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Lotteries


Myles

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https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/lottery-predatory-poor-expert-delivers-scathing-indictment-game-calls-lie-con

While I agree with most of what he says, wouldn't it be considered discriminating if you enact laws that are geared to stop only poor people?

I only play in an office group I have been in for years.  I don't even work there anymore but still contribute a couple bucks a week.  I think it is more out of fear that they would win if I leave the group.  :D

I never buy scratch off tickets.  

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Did you see if this story was on any other media besides Fox news?

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6 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Did you see if this story was on any other media besides Fox news?

It's not really a story.   It's just that guys opinion.  

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27 minutes ago, Myles said:

It's not really a story.   It's just that guys opinion.  

OK.  I didn't read it because I saw "FoxNews" in the link.   I react the same way to "CNN News"

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9 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

OK.  I didn't read it because I saw "FoxNews" in the link.   I react the same way to "CNN News"

I use Fox News and CNN.   It's hard to get the truth sometimes.  

Here is some of what he said.

 

Les Bernal is national director of Stop Predatory Gambling, an organization headquartered in Washington, D.C.

"Through its advertising and marketing of lotteries, state governments have turned a nation of small earners — who could be small savers — into a nation of habitual gamblers," Bernal told Fox News Digital by email.

Bernal also said that over the next eight years, the American people are "going to lose more than $1 trillion of personal wealth to commercialized gambling, at least half of which is being extracted by state lotteries."

He added, "If you could just cut that figure by 50%, there’s no other policy reform that comes in 1,000 miles of that to make a bigger difference in the lives of everyday Americans."

Bernal offered specific examples of how lotteries prey on lower-income citizens.

He pointed out that there is a concentration of sales outlets in poorer communities, as well as messages on scratch tickets that "deceitfully declare" that playing is "your fastest way to a million dollars!" 

One Massachusetts 50-year-old who regularly gives scratch tickets as gifts to people he doesn't know well, such as gifts for grab-bags, said that practice sometimes "leaves a twinge of guilt, to be honest."

He also said, "How do I know that the recipient isn't teetering on the edge of a gambling addiction? It's worth thinking about."

Bernal continued, "So if you’re someone who just lost their job, or you’re trying to pay your rent at the end of the month, or you need money to pay a large medical bill, state lotteries attempt to position themselves as the answer — exploiting the financial desperation of our fellow citizens."

"A citizen has to work two days before they can lose it all in an instant to a $100 scratch ticket promoted by Texas state government," Bernal noted.

 

"It’s what we advertise to the American people more than anything else — and it’s a con. It’s a lie," Bernal also said. 

"What government incentivizes to the American people shapes our national character."

 

Bernal said that state lotteries are "driven by greed," and their marketing and advertising strategies toward lower-income groups are "a reflection of this."

Advertising is tailored by income category, he noted.

"Lotteries run aggressive marketing campaigns to lure low-income people to buy tickets," he said.

But with middle- and upper-income groups," he continued, "lotteries target messages about the amount of money the lottery is directing to education, college scholarships or protecting the environment, depending on the state."

What separates state lotteries from every other business, including vices like alcohol and tobacco, is that it’s a "big con game," said Bernal.

"If you pay for a pizza, a ticket to a sporting event or a glass of wine, that’s what you receive in return," he said.

 

"With lotteries, what you receive is a financial exchange offering the lure that you might win money," he continued.

This financial exchange is "mathematically stacked against you," Bernal continued, so "you will lose your money in the end — especially if you keep gambling."

Needed reforms in marketing, advertising

Bernal believes there are three long-overdue reforms to address the major problem of predatory gambling. 

1. Protect the health and well-being of kids and families by restricting gambling advertising, marketing and sponsorships.

This includes restricting all gambling advertising and marketing on the internet, streaming platforms, TV, radio and point-of-sale locations such as convenience stores and gas stations, he said. 

