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Gov DeSantis leads’ Republican Representative most likely to win 2024 presidential nominee


Grim Reaper 6
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2 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

This is the dumbest thing you have ever posted by far.
First, who’s Ron Paul? Seriously? If you really didn’t know that before yesterday, mmm never mind..

No that’s not an accurate statement, you constant use of LEFT - LEFT - LEFT dam dude you sound like broken record, but I actually know what the real issue is your Trump Zombie and that’s what you programmed to say!:yes:

As Far as Ron Paul, I only actually follow Republican candidates and Democrats well except for the idiot Biden. The other parties have no chance of winning, so if those politicians were nit just interested in lining their pockets with money from special interest groups, and they really wanted to work for the majority of Americans they would love to either the Democratic or Republican parties, do I pay no attention to them, like you hero Trumps says in public - I like winners not losers!:D

2 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

 I guess all it took was a meme to convince you he is a nazi, cause that’s about all the evidence you are going to find on the subject. I notice you didn’t provide a source for this assertion. 

Nein, das ist nicht wahr, at all that’s your preconceived notion below is what my comments were based upon, unlike you I will provide sources when asked!:yes:

You see saying that’s all I will find on the subject also tells me you have difficulty doing research, if you need help I will be glad to assist you, just ask!:tu:

Red Herring: Neo-Nazis and John Mayer support Ron Paul: https://dailyutahchronicle.com/2007/11/30/red-herring-neonazis-and-john-mayer-support-ron-paul/

If you're a politician and your chummy past with neo-Nazis resurfaces, don't worry. Ask Ron Paul: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/30/steve-scalise-republicans-neo-nazis-ron-paul

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5 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Knife fights? No, we up the level to way beyond guns. Make it clear that any invasion or hostile assault on our country means the end of yours. By nuclear fire. 
 

Aside from that we mind our own business. 

Doesn't that sound a little more like fear and rage than confidence and strength?

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3 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Doesn't that sound a little more like fear and rage than confidence and strength?

Not at all. Sounds like a far smaller military budget. Fear and rage is the kinda thing they use to get us into these pointless wars. 
 

Like the current proxy war with Russia. Didn’t even try to make peace. 

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8 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

No that’s not an accurate statement, you constant use of LEFT - LEFT - LEFT dam dude you sound like broken record, but I actually know what the real issue is your Trump Zombie and that’s what you programmed to say!:yes:

As Far as Ron Paul, I only actually follow Republican candidates and Democrats well except for the idiot Biden. The other parties have no chance of winning, so if those politicians were nit just interested in lining their pockets with money from special interest groups, and they really wanted to work for the majority of Americans they would love to either the Democratic or Republican parties, do I pay no attention to them, like you hero Trumps says in public - I like winners not losers!:D

Nein, das ist nicht wahr, at all that’s your preconceived notion below is what my comments were based upon, unlike you I will provide sources when asked!:yes:

You see saying that’s all I will find on the subject also tells me you have difficulty doing research, if you need help I will be glad to assist you, just ask!:tu:

Red Herring: Neo-Nazis and John Mayer support Ron Paul: https://dailyutahchronicle.com/2007/11/30/red-herring-neonazis-and-john-mayer-support-ron-paul/

If you're a politician and your chummy past with neo-Nazis resurfaces, don't worry. Ask Ron Paul: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/30/steve-scalise-republicans-neo-nazis-ron-paul

I don’t need to research. I actually followed his career and voting record while he severed many many years in office. 
 

If you think he is a nazi, then you are an idiot. So are the idiots who wrote this absolute BS. 

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Just for the title topic, DeSantis is still not registered to run for president in 2024.

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11 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Knife fights? No, we up the level to way beyond guns. Make it clear that any invasion or hostile assault on our country means the end of yours. By nuclear fire. 

That sounds to me like a threat the same as  "If you come onto my property, not only will I kill you but I will go to your home and incinerate your wife and family and even your pets in the most painful; way possible." 

