Carbon Dating Egypt's Oldest Pyramids

[Thanos5150]

On 1/27/2023 at 12:37 AM, Wepwawet said:

Yeah, I managed to spot the extensive references to this paper, difficult not to actually.

Yeah, you'd think that wouldn't you and yet your post gave no indication if only the opposite you understood these papers were one and the same. 

 

 

[Thanos5150]

21 hours ago, WVK said:

Unless there is something that I don’t know,  an Egyptian archaeologist who claims no interest in the newly discovered voids in GP is worthy of criticism.

https://phys.org/news/2017-11-egypt-archaeologist-criticises-pyramid-void.html

Compare to 4yrs later: Egypt breakthrough: Archaeologist claimed 'treasure STILL hiding' in Great Pyramid voids

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AN EGYPT breakthrough is waiting to be made, according to leading archaeologist Dr Zahi Hawass, who claimed: "The treasures of Khufu are still hidden inside the Great Pyramid."....

But Dr Hawass previously told Express.co.uk that he "knew about" the voids beforehand, adding: "If you know how the Great Pyramid was constructed, then you know it has lots of voids.

“We hope to find [that] the body of Khufu could be discovered, that something important could be discovered in these voids."

He told LiveScience in 2013: "I really believe that Khufu's chamber is not discovered yet and all the three chambers were just to deceive the thieves.

"The treasures of Khufu [are] still hidden inside the Great Pyramid, and these three doors could be the key to open this burial chamber.

"There is no pyramid of the 123 pyramids in Egypt that have these type of doors with copper handles.

"Really, I believe they're hiding something."

Hawass is just butt hurt he was not the invited to the Scans Pyramid party but will certainly get his 15 minutes on its back when he can. 

But isn't that weird that Hawass believes the KC is not Khufu's "real" burial chamber" and sarcophagus? Really? So basically Hawass believes the KC is a cenotaph? 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Thanos5150

[Thanos5150]

2 hours ago, WVK said:

Can a reasonable procedure by described If a sadoof is added to the toolbox ?

Shadoof. 

[Thanos5150]

On 1/26/2023 at 7:25 PM, Thanos5150 said:

This is the published paper from the 1995-1996 study which the video refers to extensively beginning at 10:23. Also referenced by Lehner (AERA). 

Obviously no one is "hiding" anything, but it is true Egyptology is resistant to RCD which has nothing to do with keeping things "mysterious" for tourism which is nonsense. Hawass sums up the reason best:

“Carbon-14 dating has a margin of error of 100 years. In order to date Egyptian dynasties, we need to have specific dates; you cannot use carbon dating,” Hawass explained to Al-Masry Al-Youm. “This technique shouldn’t be used at all in making changes to the chronology of the ancient Egypt, not even as a helpful addition.”  

[Kenemet]

19 hours ago, WVK said:

Build quality aside has anyone produced a detailed explanation of how it was constructed?  Unless they winged it, the  builder knew how to build it in advance. 

Of course they knew how to build them.  Imhotep's creation of Djoser's pyramid was the first step (or step pyramid), but his successor Sekhemket and the pharaoh after that (Sanakht) and the one after that (Khaba) and the pharaoh after him (Huni, whose intended tomb MIGHT have been the Medium pyramid) and Sneferu  (Khufu's father) all built pyramids.  Sneferu was positively pyramid happy, building three or four large ones and at least two (and possibly more) small ones.

Tons of pyramid building experience.

[WVK]

2 hours ago, Thanos5150 said:

Shadoof. 

Gesundheit ! 

[Hanslune]

4 hours ago, WVK said:

Orthodoxy has not produced a specific method conclusions either.  I believe this is because their was more in the toolbox. If additional tools can be considered what would the be (according to Occam’s razor). 

...and the various theories  will never be accepted by those involved and it will generate even more endless speculation.

[Hanslune]

5 hours ago, WVK said:

Maybe. Wouldn’t the construction of the Kings chamber high in the pyramid make itthe most technically challenging ?

Not really all they did was place a granite structure in a limestone body as they built it up - excellent work  but still easy for skill the sloping gallery was probably more challenging. It also served no purpose. You only needed one place for the sarcophagus and it could have easily have been placed in the first underground location instead of the wasted time on the Q and K rooms and the gallery,  'ducts'. Just madness.

 

[WVK]

1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

.

Tons of pyramid building experience.

What aspects of that experience applied to the design and execution of the kings chamber.  

