Can non-Christians go to Heaven?

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, and-then said:

I have no apologetics for most of your questions (shame on ME) but the one you asked in the title is answered here:

Acts 4:12

"And there is salvation in no one ... among men by which we must be saved.” ... There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved!” ... 

This^ IMO, is the basis for the hatred the world will express for Christians who actually believe this scripture and refuse to do what Graham did there.   Those who vehemently deny any such oppression or targeting of Christians, really can't be taken seriously in light of the horrors taking place in Sudan, China, and multiple other majority Islamic nations.  To give "credit" where due, China also cheerfully sends Muslims to "re-education" camps.  Little is allowed to leak out from the imprisoned Uyghurs but in general the reality seems to be that these Muslims are being dehumanized, physically and sexually abused, tortured and many are dying there.

Serious oppression and violence hasn't come to America yet but when it inevitably does, the battle cry of those who attack believers in Christ will be some version of "Christians are hate-filled and unwilling to coexist".  The last few years has been depressing, watching the mushrooming perversion and lawlessness in our culture and government but I've actually begun to remember - and finally accept - that all of this kind of degradation was predicted for the "last times".  While it is disheartening to know that it won't be stopped and in fact will increase explosively in the near future, it still must be seen by believers as an encouraging sign that every one of these abominations we are seeing on display in America, also signal the coming return of the Christ and the ultimate restoration of the sanity and true brotherly coexistence among those who only desire peace.

Regarding the Billy Graham vid... I'd never seen that exchange and it troubles me.  Much later in his life he sort of laughed off Bill Clinton's reputation as an adulterer but THIS comment truly disappoints me.    

Matthew 10:34-36:

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s foes will be those of his own household.”

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Just to add something more useful to this thread. I was once a Christian. The big message I got was that I'm doomed to hell regardless of what I do and Jesus can just boot me off the list to heaven whenever he chooses. I guess the answer is no one gets into heaven. 

You know my step dad a devout Catholic told me not to long ago he doesn’t believe there is a heaven, he said he thinks it’s something the church made up. 
 

Who knew

[+Hammerclaw]

8 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Ahahahaha best counter ever. I read the post and thought what is this cat smokin

 

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

If we go off the Bible, and Book of Revelation, then the way into the New Heaven, at the Final Judgement, is by having two variables be true.

1. Your name is written in the Book of Life. Which is assumed by most to mean, you have accepted Jesus as the Savior.

2. Jesus (The Judge) reads from the book of your life. What you did, and how you acted. To see if you fall into the "Good" category. Some take this to mean that you had died after repenting of all sins.

IMO, I think that #1 can be done anytime up to the point of Jesus sending you to Hell... Lake of Fire, Gehenna, Tartarus. You just say to Jesus, I accept you are the Savior, and boom, youre in.

I also think that #2 is a scales kind of thing, where if the good you did overbalances the wrong/evil/bad, then youre in.

I think the greater majority of people will get in. I think Jesus (God) is merciful in this.

Also, since there is a New Heaven, my supposition is there is a Current (Old) Heaven, which is a waiting place. Much like Purgatory, but nicer. 

Also Revelation says everyone, the living and the dead, will be Judged by Jesus, so I don't think there will be much in the way of FastPass lanes involved. No grandfathering here, IMO.

So, to answer the OP question. I think YES, and also NO, since no one that does not recognize Jesus as the Savior gets into Heaven. But, yes, in that each person will be allowed that opportunity, and most will recognize what is going on and react smartly. Some will be skeptical, and act as such and get burned.

Interesting, do you believe this? 

[Dejarma]

heaven does not exist so not even Christians will go there--

oh yeah, sorry nearly forgot:

existing for nearly 65 years on this planet, seen done experienced pretty much everything= of course it's just my opinion 

[+DieChecker]

8 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Interesting, do you believe this? 

I'd say this is a pretty good description of what I believe. A mix of Fundamentalism, and Progressivism, in my theology.