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It seems he has concern for low income families and is making some suggestions that I agree with, advertising and marketing of anything unhelpful, including pharmacueticals that require a prescription should be taken off of television/streaming platforms.   The internet is more problematic because lower income people can't pay a monthly fee to have ad free websites, and I don't see the lottery advertising on the websites I go to.   But the point of Sale locations need signage to indicate they do sell lottery tickets.   In the state I live in those lottery earnings help pay for college for low income students.

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39 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

It seems he has concern for low income families and is making some suggestions that I agree with, advertising and marketing of anything unhelpful, including pharmacueticals that require a prescription should be taken off of television/streaming platforms.   The internet is more problematic because lower income people can't pay a monthly fee to have ad free websites, and I don't see the lottery advertising on the websites I go to.   But the point of Sale locations need signage to indicate they do sell lottery tickets.   In the state I live in those lottery earnings help pay for college for low income students.

I do too.  However, I feel it may be considered discriminatory to only target low income areas.  Almost like saying low income people are dumb and cannot choose for themselves.  While that may be true, it's a tough road you are on if you are going to imply it.  

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1 hour ago, Myles said:

Bernal offered specific examples of how lotteries prey on lower-income citizens.

 

To say it preys on poor people is acting like they have no choice or are too stupid to decide.  Even poor people are adults.  I bet he has no problem sending poor people to prison for breaking laws even though the circumstances of being poor make it more likely they will break laws.

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13 minutes ago, Myles said:

I do too.  However, I feel it may be considered discriminatory to only target low income areas.  Almost like saying low income people are dumb and cannot choose for themselves.  While that may be true, it's a tough road you are on if you are going to imply it.  

How many rich people do you know that buy lottery tickets?  Of course it is targeting the lower income areas, because everyone needs a little hope.   My aunt used to spend $18 to $25 a week on lottery tickets and she started doing that when she retired and could not live on her social security without help.  My mother helped with her mortgage and the rest of us brought her groceries.  None of us begrudged her small amount spent on lottery tickets.   Maybe we all hoped she would win, but she never did win more tha 50.00 and that was only a few times in 20+ years.

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3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

To say it preys on poor people is acting like they have no choice or are too stupid to decide.  Even poor people are adults.  I bet he has no problem sending poor people to prison for breaking laws even though the circumstances of being poor make it more likely they will break laws.

You make a good point.   A lot of industries actually do prey on poor people ( higher interest rates because they don't have enough money to have good credit - you don't use a credit card if you can't pay the bill.   But lottery  tickets are a choice and being poor does not mean being stupid.

Edited by Desertrat56
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6 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

How many rich people do you know that buy lottery tickets?  Of course it is targeting the lower income areas, because everyone needs a little hope.   My aunt used to spend $18 to $25 a week on lottery tickets and she started doing that when she retired and could not live on her social security without help.  My mother helped with her mortgage and the rest of us brought her groceries.  None of us begrudged her small amount spent on lottery tickets.   Maybe we all hoped she would win, but she never did win more tha 50.00 and that was only a few times in 20+ years.

Rich, I don't know any millionaires outside of a brother.   I know lots of middle class people who buy lottery tickets.  My view of "middle class" would be a combined household income of around $75,000 and up.  

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3 minutes ago, Myles said:

Rich, I don't know any millionaires outside of a brother.   I know lots of middle class people who buy lottery tickets.  My view of "middle class" would be a combined household income of around $75,000 and up.  

I guess in other cities the middle class have their own neighborhoods and I bet the local quicky mart and grocery stores in those neighborhoods also sell lottery tickets.   So, the marketing is aimed at the people who would buy the lottery tickets.   In Albuquerque we don't have many neighborhoods that are segregated from poor and middle class.  

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5 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I guess in other cities the middle class have their own neighborhoods and I bet the local quicky mart and grocery stores in those neighborhoods also sell lottery tickets.   So, the marketing is aimed at the people who would buy the lottery tickets.   In Albuquerque we don't have many neighborhoods that are segregated from poor and middle class.  

In the city I live a mile outside of, there are dirt poor and wealthy people and everything in between.      Each gas station, liquor store and grocery store sells lottery tickets.  

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For 999,999,999 out of 1,000,000,000 people who play lottery are just paying the 'I'm bad at math tax'.

