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Skara Brae represents Sirius


The Puzzler

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2 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Tbh it’s it’s own thread and my theory doesn’t even involve them really, just that they knew of Sirius too.

BUT how do two French Anthropologists in the 1930’s record this info from the Dogon when it wasn’t even photographed by telescopes until the 1970? That’s what doesn’t make sense if you think the French archaeologists knew about it…in 1930’s…
I don’t believe your opinion, that’s all.

5B2CA08D-6B1C-42C7-AB5F-916214052945.jpeg

The Dogon's supposed info on Sirius matched EXACTLY the info of the Europeans at the time.
Both were wrong, by the way.
The likeliest explanation for this match is that Graiule himself prompted the info from the Dogon in his enthusiasm for the idea.

However, the Dogon were not an isolated tribe (as they are usually depicted by the fringe.) Many of them served alongside Europeans in WWI, and there were Dogon tribe members that were educated in England.

Harte

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19 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Point is, you were wrong as to what the genetic evidence is. And alignments of other sights are predominantly solar, meaning that any connection with Sirius is incidental at best. 
 

cormac

Seemingly incidental.

https://mythicalireland.com/blogs/astronomy/sirius-the-dog-star-shone-into-newgrange-when-it-was-built

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14 minutes ago, Harte said:

The Dogon's supposed info on Sirius matched EXACTLY the info of the Europeans at the time.
Both were wrong, by the way.
The likeliest explanation for this match is that Graiule himself prompted the info from the Dogon in his enthusiasm for the idea.

However, the Dogon were not an isolated tribe (as they are usually depicted by the fringe.) Many of them served alongside Europeans in WWI, and there were Dogon tribe members that were educated in England.

Harte

I see.

Either way, the idea is not reliant on them, whether they did or didn’t. 

Edited by The Puzzler
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To conclude, the above arguments suggest that the building of the structures of Göbekli Tepe were related in some way to the appearance of a brilliant “guest” star in the sky: Sirius. This would imply that the birth of monumental architecture was related to the observation of the celestial cycles since the very beginning. Of course, although fascinating, such an hypothesis must be taken with due caution, as the author is well aware that this it is still in the speculative realm. However, there are concrete hopes of putting the idea to the test in the near future. First of all, new and more precise dates for the relative chronology of the existing structures will probably be available, allowing us to situate Enclosure E in a more accurate time scale, as well as to fine-tune the dating of the other structures. Further—hopefully—new enclosures will be brought to light: actually, at the moment of writing, a new structure (Enclosure H) is under active excavation (Dietrich et al. 2014).

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00004-015-0277-1

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7 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

Yep, incidental as while it’s original use lasted around a millennium your link shows Sirius relevance only lasted about 200 years. 
 

cormac

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Just before the Neolithic we have a bright new star, a second sun in some terms, being born, a son of the Sun.

This gave people a precise timeframe of when the solstice was going to appear.

Id say it was pretty important.

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3 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Yep, incidental as while it’s original use lasted around a millennium your link shows Sirius relevance only lasted about 200 years. 
 

cormac

It moved out of view of the said opening but it was apparently built when it was in view. 

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12 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

It moved out of view of the said opening but it was apparently built when it was in view. 

I am awaiting for the dr. Who Gobleki Tepi episode that supports that position.

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1 hour ago, Ell said:

I am awaiting for the dr. Who Gobleki Tepi episode that supports that position.

That was Newgrange in the article I showed, saying it was built to incorporate Sirius in the view box.

The Gobekli Tepe thing is interesting though.
 

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3 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

To conclude, the above arguments suggest that the building of the structures of Göbekli Tepe were related in some way to the appearance of a brilliant “guest” star in the sky: Sirius. This would imply that the birth of monumental architecture was related to the observation of the celestial cycles since the very beginning. Of course, although fascinating, such an hypothesis must be taken with due caution, as the author is well aware that this it is still in the speculative realm. However, there are concrete hopes of putting the idea to the test in the near future. First of all, new and more precise dates for the relative chronology of the existing structures will probably be available, allowing us to situate Enclosure E in a more accurate time scale, as well as to fine-tune the dating of the other structures. Further—hopefully—new enclosures will be brought to light: actually, at the moment of writing, a new structure (Enclosure H) is under active excavation (Dietrich et al. 2014).

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00004-015-0277-1

I may very well be wrong, but I thought they weren't going to uncover any more identified enclosures to protect them? Seeing that the citation was from 9 years ago, has there been further excavation of other enclosures?

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3 hours ago, Ell said:

I am awaiting for the dr. Who Gobleki Tepi episode that supports that position.

