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How Should Lived Experience of Racism Count in Medical School Admissions?


WVK

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Abstract

There are fewer Black men in US medical schools today than in 1970. This and other kinds of ongoing inequity express the systemic racism Black Americans face in health care. Increasing Black physician representation in medicine is key to motivating health equity, so many colleges and universities have developed programs to recruit and retain students with minoritized identities. This article suggests how Black medical school applicants’ lived experiences of racism can contribute prominently to building medicine’s capacity to promote healing and health equity.

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/how-should-lived-experience-racism-count-medical-school-admissions/2021-12

 

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25 minutes ago, WVK said:

Abstract

There are fewer Black men in US medical schools today than in 1970. This and other kinds of ongoing inequity express the systemic racism Black Americans face in health care. Increasing Black physician representation in medicine is key to motivating health equity, so many colleges and universities have developed programs to recruit and retain students with minoritized identities. This article suggests how Black medical school applicants’ lived experiences of racism can contribute prominently to building medicine’s capacity to promote healing and health equity.

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/how-should-lived-experience-racism-count-medical-school-admissions/2021-12

 

I think we just need more doctors period, first figure out why there is a shortage of doctors in rural areas, then forget race and just use academic criteria and desire to go to medical school to determine who gets in.   This seems like a divisve non-issue to me, but maybe it is because I am not from the midwest.  In the rural areas all over the country no one cares what skin color their doctor has, they care that there actually is a doctor that will see them.   

As for the question, without clicking on the link I will just say that that is an idiotic question, no one should get preference based on their experiences (perceived or real) of being subjected to bigotry of any type.   This is not a black and white issue.

Besides, women of any ancestry usually make better doctors than men of any ancestry.

Edited by Desertrat56
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48 minutes ago, WVK said:

Abstract

There are fewer Black men in US medical schools today than in 1970. This and other kinds of ongoing inequity express the systemic racism Black Americans face in health care. Increasing Black physician representation in medicine is key to motivating health equity, so many colleges and universities have developed programs to recruit and retain students with minoritized identities. This article suggests how Black medical school applicants’ lived experiences of racism can contribute prominently to building medicine’s capacity to promote healing and health equity.

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/how-should-lived-experience-racism-count-medical-school-admissions/2021-12

 

Med Schools DROP Merit For Racial Admissions. Saagar breaks down how medical schools are dropping merit based standards to re-enforce racially based admissions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpH6jTMApW4

 

 

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Nice.  Those who are making these decisions should be forced to seek their medical assistance from products of "racially based admissions".  My wife's med school class had two black members.  They happened to be husband and wife and their MCAT scores were somewhat below the normal admission standard.  IIRC, she finished and graduated and he washed out.  Both were wonderful with patients and got along well with classmates but the grind got him.  

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1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

I think we just need more doctors period, first figure out why there is a shortage of doctors in rural areas, then forget race and just use academic criteria and desire to go to medical school to determine who gets in.   This seems like a divisve non-issue to me, but maybe it is because I am not from the midwest.  In the rural areas all over the country no one cares what skin color their doctor has, they care that there actually is a doctor that will see them.   

As for the question, without clicking on the link I will just say that that is an idiotic question, no one should get preference based on their experiences (perceived or real) of being subjected to bigotry of any type.   This is not a black and white issue.

Besides, women of any ancestry usually make better doctors than men of any ancestry.

I worked in small logging towns and visited coworkers in the tiny community clinics and hospitals. A lot of the doctors and nurses were  immigrants from India, Pakistan, Philippines and other countries.  We do not seem to have enough doctors or nurses, and small town clinics do not pay as much as city practices. It is a good place to get a start though I guess.  Some Oregon towns will pay a full ride for a med student if they contract to come back and serve in the community for 4-5 years.