[WVK]

25 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

...and the various theories  will never be accepted by those involved and it will generate even more endless speculation.

Considering no one has a satisfactory theory is it unreasonable to suspect  something Is being missed.

[Hanslune]

2 minutes ago, WVK said:

Considering no one has a satisfactory theory is it unreasonable to suspect  something Is being missed.

No, while it is possible something is being missed the problem is that we were left insufficient information which drives people mad. We also don't know how the Roman's built the Pantheon's dome but people aren't going crazy about that - just the great pyramid. There are lots of ancient construction we don't know exactly how it was done, like moving the three 800 tons stones at Baalbek for example but it is the great pyramid that seems to drive many to obsession. Unless we built a great pyramid using (what we think were there techniques we won't know however if we did this type of crazy thing we STILL wouldn't know because we wouldn't know if that is how they did it.

There are lots of things we'll never know for certain.

[Wepwawet]

Just to clarify, due to, well, stuff, it is not me that is saying that science is put into the background to encourage "mystery tourists", but the author of the video that is the subject of this thread.

At 09:40 he says, and I quote:

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There is a lot of money at stake in presenting Egypt's history in a manner that invokes mystery. Keeping physical science out of the messaging keeps believers of a lost ancient civilization coming to Egypt instead of letting those tourist dollars travel elsewhere.

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Wepwawet

[cormac mac airt]

25 minutes ago, WVK said:

Considering no one has a satisfactory theory is it unreasonable to suspect  something Is being missed.

There’s probably many things being missed, none of which involves fringe “theories”. 
 

cormac

[WVK]

12 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

There’s probably many things being missed, none of which involves fringe “theories”. 
 

cormac

If nobody has a clue then how can a theory  be determined fringe? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cladking]

18 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

There’s probably many things being missed, none of which involves fringe “theories”. 
 

cormac

I guess that's pretty handy to know you're right no matter how wrong you are.  If they didn't use ramps we can still be quite sure they used ramps.  If they weren't superstitious we still know they believed in many Gods and lacked all modern scientific knowledge.  If they weren't bumpkins we still know they walked in feces and corpse drippings.  

Wow!  

[cormac mac airt]

5 minutes ago, WVK said:

If nobody has a clue then how can a theory  be determined fringe? 

Listen to Cladking and his pretentiousness for a day or anyone claiming humans couldn’t do it so ETs must have and it’ll become self-explanatory. 
 

3 minutes ago, cladking said:

I guess that's pretty handy to know you're right no matter how wrong you are.  If they didn't use ramps we can still be quite sure they used ramps.  If they weren't superstitious we still know they believed in many Gods and lacked all modern scientific knowledge.  If they weren't bumpkins we still know they walked in feces and corpse drippings.  

Wow!  

This WVK is what we call Exhibit A! 
 

cormac

Edited January 28, 2023 by cormac mac airt

[Wepwawet]

50 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

No, while it is possible something is being missed the problem is that we were left insufficient information which drives people mad. We also don't know how the Roman's built the Pantheon's dome but people aren't going crazy about that

 

I once sat outside the Pantheon for some time, and a few drinks, thinking about this, and I believe I've never been sane since. Then when it came to Brunelleschi, well, there's this:

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Even the original planners of the dome had been unable to advise how their project might be completed: they merely expressed a touching faith that at some point in the future God might provide a solution that architects with a more advanced knowledge would be found

With G1 we seem to be in the same position as 15th Century Florentines, but in the reverse position in that G1 is there, finished, but with our more advanced knowledge we do not know how it was built.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Wepwawet

[Kenemet]

1 hour ago, WVK said:

What aspects of that experience applied to the design and execution of the kings chamber.  

Sneferu's pyramids had something similar.  

[WVK]

2 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Sneferu's pyramids had something similar.  

Are there any mysteries regarding its construction?

[Abramelin]

11 minutes ago, WVK said:

Are there any mysteries regarding its construction?

https://aish.com/egyptian_investors_caught-up_in_massive_pyramid_scheme/

[cladking]

2 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

Listen to Cladking and his pretentiousness for a day or anyone claiming humans couldn’t do it so ETs must have and it’ll become self-explanatory. 
 

