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The Caspian Hare

Justice in Iran

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cyberlord

islam treat woman awfully !

it's sad to see people call their selves objective stating such opinions while they know nothing about islam ...

islam was the first ever to give woman all her right , like it was the first ever to equal man with woman , the first ever to equal all people , free slaves ....etc (if i stayed counting all night i won't finish )

most muslim countries deal with french laws , even KSA and Iran don't rule with islam , the true islam .....

the Quran and the Sunna determine the true islam , don't speak about some muslims actions when u talk about islam....

from all my readings and searching i came to a conclusion : woman in non muslim societies isn't free at all .......

first , a general article about woman in islam

http://www.bouti.com/bouti_e_lectures3.htm

then about Hijab ...

u can't say that that islamic laws are wrong unless u have studied islam and other laws , comparing them and knowing the reasons of them ...

Woman and Men share alot of things , mind , political activites , culture ....

then Woman has her own seperated qualities that are different than man , feminim and aspects that make it a shared please between the man and his wife ...

man and woman can get together by one of two 1- based on their minds and scientific and social connection which is neccessary on the development of society 2- based on sexual pleasure ....

what seperats between these 2 cases is hijab ...

if woman showed all her body when particibating in society with man then the natural sexual feelings that God has put in both will take controll , he won't look to the woman the doctor , the scientist , the poet .... he will look to her as woman the pleasure , is there anything worse than that ....

hijab doesn't mean only covering the head , it's about morals ....

Islam was the first ever to give woman all of her rights ....

if u live in UK i can give u address of bookshops that u can have further info about this subject

and who said to u that muslim women don't want to wear Hijab ? in the past few days a muslim girl won a judgemental order against her school in UK to let her wear hijab, and she was very happy about it .....

for further info

http://www.islamonline.net/English/in_dept...jab/index.shtml

http://www.jannah.org/sisters/hijab_protect.html

http://www.jannah.org/sisters/women.html

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Celumnaz

and if she didn't want to, they'd let her, right? no repurcussions?

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cyberlord

ofcource , there is no force in islam , the one who wants to obey God must do it by his own well not by force ,a person enters islam only if he is totally convinced with the rightness of islam , same applies on religious duties within islam ...

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morpheas

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gollum

Spot on Morpheas. thumbsup.gif

Stereotyping an entire religion only fuels hatred and fear of the unknown.

I lived in Saudi for a while and met many Saudi men. I only once ever met a Saudi woman and that was because her husband trusted me enough and found me to be a good and trusting friend, that he felt it was time to introduce his family to me.

Incidently, I worked with this guy 18 hours a day for over 5.5 months.

How many of you would wait that long before you felt you could trust someone.

We in the west are far too forward and upfront.

These people have a completely different outlook in life, a completely different way of judging people.

That certainly does not make them wrong only different.

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cyberlord

morpheas , arabic is a very old and deep language , when u say that in Quran Hijab wasn't mentioned u r neglecting the fact that who said that aren't native arabians , as a result they can't understand it very well ...

Hijab is very clear in Quran...

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morpheas

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cyberlord

as i said before , no country in the world now apply islam , even KSA , they follow the twisted wahhabi way which really is dangerously extreme and really give a bad image about islam , most muslims don't approve wahabbi , again it's not islam ....they treat woman in a way that is very far about islam ....

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Celumnaz
ofcource , there is no force in islam , the one who wants to obey God must do it by his own well not by force ,a person enters islam only if he is totally convinced with the rightness of islam , same applies on religious duties within islam ...

538214[/snapback]

Isn't anyone who rejects the principle of hijab an apostate? And the punishment for an apostate under Islamic law death?

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cyberlord

(Isn't anyone who rejects the principle of hijab an apostate? And the punishment for an apostate under Islamic law death? )

Whaaat! that's not true at all , and i mean at all .....

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morpheas

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cyberlord

morpheas , that isn't true , my evidence is that when the Godly order of wearing Hijab was revealed , women cutted pecies of their clothes and fabrics and wore them , as i said no one understand owr history more than arabs them selfs..

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morpheas

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Celumnaz

might have got it from here http://www.submission.org/dress.html

that's saying it's not originally Islamic and Hijab's mentioned 5 or 7 times.

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cyberlord

morpheas ,read my words right , i said history not religion , u talked about a before islam periode , u said that hijab was a tradition before islam , there were no historicans back then than arabs them selfs , what i was saying that there are people who didn't live the history and make theories from their own ..

and who said that persians or indians can't understand islam , there were non arabs that loved arabic that they became better in it than some arabs them selfs .....

what i was saying that people read the translation of the meanings of Quran and they think they understood all of it , neglecting the fact that Quran it self can't be translated , reading it in Arabic is way different than other languages , also arabic it self has secrets and arts that can't be translated ....

another thing those who study arabic for a while then they think they understood all arabic while they can't pronounce ض ، ح ،ع .......etc

i hope i have clearified enough , iam very upset u understood me wrong

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cyberlord

(might have got it from here http://www.submission.org/dress.html

that's saying it's not originally Islamic and Hijab's mentioned 5 or 7 times. )

the worst lie is that was given between facts .....

this site is corrupted for the fact it calls for not following Sunnah , that's clearly wrong as sunnah is the second source of islamic laws , also it proves my point of people who don't know how to read Quran ...