Sounds pretty much like rage and fear to me.  

And BTW, so many seem to be getting their talking points from the same source.  Its a tell.  

Proxy war is defined by two major powers fighting each in a third small country and using a local conflict as cover.  We did not instigate a proxy war with Russia.  We were silent when Russia invaded Crimea.  Now Russia has again invaded Ukraine with the goal of capturing the  country and bringing it under Russian control. We are still not in direct conflict with Russia.  If Ukraine had been in NATO, we would be fighting Russia but it would not be a proxy war, it would be our direct involvement with troops.

Yes indeed we have a history of those conflicts in Korea, Vietnam, and Central America. It is not always a history to be proud of and now, maybe time for a change.   I will give Trump some credit for starting the withdrawal from Afghanistan and Biden credit and blame for the poor execution of that withdrawal.  No matter what, that might mark the start of a new age for US foreign policy.  I hope so, but I guess we will find out. 

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3 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

I don’t need to research. I actually followed his career and voting record while he severed many many years in office
If you think he is a nazi, then you are an idiot. So are the idiots who wrote this absolute BS.

Well you must be careful not to follow him to closely because he may send the Altright to in still his social values upon you. So, I’m an idiot, that’s hoot dude, :wacko::blink::P because it is what it is and again your commenting with out sources to debunk what is written so again like I said before naming calling and no source material means, Preacherman is a bad boy who can’t prove his comments are accurate. So he gets hurt and Whines, well all I can say Preacherman is, DO YOU WANT CHEESE WITH YOUR WHINE.:lol:

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10 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

That sounds to me like a threat the same as  "If you come onto my property, not only will I kill you but I will go to your home and incinerate your wife and family and even your pets in the most painful; way possible." 

Sounds pretty much like rage and fear to me.  
 

Sounds to me like our war mongering days are over. It’s a deterrent, that works. I wouldn’t think there would ever come a day when we’d actually have to use it. Again, what goes on right now is fear and rage.  It’s nearly all msm pushes, on every front. Especially when the powers that be want to start bombing and occupying another country. 
 

Most people’s complaints when they heard him first speak of it were not that it was a fearful or angry stance, but that it was one of isolation. Truth is though, not everything is our business. 

10 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

And BTW, so many seem to be getting their talking points from the same source.  Its a tell.  

Proxy war is defined by two major powers fighting each in a third small country and using a local conflict as cover.  We did not instigate a proxy war with Russia.  We were silent when Russia invaded Crimea.  Now Russia has again invaded Ukraine with the goal of capturing the  country and bringing it under Russian control. We are still not in direct conflict with Russia.  If Ukraine had been in NATO, we would be fighting Russia but it would not be a proxy war, it would be our direct involvement with troops.

Yes indeed we have a history of those conflicts in Korea, Vietnam, and Central America. It is not always a history to be proud of and now, maybe time for a change.   I will give Trump some credit for starting the withdrawal from Afghanistan and Biden credit and blame for the poor execution of that withdrawal.  No matter what, that might mark the start of a new age for US foreign policy.  I hope so, but I guess we will find out. 

But didn’t we? Seems to me we outright provoked the attack. Russia’s stance has been clear for many years, keep nato away from their boarder. 
 

And even though Biden knew this full well. Even though he preached that he was the only one who could prevent Russia from attacking Ukraine. That if Trump was re-elected Russia was certain to invade Ukraine. 
 

Yet the first thing this man does in office, well among the top 3 things, he praises Ukraine and tells the world how close they are to becoming the newest member of nato. Did he think Russia didn’t really mean it? Did he think they were playing? Certainly not. 
 

To top it off, most of our government, both sides included talk about Ukraine like it’s this beacon of freedom and democracy. Like as if they don’t have an army of nazi’s and a leader who imprisoned his political opponents. Who also took over all media in their country. There is neither freedom or democracy in Ukraine, and they talk about this guy like he is George Washington. 
 