I believe people will have to be super dog stupid, outright evil, or seriously skeptical, in order to be left out of Heaven. And except for the "evil" ones, it will be at their own choosing.

We have had many people on UM who've said they would absolutely hate going to Heaven, even if what happens is based on your personal expectations. So a gay person's Heaven would be different in the experience then a "church lady's" Heaven. The "many mansions" idea. So, going off those posters statements, even if they realized, "Hey, this is real", which I think most people would, they plan on saying "No", and being left out.

[+Sherapy]

5 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I'd say this is a pretty good description of what I believe. A mix of Fundamentalism, and Progressivism, in my theology.

I believe people will have to be super dog stupid, outright evil, or seriously skeptical, in order to be left out of Heaven. And except for the "evil" ones, it will be at their own choosing.

We have had many people on UM who've said they would absolutely hate going to Heaven, even if what happens is based on your personal expectations. So a gay person's Heaven would be different in the experience then a "church lady's" Heaven. The "many mansions" idea. So, going off those posters statements, even if they realized, "Hey, this is real", which I think most people would, they plan on saying "No", and being left out.

Thank you for answering. I had never heard this before, it is an interesting beleif. 
 

[Dejarma]

3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

the New Heaven

is Romford, Essex, UK!
There hasn't been a murder, rape, beating, or even serious arson for knocking on 5 days now!
You want new bloody heaven= beat that!

Wonderful place

[+Sherapy]

3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Thank you for answering. I had never heard this before, it is an interesting beleif. 
 

One more thought, for myself I go with evolution as the best explanation.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Sherapy

[Tatetopa]

7 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

We have had many people on UM who've said they would absolutely hate going to Heaven, even if what happens is based on your personal expectations. So a gay person's Heaven would be different in the experience then a "church lady's" Heaven. The "many mansions" idea. So, going off those posters statements, even if they realized, "Hey, this is real", which I think most people would, they plan on saying "No", and being left out.

That is a good thing to remember.  But maybe the people who say no just wind up in their own version of heaven. And maybe hell is just that version of heaven that is most comfortable for those who fill their hearts with anger, hatred, and judgement rather than love.

[+DieChecker]

1 minute ago, Tatetopa said:

That is a good thing to remember.  But maybe the people who say no just wind up in their own version of heaven. And maybe hell is just that version of heaven that is most comfortable for those who fill their hearts with anger, hatred, and judgement rather than love.

That's a possibility.

One possibility is that rather then going to "Hell", they'd go to "NoWhere", a limbo. Or they just stay "Dead", and disappear. I kind of think that "Hell" is the punishment that people will expect they deserve. It's designed to be punishing, but the worse you think it will be the worse it is going to be. So someone "judged" as not going to Heaven might just go to a nothing, because they don't necessarily believe they deserve fire/pain/torture.

[+Sherapy]

2 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

That's a possibility.

One possibility is that rather then going to "Hell", they'd go to "NoWhere", a limbo. Or they just stay "Dead", and disappear. I kind of think that "Hell" is the punishment that people will expect they deserve. It's designed to be punishing, but the worse you think it will be the worse it is going to be. So someone "judged" as not going to Heaven might just go to a nothing, because they don't necessarily believe they deserve fire/pain/torture.

It’s Purgatory in Catholicism.  

Edited January 28, 2023 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

25 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

It’s Purgatory in Catholicism.  

That's the worst Catholics have to face. No Catholic goes to hell. Instead of the Devil, they have to face the Penguin and get re-educated.

[jmccr8]

54 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

heaven does not exist so not even Christians will go there--

oh yeah, sorry nearly forgot:

existing for nearly 65 years on this planet, seen done experienced pretty much everything= of course it's just my opinion 

Hi Dejarma

Yeah know what you means although there are things I haven’t done and not worried about as I ain’t dead yet.

There are a noticeable few(ahem, coff) that think I shouldn’t have done most of the things I did do, upside is I don’t care. 

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Dejarma

Yeah know what you means although there are things I haven’t done and not worried about as I ain’t dead yet.

