Harte Posted January 27, 2023 #351 Share Posted January 27, 2023 2 hours ago, The Puzzler said: Tbh it’s it’s own thread and my theory doesn’t even involve them really, just that they knew of Sirius too. BUT how do two French Anthropologists in the 1930’s record this info from the Dogon when it wasn’t even photographed by telescopes until the 1970? That’s what doesn’t make sense if you think the French archaeologists knew about it…in 1930’s… I don’t believe your opinion, that’s all. The Dogon's supposed info on Sirius matched EXACTLY the info of the Europeans at the time. Both were wrong, by the way. The likeliest explanation for this match is that Graiule himself prompted the info from the Dogon in his enthusiasm for the idea. However, the Dogon were not an isolated tribe (as they are usually depicted by the fringe.) Many of them served alongside Europeans in WWI, and there were Dogon tribe members that were educated in England. Harte 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted January 27, 2023 Author #352 Share Posted January 27, 2023 19 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said: Point is, you were wrong as to what the genetic evidence is. And alignments of other sights are predominantly solar, meaning that any connection with Sirius is incidental at best. cormac Seemingly incidental. https://mythicalireland.com/blogs/astronomy/sirius-the-dog-star-shone-into-newgrange-when-it-was-built Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted January 27, 2023 Author #353 Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Harte said: The Dogon's supposed info on Sirius matched EXACTLY the info of the Europeans at the time. Both were wrong, by the way. The likeliest explanation for this match is that Graiule himself prompted the info from the Dogon in his enthusiasm for the idea. However, the Dogon were not an isolated tribe (as they are usually depicted by the fringe.) Many of them served alongside Europeans in WWI, and there were Dogon tribe members that were educated in England. Harte I see. Either way, the idea is not reliant on them, whether they did or didn’t. Edited January 27, 2023 by The Puzzler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted January 27, 2023 Author #354 Share Posted January 27, 2023 To conclude, the above arguments suggest that the building of the structures of Göbekli Tepe were related in some way to the appearance of a brilliant “guest” star in the sky: Sirius. This would imply that the birth of monumental architecture was related to the observation of the celestial cycles since the very beginning. Of course, although fascinating, such an hypothesis must be taken with due caution, as the author is well aware that this it is still in the speculative realm. However, there are concrete hopes of putting the idea to the test in the near future. First of all, new and more precise dates for the relative chronology of the existing structures will probably be available, allowing us to situate Enclosure E in a more accurate time scale, as well as to fine-tune the dating of the other structures. Further—hopefully—new enclosures will be brought to light: actually, at the moment of writing, a new structure (Enclosure H) is under active excavation (Dietrich et al. 2014). https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00004-015-0277-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted January 27, 2023 #355 Share Posted January 27, 2023 7 minutes ago, The Puzzler said: Seemingly incidental. https://mythicalireland.com/blogs/astronomy/sirius-the-dog-star-shone-into-newgrange-when-it-was-built Yep, incidental as while it’s original use lasted around a millennium your link shows Sirius relevance only lasted about 200 years. cormac 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted January 27, 2023 Author #356 Share Posted January 27, 2023 Just before the Neolithic we have a bright new star, a second sun in some terms, being born, a son of the Sun. This gave people a precise timeframe of when the solstice was going to appear. Id say it was pretty important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted January 27, 2023 Author #357 Share Posted January 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said: Yep, incidental as while it’s original use lasted around a millennium your link shows Sirius relevance only lasted about 200 years. cormac It moved out of view of the said opening but it was apparently built when it was in view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ell Posted January 27, 2023 #358 Share Posted January 27, 2023 12 minutes ago, The Puzzler said: It moved out of view of the said opening but it was apparently built when it was in view. I am awaiting for the dr. Who Gobleki Tepi episode that supports that position. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted January 27, 2023 Author #359 Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Ell said: I am awaiting for the dr. Who Gobleki Tepi episode that supports that position. That was Newgrange in the article I showed, saying it was built to incorporate Sirius in the view box. The Gobekli Tepe thing is interesting though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted January 27, 2023 #360 Share Posted January 27, 2023 3 hours ago, The Puzzler said: To conclude, the above arguments suggest that the building of the structures of Göbekli Tepe were related in some way to the appearance of a brilliant “guest” star in the sky: Sirius. This would imply that the birth of monumental architecture was related to the observation of the celestial cycles since the very beginning. Of course, although fascinating, such an hypothesis must be taken with due caution, as the author is well aware that this it is still in the speculative realm. However, there are concrete hopes of putting the idea to the test in the near future. First of all, new and more precise dates for the relative chronology of the existing structures will probably be available, allowing us to situate Enclosure E in a more accurate time scale, as well as to fine-tune the dating of the other structures. Further—hopefully—new enclosures will be brought to light: actually, at the moment of writing, a new structure (Enclosure H) is under active excavation (Dietrich et al. 2014). https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00004-015-0277-1 I may very well be wrong, but I thought they weren't going to uncover any more identified enclosures to protect them? Seeing that the citation was from 9 years ago, has there been further excavation of other enclosures? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted January 27, 2023 #361 Share Posted January 27, 2023 3 hours ago, Ell said: I am awaiting for the dr. Who Gobleki Tepi episode that supports that position. I know exactly which villain they should reprise for that proposed episode. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1200 Posted January 27, 2023 #362 Share Posted January 27, 2023 5 hours ago, cormac mac airt said: Yep, incidental as while it’s original use lasted around a millennium your link shows Sirius relevance only lasted about 200 years. 5 hours ago, The Puzzler said: It moved out of view of the said opening but it was apparently built when it was in view. It only works at all if you accept 3150 BC as a secure construction date. Any older, even a few decades, and it doesn't work: pure coincidence. I've been to Newgrange, and climbed all over the (life size model of the) chamber. I can well imagine the magic of the midwinter sun illuminating the passageway. I can't quite visualise the light of a single star having the same effect... The 'evidence' according to Puzzler's link is three circles carved in a kerbstone, apparently to represent Orion. This is rather undermined by the same paragraph which admits there are several other identical patterns on the same stone. Can they all be Orions? Also: suppose there is a cultural link between Gobekli Tepe and Newgrange... What were our ancient ancestors doing for the five thousand years/200 generations between the one closing and the other opening? 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted January 27, 2023 #363 Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Tom1200 said: What were our ancient ancestors doing for the five thousand years/200 generations between the one closing and the other opening? Trying to rectify the cultural differences between the North and the South and judging the cost effectiveness of deporting the entire Midlands. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted January 27, 2023 #364 Share Posted January 27, 2023 I wouldn't think it at all surprising that paleolithic groups marked the solstices. I would assume they did. It's not very hard to do, and even easier to notice it happening. Harte 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted January 28, 2023 Author #365 Share Posted January 28, 2023 13 hours ago, Trelane said: I may very well be wrong, but I thought they weren't going to uncover any more identified enclosures to protect them? Seeing that the citation was from 9 years ago, has there been further excavation of other enclosures? I’ll check 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted January 28, 2023 #366 Share Posted January 28, 2023 16 hours ago, Tom1200 said: What were our ancient ancestors doing for the five thousand years/200 generations between the one closing and the other opening? Well, travelling to Newgrange of course! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted January 28, 2023 Author #367 Share Posted January 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Abramelin said: Well, travelling to Newgrange of course! Via the Goseck Circle of course. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted January 28, 2023 Author #368 Share Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, Harte said: I wouldn't think it at all surprising that paleolithic groups marked the solstices. I would assume they did. It's not very hard to do, and even easier to notice it happening. Harte The solstice does not mark the seasons used for Neolithic planting, nor do I think they are so easy to mark, without a marker. if it’s so important…why is the Egyptian calendar aligned with the heliacal rising of Sirius and not the Sun? Edited January 28, 2023 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted January 28, 2023 #369 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 hour ago, The Puzzler said: The solstice does not mark the seasons used for Neolithic planting, nor do I think they are so easy to mark, without a marker. if it’s so important…why is the Egyptian calendar aligned with the heliacal rising of Sirius and not the Sun? I remember reading it had to do with the Nile. When it started flooding and by that furtilizing the fields of the farmers. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted January 28, 2023 #370 Share Posted January 28, 2023 5 hours ago, The Puzzler said: The solstice does not mark the seasons used for Neolithic planting, nor do I think they are so easy to mark, without a marker. if it’s so important…why is the Egyptian calendar aligned with the heliacal rising of Sirius and not the Sun? The annual Nile floods? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted January 28, 2023 #371 Share Posted January 28, 2023 21 minutes ago, Piney said: The annual Nile floods? That's it: https://www.interlochenpublicradio.org/news/2019-08-26/sirius-and-the-flooding-of-the-nile-this-week-on-the-storytellers-night-sky https://www.academia.edu/9838100/Heliacal_rising_of_Sirius_and_flooding_of_the_Nile 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted January 28, 2023 #372 Share Posted January 28, 2023 8 hours ago, The Puzzler said: Via the Goseck Circle of course. Is there some kind of cultural connection between Göbekli Tepe and the Goseck Circle? Except that Goseck is inbetween Göbekli Tepe and Newgrange, with which there is also no known cultural similarity? Connecting dots is not your thing, Puzz. You'd connect Japan with Scotland just by the way they both say "yes". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted January 28, 2023 #373 Share Posted January 28, 2023 10 hours ago, The Puzzler said: The solstice does not mark the seasons used for Neolithic planting, nor do I think they are so easy to mark, without a marker. if it’s so important…why is the Egyptian calendar aligned with the heliacal rising of Sirius and not the Sun? Doesn't matter - it's mystical and verifiably periodic. What else was there to do when you weren't sleeping, eating or mating at night? Not like they could put on Family Guy. Harte 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted January 29, 2023 #374 Share Posted January 29, 2023 Say you're a guy back then that likes to watch the sunrise. A couple of years after doing this from the same location and you notice the pattern. The next time the Sun rises at the other end of the range you noted, you start counting days by dropping pebbles in a bag. Doesn't matter if you miss lots of sunrises, as long as you keep with the pebble each day because you already know it takes plenty of days. When the sunrise reaches the other end of the range, you count the pebbles. Voila! You marked the solstices. So you paint that number of dots on some cave wall or something for, you know, Paleolithic Posterity. Harte 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted January 30, 2023 Author #375 Share Posted January 30, 2023 On 1/29/2023 at 6:51 AM, Abramelin said: Is there some kind of cultural connection between Göbekli Tepe and the Goseck Circle? Except that Goseck is inbetween Göbekli Tepe and Newgrange, with which there is also no known cultural similarity? Connecting dots is not your thing, Puzz. You'd connect Japan with Scotland just by the way they both say "yes". I was adding to the joke…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now