Im not sure how many billions we have now sent, which is another provocation. And now SBF is out on bail with 250 million dollars that no one knows who gave him, cause in an unprecedented move the judge allowed that information to be sealed. Adding to the odds that powerful people were getting kick backs from that money. 
 

My source was this administration, and government. Watching what happened in real time. We did nothing to try and stop this. Didn’t even try to bring the two sides to the table. Why? Because this is what they want, a war with Russia by proxy. 

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9 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Well you must be careful not to follow him to closely because he may send the Altright to in still his social values upon you. So, I’m an idiot, that’s hoot dude, :wacko::blink::P because it is what it is and again your commenting with out sources to debunk what is written so again like I said before naming calling and no source material means, Preacherman is a bad boy who can’t prove his comments are accurate. So he gets hurt and Whines, well all I can say Preacherman is, DO YOU WANT CHEESE WITH YOUR WHINE.:lol:

Mmm dude, you won’t find another poster on these boards who believe Ron Paul is a nazi. It’s ridiculous. Your sources are hit pieces from a time when they were terrified because he was gaining momentum. 
 

You didn’t even know who the man was before this thread, yet accept as gospel the first crap you could dig up. 
Heck the fact you think he is “alt right” tells me you couldn’t possibly know less about the guy. 

And what do you mean follow him? He is long retired and old as dirt. Makes dirty Joe look like a young man. 
 

 

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23 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Mmm dude, you won’t find another poster on these boards who believe Ron Paul is a nazi. It’s ridiculous. Your sources are hit pieces from a time when they were terrified because he was gaining momentum.
You didn’t even know who the man was before this thread, yet accept as gospel the first crap you could dig up

What I find amusing is your inability to debunk those sources, if your unable to do so they are not hit pieces they are facts!!!

I have no idea how old you are, but that doesn’t even matter because if you have age,  you lack wisdom. Because you frequently make comments your unable to support by any philosophical awareness, so you prove that wisdom doesn’t come with age:yes:

23 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:


Heck the fact you think he is “alt right” tells me you couldn’t possibly know less about the guy. 

And what do you mean follow him? He is long retired and old as dirt. Makes dirty Joe look like a young man

The fact you can’t debunk those comments says it all, follow him down the path to the extreme RightWing that’s what I mean. If your comments were wise you wouldn’t respond to comments you are not able to refute. By doing so you only reinforce your lack of wisdom, so wise up and look for a source and debunk those comments that’s the wise thing to do!:yes:

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

What I find amusing is your inability to debunk those sources, if your unable to do so they are not hit pieces they are facts!!!

I have no idea how old you are, but that doesn’t even matter because if you have age,  you lack wisdom. Because you frequently make comments your unable to support by any philosophical awareness, so you prove that wisdom doesn’t come with age:yes:

The fact you can’t debunk those comments says it all, follow him down the path to the extreme RightWing that’s what I mean. If your comments were wise you wouldn’t respond to comments you are not able to refute. By doing so you only reinforce your lack of wisdom, so wise up and look for a source and debunk those comments that’s the wise thing to do!:yes:

I remember the accusations at the time. They were just as ridiculous then as they are now. I mean seriously, politicians take pictures with hundreds of people. You can’t take one and say this means he is a nazi. You also can’t blame him for a news letter he had little to no authority over and blame him for something someone else wrote. 
 

Show me how he is a nazi through his voting record. Through his speeches. cause those paint a very different story. He had to be the least nazi like guy, who was 100% consistent in words and deeds and voting records through decades of service that I’ve ever seen. 
 

He was the only one who stood against the federal reserve and their out of control printing. Was the only guy there who was for a fully free market. Was 100% for freedom in every aspect imaginable. From gay marriage to drug use, to free speech, and gun rights. On every front. Yeah that’s some nazi lol. 
 

Guy spent his free time giving free medical exams to the poor, at home and over seas. 
 

Show me something that takes any of that away, and I’ll be impressed. Keep your gossip hit pieces that everyone saw through at the time they were written. 