I know exactly which villain they should reprise for that proposed episode.

 

Sutekh_2.webp.9d4a356f18847df1d3b5740e3b88a3d9.webp

 

 

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5 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

Yep, incidental as while it’s original use lasted around a millennium your link shows Sirius relevance only lasted about 200 years. 

5 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

It moved out of view of the said opening but it was apparently built when it was in view. 

It only works at all if you accept 3150 BC as a secure construction date.  Any older, even a few decades, and it doesn't work: pure coincidence.

I've been to Newgrange, and climbed all over the (life size model of the) chamber.  I can well imagine the magic of the midwinter sun illuminating the passageway.  I can't quite visualise the light of a single star having the same effect...

The 'evidence' according to Puzzler's link is three circles carved in a kerbstone, apparently to represent Orion.  This is rather undermined by the same paragraph which admits there are several other identical patterns on the same stone.  Can they all be Orions?

Also: suppose there is a cultural link between Gobekli Tepe and Newgrange...  What were our ancient ancestors doing for the five thousand years/200 generations between the one closing and the other opening?

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1 hour ago, Tom1200 said:

  What were our ancient ancestors doing for the five thousand years/200 generations between the one closing and the other opening?

Trying to rectify the cultural differences between the North and the South and judging the cost effectiveness of deporting the entire Midlands. :whistle:

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I wouldn't think it at all surprising that paleolithic groups marked the solstices.
I would assume they did. It's not very hard to do, and even easier to notice it happening.

Harte

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13 hours ago, Trelane said:

I may very well be wrong, but I thought they weren't going to uncover any more identified enclosures to protect them? Seeing that the citation was from 9 years ago, has there been further excavation of other enclosures?

I’ll check 

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16 hours ago, Tom1200 said:

What were our ancient ancestors doing for the five thousand years/200 generations between the one closing and the other opening?

Well, travelling to Newgrange of course!

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2 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Well, travelling to Newgrange of course!

Via the Goseck Circle of course.

 

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13 hours ago, Harte said:

I wouldn't think it at all surprising that paleolithic groups marked the solstices.
I would assume they did. It's not very hard to do, and even easier to notice it happening.

Harte

The solstice does not mark the seasons used for Neolithic planting, nor do I think they are so easy to mark, without a marker. 
if it’s so important…why is the Egyptian calendar aligned with the heliacal rising of Sirius and not  the Sun?

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1 hour ago, The Puzzler said:

The solstice does not mark the seasons used for Neolithic planting, nor do I think they are so easy to mark, without a marker. 
if it’s so important…why is the Egyptian calendar aligned with the heliacal rising of Sirius and not  the Sun?

I remember reading it had to do with the Nile. When it started flooding and by that furtilizing the fields of the farmers.

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5 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

The solstice does not mark the seasons used for Neolithic planting, nor do I think they are so easy to mark, without a marker. 
if it’s so important…why is the Egyptian calendar aligned with the heliacal rising of Sirius and not  the Sun?

The annual Nile floods?

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8 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Via the Goseck Circle of course.

 

Is there some kind of cultural connection between Göbekli Tepe and the Goseck Circle? Except that Goseck is inbetween Göbekli Tepe and Newgrange, with which there is also no known cultural similarity?

Connecting dots is not your thing, Puzz.

You'd connect Japan with Scotland just by the way they both  say "yes".

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10 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

The solstice does not mark the seasons used for Neolithic planting, nor do I think they are so easy to mark, without a marker. 
if it’s so important…why is the Egyptian calendar aligned with the heliacal rising of Sirius and not  the Sun?

Doesn't matter - it's mystical and verifiably periodic.
What else was there to do when you weren't sleeping, eating or mating at night?
Not like they could put on Family Guy.

Harte

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Say you're a guy back then that likes to watch the sunrise. A couple of years after doing this from the same location and you notice the pattern. The next time the Sun rises at the other end of the range you noted, you start counting days by dropping pebbles in a bag.

Doesn't matter if you miss lots of sunrises, as long as you keep with the pebble each day because you already know it takes plenty of days.

When the sunrise reaches the other end of the range, you count the pebbles.
Voila! You marked the solstices.
So you paint that number of dots on some cave wall or something for, you know, Paleolithic Posterity.

Harte

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On 1/29/2023 at 6:51 AM, Abramelin said:

Is there some kind of cultural connection between Göbekli Tepe and the Goseck Circle? Except that Goseck is inbetween Göbekli Tepe and Newgrange, with which there is also no known cultural similarity?

Connecting dots is not your thing, Puzz.

You'd connect Japan with Scotland just by the way they both  say "yes".

I was adding to the joke….

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