When a gun saves a life

[Myles]

I thought I would start, what can be, an ongoing thread about when a gun is used correctly.

 

An 80-year-old Chicago man was hospitalized Monday following a home invasion Monday morning in which he shot an intruder.

 

"The victim was battered and sustained several injuries throughout the body and was transported to Resurrection Hospital in critical condition," the department said. 

At some point during the struggle, the man, who holds an Illinois Firearms Owner's Identification (FOID) card shot the suspect in the chest, police said. Both suspects fled the home. 

The male suspect went to a hospital in critical condition. The female was not injured. Both have been arrested.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/chicago-homeowner-shoots-intruder-chest-struggle-police

[+Desertrat56]

https://foac-pac.org/New-Mexico-Self-defense:-Armed-Senior-Couple-Holds-Burglar-At-Gunpoint-Until-Police-Arrive/Defense-Story/689

Elderly couple hold burgler at gunpoint until police arrive.    

This is a couple I am related to and the local paper had their names in the story, but I can't find it.  This happened years ago but we still laugh about it because the news used the term Elderly couple, and anyone who knew them would never consider them elderly.  The husband was still working as an ER doctor and had recently returned from the middle east where he worked for the  military at a frontlines hospital.   

 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

If guns don’t kill people, people kill people with guns, then guns don’t save People.

[Myles]

47 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

If guns don’t kill people, people kill people with guns, then guns don’t save People.

Yeah, I should have worded it "When having a gun saves a life"..

Edited January 31 by Myles

[psyche101]

Guns in America: For every criminal killed in self-defense, 34 innocent people die

“The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun,” LaPierre said

The challenge to that argument is that, data show, guns are rarely used in self-defense -- especially relative to the rate at which they're used in criminal homicides or suicides. A recent report from the Violence Policy Center, a gun control advocacy group, put those numbers in some perspective, and I dug up the raw numbers from the FBI's homicide data. Take a look:

 In 2012, there were 8,855 criminal gun homicides in the FBI's homicide database, but only 258 gun killings by private citizens that were deemed justifiable, which the FBI defines as "the killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen."

That works out to one justifiable gun death for every 34 unjustifiable gun deaths.

Or, look at it this way. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data shows that in 2012 there were 20,666 suicides by gun. That works out to one self-defense killing for every 78 gun suicides. CDC data show that there were more than twice as many accidental gun fatalities as as justifiable killings.

 

 

 

[the13bats]

11 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

https://foac-pac.org/New-Mexico-Self-defense:-Armed-Senior-Couple-Holds-Burglar-At-Gunpoint-Until-Police-Arrive/Defense-Story/689

Elderly couple hold burgler at gunpoint until police arrive.    

This is a couple I am related to and the local paper had their names in the story, but I can't find it.  This happened years ago but we still laugh about it because the news used the term Elderly couple, and anyone who knew them would never consider them elderly.  The husband was still working as an ER doctor and had recently returned from the middle east where he worked for the  military at a frontlines hospital.   

 

Bsck before net i recall a story i liked out of south florida, iirc the guy jumps into the girls car with his stuff out going to sexually assault her well she just happens to have a nice stungun which she holds on the guys stuff until police get there, i guess she kept zapping him out of anger and the guy had to be carried off on a stretcher all messed up.

[pellinore]

I'm not anti-gun per se (I like them, I joined the TA partly because I like them), but:

I wonder how often having a gun saves a life in the UK or,say, Switzerland? I'm guessing not many times if at all.

There must be a peculiar feature unique to US guns in that they can save lives, European manufactures haven't fitted that safety feature to theirs.

[Myles]

7 hours ago, pellinore said:

I'm not anti-gun per se (I like them, I joined the TA partly because I like them), but:

I wonder how often having a gun saves a life in the UK or,say, Switzerland? I'm guessing not many times if at all.

There must be a peculiar feature unique to US guns in that they can save lives, European manufactures haven't fitted that safety feature to theirs.

In the USA, it is a case that criminals have guns.  Criminals knowing that most in rural areas have guns is a good deterrence to keep them from targeting rural areas. 

[+Desertrat56]

9 hours ago, pellinore said:

I'm not anti-gun per se (I like them, I joined the TA partly because I like them), but:

I wonder how often having a gun saves a life in the UK or,say, Switzerland? I'm guessing not many times if at all.

There must be a peculiar feature unique to US guns in that they can save lives, European manufactures haven't fitted that safety feature to theirs.