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8 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I worked in small logging towns and visited coworkers in the tiny community clinics and hospitals. A lot of the doctors and nurses were  immigrants from India, Pakistan, Philippines and other countries.  We do not seem to have enough doctors or nurses, and small town clinics do not pay as much as city practices. It is a good place to get a start though I guess.  Some Oregon towns will pay a full ride for a med student if they contract to come back and serve in the community for 4-5 years.

The Navajo nation started doing that in the 70's, not just for doctors but lawyers and engineers too.    We have a lot of immigrant doctors here too, even from eastern europe as well as africa and pakistan.    But they don't stay any longer than any other doctor.  I don't know if the pay is low or why but this area can't keep doctors.    And you would think Albuquerque area, which has at least of the population of the state would not seem so rural but when you want or need a doctor it is like being in some isolated area.

Edited by Desertrat56
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I'm going to say that this affirmative action will lead to less qualified doctors by lowering standards of admission and passing. 

People pre-occupied with the race of their doctor may be part of the problem too. Most people just want a competent doctor period.

I understand the arguments for affirmative action, but that action needs to start early in the educational process and not in medical school admission. I want the best doctors available regardless of race.

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32 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I'm going to say that this affirmative action will lead to less qualified doctors by lowering standards of admission and passing. 

The market and capitalism will take care of it.   The least qualified doctors will wind up in the lowest paying jobs serving low income patients.  Maybe low income clinics will get more doctors than they currently have.  Better doctors will get a gradation of status and higher paying jobs just like now.

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1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

The market and capitalism will take care of it.   The least qualified doctors will wind up in the lowest paying jobs serving low income patients.  Maybe low income clinics will get more doctors than they currently have.  Better doctors will get a gradation of status and higher paying jobs just like now.

Its enough to call some hospital of being systematically racist, and they will cave, and hire whatever doctor who checks all woke marks...

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5 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

The market and capitalism will take care of it.   The least qualified doctors will wind up in the lowest paying jobs serving low income patients.  Maybe low income clinics will get more doctors than they currently have.  Better doctors will get a gradation of status and higher paying jobs just like now.

According to the video the top schools, Harvard, Columbia Stanford etc,  will be pumping out “equity” doctors.  So in the future imagine the horror when learning that your heart surgeon graduated Harvard.

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Great, in order to get more minority DR's, we will lower the bar and have more incompetent Doctors.   Great idea, eh?

 

The field is already open to minorities.  If they choose not to pursue it, it is on them and nothing needs to change.   

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One of my doctors is of Indian descent. He incidentally saved my life not too long ago. But, he has been a doctor for over 25 years. I would be hesitant to get a young doctor after lowering the standards. We saw how the Memphis police departments lowering of standards worked out.

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45 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Well of course you could just go to white doctors if you are worried.  We know all white doctors are competent right?

Can’t assume that unless white doctors were held to a higher standard.  

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12 minutes ago, WVK said:

Can’t assume that unless white doctors were held to a higher standard.  

Isn't that the assumption being made here?

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Not quite on topic, but my daughter and I have worked for doctors and we had a converstation the other day about how there are personality types linked to specialties.   I have known people when they were going through medical school and thought "I would never go to that one for any reason as a doctor".   There seems to be a program of purposeful sleep deprivation once you get past the 3rd year of medical school.   And that is a tactic used for mind control which is what it looks like to me.   People coming out of medical school and starting as an intern are sleep deprived and have no common sense.   Once they finish how ever many years they do as interns (depends on the specialty) they still need sleep.  

And being able to memorize the text books and pass the tests is no indication the person is going to be a good doctor.   I have been to some who have told me after describing why I am there "That never happens" and I take it to mean he didn't ever read about it in any of the textbooks he memorized.   If they don't know how to listen they are not good doctors no matter how high their test scores were.

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36 minutes ago, WVK said:

Don’t know but I assumed it was dumbed down for everyone 

Kind of the whole supply and demand mechanic in play.  Too many doctors and the standards go up to limit the field.  Too few doctors and the standards go down.  Just a thought, how much do medical schools help determine the salaries of doctors by controlling the supply?

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