The people described by Egyptology almost certainly couldn't have done it with the means suggested by Egyptologists.  This doesn't mean an advanced race mustta come in and hepped them or aliens did it.  It doesn't mean that people of the time didn't band together and construct the only real wonder of the world.  It merely is quite apparent that superstition and ignorance can not create anything at all and if it had then there would be ample evidence of the means that were used.  There would be drawings of bumpkins on ramps and there would be records of the "Gods of Ramps".  There would be tombs of "Overseers of the Stone Draggers" and cemeteries full of MEN who died of heat stroke and being crushed instead of cemeteries full of women and children who mostly died natural deaths.  There would be vast infrastructure to serve the needs of an army of workers.  There would be an entirely different cultural context and a different set of evidence consistent with Egyptological "theory".  

The actual physical evidence and logic do not support the concept that if Egyptology isn't right that they must be entirely right. We call this anomalous evidence "mysteries" because it does not fit with Egyptological beliefs anywhere.  They won't even defer to scientific testing such as the C14 testing because it doesn't fit their theory thereby creating another mystery; how can the pyramids be centuries younger than the material that was used to construct them.  Egyptology corrects the science that says they are wrong as glibly as they correct the spelling and grammar carved in the walls of the tiny piles of rubble that they call "pyramids".  Maybe Egyptologists are wrong and everyone else is right.  This would solve a lot of mysteries right off the bat.  Maybe we should start taking all the evidence at face value and discounting Egyptological opinion formed by linguists studying the pyramids with their backs turned toward them just as Lehner and Hawass suggest.  

I see archaeologists and Egyptologists as being pretentious.  They are the only people in the world who must be right even if they are wrong as you yourself suggested.  We poor mortals and alternative theorists know we can be wrong.   

 

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by cladking

[cladking]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

https://aish.com/egyptian_investors_caught-up_in_massive_pyramid_scheme/

I understand they are even considering charges of prostitution against one of Khufu's own daughters and pimping against the king Himself.  This fraud runs deep and and even involves sealed and empty "sarcophagi" and a total lack of cultural context for the means and methods by which this "Great Pyramid Scheme" was accomplished.  If police ever get to the bottom of it they might find that it has roots so deep that the pyramid is actually the tip of an enormous obelisk of deceit and collusion stretching back far into prehistory.  Perhaps nothing is as it seems.  

[Hanslune]

2 hours ago, WVK said:

If nobody has a clue then how can a theory  be determined fringe?

If it invokes things that the evidence doesn't support like the GP being a nuclear reactor, a water pump, a stargate, an engine to make hydrogen gas, a beacon to aliens, etc,.etcetera.

Now those are 'possible' (most things are) but its not plausible or probable.

[Thanos5150]

8 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Of course they knew how to build them.  Imhotep's creation of Djoser's pyramid was the first step (or step pyramid),

As discussed at length before, there is nothing in Egyptian literature that credits Imhotep as the "creator" of Djoser's pyramid. 

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but his successor Sekhemket

Sekhemkhet. Unfinished. 

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and the pharaoh after that (Sanakht)

Sanakht is not credited with building a pyramid. Some suggest his tomb of the large mastaba K2 at Beit-Khallaf. K1 perhaps Djoser's or a cenotaph.  

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and the one after that (Khaba)

The Layer Pyramid at Zawyet el'Aryan, unfinished, is attributed by some to Khaba but this is purely speculative based on his name being found in nearby Mastaba Z500 which is also thought may have been his actual tomb. Quoting myself from the linked thread above:

Another pyramid speculatively attributed to the next 3rd Dynasty pharaoh Khaba, contained no sarcophagus in which the passage to the burial chamber is so narrow it is thought a sarcophagus could not be passed through regardless. Aspects of the pyramid imply it was never finished and regardless of who built it it is apparent no pharaoh was buried there.  

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and the pharaoh after him (Huni, whose intended tomb MIGHT have been the Medium pyramid)

He "may" have built the tower core, but likely not the outer true pyramid layer which despite the curious absence of his name among numerous graffiti in the associated work camp, the greater context implies this was done by Sneferu. Regardless, it is thought by some, like Lehner, Medium was not an intended tomb for anyone but rather as discussed before cenotaph. 

Quote

and Sneferu  (Khufu's father) all built pyramids.  Sneferu was positively pyramid happy, building three or four large ones and at least two (and possibly more) small ones.

2.5 maybe plus perhaps a few of the southern pyramids. 

 

[Thanos5150]

8 hours ago, WVK said:

What aspects of that experience applied to the design and execution of the kings chamber.  

Unfortunately some of the pictures have crapped out, but the corbel vault is the many smoking guns of continuity.