+Hammerclaw Posted January 25, 2023 #1 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) Overwhelmed by abortive, often distasteful Theist threads lately, let's flip the coin and check out the other end of the spectrum and talk about what is usually called Atheism. What is Atheism? What can the unique personal perspectives of individual Atheists tell us to shed light on this belief/disbelief and/or world view? Exploring the topic, I've found it much more convoluted and complicated than Theists might suspect, disserving consideration and respect. Edited January 25, 2023 by Hammerclaw 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Occupational Hubris Posted January 25, 2023 Popular Post #2 Share Posted January 25, 2023 I simply have no spiritual or religious beliefs. I have no place in my life for it. 10 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jmccr8 Posted January 25, 2023 Popular Post #3 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Hi Hammer Yes there are different types of atheists some more outspoken than others for a variety of reasons. I don’t personally try to sell atheism but do see some who do, I see it as the same personal choice that Christians or any other believers might have. I generally never encounter people that have a problem with my lack of belief nor do they push their belief on me so treat them in like as it seems unimportant to either of us. Here is the only place I engage in discussion about belief systems simply because some are quite abstract from the norm and am more interested in how or why they came to that point. It works both ways as I do see some abstract forms of atheist ideologies that would seem to stem from the same personality traits. I do not care if someone is a believer or not just so long as they are a good person that can respect individual choice. 9 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resume Posted January 25, 2023 #4 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Agnostic Atheist: I do not believe in any of the gods presented to me so far; I do not feel the evidence provided is sufficient. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted January 25, 2023 #5 Share Posted January 25, 2023 99.999% Athiest, I only believe in one God out of the h7ndreds humans have. 2 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post +joc Posted January 25, 2023 Popular Post #6 Share Posted January 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Occupational Hubris said: I simply have no spiritual or religious beliefs. I have no place in my life for it. What he said. 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post zep73 Posted January 25, 2023 Popular Post #7 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) Gods or god makes no sense. (I deliberately spell the name with a small g, because the big G is a sign of respect.) From what I've heard from theists, they most often place their whole belief system on a feeling. They "feel" god is real. So it's basically a subjective need they have. Sense has nothing to do with it. Neither does evidence or logic. Thus it makes no sense to debate it with them. I'll just let them have their belief in peace. That peace is only broken when they try to bring science or evidence into it. That is desperate and stupid. Edited January 25, 2023 by zep73 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Grim Reaper 6 Posted January 25, 2023 Popular Post #8 Share Posted January 25, 2023 4 hours ago, Hammerclaw said: Overwhelmed by abortive, often distasteful Theist threads lately, let's flip the coin and check out the other end of the spectrum and talk about what is usually called Atheism. What is Atheism? What can the unique personal perspectives of individual Atheists tell us to shed light on this belief/disbelief and/or world view? Exploring the topic, I've found it much more convoluted and complicated than Theists might suspect, disserving consideration and respect. I was and am a total Atheist, I have no belief in omnipotence deities! 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ell Posted January 25, 2023 #9 Share Posted January 25, 2023 I am the God-cannot-be-found-in-a-book atheist/theist. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post psyche101 Posted January 25, 2023 Popular Post #10 Share Posted January 25, 2023 I'm an Aussie Atheist!!! 3 5 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted January 25, 2023 #11 Share Posted January 25, 2023 I don't know if I am an atheist because I do believe in a spiritual realm, but not a religious one. I don't believe in God as an idol. 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbloodmoon Posted January 25, 2023 #12 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Richard Dawkins came up with a believability list in the god delusion. I find it to be a helpful list personally. I personally fit at 6 with strong leanings towards 7. 1 Strong theist. 100% probability of God. In the words of Carl Jung: "I do not believe, I know." 2 De facto theist. Very high probability but short of 100%. "I don't know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there." 3 Leaning towards theism. Higher than 50% but not very high. "I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God." 4 Completely impartial. Exactly 50%. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable." 5 Leaning towards atheism. Lower than 50% but not very low. "I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical." 6 De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. "I don't know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there." 7 Strong atheist. "I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung knows there is one." 