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14 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

I remember the accusations at the time. They were just as ridiculous then as they are now. I mean seriously, politicians take pictures with hundreds of people. You can’t take one and say this means he is a nazi. You also can’t blame him for a news letter he had little to no authority over and blame him for something someone else wrote. 
 

Show me how he is a nazi through his voting record. Through his speeches. cause those paint a very different story. He had to be the least nazi like guy, who was 100% consistent in words and deeds and voting records through decades of service that I’ve ever seen. 
 

He was the only one who stood against the federal reserve and their out of control printing. Was the only guy there who was for a fully free market. Was 100% for freedom in every aspect imaginable. From gay marriage to drug use, to free speech, and gun rights. On every front. Yeah that’s some nazi lol. 
 

Guy spent his free time giving free medical exams to the poor, at home and over seas. 
 

Show me something that takes any of that away, and I’ll be impressed. Keep your gossip hit pieces that everyone saw through at the time they were written. 

Ok let me explain forum protocol to you, if I make a comment and supply a source - do not respond unless your able to supply a source that refutes or debunks my comments because your only offering an opinion. frankly I don’t care what your opinion is, to me it’s BS without a source!:td:

So, unless you supply a source I will no longer respond to your ridiculous broken record response. I I I I I I I , No No no no no! Sincerely you want an honest respectful response, act respectfully and supply a source!:st

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28 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Ok let me explain forum protocol to you, if I make a comment and supply a source - do not respond unless your able to supply a source that refutes or debunks my comments because your only offering an opinion. frankly I don’t care what your opinion is, to me it’s BS without a source!:td:

So, unless you supply a source I will no longer respond to your ridiculous broken record response. I I I I I I I , No No no no no! Sincerely you want an honest respectful response, act respectfully and supply a source!:st

Yeah I’d stop if I were you too. Take your “sources” with you. 

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5 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Yeah I’d stop if I were you too. Take your “sources” with you. 

No you have not stopped because of a lack of Wisdom, I have asked you to stop, yet your unable to control yourself. I would suggest you see a doctor because your exhibiting symptoms of Impulse Control Disorder, take care of it as soon as possible!:yes:

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9 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

No you have not stopped because of a lack of Wisdom, I have asked you to stop, yet your unable to control yourself. I would suggest you see a doctor because your exhibiting symptoms of Impulse Control Disorder, take care of it as soon as possible!:yes:

Oh you asked me to stop lol, cause I wasn’t following your rules lol. Which were to disprove a negative from a source full of gossip, slander, and outright lies. Who took two instances out of context and then told us what we should think about it. Yeah no thanks. 
 

If you want to walk away then do it. You don’t get to dictate to me what I choose to respond to or not. 
 

I’ll take your complete abandonment of the discussion to personally attack me as a win on the scoreboard. Good day sir. 

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17 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Oh you asked me to stop lol, cause I wasn’t following your rules lol. Which were to disprove a negative from a source full of gossip, slander, and outright lies. Who took two instances out of context and then told us what we should think about it. Yeah no thanks. 
 

If you want to walk away then do it. You don’t get to dictate to me what I choose to respond to or not. 
 

I’ll take your complete abandonment of the discussion to personally attack me as a win on the scoreboard. Good day sir. 

Let, me put it this way, in 5 posts you have added no content which constitutes trolling. I have asked you to prove your point, you can’t, do it so you decide to troll this thread. Unlike you, I have proven my point, you with sources. You have proven your go to behavior is to troll. Last,  add some content that backs up your point of view or get squashed like all trolls do. It’s your choice!:)

Again impulsive control disorder is effecting your judgement, I feel for you yet, i also have lost my patience so put up, or go away there!:yes:

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2 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Let, me put it this way, in 5 posts you have added no content which constitutes trolling. I have asked you to prove your point, you can’t, do it so you decide to troll this thread. Unlike you, I have proven my point, you with sources. You have proven your go to behavior is to troll. Last,  add some content that backs up your point of view or get squashed like all trolls do. It’s your choice!:)

You are the one who ended the conversation after I refuted your sources, in detail. You are the one who decided it was better to personally attack me instead of refuting what I said. You have offered nothing to this conversation from your own brain, cause as you admitted, you don’t even know who the guy is. You parroted slander hit pieces, again with no personal reason to believe any of it is true, then call me a troll. Lol damn bro.
 

