Colorado baker loses appeal over refusal to make gender transition cake

[+DieChecker]

6 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

They were not refused service. I’m sure he’d of been happy to make another type of cake for them. 
 

I don’t understand why people feel the need to try and make people compromise their beliefs. Walking into a business to provoke a lawsuit should be considered harassment. 

IIRC, regarding the gay marriage cake... He actually offered to make the cake, and frost it, but said that they had to put the writing and figures on top themselves. 

[Abramelin]

53 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

IIRC, regarding the gay marriage cake... He actually offered to make the cake, and frost it, but said that they had to put the writing and figures on top themselves. 

If I had been that baker, I would probably find a way to get even with that couple. Find out what kind of business they are in, and give them a similar treatment.

An eye for an eye as they say...

[+DieChecker]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/colorado-baker-transgender-cake-loses-appeal_n_63d2e4dfe4b0c8e3fc7d0e7b

Quote

Relying on the findings of a Denver judge in a 2021 trial in the dispute, the appeals court said Phillips’ shop initially agreed to make the cake but then refused after Scardina explained that she was going to use it to celebrate her transition from male to female.

So, "they" screwed themselves out of the cake. Or... knew it would tweek the guy's morals, and did it on purpose.

Quote

Scardina, an attorney,

Oh, and apparently "they" are a lawyer. So, no motive there...... 

Quote

In March 2019, lawyers for the state and Phillips agreed to drop both cases under a settlement Scardina was not involved in. She pursued the lawsuit against Phillips and Masterpiece on her own.

https://apnews.com/article/religion-lawsuits-colorado-discrimination-deaccfb6277ac8671726398f0e40b761?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=TopNews&utm_campaign=position_10

Quote

Scardina testified she wanted to “challenge the veracity” of Phillips statements that he would serve LGBT customers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission#cite_note-60

Quote

In April 2020, beyond the appeal deadline, Scardina brought a second lawsuit against Phillips in a different court, seeking more than $100,000 in damages, fines, and attorney's fees.[57] On June 15, 2021, Denver District Judge A. Bruce Jones ruled that Phillips had violated Colorado's anti-discrimination law by refusing to bake a cake for Scardina and fined him $500. 

So... Looking for a Payday. She is the lawyer she wants to be paid. She just wants money.

So he got fined $500 and "they" got NOTHING. I hope this financially ruins "they". She brought this on "they"-self.

Edited January 28, 2023 by DieChecker

[spartan max2]

2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/colorado-baker-transgender-cake-loses-appeal_n_63d2e4dfe4b0c8e3fc7d0e7b

So, "they" screwed themselves out of the cake. Or... knew it would tweek the guy's morals, and did it on purpose.

Oh, and apparently "they" are a lawyer. So, no motive there...... 

https://apnews.com/article/religion-lawsuits-colorado-discrimination-deaccfb6277ac8671726398f0e40b761?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=TopNews&utm_campaign=position_10

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission#cite_note-60

So... Looking for a Payday. She is the lawyer she wants to be paid. She just wants money.

So he got fined $500 and "they" got NOTHING. I hope this financially ruins "they". She brought this on "they"-self.

Don't discriminate against people and you won't have to worry about a lawsuit. 

I'm not sure why you are so angry at them. 

You don't have to agree with someones pronouns to accept their money to make a cake 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

3 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Don't discriminate against people and you won't have to worry about a lawsuit. 

I'm not sure why you are so angry at them. 

You don't have to agree with someones pronouns to accept their money to make a cake 

Conversely, accept that sometimes people will say “no” to you, for whatever reason, accept that and find someone else to give your business to. 

[+DieChecker]

36 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Don't discriminate against people and you won't have to worry about a lawsuit. 

I'm not sure why you are so angry at them. 

You don't have to agree with someones pronouns to accept their money to make a cake 

I'm not made, just pointing out that this person appears to not be actually trying to benefit LGTBQ rights, but is rather looking for a payday.

The dude was going to make them cake, as ordered, till she spoke up, purposefully, to rile him up. But it was never about the cake. It's about them getting money and vengeance. 

I'd question anyone who did the same for other protected classes.

Edited January 28, 2023 by DieChecker

[Golden Duck]

On 1/28/2023 at 2:34 AM, Piney said:

I thought something similar. If your a gay couple, why would you go to a known homophobe except to make trouble? 

Let him kill his own business......

 

Post an entry on Google Reviews or similar.

Word of mouth is facilitated by many electronic initiatives today.

[spartan max2]

1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Conversely, accept that sometimes people will say “no” to you, for whatever reason, accept that and find someone else to give your business to. 