Edited by sirfiroth
Correcting the numbers
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2 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Lotteries are a tax on people who are bad at maths. 

That would support the theory that poor people are dumb,

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7 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Cancel Ambrose Bierce

I'm familiar with him but not enough to understand your meaning.

My favorite part of his writings was a not he left before going to and disappearing in Mexico. 

He wrote in one of his final letters: "Good-bye. If you hear of my being stood up against a Mexican stone wall and shot to rags, please know that I think it is a pretty good way to depart this life. It beats old age, disease, or falling down the cellar stairs. 

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Let people do as they choose.  Maybe it is not because they are dumb,  they really never expect to win. It is just a dream.  For a couple of bucks you can buy a few hours of a dream in which you are not worried about how to pay your bills or what will happen to your kids if you get sick.  Its cheaper and healthier than alcohol or drugs.  It preys on poor people because this dream is available  when others seem unreachable. 

No preaching here.  You can't buy a starter house today by working extra hours or  passing on Starbucks and fast food.  I started at 2.25  an hour, worked through college and retired from a 100k job.  My first house cost $11k.  The United States has changed a lot in the last 50 years.  It is not the fault of poor people, money floats to the top.   The American dream is shrinking into an upper middle class phenomenon.  

Is it limited to poor uneducated people?  Ask a 25 year old person with a job that pays $50k a year.  How many of them think they can affords to start a family or buy a house?  Probably not a majority.

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17 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Let people do as they choose.  Maybe it is not because they are dumb,  they really never expect to win. It is just a dream.  For a couple of bucks you can buy a few hours of a dream in which you are not worried about how to pay your bills or what will happen to your kids if you get sick.  Its cheaper and healthier than alcohol or drugs.  It preys on poor people because this dream is available  when others seem unreachable. 

No preaching here.  You can't buy a starter house today by working extra hours or  passing on Starbucks and fast food.  I started at 2.25  an hour, worked through college and retired from a 100k job.  My first house cost $11k.  The United States has changed a lot in the last 50 years.  It is not the fault of poor people, money floats to the top.   The American dream is shrinking into an upper middle class phenomenon.  

Is it limited to poor uneducated people?  Ask a 25 year old person with a job that pays $50k a year.  How many of them think they can affords to start a family or buy a house?  Probably not a majority.

My daughter is 40, has a college degree and only reached 50K a year 2 years ago.   What 25 year old is earning that?   I get your point though, 50k a year is not enough to be able to buy a house or live comfortably with children.

P.S.  I know a degree in computer science used to get you a job starting at 50+ K a year if you were willing to work for a large corporation.   In some areas that is not the case.  I had to move to another state with 20 years experience and a degree to get that, now I earn close to what you retired from.  It is so weird spending the years my kids were growing up being on the low end of middle class or high end of poverty (it reallly was poverty sometimes) and now I earn just under 6 figures.   The house I am in now cost 3 times more than the first house I bought in the 80's (with the VA interest and help from my parents), but it is appraised at more than twice what I got the mortgage for 5 years ago.   Inflation has sped up over the last 10 years for everything, but wages have not. 

Edited by Desertrat56
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41 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

My daughter is 40, has a college degree and only reached 50K a year 2 years ago.   What 25 year old is earning that?   I get your point though, 50k a year is not enough to be able to buy a house or live comfortably with children.

P.S.  I know a degree in computer science used to get you a job starting at 50+ K a year if you were willing to work for a large corporation.   In some areas that is not the case.  I had to move to another state with 20 years experience and a degree to get that, now I earn close to what you retired from.  It is so weird spending the years my kids were growing up being on the low end of middle class or high end of poverty (it reallly was poverty sometimes) and now I earn just under 6 figures.   The house I am in now cost 3 times more than the first house I bought in the 80's (with the VA interest and help from my parents), but it is appraised at more than twice what I got the mortgage for 5 years ago.   Inflation has sped up over the last 10 years for everything, but wages have not. 

I know educated professionals who struggle to pay their rent. We have a serious problem here. 

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