How Conservatives Became Karens

[Knob Oddy]

Just now, HSlim said:

Or I just don't have the time or energy for someone who says something asinine like people enslaved being "lucky".

No, the enslaved people were not lucky. But of those enslaved by the kings of Dehomey, those transported away from the Dahomey kingdom were much better off than those who stayed.

Have you seen Ghana today? Would you rather be born there or New Orleans?

[HSlim]

Just now, Knob Oddy said:

No, the enslaved people were not lucky. But of those enslaved by the kings of Dehomey, those transported away from the Dahomey kingdom were much better off than those who stayed.

Have you seen Ghana today? Would you rather be born there or New Orleans?

Your words homie, not mine.    Cheers.

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, HSlim said:

In that sense yes, it was a form of slavery.  Still, not like taking entire families

Hi HSlim

African slavers didn’t always take whole families as they were looking for good breeding stock as well so would take men or women that fit the profile they were looking for.

[HSlim]

1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi HSlim

African slavers didn’t always take whole families as they were looking for good breeding stock as well so would take men or women that fit the profile they were looking for.

No not always but they did and they did so with regularity.  As well as kept children enslaved and forcing them to work as soon as they were old enough to hold a basket.  I'm not saying shanghaiing was good or anything like that either, just that it's not the same ballgame as American slavery

[Knob Oddy]

1 minute ago, HSlim said:

Your words homie, not mine.    Cheers.

Ok, if you want me to use those words i will. Of all of the Dehomey slaves, the "luckier" slaves were transported FAR away from the kings of Dahomey. The ones that remained did not fair as well as those who were transported. 

Just as my family (which i can trace back to 1066) were the "luckier" of the Saxons after the Norman invasion. The Saxons were overall very unfortunate to have to live under the Normans, but my family survived it where as many others did not. 

 

[+Desertrat56]

12 minutes ago, HSlim said:

That's not really the same though.  US slavery wasn't just a dude who got drunk in a bar, it was entire families being taken and enslaved

No, sometimes it was someone walking down a street in the dark on their way home getting knocked in the head and thrown on a ship and sold to someone on another continent or some island off the coast of another continent.   You are confused if you think that didn't happen to people who ended up in the U.S.  

[HSlim]

1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

No, sometimes it was someone walking down a street in the dark on their way home getting knocked in the head and thrown on a ship and sold to someone on another continent or some island off the coast of another continent.   You are confused if you think that didn't happen to people who ended up in the U.S.  

I'm not saying it didn't.  I'm speaking more along the lines of institutionalized slavery, but yes that absolutely did happen to people who ended up in the US.  Savannah, GA is proof of that

Edited January 11, 2023 by HSlim

[+Desertrat56]

2 minutes ago, HSlim said:

I'm not saying it didn't.  I'm speaking more along the lines of institutionalized slavery, but yes that absolutely did happen to people who ended up in the US.  Savannah, GA is proof of that

I think the sea captains that sold slaves didn't do it randomly, they would have a full cargo when they left any port.   That seems "institutionalized" to me.  But then, I may not understand what you are saying when you use that word.   

[HSlim]

Just now, Desertrat56 said:

I think the sea captains that sold slaves didn't do it randomly, they would have a full cargo when they left any port.   That seems "institutionalized" to me.  But then, I may not understand what you are saying when you use that word.   

Government supported slavery of the sort that required a constitutional amendment to abolish

[Poncho_Peanatus]

slavery is bad!

[+Liquid Gardens]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

The English Puritans had a blast selling any Scot or Irish person who didn't agree with them. A papal bull made it based on whether you were a Christian or not. Romans sold Germans and Celts. Celts sold other Celts. It became race based at a later date.

American slavery seems to be up there though as far as 'the worst'.  It may not be that big a difference as far as workload, but slavery being hereditary (the children of slaves are slaves and can be sold away) seems like something that was fairly rare.  We weren't the only ones to have race-based slavery but that type is especially bad; you're not a slave because you were conquered or in debt but because you are of an inferior people.  That and we were not exactly on the forefront of abolishing it in the western world.  The complexities (and hypocritical bs) of 'the Land of Liberty' I guess...

[+Desertrat56]

2 minutes ago, HSlim said:

Government supported slavery of the sort that required a constitutional amendment to abolish

Oh, well in that case all of it was institutional, as the buyers did not care where the slaves came from and the ships that brought them were not doing anything "illegal" no matter how they got the people they sold.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Desertrat56

[Piney]

10 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

No, sometimes it was someone walking down a street in the dark on their way home getting knocked in the head and thrown on a ship and sold to someone on another continent or some island off the coast of another continent.   You are confused if you think that didn't happen to people who ended up in the U.S.  

My people, the Nanticoke were raided by Marylanders.

[+Liquid Gardens]

2 hours ago, Knob Oddy said:

Yes, capitalism is the worst system except for all the others.

No other system has lifted so many people out of poverty.

I don't know if any other system has put more people into poverty/bankruptcy because of medical bills either.