The only thing you proved is that you are willing to blindly follow a narrative that you admittedly know nothing about personally. 

2 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Again impulsive control disorder is effecting your judgement, I feel for you yet, i also have lost my patience so put up, or go away there!:yes:

Put what up? I have put up fact after fact about his long standing career, and how it refutes your admittedly blindly led narrative. You completely ignored every word. There was a time I felt for people like you, honestly though, you deserve your ignorance. 
 

BTW stop acting like you have some authority to tell me what to do. You are the one that was crying, saying you were taking your ball and going home cause I won’t play link war with you. 

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7 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Sounds to me like our war mongering days are over. It’s a deterrent, that works. I wouldn’t think there would ever come a day when we’d actually have to use it.

There are some things on which we agree.  I would not have fled the country to avoid the draft, but I was strongly opposed to the Vietnam war.  There was some kernel of me that thought there was a patriotic duty to serve if called.  Since that time, we have been all over the world using military might against both states and non-state actors.  We justified Afghanistan by going after the 9/11 perpetrators, Alqaeda, non-state terrorists.  Still, we decimated a country, and left it in tattered disarray for 20 years.

When I was young and fervent about Vietnam, I thought we were the worst, war-mongering tyrants in the world.  We opposed the military industrial complex  in the 70's and though we had won, but of course we were wrong.  The MIC is still going strong and has allied with the MSM.

Over the years, it seemed that we were not alone in that role and maybe even not the worst.  I think we can change our interaction with other nations for the better but not through isolation.  Deterrent is another name for ultimate threat, and eventually to be relevant, a threat has to be used of it becomes unbelievable.

Ukraine has been a Viking kingdom,  independent, a part of Poland, a part of the Russian empire, independent again and captured by the Red Army Bolsheviks in 1917.  Russian claim to Ukraine is not ancient by any means.  Ukraine wants  to maintain or regain their independence.  They had no military designs on Russia. As far as their borders, Finland and Sweden had no desire to join NATO until Russia invaded Ukraine.  Now Russia has two new NATO countries on its border.  Different from a proxy war, Russia is not fighting NATO or US troops with civilian casualties being a side effect.  Russia is focused on eliminating resistance by targeting civilians directly and by starvation and freezing.  Read about Stalin and the Holodomor of the 30's, when he caused a famine that resulted in literally millions of Ukrainians starving and you will see why Ukraine resists current Russian domination under Putin so vigorously.  I would rather give my support to the people who are starving than the dictator who wants to starve them because he says he feels threatened.  

Like it or not, we have been the major player in the world since WWII.  We have been both foolish and cruel at times.  Now is time to change that.  If we retreat into our borders and watch ourselves slowly decay, somebody else will fill the vacuum we have left and nothing will change.  Eventually we will be weak enough that somebody will come for us.

If we want change, we will have to lead it, and we could be the force for good that we wish and sometimes convince ourselves we are.  There are dangers in the modern world that are not resolved with weapons; disease, and climate degradation are two that come to mind.  If an asteroid is heading for a collision with earth, will we sit back and not take action until everybody pays up?  To me,  America First means looking out for the long term welfare of America.  If other nations benefit from that, maybe we should be gracious and grateful and not resentful .