I don't think it is the guns, it is the attitude of the people who own them and the surprise of the felons that someone actually would threaten them with it.   Most criminals think their victims should be afraid of them, but a gun weilding old lady can put them in their place without needing to fire a shot as long as the old lady is sure about herself and her abilities to use the gun.    In the UK people don't have guns except for sport.   You have been talked out of thinking you could use it to protect yourself.  In the U.S. we are constantly reminded it is our right and what happened before the war of independence is the reason for that.  Yes, we have unhinged people shooting in to crowds sometimes, but I have seen stories about knife weilding unhinged people doing some damage in crowds across the pond.   The key is mental health, not what kind of weapons people own.

Edited February 1 by Desertrat56

[Katniss]

2 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I don't think it is the guns, it is the attitude of the people who own them and the surprise of the felons that someone actually would threaten them with it.   Most criminals think their victims should be afraid of them, but a gun weilding old lady can put them in their place without needing to fire a shot as long as the old lady is sure about herself and her abilities to use the gun.    In the UK people don't have guns except for sport.   You have been talked out of thinking you could use it to protect yourself.  In the U.S. we are constantly reminded it is our right and what happened before the war of independence is the reason for that.  Yes, we have unhinged people shooting in to crowds sometimes, but I have seen stories about knife weilding unhinged people doing some damage in crowds across the pond.   The key is mental health, not what kind of weapons people own.

I don't know why, but after reading that, Granny from The Beverly Hillbillies popped into my mind.

Great American television sitcom. I always liked Irene Ryan's character.

[pellinore]

2 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I don't think it is the guns, it is the attitude of the people who own them and the surprise of the felons that someone actually would threaten them with it.   Most criminals think their victims should be afraid of them, but a gun weilding old lady can put them in their place without needing to fire a shot as long as the old lady is sure about herself and her abilities to use the gun.    In the UK people don't have guns except for sport.   You have been talked out of thinking you could use it to protect yourself.  In the U.S. we are constantly reminded it is our right and what happened before the war of independence is the reason for that.  Yes, we have unhinged people shooting in to crowds sometimes, but I have seen stories about knife weilding unhinged people doing some damage in crowds across the pond.   The key is mental health, not what kind of weapons people own.

If we were allowed guns in the UK I would definitely carry one. There are a few people I'd like to settle a score with- the bloke who tailgated me this morning that I couldn't brake-check because I had a dog in the back, and the landlord of a local pub who refused to serve me last night "because I had already had enough", to name but two.

[Robotic Jew]

It's going to be really bad when this country reaches where it's currently going....

[+Desertrat56]

3 minutes ago, pellinore said:

If we were allowed guns in the UK I would definitely carry one. There are a few people I'd like to settle a score with- the bloke who tailgated me this morning that I couldn't brake-check because I had a dog in the back, and the landlord of a local pub who refused to serve me last night "because I had already had enough", to name but two.

Sounds like it is a good thing you don't have a gun.   As for doing a brake check when someone is tailgating, I found it more effective to just take my foot off the gas or continue to slow down gradually until the jerk passes.   A brake check can cause an accident, or it can cause some road rage by the jerk tail gating.   On the multi-lane highways I just turn my blinker on and the tailgaters usually jump in which ever lane I put my signal for and pass on. 

[Gromdor]

6 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Sounds like it is a good thing you don't have a gun.   As for doing a brake check when someone is tailgating, I found it more effective to just take my foot off the gas or continue to slow down gradually until the jerk passes.   A brake check can cause an accident, or it can cause some road rage by the jerk tail gating.   On the multi-lane highways I just turn my blinker on and the tailgaters usually jump in which ever lane I put my signal for and pass on. 

There was a guy in a blue pickup truck that went to work the same time I did about 10 years or so ago.  He would drive 55 in the left lane of the interstate at around 5am every day.  If you went behind him, he would brake check you.  So I usually just passed him on the right lane because the interstate was usually empty at that time.  About 6 months went by and the guy makes the news.  He braked checked someone that didn't have good brakes and ended up winning a permanent nap and a Darwin Award.  I tried googling for him but way to many people seemed to have died on the interstate to find the article.

[+Desertrat56]

2 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

There was a guy in a blue pickup truck that went to work the same time I did about 10 years or so ago.  He would drive 55 in the left lane of the interstate at around 5am every day.  If you went behind him, he would brake check you.  So I usually just passed him on the right lane because the interstate was usually empty at that time.  About 6 months went by and the guy makes the news.  He braked checked someone that didn't have good brakes and ended up winning a permanent nap and a Darwin Award.  I tried googling for him but way to many people seemed to have died on the interstate to find the article.