There are a noticeable few(ahem, coff) that think I shouldn’t have done most of the things I did do, upside is I don’t care. 

You've done good. The biggest challenge facing one in life is surviving oneself.

[+Sherapy]

14 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Dejarma

Yeah know what you means although there are things I haven’t done and not worried about as I ain’t dead yet.

There are a noticeable few(ahem, coff) that think I shouldn’t have done most of the things I did do, upside is I don’t care. 

Amen

Everyday we are vertical it is a great thing. And, I know I speak for you at this point in life after what you have come through you can get thru anything.When I read your posts I read of a person who lives life with his heart and soul ( no woo intended), your passion for your life and you live it so fully. You are an inspiration. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

13 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

You've done good. The biggest challenge facing one in life is surviving oneself.

[Hankenhunter]

6 hours ago, pellinore said:

I was puzzling about this after reading posts in another thread here about atheism and theism.

According to the Bible, God sent Jesus down here to "spread the word". We have chosen the date Jesus was born as 0 BC, just for convenience.

However, we know history began around 3200 BC (in the sense of written records) and modern man, although he was not able to write or leave written records, has been around for about 300 thousand years.

What puzzles me, is, why did God leave it for several hundred thousand years before He wanted to teach us about Himself and the need to worship Him; and will the thousands (or maybe millions) of people  who died without the benefit of Christ's teaching (because he hadn't been born) go to Heaven anyway?

And a related question which I have just thought of- why did God just put one son down in the Middle East? Why didn't he decide to have several sons and have one on each continent, to spread the Word a bit more?

And, while we are on the subject of Children, why didn't he foresee the problems we would have with misogyny and patriarchy? I am sure he was equal opportunities, so shouldn't he have sent a Daughter down as well, as a bit of balance?

 

It doesn't matter if your atheist or not. God doesn't judge you. You are your own judge when you cross over. You get to see how your actions affected others good or bad. But having no ego after you die makes the life review just that. A review and a discussion of what you did right, and wrong.  You have free will, so you can decide to stay, or go back to try again. Earth is just a place for us to learn lessons that we've planned out ourselves. That's the short simplified version.

[+Hammerclaw]

Life's for living and death will take care of itself. I don't believe in hell or a judgment or punishment after death or a heaven denied save for a chosen few. I don't believe in a God so small. If there's anything after death, if life is just a waystation on our journey through existence, then what lies beyond is everyone's destination.

[jmccr8]

9 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Amen

Everyday we are vertical it is a great thing. And, I know I speak for you at this point in life after what you have come through you can get thru anything.When I read your posts I read of a person who lives life with his heart and soul ( no woo intended), your passion for your life and you live it so fully. You are an inspiration. 

Hi Sherapy

Thanks and I know it’s been a while since I have said you are a great influence on people and much appreciate knowing you, thank you for being who you are.

[jmccr8]

30 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

You've done good. The biggest challenge facing one in life is surviving oneself.

Thanks Hammer

The only thing I have ever really feared was myself so kept an eye on me even though I knew how much fun I could be or have no matter how bad things got.

[pellinore]

5 hours ago, eight bits said:

I don't know if this is responsive to your request or not. If not, then ay least it's short.

 

It's good.

[pellinore]

There is this view as well (the response to Pastor Alex):

 

[Freez1]

I believe there is a Heaven and a Hell. There is also Purgatory. A person that has lived a honest life and tried to be the best human being they could meaning not stealing, telling lies or hurting other people but yet helping others I feel strongly about this person being given a 2nd offer to believe and having a choice. But I could be wrong and this has my mind and heart set on believing because it’s a choice I would rather not take a chance on. According to the Bible if you are not baptized you can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. 

[newbloodmoon]

Heaven can be found here on earth and it depends on how deep your pockets are. Sorry ladies I’m unaware of any brothels one could visit if you’re looking for male companionship.

Disclaimer: I have never visited a brothel myself, that’s what back ally’s are for .