I still have trouble shaking loose from all of those childhood sermons about the beatitudes, feeding the masses, and when you feed the hungry and clothe the indigent you are feeding and clothing me.   Nations do not always live up to those principles, but as citizens we can voice our support for them and elect representatives that keep them in mind. 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

You are the one who ended the conversation after I refuted your sources, in detail. You are the one who decided it was better to personally attack me instead of refuting what I said. You have offered nothing to this conversation from your own brain, cause as you admitted, you don’t even know who the guy is. You parroted slander hit pieces, again with no personal reason to believe any of it is true, then call me a troll. Lol damn bro.
 

The only thing you proved is that you are willing to blindly follow a narrative that you admittedly know nothing about personally. 

Put what up? I have put up fact after fact about his long standing career, and how it refutes your admittedly blindly led narrative. You completely ignored every word. There was a time I felt for people like you, honestly though, you deserve your ignorance. 
 

BTW stop acting like you have some authority to tell me what to do. You are the one that was crying, saying you were taking your ball and going home cause I won’t play link war with you. 

 

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16 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

There are some things on which we agree.  I would not have fled the country to avoid the draft, but I was strongly opposed to the Vietnam war.  There was some kernel of me that thought there was a patriotic duty to serve if called.  Since that time, we have been all over the world using military might against both states and non-state actors.  We justified Afghanistan by going after the 9/11 perpetrators, Alqaeda, non-state terrorists.  Still, we decimated a country, and left it in tattered disarray for 20 years.

When I was young and fervent about Vietnam, I thought we were the worst, war-mongering tyrants in the world.  We opposed the military industrial complex  in the 70's and though we had won, but of course we were wrong.  The MIC is still going strong and has allied with the MSM.

Over the years, it seemed that we were not alone in that role and maybe even not the worst.  I think we can change our interaction with other nations for the better but not through isolation.  Deterrent is another name for ultimate threat, and eventually to be relevant, a threat has to be used of it becomes unbelievable.

Hey Tate. Great post. Definitely ground for possible agreement and understanding. Personally that’s not how I would define a deterrent though. You see that little dog I have for a profile pic? His name is Titus, and he is an American bully. He is a new breed only recognized by a few kennels so far. A mix of basically every type of pit bull, and the Cain Corso. So it’s basically a much bigger pit bull. For whatever reason though, this breed has no where near the aggression as a regular pit. Great family dogs. 
 

He has gotten much bigger since that picture was taken. And though he is super friendly, wants to meet everyone including other dogs, and just wants to be friends, people are a lot less willing to approach him as they were just a few weeks ago. At home he is protective, and barks when he hears noises outside the property. Honestly I doubt he’d do anything if someone came, but they wouldn’t know that. To them he looks like a big, willing to throw down pit bull. He is a deterrent. 

16 hours ago, Tatetopa said:


 

Ukraine has been a Viking kingdom,  independent, a part of Poland, a part of the Russian empire, independent again and captured by the Red Army Bolsheviks in 1917.  Russian claim to Ukraine is not ancient by any means.  Ukraine wants  to maintain or regain their independence.  They had no military designs on Russia. As far as their borders, Finland and Sweden had no desire to join NATO until Russia invaded Ukraine.  Now Russia has two new NATO countries on its border.  Different from a proxy war, Russia is not fighting NATO or US troops with civilian casualties being a side effect.  Russia is focused on eliminating resistance by targeting civilians directly and by starvation and freezing.  Read about Stalin and the Holodomor of the 30's, when he caused a famine that resulted in literally millions of Ukrainians starving and you will see why Ukraine resists current Russian domination under Putin so vigorously.  I would rather give my support to the people who are starving than the dictator who wants to starve them because he says he feels threatened.  
 

Of course. Like you said to me earlier in this thread, you see an opinion from many that seems to be coming from a source.  I do here as well. That is that if you don’t support giving Ukraine billions to continue this war, then you support the other side. I don’t support Russia in this at all. I just feel it’s important to understand this isn’t black and white. That this has a long complicated history. 
 

Maybe this would have eventually been the right course of action. I just don’t get why it was the first course of action. Heck I don’t understand any action we have taken since Biden took office regarding Ukraine. Why provoke this? Because that was an obvious and predictable thing. They said as much, many times, over many years. 
 

