The God of Death

[Guyver]

 

[openozy]

On 1/7/2023 at 5:13 PM, Guyver said:

What do you think about the idea that it is the Devil who is causing the worlds problems?

No, just overpopulation. We could blame the Devil for that and all his fornicating followers .

[Essan]

2 hours ago, openozy said:

No, just overpopulation. We could blame the Devil for that and all his fornicating followers .

Old Charlie, he stole the handle, and the train it won't stop going, no way to slow down .... 

(Jethro Tull: Locomotive Breath - a song written in 1971 about ever increasing human population.  "Charlie" is the "Devil" )

[Alchopwn]

On 1/7/2023 at 5:13 PM, Guyver said:

According to Christians, some that is, not all…this world actually belongs to Satan.  He won it when he defeated Jesus on the cross.  Now, according to some Christians and their interpretation of the Bible, the Devil is running this world right now, and he will blind the minds of people so that they will not believe in the gospel.  Then really bad things will happen, and the tribulation period will occur and basically kill almost all of us. This is the way they process the evil things that happen in the world.

This sounds far closer to a species of Gnosticism than any orthodox Christian belief.  In Gnosticism, basically the Jewish God is the Devil, and he and his archons run the world, badly.

At the end of the day, what this represents is the terrible tension in Christianity that comes from the irreconcilable problem of Evil.  How can a God who is entirely good and allegedly loves the world and everyone in it also have created Evil?  I mean, God created Satan, and says quite plainly that he is the Author of both Good and Evil (Isaiah 45:7 imsmc).  How do you reconcile such ideas?

The correct answer (for Christians) is that they must view this life and its trials as merely a waiting room for eternity.  To suffer a finite amount and mantain ourselves as good and moral human beings in the face of such suffering in order to gain infinite pleasure in the afterlife is the trade humans make with God.  However ghastly the pain or death we face, it must be weighed against an eternity of pleasure or an eternity of pain if we turn to evil.  This life of ours is merely a test of our faith, and the price of admission. 

This answer however raises many other questions...

[openozy]

49 minutes ago, Essan said:

Old Charlie, he stole the handle, and the train it won't stop going, no way to slow down .... 

(Jethro Tull: Locomotive Breath - a song written in 1971 about ever increasing human population.  "Charlie" is the "Devil" )

Thanks for the translation Essan, I wonder what the lyrics would be like now?

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, Alchopwn said:

This answer however raises many other questions...

 

Ever wonder that the essence of perceived reality is tied up in its inverse?

"But many who are first shall be last, while the last shall often be first."

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Will Due

[Wistman]

17 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

The poem can be read by a hundred different people, and have a hundred different meanings.

So, if you want to tell me your interpretation of that poem, then good, but don't just ask me for something without sharing first.

Get a grip.  Your response to my post was to question me.  I did the same to you.  Fair's fair, bud.

And to boot, your question was inane.  Not an 'interpretation' of Yeats's most famous and incisive poem, which doesn't have a hundred different meanings unless as a blind or excuse to not hear or accept what the poem has to say.  Your trite question to me in response to it was nothing more than a dodge on your part, not being willing to address how Yeats's poetic review of the actual sordid history of christian humanity and its patterns of violence and extermination dampens your view of the power of god and love over fear and greed.   Yours was a limp and hardly worthy comment on the content of that poem and how it addressed your theme. 

pfffft.  

Edited January 15, 2023 by Wistman

[eight bits]

Yeats is better read aloud than silently, IMO.

 

[+Hammerclaw]

[Guyver]

No one liked my Jonny Lang?  What a bummer.  That’s one of my favorites.  Anyway, since I see that a couple threads got closed for preaching, and these folks do t really preach that well, I thought I would take their side and give some props to the power of religion.  Religion can change one’s life and make them stop doing things that are “bad” even to the deepest levels.  For example, due to religious beliefs people can stop smoking, drinking, cussing, doing drugs and having sex.  During my prime years of sexual potency possibly, and probably, I went celebrate for three years.  Due to a “vow” that was really a deal I made with God, I stopped having sexual iintercourse with women, from 19-21 years of age.  Prior to that, I was what Christians call a “fornicator” which means a person who has unlawful sexual activity, but in their terms, and my belief at the time, it also includes having sex before marriage.  They claim this is displeasing to God and has Biblical/Scriptural/Church backing as true.  

[Guyver]

Having said that, I would like to say that the Bible condemns not only fornication, or sex before marriage, but it also condemns adultery, homosexuality, lesbianism, beastiality, witchcraft, sorcery, and rebellion as crimes punishable by death, according to the Old Testament of the Bible.