[Knob Oddy]

7 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

American slavery seems to be up there though as far as 'the worst'.  It may not be that big a difference as far as workload, but slavery being hereditary (the children of slaves are slaves and can be sold away) seems like something that was fairly rare.  We weren't the only ones to have race-based slavery but that type is especially bad; you're not a slave because you were conquered or in debt but because you are of an inferior people.  That and we were not exactly on the forefront of abolishing it in the western world.  The complexities (and hypocritical bs) of 'the Land of Liberty' I guess...

Were the Jews not slaves in Egypt for generations? 

How was American slavery different to any other time period? It can't be because they had majority African slaves, because that's the case in Yemen, with the decedents of slaves being at war with US allies to this day.

It cant be more brutal than say the Chinese slave trade, where only male slaves were allowed, after castration. This meant at least as many slaves died during castration as were landed in china.

It can't be scale, almost 3 times the amount of slaves that landed in America were landed in Iran over 900 years.

How is America exceptional for it's slavery? Belief that they were a "superior race"? Yeah, that sounds like the ottomans with their Greek and Romanian slaves.....

Edited January 11, 2023 by Knob Oddy

[+Desertrat56]

16 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

American slavery seems to be up there though as far as 'the worst'.  It may not be that big a difference as far as workload, but slavery being hereditary (the children of slaves are slaves and can be sold away) seems like something that was fairly rare.  We weren't the only ones to have race-based slavery but that type is especially bad; you're not a slave because you were conquered or in debt but because you are of an inferior people.  That and we were not exactly on the forefront of abolishing it in the western world.  The complexities (and hypocritical bs) of 'the Land of Liberty' I guess...

Wait, you think that the greeks, romans and vikings didn't keep the children of the slaves as slaves?   I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say, and no, the conversation has been that even in the U.S. the slaves trade was not "race-based".   

Edited January 11, 2023 by Desertrat56

[Knob Oddy]

3 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I don't know if any other system has put more people into poverty/bankruptcy because of medical bills either.

Well, you could always have communism, then your doctor might be free, but your health will suffer due to their lack of training and reward for doing the job.

What is your alternative to capitalism and why do you think it could work?

[+OverSword]

What is this thread again?  Right winged Karens enslaved by the Chinese?  Yeah, that's it 

[Knob Oddy]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

What is this thread again?  Right winged Karens enslaved by the Chinese?  Yeah, that's it 

How dare you bring this back to topic! Can i speak with your manager?!

[Ell]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

Cuffee Padgett Cuff

That is an interesting name. As an aside: are you perchance able to enlighten me as to the meaning of those names?

Edited January 11, 2023 by Ell

[Billyf]

I think this thread got slightly off topic lol 

[Tatetopa]

Well I guess we are seeing in real time how conservatives become Karens.

I heard part of Zinke's speech about the deep state wanting to eradicate cowboys and turn Montana into a national park.  BS.  I still have in-laws in Montana and Wyoming. Its hard to make a living as a rancher in Wyoming much less a cowboy. A cowboy making $400 a week with no insurance has trouble paying for 20 stitches to close an open wound, much less having your thumb reconstructed or screws and plates put in your spine after it is broken getting thrown.  A rancher sometimes makes more leasing his land to wind farms and keeps cattle as a hobby. A lot of Montana land owners find tourism much more lucrative than logging or ranching. Hunting, fishing, hiking, rockhounding, backpacking, and trail riding all bring money into Montana coffers.

Being a cowboy is a great hobby or part time activity if you have another source of income.

But it is heroic to be fighting big bad enemies like the deep state and woke liberals.  Dealing with economics that make your job irrelevant, not so much.   Far better to blame the deep state than multinational companies who make more money raising cattle in Argentina or Brazil or in feedlots.   Ryan can't attack those folks, they are donors. 

Ironic that woke liberals are probably bigger customers for grass fed beef than conservatives, especially those that shop at Walmart or any of the big chains. 

[Ell]

50 minutes ago, HSlim said:

In that sense yes, it was a form of slavery.  Still, not like taking entire families and keeping that entire family and their descendants enslaved for well over 100 years in the US alone

You live in a bubble of your own preferred definitions.

[HSlim]

Just now, Ell said:

You live in a bubble of your own preferred definitions.

Mmkay

[+Liquid Gardens]

18 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Wait, you think that the greeks, romans and vikings didn't keep the children of the slaves as slaves?   I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say, and no, the conversation has been that even in the U.S. the slaves trade was not "race-based".   

I did say 'up there with the worst', not 'the worst'.  There are other kinds of slavery, debt slavery being a popular one, which is not necessarily permanent and seems to be 'better' over all than the chattel slavery we had.  The slaves trade in the US was not solely 'race-based' but the majority of and definitely the worst of it was, no matter what the 'conversation' thinks.

Here's a link explaining for example the differences between slavery of the Irish and slavery of blacks in the US, they look significant to me:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/18/fact-check-irish-were-indentured-servants-not-slaves/3198590001/