We instantly saw Russia reacting to Ukraines possible nato membership by amassing troops to their boarder. It’s at that moment we should have been calling for peace. Before a shot was fired we should have brought these two countries to the table and at least tried to avoid war. Stopped this nonsense talk about Ukraine joining nato, and worked out a deal between them to avoid all this. 
 

That’s what a strong US leader, who really cared about the people of Ukraine would have done. Instead we are led by globalists who want this proxy war with Russia. We provoked it in-spite of the fact that the people of Ukraine were going to suffer and starve by the millions. We continue to fund it, regardless of our own economic whoa’s. I have heard interviews with Ukrainians who at this point don’t care who wins. They just want it over. I get the public who supports this have good intentions, but it’s really only prolonging these people’s suffering. 

And that’s another thing. Now that we can’t get through a single year without borrowing nearly two trillion dollar's, that is a very clear sign this economic cycle has intentionality run its course. Big changes on a global economic scale are coming soon. I’m recon that plays into all this as well, on a few different fronts. 

16 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

 

Like it or not, we have been the major player in the world since WWII.  We have been both foolish and cruel at times.  Now is time to change that.  If we retreat into our borders and watch ourselves slowly decay, somebody else will fill the vacuum we have left and nothing will change.  Eventually we will be weak enough that somebody will come for us.

I couldn’t agree more. The criticism of Ron Paul’s foreign policy was that it is isolation. But that isn’t the truth. It was about having strong friendly relationships, enticing countries with fair trade agreements. Working out things in a peaceful manor, instead of bombs. Perhaps this is exactly the type of change you speak of?

16 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

If we want change, we will have to lead it, and we could be the force for good that we wish and sometimes convince ourselves we are.  There are dangers in the modern world that are not resolved with weapons; disease, and climate degradation are two that come to mind.  If an asteroid is heading for a collision with earth, will we sit back and not take action until everybody pays up?  To me,  America First means looking out for the long term welfare of America.  If other nations benefit from that, maybe we should be gracious and grateful and not resentful .

Absolutely. I totally agree. That doesn’t mean though that we should be flipping the bill for other countries when they can clearly afford it themselves. That’s being taken advantage of. Heck seems to me the American people are being taken advantage of on several levels. Again, I bring up the recent 1.7 trillion dollar single year budget. Most have no idea the rug is being pulled on them. And Biden’s war with oil has put us in a position where our dollar as world reserve currency is going to end. People have no idea the nightmare they intend for us. 

16 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

I still have trouble shaking loose from all of those childhood sermons about the beatitudes, feeding the masses, and when you feed the hungry and clothe the indigent you are feeding and clothing me.   Nations do not always live up to those principles, but as citizens we can voice our support for them and elect representatives that keep them in mind. 

 

 

 

Amen to that. 

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19 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

We justified Afghanistan by going after the 9/11 perpetrators, Alqaeda, non-state terrorists.  Still, we decimated a country, and left it in tattered disarray for 20 years.

Everyone is ignoring the fact (FACT) that we were not alone in Afghanistan, the British were there for decades (even before the 70's and you can look it up if you want).   When I was in the army I served with lifers (guys who made the army their career) who had been in Afghanistan, the 70s!   There were also places in Africa we "didn't have troops" but we had troops.    The 9-11 thing is not why we "went to Afghanistan".    

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5 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Absolutely. I totally agree. That doesn’t mean though that we should be flipping the bill for other countries when they can clearly afford it themselves. That’s being taken advantage of. Heck seems to me the American people are being taken advantage of on several levels.

Great post with a lot of potential for enlightening discussion rather than just antagonism.