[Crazy Horse]

On 1/15/2023 at 2:42 PM, Wistman said:

Get a grip.  Your response to my post was to question me.  I did the same to you.  Fair's fair, bud.

And to boot, your question was inane.  Not an 'interpretation' of Yeats's most famous and incisive poem, which doesn't have a hundred different meanings unless as a blind or excuse to not hear or accept what the poem has to say.  Your trite question to me in response to it was nothing more than a dodge on your part, not being willing to address how Yeats's poetic review of the actual sordid history of christian humanity and its patterns of violence and extermination dampens your view of the power of god and love over fear and greed.   Yours was a limp and hardly worthy comment on the content of that poem and how it addressed your theme. 

pfffft.  

"The best lack all conviction" was the only thing I was pointing-put, as total BS.

But you somehow turned that into my, "not being willing to address Yeats poetic review of the actual sordid history of Christianity..."

Mate, its you who needs to get a grip!

[+Desertrat56]

11 hours ago, Guyver said:

No one liked my Jonny Lang?  What a bummer.  That’s one of my favorites.  Anyway, since I see that a couple threads got closed for preaching, and these folks do t really preach that well, I thought I would take their side and give some props to the power of religion.  Religion can change one’s life and make them stop doing things that are “bad” even to the deepest levels.  For example, due to religious beliefs people can stop smoking, drinking, cussing, doing drugs and having sex.  During my prime years of sexual potency possibly, and probably, I went celebrate for three years.  Due to a “vow” that was really a deal I made with God, I stopped having sexual iintercourse with women, from 19-21 years of age.  Prior to that, I was what Christians call a “fornicator” which means a person who has unlawful sexual activity, but in their terms, and my belief at the time, it also includes having sex before marriage.  They claim this is displeasing to God and has Biblical/Scriptural/Church backing as true.  

So you think it is a good thing for people to replace their addictions with religion?   I think it can be good, I watched my drug addict cousin do it and when she was clean and religious she was able to have a conversation somewhat better than when she was on drugs.  However the converstation always revolved around her religion and there was still no reasoning with her about reality (paying bills, taking care of her kids etc).   So it can give someone motivation, but is it really helping?   Trade one addiction that makes you feel like a substandard human and replace it with a belief system that insists you are a substandard human?   No, I don't agree with it being helpful the way you describe.   It is just trading one destrcutive addiction for a more socially acceptable destructive addiction.

[+Hammerclaw]

Oh yes, you just have to pity these poor people, struggling with such a debilitating addiction.

 

[eight bits]

Oh, we're doing thanksgiving hymns. This video was recorded at a NYC CD signing (you remember compact discs) by the Broadway cast of Godspell. Telly Leung sings, Hunter Parrish does the spoken word portion. "All Good Gifts" is a setting by  Stephen Schwartz of two verses, plus refrains, from "We Plough the Fields and Scatter", an English translation by  Jane M. Campbel of the German hymn, "Wir Pflügen und Wir Streuen" written by Matthias Claudius in 1782.

 

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

So you think it is a good thing for people to replace their addictions with religion?   I think it can be good, I watched my drug addict cousin do it and when she was clean and religious she was able to have a conversation somewhat better than when she was on drugs.  However the converstation always revolved around her religion and there was still no reasoning with her about reality (paying bills, taking care of her kids etc).   So it can give someone motivation, but is it really helping?   Trade one addiction that makes you feel like a substandard human and replace it with a belief system that insists you are a substandard human?   No, I don't agree with it being helpful the way you describe.   It is just trading one destrcutive addiction for a more socially acceptable destructive addiction.

A fun aside from my son who is a Head Football Coach and English teacher something he tells his players and kids is that discipline trumps motivation. Your example illustrates this very well. Being motivated is temporary and often self serving, discipline is the quality of giving 110 percent across the board, regardless of endeavor. 

[+Sherapy]

On 1/6/2023 at 10:13 PM, Guyver said:

So, I just got the news that a first grader, a six year old male, in Virginia, shot his teacher in school today.  She is in critical condition, I do not know what has happened to the child…..but this story, along with a myriad of others, has got me thinking about what a murderous, disgusting world this is at some levels.  
 

It makes me think about how Christians explain it.  According to Christians, some that is, not all…this world actually belongs to Satan.  He won it when he defeated Jesus on the cross.  Now, according to some Christians and their interpretation of the Bible, the Devil is running this world right now, and he will blind the minds of people so that they will not believe in the gospel.  Then really bad things will happen, and the tribulation period will occur and basically kill almost all of us. This is the way they process the evil things that happen in the world.

