Sir Wearer of Hats Posted January 16, 2023 #101 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Someone elsewhere said that Trump stored his documents in an approved (and documented as secure with/by the FBI) “secure location”. Is there any other reference to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted January 16, 2023 #102 Share Posted January 16, 2023 10 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: Someone elsewhere said that Trump stored his documents in an approved (and documented as secure with/by the FBI) “secure location”. Is there any other reference to that? I’d be interested to know as well since putting classified documents in one’s locked garage most certainly DOES NOT qualify as an approved secure location. cormac 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted January 16, 2023 #103 Share Posted January 16, 2023 16 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said: I’d be interested to know as well since putting classified documents in one’s locked garage most certainly DOES NOT qualify as an approved secure location. cormac Yes, to the laymen for sure but for democrats that's just something Old Joe does. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted January 16, 2023 #104 Share Posted January 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, F3SS said: Yes, to the laymen for sure but for democrats that's just something Old Joe does. Well, Biden can pay the penalty just the same as Trump can. cormac 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted January 17, 2023 #105 Share Posted January 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: Someone elsewhere said that Trump stored his documents in an approved (and documented as secure with/by the FBI) “secure location”. Is there any other reference to that? Is this what you are referring to? On June 3, 2022, the Justice Department sent counterintelligence chief Jay I. Bratt and three FBI agents to Mar-a-Lago to retrieve the documents requested in the subpoena and meet with Trump's legal team.[13] At the meeting, Christina Bobb, the Custodian of Records for purposes of the subpoena, gave a signed letter to the Justice Department certifying that a diligent search had been conducted and all documents responsive to the subpoena were being turned over.[14] Trump's lawyers also claimed that all the documents were stored in a single basement storage room on the property.[13] On June 8, Bratt emailed Trump's lawyers, telling them to put a stronger lock on the basement and to keep all documents "preserved in that room in their current condition until further notice".[15] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_investigation_into_Donald_Trump's_handling_of_government_documents#Investigation 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lying Posted January 17, 2023 #106 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Can anyone explain why bidens lawyers were sent to search for more documents, instead of say, the FBI? Do his lawyers even have the security clearances required to handle these documents? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 17, 2023 #107 Share Posted January 17, 2023 23 minutes ago, Knob Oddy said: Can anyone explain why bidens lawyers were sent to search for more documents, instead of say, the FBI? Do his lawyers even have the security clearances required to handle these documents? My guess would be no. Because, "they didn't expect to find any".... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted January 17, 2023 #108 Share Posted January 17, 2023 12 minutes ago, DieChecker said: My guess would be no. Because, "they didn't expect to find any".... Which time? You'd think the fbi would've started on #2. Swap places and it's Rudy Giuliani doing that. Still ok? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted January 17, 2023 Author #109 Share Posted January 17, 2023 31 minutes ago, Knob Oddy said: Can anyone explain why bidens lawyers were sent to search for more documents, instead of say, the FBI? Do his lawyers even have the security clearances required to handle these documents? The first documents were discovered accidentally, once discovered they began searching everywhere there were unpacked boxes, including his homes. You see, unlike Trump he didn't try to conceal the documents, or lye about having them to Federal inspectors, no his actions were clean with respect to the discovery and that will go a long way during the investigation and deciding what is any charges are appropriate for his actions. Now, Trump on the other hand is guilty of five separate charges, when not if they indict him, he has no leg to stand on. Plus, the situation with Biden doesn't even compare to the number of documents Trump had or the criminal behavior he elicited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted January 17, 2023 Author #110 Share Posted January 17, 2023 18 minutes ago, DieChecker said: My guess would be no. Because, "they didn't expect to find any".... Oh, and by the way, now that more information has come out, I must admit you were basically right. Yet there still is no real comparison between the situation with Trump. Trump took classified documents, concealed them (Moved and hide them from Federal Inspectors), and lied about not having any classified material still under his control. None of that has been proven in the situation with Biden, YET and until it is, there is nothing to say in my opinion. Except, that the Radical Rightwing is using this for wasted airtime, and they are also very ignorant and Stupid because while they are bringing attention to Biden, the media is comparing the situation to Trump and most everyone agrees there is no comparison except some Right winged sources that no one pays any attention to except other radicals!!!!!!!! So, may they continue to shine their light because they are aluminating Trump in a much worst light than Biden!!!!!!! Peace! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el midgetron Posted January 17, 2023 #111 Share Posted January 17, 2023 The National Archives knew what Trump had. Further, he had these documents secured in a single location, knew what he had, knew where they were, and that location had Secret Service protection. On the flipside… Biden’s documents were scattered. Biden was surprised to learn of these discoveries, which means he had no idea what he had. So you can bet the National Archives had no idea what he had. Looks like wherever Joe goes, he leaves behind America’s secrets. You get the sense Biden was throwing classified documents around like confetti. Whoo-hoo! Worse still, while renting his father’s Delaware house for an apparent $49,000 a month (Biden’s taxes disagree – uh, oh), Hunter “Hard Partier” Biden had access to Biden’s garage and library, and therefore access to America’s secrets. And let’s not pretend Hunter wasn’t looking for every way possible to make money off his father’s name and status. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/01/16/nolte-unlike-trumps-bidens-classified-document-scandal-is-real/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted January 17, 2023 #112 Share Posted January 17, 2023 16 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said: Trump took classified documents, concealed them (Moved and hide them from Federal Inspectors So, did they alert federal inspectors for Biden after the first time? If so, did they authorize his lawyers to continue looking for more across the country? Hypothetically on a low level and say I'm a government employee who was found in a similar situation would the FBI let my lawyer who wears an old suit and has an office in a trailer continue hunting down the rest of them after the first time they were found? If not, I see a two tier justice system. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted January 17, 2023 Author #113 Share Posted January 17, 2023 4 hours ago, cormac mac airt said: Well, Biden can pay the penalty just the same as Trump can. cormac Yes, he certainly can and should be for the crime he committed, but Trumps crime and Bidens crime are certainly different. Trumps charges will include, intentionally removing documents from the White House SCIF. Knowingly possessing Classified materials, Concealing said classified materials from Federal investigators, not storing classified documents in accordance with Executive Order 13526- Classified National Security Information dated October 2011: Executive Order 13526- Classified National Security Information | whitehouse.gov (archives.gov). You, see every President is supposed to read and update this document, but Trump was too busy creating National Mayhem to be concerned about something like National Security, except when he ran out toilet paper and tore up classified documents to wipe his ass, and left half pages laying on the bathroom stalls floor.  So, he will suffer the consequences of his actions and so will Biden, I hope. But those crimes are vastly different in the number of documents Trump had verse what Biden had, and the way trump handled things compared to how Biden has. Peace Mac! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor Witness Posted January 17, 2023 #114 Share Posted January 17, 2023 The big problem that all the right wing crybabies here have, is that there’s a big difference in the intent, between President Trump and Biden. If you don’t grasp the concept, you haven’t a clue how the criminal code works. I also find it ironic that these same people have been saying President Biden is senile and has dementia. There goes your intent, if you actually believe that. So good luck living on fantasy island. Trump will probably be jailed, but more likely for something else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted January 17, 2023 #115 Share Posted January 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said: Yes, he certainly can and should be for the crime he committed, but Trumps crime and Bidens crime are certainly different. Trumps charges will include, intentionally removing documents from the White House SCIF. Knowingly possessing Classified materials, Concealing said classified materials from Federal investigators, not storing classified documents in accordance with Executive Order 13526- Classified National Security Information dated October 2011: Executive Order 13526- Classified National Security Information | whitehouse.gov (archives.gov). You, see every President is supposed to read and update this document, but Trump was too busy creating National Mayhem to be concerned about something like National Security, except when he ran out toilet paper and tore up classified documents to wipe his ass, and left half pages laying on the bathroom stalls floor.  