I was more so replying to the

Quote

So he got fined $500 and "they" got NOTHING. I hope this financially ruins "they". She brought this on "they"-self

Like it's a dick move to go out of your way to sue someone. But like I don't see why diechecker would wish financial ruin on that person.

Like if you choose to discriminate your services than you open yourself up to lawsuits. 

I'm not really going to be upset at someone for taking advantage of that discriminate to file a lawsuit.

[spartan max2]

39 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I'm not made, just pointing out that this person appears to not be actually trying to benefit LGTBQ rights, but is rather looking for a payday.

The dude was going to make them cake, as ordered, till she spoke up, purposefully, to rile him up. But it was never about the cake. It's about them getting money and vengeance. 

I'd question anyone who did the same for other protected classes.

That's speculate. But seeing how the payday is definitely not worth the time commitment of the court case than I'd assume for this person it wasent about the money.

They probably saw themselves as an activist. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by spartan max2

[jmccr8]

On 1/27/2023 at 9:30 AM, spartan max2 said:

But the court is saying you can't refuse to serve someone because of their gender identity.

Hi Spartan

I was refused entry at a pub years ago because I was too old as they were targeting the 20-35 age group which I thought was odd. Didn’t make a big deal about it as there were several pubs on that street.

[spartan max2]

2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Spartan

I was refused entry at a pub years ago because I was too old as they were targeting the 20-35 age group which I thought was odd. Didn’t make a big deal about it as there were several pubs on that street.

Congratulations? 

[jmccr8]

Just now, spartan max2 said:

Congratulations? 

Hi Spartan

Not sure what you mean but it was discrimination. I just don’t care if they don’t want to take my money it’s the same colour as anyone else’s and the guy a couple of doors down was more that happy to get some.

[spartan max2]

7 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Spartan

Not sure what you mean but it was discrimination. I just don’t care if they don’t want to take my money it’s the same colour as anyone else’s and the guy a couple of doors down was more that happy to get some.

I mean that's good for you. But I'm not sure what your point it.

You quoted me (post 35) about saying that the court ruled that you can't discriminate against someones gender identity by refusing services over it. 

Are you disagreeing with me over something or..?

Edited January 28, 2023 by spartan max2

[jmccr8]

9 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I mean that's good for you. But I'm not sure what your point it.

Once again my response was to diechecker wishing financial ruin on the one who sued. 

Do you wish financial ruin on the one who sued? 

Hi Spartan

I didn’t know why you put the question mark after congratulations is all. The basic premise of the thread is about a business refusing to serve someone because of a bias and my comment wasn’t directed to anyone.

Did I give any indication that I think anyone should be sued? Pretty sure I haven’t and what goes on with those individuals is between them just like the discussion between you and Die and said nothing in support of either of your positions.

Yes I did quote your post and my apologies for confusing you on my intent of making a comment. I just don’t think issues like this are all that significant and if someone doesn’t want to do business with you go someplace else there is always someone that will give you what you want.

Edited January 28, 2023 by jmccr8
Added to post

[+DieChecker]

2 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

That's speculate. But seeing how the payday is definitely not worth the time commitment of the court case than I'd assume for this person it wasent about the money.

They probably saw themselves as an activist. 

Yeah, it is just speculation. But either they were after money, or they really, really wanted to win for the LGTBQ community. I suppose without doing a full investigation on them, I couldn't/shouldn't really say which. 

I could, but I'm feeling too lazy on this.

[Unusual Tournament]

6 hours ago, Abramelin said:

If I had been that baker, I would probably find a way to get even with that couple. Find out what kind of business they are in, and give them a similar treatment.

An eye for an eye as they say...

If I was that baker and an activist (which is exactly what this person is) of any sort, came in looking to test me, for whatever reason, I would have just p***-ed in the cake batter and had my own inside joke. 

[simplybill]

Hmm…I think I have to agree with the Court on this one. Transitioning isn’t an actual biological event, so it seems this situation falls into the ‘Meat Sacrificed To Idols’ category: 

“So, what about eating meat that has been offered to idols? Well, we all know that an idol is not really a god and that there is only one God.”  1st Cor. 8:4

The Apostle Paul was writing to the Christian believers in Corinth where the priests of the pagan temples were sacrificing animals to their idols, and then selling the meat in the restaurants next door. The Christians had an ongoing debate over the appropriateness of eating the sacrificial meat. Paul assured them it was okay, but told them to keep it to themselves so as not to damage the faith of those who still had their doubts about it. 

I had a somewhat similar situation about 25 years ago in a restaurant in Las Vegas, Nevada. Down the street from the hotel, there was a fantastic hamburger restaurant that had a huge replica of Leonardo da Vinci’s ‘The Last Supper’ on the wall of the main dining room. But, standing at one end of the supper table, was the cartoon character Betty Boop holding a big tray of hamburgers, as though the Last Supper consisted of hamburgers and Coke instead of bread and wine.