For me, since I don’t believe the Bible, the only explanation I have is that this world is brutal on many levels, and this is by nature.  What do you think about the idea that it is the Devil who is causing the worlds problems?

The devil argument is on par with the g?d of gaps argument a way to minimize the seriousness of the need for a real time solution. It really doesn’t offer any practical advice for proactive measures towards prevention. Why did a 6 year old have access to a gun and know how to shoot it? There in lies the problem. 

 

On 1/6/2023 at 10:13 PM, Guyver said:

So, I just got the news that a first grader, a six year old male, in Virginia, shot his teacher in school today.  She is in critical condition, I do not know what has happened to the child…..but this story, along with a myriad of others, has got me thinking about what a murderous, disgusting world this is at some levels.  
 

It makes me think about how Christians explain it.  According to Christians, some that is, not all…this world actually belongs to Satan.  He won it when he defeated Jesus on the cross.  Now, according to some Christians and their interpretation of the Bible, the Devil is running this world right now, and he will blind the minds of people so that they will not believe in the gospel.  Then really bad things will happen, and the tribulation period will occur and basically kill almost all of us. This is the way they process the evil things that happen in the world.

For me, since I don’t believe the Bible, the only explanation I have is that this world is brutal on many levels, and this is by nature.  What do you think about the idea that it is the Devil who is causing the worlds problems?

 

[openozy]

22 hours ago, Guyver said:

Due to a “vow” that was really a deal I made with God, I stopped having sexual iintercourse with women, from 19-21 years of age

I think m********ion is a sin too, so at that age you would be surely going to hell either way, , lol. Or was it you were allowed sex with anyone over 21 or under 19? 

Edited January 18, 2023 by openozy

[Guyver]

1 hour ago, openozy said:

I think m********ion is a sin too, so at that age you would be surely going to hell either way, , lol. Or was it you were allowed sex with anyone over 21 or under 19? 

Yes sir.  I think you are correct on that first part.  Now, the age thing, that’s really interesting because if I’m not mistaken, the Mother of Jesus, aka, the Virgin Mary, or the Mother of God, or the Blessed Mary Ever Virgin, or whatever title from a myriad you would like to chose, was no more than 15 years old by the time she wed.  And, according to Jewish custom, she would have been betrothed for a significant period of time prior to that, which would have made her even younger.  
 

In the United States of American not more than the time of the beginning of rock music with Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, Buddy Holly, et Al before the Beatles, it was common for people to wed at 13-15 years of age with consent of their parents.  So, I think an argument could be made that Biblically speaking, young women marrying older men was a very common thing and socially/morally accepted.

[Guyver]

May I ask a question of you fine folk?  Do you consider marijuana a drug?  Is alcohol a drug?  Is coffee and cigarettes a drug?

[Will Due]

3 hours ago, Guyver said:

May I ask a question of you fine folk?  Do you consider marijuana a drug?  Is alcohol a drug?  Is coffee and cigarettes a drug?

 

I think the better question is: are drugs poisonous? And if they are, why ingest them?

"All physical poisons greatly retard the efforts to exalt the material mind, while the mental poisons of fear, anger, envy, jealousy, suspicion, and intolerance likewise tremendously interfere with the spiritual progress of the evolving soul.

 

 

[eight bits]

5 hours ago, Guyver said:

May I ask a question of you fine folk?  Do you consider marijuana a drug?  Is alcohol a drug?  Is coffee and cigarettes a drug?

Yes, drugs (alcohol) or drug delivery systems (marijuana, cigarettes, and coffee).

I am sipping on a cup of coffee right now. That's not because my tongue is cold.

[+Hammerclaw]

A drug is any chemical substance that causes a change in an organism's physiology or psychology when consumed. 

[+Desertrat56]

10 hours ago, Guyver said:

May I ask a question of you fine folk?  Do you consider marijuana a drug?  Is alcohol a drug?  Is coffee and cigarettes a drug?

Yes Alcohol and marijuana are drugs, coffee and cigarettes are addictive mind altering substances.  At one time they were both used like we use medicine but that was a long time ago.

[Guyver]

You know, I’m just thinking out loud but…I remember this tactic the Evangelical Christians used on me in my home town, where they said, “Well, you just want to be your own God, don’t you?”  They used nit all the time.  They make it seem as if it’s a shameful question to answer.  Well, now that I’m older…yeah…if I had to choose the God of the Bible or myself, now I would choose myself.  You can pray to whatever you want but it’s not going to change the random output.