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morpheas

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cyberlord

by revealing islam , arab became muslims , at that point islamic history starts and it's the same as arabic one , before that that is another thing ... saying that islam adopted hijab is a wrong word , islam came from God , God ordered muslim females to wear hijab ..... when the Godly order of wearing Hijab was revealed , women cutted pecies of their clothes and fabrics and wore them , also the reason of that muslims fought one of jews clans was that they cutted one muslim's hijab .... there are many evidences ...

truely i can't see the use of this arguement , to argue if hijab had benifits or disadvatages is understandable , but as u don't believe in islam what is the use of this arguement ?

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morpheas

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morpheas

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dmgspycat

I have been following Morpheas's and Cyberlords arguments and both have merit. I personaly think christianity to be just as fallible as islam in some aspects. There are councils and leaders on both sides who impose themselves on the populace making them follow strange customs and dogmas. Spirituality should be experienced personally not governed and imposed by a corrupted source that claims to be from god or of a god. God gave us spirituality and reason...man gave us religion and dogma.

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cyberlord

morpheas , as i said women cutted parts of there clothes immediately after the order of hijab was revealed , if they had veils before they wouldn't done that ...

please let muslims their selfs determinte whether hijab is from islam or not , i mean i have tons of resources and evidence but u must be muslim to give it to u...

i know that u argue because u think hijab is bad , have u read what i wrote before ?

sorry because u think iam fanatic because i say hijab is from islam , just because u don't like hijab doesn't mean it's wrong .....

how exactly the way i interpret islam in didn't u like ?

and women didn't born with clothes , do u say they mustn;t wear clothes ?

and who said women r considered dirty in their period? they don't have to pray because of their psychological, emotional and mind condition at that period , Allah is so mercy that he don't want to obligate women to pray or fast during their period ..... how u can be mad of such mercy ?

u have a very wrong idea about islam ....

by the way muslim women feel hijab is the best for them , have u read my first post in this thread ?

dmgspycat , islam is not an hour of worshiping then u go , islam is a full system of life , it has the power of this life and the afterlife .......

that's way people attack islam because they want to seperate religion of life , including attack on Hijab ,peopel who say hijab isn't islam are SECULARIST ,

it's true that there are practises that have nothing to do with islam , but there are the two sources of islamic law (Quran and Sunnah) don't talk about islam unless u have studies the two ..

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morpheas

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cyberlord
wtf, excuse me but non muslims have JUST as much right to an opinion as muslims, especially when a non muslim has a predominately muslim family 

ok so you wont show me this 'evidence' that no one wore veils before islam, because im not muslim, you're pathetic and childish by the sounds of it!!!!!

iam sorry u began to argue with this none sense , please don't act as i said something i didn't , history is for all , all people can analys history , on the other hand to know islam u must study Quran , Sunaa , books and scripts ... to say something against muslim scientists u must be at least at their level of science , are u ?

u say hijab is not from islam , proof it ..

i know people wore scarfs in some civilization , arab woman didn't ....

and IF they did , what does that change , tell me ?

wtf again!!! i dont think it is bad for youyr information, i think God ordering women to wear it is bad to say the least, but women who choose to wear it and are happy to wear it, by all means wear it, its those who dont want to wear it (and i know plenty  ) that i disagree about having to wear it. if it is forced upon you, it does not come from your heart or your morals to wear it, but fear about what will happen if you dont wear it, ad dont tell me otherwise cos ive been to the middle east many times and you cant gloss it over with me.

so u think God ordering it is bad so u want to prove it's not from islam , why ? i mean if u don't belief in islam then it will help u to improve ur beliefs ....

muslim women have to wear hijab , obliged by God like any other religious duty if they didn't it would be a sin , however they aren't forced by human , if she didn't wear it no one forces hear but she will be punished in the judgement day...

so what r u saying

the way you reveal that God ordered women to wear it

just because u don't like it doesn't make it wrong

no, the difference is most people wear clothes for a good reason, they keep you warm and hide your flabby bits, we dont wear them because god ordered us to. 

what's wrong if a one with beliefs wear because God ordered them to .....

wtf, women work while they're pregnant, why cant muslim women pray when they have a period? cant being the key word!!!!!!!

God doesn't want them to do that , what upsets u exactly about it .....

wtf again, thats like saying all muslim men prefer to have a beard than to be clean shaven, its a load of nonense, you over generalise, and do not consider over half the people ive met and spoken to

i haven't generalize , muslims who realy know they religion and are logical thinkers believe that .....

about generalization , how many people u have met exactly ?

i can tell you that during the revolution in Iran back in 1980's, any woman seen in tehran not wearing a roosari would have had acid thrown in their face, and it did happen, my family have witnessed some cases, so you see, these woman, didnt want to wear it, it was brutally forced on them, and now, well now its law, and anyone wishing to even visit the country, regardless of their religion, will have to cover their hair. 

see when i said that u must study islam and u know nothing about u r talking about , have u read any of what i read ?

these are twisted actions , prove to me that islam say that

seperat between islam and muslim actions ....

do you have to put down other religions in order to elivate your own?? surely if a religion instills good values and morals within you, then it doesnt matter if its an hour or a day you spend worshipping!!!!

how exactly i have put down other religions ?

and i don't have to elivate my own

no im a realist dear, women were wearing the veil back in jesus's day so ive been told, explain that one to me??? and btw jesus was b4 Mohammad 

yes , they wear , which proves to me that u know nothing , the prophet christ came with islam like other prophets , christianaty is just a refrence name

by the way , u say iam childish , have u read torah , bible and Quran ? have u read about laws ? have u read history ?

when i say islam is the only system to give woman here rights , i mean it

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morpheas

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Edited by morpheas

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