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alchopwn Posted January 25, 2023 Popular Post #13 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) As an atheist with a great interest in anthropology, and as someone who has actively translated so-called holy scripture, I have always taken a great interest in religions and done my professional best to render religious information presented to me for translation in the very most accurate light. That being said, I find the monotheist faiths to be deeply and irrevocably flawed on a moral level, as well as utterly irreconcilable with reality. I am more forgiving of religions that actively promote personal cultivation and mystical experience like Buddhism and Taoism. Having also intensely studied the mystical experiences of Christian saints and their cultivation, their experiences are often simply horrifying. These experiences seem to be either the product of a damaged psyche, or damaging to one's psyche. I have also investigated the Satanists, in a spirit of fairness to get the other side of the story, but found them to be indistinguishable from Libertarians (which I consider a philosophy that is as divorced from reality as Communism, and potentially as dangerous in the hands of ignorant ideologues). In short, I don't trust any ideologies, and all religions are ideologies. I have found many religions to be hotbeds of chicanery and/or mental illness. For me however, my "Road to Damascus" moment was during a road trip in Yemen, when we stopped to refuel and get something cold to drink in a small town, only to witness a young man being stoned to death for allegedly being an atheist, with the local police watching on. This horrible scene, and my powerlessness to intervene without being killed myself led me to conclude that Religion is at its core an irrational and narcissistic reaction against reality and its discontents. These psychic forces unleash human fanaticism, and fanaticism drives the worst behavior of humans. I am an atheist but not a fanatical one. I think everyone who is a moderate in their beliefs is fine. I view human fanatics as the enemies of our species, whatever their ideology. Fanatics cannot be persuaded that they are wrong. Fanatics want an excuse to be violent. Fanatics eschew compassion in favor of their "vision of a better world". Fanatics have no love for the world as it is. Does that make me a Extremist Moderate? Edited January 25, 2023 by Alchopwn 2 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sir Wearer of Hats Posted January 25, 2023 Popular Post #14 Share Posted January 25, 2023 1 hour ago, psyche101 said: I'm an Aussie Atheist!!! For you foreign fellas, that means “drunk”. 1 1 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Piney Posted January 25, 2023 Popular Post #15 Share Posted January 25, 2023 I'm a pantheistic deist who thinks depending on a higher power is detrimental to personal growth and the growth of humanity. Nobody is going to fix anything just praying. 8 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occupational Hubris Posted January 25, 2023 #16 Share Posted January 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: For you foreign fellas, that means “drunk”. TIL that i am an "Aussie Atheiest" 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post eight bits Posted January 25, 2023 Popular Post #17 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) To answer the topic question, I am not any kind of atheist. I realize that atheist is a silly putty term, stretchy and gooey enough that pagan hecklers could call Christians atheists, and then later, Christians could call their hecklers atheists. Life lesson: I can't stop anybody from calling me something, but calling me that doesn't make me one. 4 hours ago, newbloodmoon said: Richard Dawkins came up with a believability list in the god delusion. I find it to be a helpful list personally. I personally fit at 6 with strong leanings towards 7. I am glad you that found that useful. It's called subjective probability and it's been used to represent levels of confidence in uncertain propositions since the early 19th Century. As you might imagine, with about 200 years of development, the model has undergone considerable refinement since Laplace first wrote about this interpretation of the arithmetic of proportions in mixtures. There are a few problems with Dawkins's recitation (which in no way refutes that it was good enough to be of service to you personally). First, when Jung said "I don't believe, I know" he wasn't talking about the same concept(s) of God as Dawkins was dissing, and Jung wasn't talking only about levels of confidence, but also his sources for that confidence. (I might also object that the phrase is in no way original with Jung, nor unique to him. Like the term "atheism," different people have used the same phrase to mean different things - Dawkins, then, was at liberty simply to use the phrase in his own preferred sense and leave Jung out of it). Secondly, the scale sets a very high bar for being neither a kind of theist nor a kind of atheist, a sophisticated way to commit the fallacy of false dichotomy. You escape the dilemma of being labeled only by being in exact equipoise on the Question of God. Shylock escapes persecution only if he can cut away a pound of flesh without shedding a drop of blood. It is highly unlikely that anybody could do that; ditto achieving scrupulous equipoise. What if you are still investigating the QoG, and have no proportional expression of confidence? What if you have an interval proportional expression (very popular these days in scholarly work on confidence management)? Say, 45% to 55%. Oh wait, I know: you're a theistic atheist (or is it atheistic theist)? BTW, is there a useful default position on QoG if you lack a settled level of confidence? I've heard and read many claims that there is a default position (unfortunately, some people think that this default is yes and others say it's no). Personally, I seem to satisfy Dawkins' behavioral description of a "de facto atheist" ("I live my life on the assumption that [God] is not there"), but doing something because of an assumption is the opposite of proportioning your behavior according to a measure of uncertain felt confidence so long as the assumption holds. If I adopt an assumption, then my felt confidence is irrelevant. In any case, Dawkins's cognitive description (of himself, apparently) "I think God is very improbable" doesn't describe me. (That Dawkins's doesn't know is self-evident. The matter is uncertain, which is a fact about the proposition, not a fact about Dawkins especially.) There is no point coining a term which has no use except to describe your confidence if in order to use the term you must first describe your confidence. Better to cut to the chase, describe your confidence, and move on to your next point. Finally, there is the definitional problem. In English, capital-G God refers specifically to one of the Abrahamic Gods, and sometimes more specifically than that to the Christian Triune model. In contrast, QoG seems to be an interesting problem only if the "gods" in question are fairly general. Else you have absurdities like calling a Congregational-heritage New England Unitarian (e.g. President John Adams) an atheist. Although back then, somebody probably did. To sum up, Richard Feynman had a variety of proverbs about uncertain reasoning. One of them cautions that there is a difference between having a name for something versus having an understanding of that thing. Dawkins's opinion on QoG is "atheist" or else the term is meaningless. I understand Dawkins's opinion on QoG because he has explained it at book length. That he likes to call himself a "de facto atheist" adds nothing to my understanding of his views. Edited January 25, 2023 by eight bits 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted January 25, 2023 Author #18 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, eight bits said: That he likes to call himself a "de facto atheist" adds nothing to my understanding of his views. Dawkins always impressed me as more of an anti-theist than merely atheist, that is, someone actively opposed to theism. Edited January 25, 2023 by Hammerclaw 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davros of Skaro Posted January 25, 2023 #19 Share Posted January 25, 2023 I live life without any God belief. I listen/watch to some atheistic content, and conduct anti-theism at times. I just refer to myself as an Atheist. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Horse Posted January 25, 2023 #20 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) Its not so much that one feels that GOD is real, (although I do) its more that ones feelings may lead to THAT. Thoughts are basically from the ego, running through what one might call the dream illusion, and even if ones thoughts are high-minded, with a good character, they are still an illusion. But, good, high-minded thoughts, intentions, and actions, may lead one to the "Kingdom of GOD". And yet its a lack of thoughts that allow one to abide there. Any desire arsing from thought runs the risk of being only an ego desire, but if one can silence the mind, and allow feelings, desires, and inspiration to arise naturally, then you begin to strengthen this relationship with GOD. And only then you will find the absolute evidence for GOD. So instead of relying upon thoughts to move oneself around the world, community, household, ones starts to rely more and more upon ones feelings. At least this is my experience thus far. Edit, this was supposed to be a reply to @zep73 Edited January 25, 2023 by Crazy Horse 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted January 25, 2023 #21 Share Posted January 25, 2023 3 hours ago, Occupational Hubris said: TIL that i am an "Aussie Atheiest" Can you be an Aussie Atheist if you aren't an Australian? Just asking for a friend? 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khol Posted January 25, 2023 #22 Share Posted January 25, 2023 30 minutes ago, Alchopwn said: Can you be an Aussie Atheist if you aren't an Australian? Just asking for a friend?t Absolutely...never been there but have been called one from time to time 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted January 25, 2023 #23 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) What @zep73 said is close to my lack of belief in a deity. And I don't bring it up except when asked or someone decides to "save" me. Though on this forum I have participated in some threads stating my opinion (usually of someone's need to prethelesize or insist everyone who disagrees with them is wrong). Edited January 25, 2023 by Desertrat56 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted January 25, 2023 #24 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Alchopwn said: As an atheist with a great interest in anthropology, and as someone who has actively translated so-called holy scripture, I have always taken a great interest in religions and done my professional best to render religious information presented to me for translation in the very most accurate light. That being said, I find the monotheist faiths to be deeply and irrevocably flawed on a moral level, as well as utterly irreconcilable with reality. I am more forgiving of religions that actively promote personal cultivation and mystical experience like Buddhism and Taoism. Having also intensely studied the mystical experiences of Christian saints and their cultivation, their experiences are often simply horrifying. These experiences seem to be either the product of a damaged psyche, or damaging to one's psyche. I have also investigated the Satanists, in a spirit of fairness to get the other side of the story, but found them to be indistinguishable from Libertarians (which I consider a philosophy that is as divorced from reality as Communism, and potentially as dangerous in the hands of ignorant ideologues). In short, I don't trust any ideologies, and all religions are ideologies. I have found many religions to be hotbeds of chicanery and/or mental illness. For me however, my "Road to Damascus" moment was during a road trip in Yemen, when we stopped to refuel and get something cold to drink in a small town, only to witness a young man being stoned to death for allegedly being an atheist, with the local police watching on. This horrible scene, and my powerlessness to intervene without being killed myself led me to conclude that Religion is at its core an irrational and narcissistic reaction against reality and its discontents. These psychic forces unleash human fanaticism, and fanaticism drives the worst behavior of humans. I am an atheist but not a fanatical one. I think everyone who is a moderate in their beliefs is fine. I view human fanatics as the enemies of our species, whatever their ideology. Fanatics cannot be persuaded that they are wrong. Fanatics want an excuse to be violent. Fanatics eschew compassion in favor of their "vision of a better world". Fanatics have no love for the world as it is. Does that make me a Extremist Moderate? I think that makes you educated, attentive and rational. Edited January 25, 2023 by Desertrat56 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Horse Posted January 25, 2023 #25 Share Posted January 25, 2023 9 hours ago, Ell said: I am the God-cannot-be-found-in-a-book atheist/theist. So where do you think that GOD can be found? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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