in the streets as long as there is unrest in our lives"

* "You have to be ready to throw a punch"/"I would like to take him behind the gym if we were in high school"

* "I will go and take Trump out tonight"

* "When was the last time an actor assassinated a president"? 

* "Show me where it says protests must be polite and peaceful".

* "And you push back on them, and you tell them they aren't welcome". 

* "I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House"

* "Please, get up in the face of congresspeople"

* "I want to tell you Gorsuch, I want to tell you Kavanaugh, you have released the whirlwind and you will pay the price"

* "This is just a warning to you Trumpers. Be careful. Walk lightly. And for those of you that are soldiers - make them pay!"

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Paranoid Android