So, he will suffer the consequences of his actions and so will Biden, I hope. But those crimes are vastly different in the number of documents Trump had verse what Biden had, and the way trump handled things compared to how Biden has. Peace Mac! Thanks Reaper but I don’t need an education on classified documents and handling. My AFSC in the Air Force was 29150/49151 Telecommunications Operations/Information Systems Specialist. I had CommCenter and COMSEC Duties. BOTH should receive commensurate punishment for their separate crimes. I have a feeling though that the Dems are going to try to wiggle their way out of taking responsibility for their actions. cormac 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted January 17, 2023 Author #116 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Just now, cormac mac airt said: Thanks Reaper but I don’t need an education on classified documents and handling. My AFSC in the Air Force was 29150/49151 Telecommunications Operations/Information Systems Specialist. I had CommCenter and COMSEC Duties. BOTH should receive commensurate punishment for their separate crimes. I have a feeling though that the Dems are going to try to wiggle their way out of taking responsibility for their actions. cormac I am fully aware of that, and I wasn’t preaching only making a point to someone who understands, so some of less knowledgeable members posting here have a better understanding, sorry if you though I was directing those comments to you. neither does @Trelane like us he has held security clearances since he joined the military. As far me I joined the Military in 1978 and my TS-SBI clearance was approved from 1980 until they changed the TS designation to TS-SCI and mine was upgraded to that. Here is a hilarious story, when my Special Background Investigation was being done, I was called into the Office of Security, which turned into the Diplomatic Security Service (DSS) later. Well, there were two investigators in an interview room, and they want information on my father and mother. The documents were sealed eyes only documents that were signed By President Truman into authorization for blanket Group of Germans who immigrated under a secret program after 1945 and authorization to access those documents had to come from the White House. They had talked with my father, but the individual was a smart ass so he was shown the door. ( my dad took crap from No one ever) Well, they treated me alright so I explained the situation to them and at first they didn’t believe me, but after their station Chief became involved the issue was dropped and approximately 2 months later my clearance was authorized. I was also a member of the the Personnel Reliability Program (PRP), because of my security clearance, and also because of my military occupational specialty Technical Escort which was at the top echelon of the US Army Corps. I held that clearance for 23 years in the US Army, and then it was reactivated for 10.75 years because I worked as a contractor during Middle Eastern Operations. So, you must have held a similar clearance to mine, because with mine I was AUTHORIZED to handle any level of classified document if it were required for a mission I was assigned, thus I often was required to handle compartmentalized documents. In fact once in the Middle East before the SCIF was able to grant me access it required Presidential authorization, because it was eyes only information. However, within 24 hours I was granted access. That was a weird situation that only occurred that one time. However, I certainly learned that Top Secret as security classification has many other layers like am Onion, with in that classification and just a TS clearance without a special background investigation, Special Compartmentalized investigation your access if limited. That’s why my TS-SBI and then TS-SCI Clearances were critical for me to complete my missions. Peace Mac sorry fir the confusion! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted January 17, 2023 Author #117 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, F3SS said: So, did they alert federal inspectors for Biden after the first time? If so, did they authorize his lawyers to continue looking for more across the country? I am not aware of that information, but at point I would assume they did. Since he us the President of the United States he could authorize anyone he choose to, based upon my knowledge. Apparently, Federal Investigators were called in, I mean the President made that call and he brought the heat down upon himself. When he could have handled the situation completely different, but in the spirit of transparency he elected to bring the situation to their attention. Let’s, face it the documents were anywhere from 6 to 15 years old so depending upon why they were classified they most likely posed not threat to National security any longer. 1 hour ago, F3SS said: Hypothetically on a low level and say I'm a government employee who was found in a similar situation would the FBI let my lawyer who wears an old suit and has an office in a trailer continue hunting down the rest of them after the first time they were found? If not, I see a two tier justice system. Please, consider the situation your a low level employee how and why do you think that individual would be treated in the same manner the POTUS would be treated in that situation, you are kidding? If, you think any civilian employee of the Federal Government will be Treated like Any POTUS or it’s a two tier justice system, all I can say is ok. But, you better than that and you’re doing yourself a disservice by suggesting such a thing. We have always gotten along even on topics we didn’t agree with each other on, which I have always respected you for. So, please reread your remarks and see if your comments are legitimate or if you can see fault with your own thoughts. If, you think the POTUS will ever be treated in a situation like this like you or me your confused and I am certain you know It. Peace F3SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted January 17, 2023 #118 Share Posted January 17, 2023 45 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said: I am fully aware of that, and I wasn’t preaching only making a point to someone who understands, so some of less knowledgeable members posting here have a better understanding, sorry if you though I was