When I sat down at my table and looked up and saw that painting, I honestly didn’t know if I should laugh or be offended. One the one hand I thought it was a very clever way of promoting their hamburgers, but on the other hand I suspected it was meant to mock Jesus (Las Vegas proudly sports the nickname “Sin City”).

Anyway, I had a delicious hamburger-and-fries dinner, and I left the restaurant and walked back to the hotel. Later, I learned from a gay coworker that the restaurant apparently promotes itself as being ‘Gay-owned’. I chalked it up as a 1st Cor. 8:4 situation and went back there for another delicious hamburger a few weeks later when I stayed at the same hotel.

Considering the current state of affairs here in the USA, I suppose I could go back to that restaurant tomorrow and bring a lawsuit against them for creating a hostile environment in which to eat hamburgers.  

Edited January 29, 2023 by simplybill

[+OverSword]

18 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Don't discriminate against people and you won't have to worry about a lawsuit. 

I'm not sure why you are so angry at them. 

You don't have to agree with someones pronouns to accept their money to make a cake 

Was the plaintiff also being discriminatory, maliciously targeting a Christian business? I believe so.

[spartan max2]

48 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Was the plaintiff also being discriminatory, maliciously targeting a Christian business? I believe so.

Targeted someone who they knew would break the law.

Many christian businesses serve trans people without any issue. 

I have no sympathy on the cake maker. Its not hard to not be discriminatory.

And as to what started people replying to me. Wishing financial ruin upon them for sueing seems dumb. 

[simplybill]

It’s this sentence from the article that raises questions for me about Mr. Phillips’ decision:

“But Judge Timothy Schutz, writing for the three-judge panel, said the pink cake with blue frosting Scardina requested expressed no message or imagery with any inherent meaning that would violate his rights.”

The transgender flag is three colors: pink, blue and white. In other words, a pink and blue-frosted cake carries no more significance than a cake with chocolate frosting.

I’ll be having breakfast tomorrow morning with a Christian friend. I’ll run this by him and get his opinion. 

[+OverSword]

1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

Targeted someone who they knew would break the law.

Many christian businesses serve trans people without any issue. 

I have no sympathy on the cake maker. Its not hard to not be discriminatory.

And as to what started people replying to me. Wishing financial ruin upon them for sueing seems dumb. 

I don’t agree that the plaintiff was planning on getting rich from this they are simply as ideologically possessed as the baker and perhaps more so.  In a way they deserve each other and neither are doing their own cause much good imo

Edited January 29, 2023 by OverSword

[simplybill]

I think there’s another aspect of this situation that hasn’t been put into the proper perspective.

It appears that Scardino sees the colors blue and pink as representative of his transition from male-to-female. This is a situation similar to SCJ Ketanji Brown Jackson’s inadvertent admission that Biology is what defines the word ‘Woman’.

Scardino, by specifying the colors blue and pink, is inadvertently admitting that there are only two genders to choose from: Male, traditionally represented by the color blue, and female, traditionally represented by the color pink. 

Keep in mind that the original starting point has been erased. Under the new definition of Gender, the use of the terms “male” and “female” when describing gender is an illegitimate social construct. In order for Scardino to logically agree with the Left’s assertion that there are 68 genders, he would have to state something similar to:

“I’m transitioning from Gender classification #26, sub-category B,  to Gender classification #42, sub-category C.

This would be in line with the new Gender guidelines, and would help clear up some of the confusion.

From Healthline.com:

”There are so many gender terms out there, many of which overlap. Some also have definitions that shift over time or across different sources of information.”

(from an article titled “68 Terms That Describe Gender Identity and Expression”)

https://www.healthline.com/health/different-genders

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by simplybill

[Agent0range]

Sorry, but making a pink cake with blue icing, no images or words does not go against your religion.  The guy is clearly just a bigot...

[+OverSword]

20 hours ago, Agent0range said:

Sorry, but making a pink cake with blue icing, no images or words does not go against your religion.  The guy is clearly just a bigot...

Once it is announced that the cake is to celebrate something that you believe your religion considers a sin then it is against your interpretation of your religion.  He agreed to make the cake until it was shoved in his face that it was for gender transition.  I believe that if the appeal goes before a more conservative court this ruling will be overturned based on that.   

[Doug1066]

If I were to open a business - store, restaurant, etc. - and decided I wasn't going to serve (blacks, Indians, Orientals, etc.) because it was against my religion, I would soon be prosecuted for discrimination.  So how does this baker think he's any different?

Doug

Edited January 30, 2023 by Doug1066