That guy seemed to be the jerk in that situation.    I remember one day a long time ago driving in to town on the freeway (3 to 4 lanes each direction)  when the speed limit was 55, it is 65 now so everyone drives 75.   This guy was driving in the center lane going exactlly 55 miles an hour with his hand out the window flashing all five fingers, then closing his fist and flashing again.  It seemed he was bugged that no one drove the speed limit.   Everyone just went around him.

[Myles]

1 hour ago, pellinore said:

If we were allowed guns in the UK I would definitely carry one. There are a few people I'd like to settle a score with- the bloke who tailgated me this morning that I couldn't brake-check because I had a dog in the back, and the landlord of a local pub who refused to serve me last night "because I had already had enough", to name but two.

I agree with Desert, it is good that you do not have a gun.   I don't carry but if I did, I wouldn't even think about using it unless I was attacked with force or I was helping someone.  

Edited February 1 by Myles

[psyche101]

7 hours ago, pellinore said:

If we were allowed guns in the UK I would definitely carry one. There are a few people I'd like to settle a score with- the bloke who tailgated me this morning that I couldn't brake-check because I had a dog in the back, and the landlord of a local pub who refused to serve me last night "because I had already had enough", to name but two.

Seriously dude WTF 

You're a good reason as to why regulations exist.

But you have illustrated America's failure by advocating gun culture. How many people like this own guns in America? More than any proponent is prepared to admit. 

Edited February 2 by psyche101

[simplybill]

12 hours ago, Myles said:

Criminals knowing that most in rural areas have guns is a good deterrence to keep them from targeting rural areas. 

Very true. I can’t remember ever reading about a home invasion here in rural Iowa. 
I don’t own a firearm myself, but I’m a member of the National Rifle Association just to support their firearms safety classes for women. 

[Tatetopa]

37 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Seriously dude WTF 

I kinda think pellinore was using irony without declaring his intention.  Sure could be wrong though.  

[psyche101]

21 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I kinda think pellinore was using irony without declaring his intention.  Sure could be wrong though.  

We really need that sarcasm emoji....... 

[pellinore]

3 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Seriously dude WTF 

You're a good reason as to why regulations exist.

But you have illustrated America's failure by advocating gun culture. How many people like this own guns in America? More than any proponent is prepared to admit. 

 

10 hours ago, Myles said:

I agree with Desert, it is good that you do not have a gun.   I don't carry but if I did, I wouldn't even think about using it unless I was attacked with force or I was helping someone.  

 

11 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Sounds like it is a good thing you don't have a gun.   As for doing a brake check when someone is tailgating, I found it more effective to just take my foot off the gas or continue to slow down gradually until the jerk passes.   A brake check can cause an accident, or it can cause some road rage by the jerk tail gating.   On the multi-lane highways I just turn my blinker on and the tailgaters usually jump in which ever lane I put my signal for and pass on. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

I kinda think pellinore was using irony without declaring his intention.  Sure could be wrong though.  

I agree I shouldn't have a gun, given that, in this scenario, I'm harbouring a few grudges. But how would anyone know that before I went postal? I don't have known MH issues, or a criminal record, or a history of domestic violence. The worst I have is, possibly a history of brake-checking people (I haven't really). That is the tragedy of allowing free access to guns. 

[psyche101]

39 minutes ago, pellinore said:

 

 

 

 

I agree I shouldn't have a gun, given that, in this scenario, I'm harbouring a few grudges. But how would anyone know that before I went postal? I don't have known MH issues, or a criminal record, or a history of domestic violence. The worst I have is, possibly a history of brake-checking people (I haven't really). That is the tragedy of allowing free access to guns. 

Good point but I'll say again that we could really use a sarcasm emoji. I don't know your posting well and I took it at face value. I get it now 

 

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, pellinore said:

 

 

 

 

I agree I shouldn't have a gun, given that, in this scenario, I'm harbouring a few grudges. But how would anyone know that before I went postal? I don't have known MH issues, or a criminal record, or a history of domestic violence. The worst I have is, possibly a history of brake-checking people (I haven't really). That is the tragedy of allowing free access to guns. 

Hi Pellinore

Actually by making a statement in a public forum such as you did it could be used as evidence if you did go postal which is why I tend to try and get people to think about saying things like shoot him/them.

 

[pellinore]

I'll leave it for a bit then.

[Myles]

9 hours ago, simplybill said:

Very true. I can’t remember ever reading about a home invasion here in rural Iowa. 
 

Of course they happen but knowing the homeowners may be armed is a deterrence.

I imagine the people who live around you have guns.