directing those comments to you. neither does @Trelane like us he has held security clearances since he joined the military. As far me I joined the Military in 1978 and my TS-SBI clearance was approved from 1980 until they changed the TS designation to TS-SCI and mine was upgraded to that. Here is a hilarious story, when my Special Background Investigation was being done, I was called into the Office of Security, which turned into the Diplomatic Security Service (DSS) later. Well, there were two investigators in an interview room, and they want information on my father and mother. The documents were sealed eyes only documents that were signed By President Truman into authorization for blanket Group of Germans who immigrated under a secret program after 1945 and authorization to access those documents had to come from the White House. They had talked with my father, but the individual was a smart ass so he was shown the door. ( my dad took crap from No one ever) Well, they treated me alright so I explained the situation to them and at first they didn’t believe me, but after their station Chief became involved the issue was dropped and approximately 2 months later my clearance was authorized. I was also a member of the the Personnel Reliability Program (PRP), because of my security clearance, and also because of my military occupational specialty Technical Escort which was at the top echelon of the US Army Corps. I held that clearance for 23 years in the US Army, and then it was reactivated for 10.75 years because I worked as a contractor during Middle Eastern Operations. So, you must have held a similar clearance to mine, because with mine I was AUTHORIZED to handle any level of classified document if it were required for a mission I was assigned, thus I often was required to handle compartmentalized documents. In fact once in the Middle East before the SCIF was able to grant me access it required Presidential authorization, because it was eyes only information. However, within 24 hours I was granted access. That was a weird situation that only occurred that one time. However, I certainly learned that Top Secret as security classification has many other layers like am Onion, with in that classification and just a TS clearance without a special background investigation, Special Compartmentalized investigation your access if limited. That’s why my TS-SBI and then TS-SCI Clearances were critical for me to complete my missions. Peace Mac sorry fir the confusion! No problem Reaper. While I didn’t stay in as long as you I entered service not long after you, January 1982. Because my Dad was an Honorably Discharged Vietnam Vet and I had no record of any kind my clearance came through in record time and at that time I was given a TS-SCI clearance immediately. Spent most of my time in the Vault. Felt like a caveman. cormac 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted January 17, 2023 Author #119 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said: No problem Reaper. While I didn’t stay in as long as you I entered service not long after you, January 1982. Because my Dad was an Honorably Discharged Vietnam Vet and I had no record of any kind my clearance came through in record time and at that time I was given a TS-SCI clearance immediately. Spent most of my time in the Vault. Felt like a caveman. cormac Well anyone who stood and followed the call of duty, like your father did in my opinion is HERO because the Vietnam War was a Unique conflict that l am Glad I was young to be drafted for. I mean the US Embassy in Saigon fell on April 30, 1975, and I didn’t turn 18 until September 25, 1977, and I joined the US Army and left for basic training at Ft. Jackson, South Carolina, in March of 1978. I felt very obligated to join the Military because I was the first born American Citizen in my families history. My, father was so proud to have been given the right and opportunity to become an American. From the time I could speak (1 year old) I was taught to be proud of my family first. But, also to be proud of our Great country, our government, and the people so within my first five years of life I was both an English and German speaking American flag waving Patriot. In addition I was born a Republican, my dad and mother were in the United States for 13 years when I was born, my father was a very hardcore conservative Republican so again by my fifth year of life I was also a patriotic Republican. While, I always remained very Patriotic, I have never been a Conservative Republican, my choice was to be a Moderate Republican which I still am today. The only difference was my father served in the German Scientific Weapons Development Program (Wunderwaffen programm). My Dad was a chief designer of Jet Engines, my father was instrumental in Jet Engines design and Operations in Germany from 1936 until March 1945, when he left and made it back to Flensburg, Germany where he grew up and our family lived fir approximately 800 years. Most, people have no clue, but Adoft Hitler according to my father was an American Spy. My father always referred to Hitler in our conversations as an idiot, and he certainly had every reason to say that. Because, we would all literally be speaking German now if not for Hitlers incompetence. Because while few realize it Germany could have had an Operational Jet Air Force by Early-1941 and Hitler could not comprehend the implications that made. So, in late 1939 Hitler decided not to press Jet Aircraft into production. If he had done so, Operation Barbarossa the invasion of Russia would have suceeded no later Mid-1942. If that had occurred there would have been no stopping them with all the resources Russia would have offered. Is your father still with us ? My father died in 1993, and my mother passed in 2006. We should start a military history thread on WWII, I think it would generate an interesting conversation. I mean there are so many aspects of the war that could be discussed. If a thread was started, would you be interested in participating in it? I think the addition of your knowledge would make the thread great. Peace Mac! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted January 17, 2023 #120 Share Posted January 17, 2023 On 1/14/2023 at 10:38 PM, F3SS said: I wonder if there is any personal significance to these files or are they just bits of homework the dolt left laying around? Considering how the media covers for him and his thug-son, we'll never get the answer to that question. The one thing we will get to see is just how brazen their media can be if they indict Trump while letting Biden slide. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted January 17, 2023 #121 Share Posted January 17, 2023 On 1/13/2023 at 11:18 AM, preacherman76 said: Unfortunately when it comes to Trump they just say things hoping you will believe them And it always works with those who have swallowed the lies of the media. These people are so sold on him being Satan's nephew that there is literally NOTHING that will ever convince them otherwise. Sad and pathetic, actually. It's going to be fun watching them jump through the media hoops to explain why Biden did nothing "seriously" wrong even though he NEVER had the excuse of being legally capable of declassifying documents. I mean, look at the charge to demand that Trump, as POTUS, was dependent on some clerk's "Declassified" paperwork being the deciding factor in a POTUS' ability to classify or declassify information. They are simply parroting the media they listen to. I'd be willing to bet that even if SCOTUS says they're wrong, according to the Constitution, they'd STILL refuse to acknowledge it. It really is a mental disorder at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted January 17, 2023 #122 Share Posted January 17, 2023 38 minutes ago, and-then said: And it always works with those who have swallowed the lies of the media. These people are so sold on him being Satan's nephew that there is literally NOTHING that will ever convince them otherwise. Sad and pathetic, actually. It's going to be fun watching them jump through the media hoops to explain why Biden did nothing "seriously" wrong even though he NEVER had the excuse of being legally capable of declassifying documents. I mean, look at the charge to demand that Trump, as POTUS, was dependent on some clerk's "Declassified" paperwork being the deciding factor in a POTUS' ability to classify or declassify information. They are simply parroting the media they listen to. I'd be willing to bet that even if SCOTUS says they're wrong, according to the Constitution, they'd STILL refuse to acknowledge it. It really is a mental disorder at this point. How is that FOIA request for the information that Trump declassified progressing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 17, 2023 #123 Share Posted January 17, 2023 5 hours ago, F3SS said: Which time? You'd think the fbi would've started on #2. Swap places and it's Rudy Giuliani doing that. Still ok? My understanding was "lawyers" did all the searching, and turned stuff over to the Archive on the 1st instance, and to the FBI on later instances. AFAIK, no FBI agent looked around at all, initially at each location. I'm sure a few showed up and looked around plenty after the initial report at each location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 17, 2023 #124 Share Posted January 17, 2023 4 hours ago, cormac mac airt said: Thanks Reaper but I don’t need an education on classified documents and handling. My AFSC in the Air Force was 29150/49151 Telecommunications Operations/Information Systems Specialist. I had CommCenter and COMSEC Duties. BOTH should receive commensurate punishment for their separate crimes. I have a feeling though that the Dems are going to try to wiggle their way out of taking responsibility for their actions. cormac My guess is, they'll argue, "He didn't mean to". Thus showing a lack of intent, and preventing any real meaty charges being leveled. And so the AG, as with Clinton, will just call it done with a hand slap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 17, 2023 #125 Share Posted January 17, 2023 5 hours ago, el midgetron said: The National Archives knew what Trump had. Further, he had these documents secured in a single location, knew what he had, knew where they were, and that location had Secret Service protection. On the flipside… Biden’s documents were scattered. Biden was surprised to learn of these discoveries, which means he had no idea what he had. So you can bet the National Archives had no idea what he had. Looks like wherever Joe goes, he leaves behind America’s secrets. You get the sense Biden was throwing classified documents around like confetti. Whoo-hoo! Worse still, while renting his father’s Delaware house for an apparent $49,000 a month (Biden’s taxes disagree – uh, oh), Hunter “Hard Partier” Biden had access to Biden’s garage and library, and therefore access to America’s secrets. And let’s not pretend Hunter wasn’t looking for every way possible to make money off his father’s name and status. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/01/16/nolte-unlike-trumps-bidens-classified-document-scandal-is-real/ Likely there were more documents at one point, but Hunter used some to roll joints, and others to make coicaine sniff tubes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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