I would like to comment on this statement, as one of many worthy of further exploration.  Look back at our history, although we did not have official colonies, we shares some of our foreign policy with colonial powers.  As the US jump started its economy  with our own resources, we also gathered materials from across the world.   Banana Republics are called that for a reason.  United Fruit and other American companies converted that region to growing bananas for the American market.  At times they enlisted the power of the American government to overthrow the countries governments if they were not giving favorable concessions. American Business shaped the politics of the region to suit our commercial needs.   At least part of the chaos and corruption in Central America stems from that time.  To say United Fruit  is responsible for our own current immigration problem, is overstating it, but their actions did set the stage.  

In modern times, we have our own examples. There was the Iran Contra affair with Oliver North.  The cartels were our customers and suppliers for that caper. Clinton and free trade, Nixon opening China.  American manufacturing scoured the world for  cheap materials and labor to sell at home, they were backed by the might of the US military.  Its not new, its been going on for generations.

I would agree that US taxpayers have paid the bill, but it was not foreign countries, it was American and international corporations that directed the actions.  In fairness, US citizens have prospered greatly from our foreign trade and relations, especially when we manufactured and exported so much.  We have raised our standard of living beyond anything the world had seen before.  Even foreign aid benefits us by elevating the buying power of our customers.  We pay for it, corporations benefit.  Sometimes other countries push back, business does not like that, and enlists public opinion against it.

I think it is business that has taken us for a ride, not other countries.

  

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On 1/8/2023 at 2:31 AM, preacherman76 said:

You are the one who ended the conversation after I refuted your sources, in detail. You are the one who decided it was better to personally attack me instead of refuting what I said. You have offered nothing to this conversation from your own brain, cause as you admitted, you don’t even know who the guy is. You parroted slander hit pieces, again with no personal reason to believe any of it is true, then call me a troll. Lol damn bro.
 

The only thing you proved is that you are willing to blindly follow a narrative that you admittedly know nothing about personally. 

Put what up? I have put up fact after fact about his long standing career, and how it refutes your admittedly blindly led narrative. You completely ignored every word. There was a time I felt for people like you, honestly though, you deserve your ignorance. 
 

BTW stop acting like you have some authority to tell me what to do. You are the one that was crying, saying you were taking your ball and going home cause I won’t play link war with you. 

I have no authority here, to make that statement you certainly have proven that your nit sake to comprehend what my message was, but I am certainly not surprised by that! :D My comments were based solely on how trolling and  negative behavior is often dealt with by the forum moderators, so that’s the authority you should consider never said I had any sorry I didn’t break it down in small pieces so you would be bye to understand it, next time I will.

I find your comments very hilarious, I never realized before you were actually a comedian!:D However,  again I need to be clear and break things down so your able to comprehend them. Sparky, I have never walked away from any conflict in my entire life no matter the circumstances ir danger involved. It’s obvious where and how we are truly different, I don’t gain 20 lbs and grow six inches when I sit down behind a computer monitor. I also never say anything to someone online that I would nit also say directly to them face to face and you can take that check to  any bank abd Utkin will be immediately cashed. Our differences stem from those areas, however, we are also philosophically different in many ways that you would never guess. Because its also a very obvious fact that anyone who reads your comments can clearly see exactly what I have just said above. So sincerely, the only thing that I am surprised about and do not understand when considering  the fact that you will not play links war which appears strange considering your a true key board warrior!:lol:

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Posted (edited)
On 1/7/2023 at 10:00 AM, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Let, me put it this way, in 5 posts you have added no content which constitutes trolling. I have asked you to prove your point, you can’t, do it so you decide to troll this thread. Unlike you, I have proven my point, you with sources. You have proven your go to behavior is to troll. Last,  add some content that backs up your point of view or get squashed like all trolls do. It’s your choice!:)

Again impulsive control disorder is effecting your judgement, I feel for you yet, i also have lost my patience so put up, or go away there!:yes:

Some cat posted something about ignoring those just trying to push our buttons, see how a good troll can bait a person and then turn it around on the person they trolled, thing is by nature of the creature all trolls are bottom feeders with zero actual crediblity or integrity empty angry bitter creatures.

The fact they know it just keeps them upset.

Edited by the13bats
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