When a gun saves a life

[+OverSword]

 

[+Desertrat56]

5 minutes ago, simplybill said:

I’m not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that legal gun shops are owned by criminal gangs?

No, I am saying that criminal gangs control illegal gun trade, not just them but other bigger money criminals, control gun trade all over the world, including int he U.S.  Do you think criminal gangs worry about having a legal weapon?   And do you think large batches of guns don't get stolen from  military bases and manufacturers to be sold on the black market?   

Edited February 7, 2023 by Desertrat56

[Buzz_Light_Year]

On 2/6/2023 at 12:45 AM, psyche101 said:

Street criminals don't.

[simplybill]

1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

No, I am saying that criminal gangs control illegal gun trade, not just them but other bigger money criminals, control gun trade all over the world, including int he U.S.  Do you think criminal gangs worry about having a legal weapon?   And do you think large batches of guns don't get stolen from  military bases and manufacturers to be sold on the black market?   

We’re actually in agreement here. In an earlier thread about gun control, I made the same points as you did in your above reply.

[simplybill]

One example of the use of firearms for self-defense happened to a woman I knew when I lived in Utah. According to her side of the story, an ex-boyfriend was harassing her. She bought a legal firearm, and later, when he called and told her he was coming to her house, she told him, “If you come to my house, I’ll shoot you in the foot.” He stopped harassing her.

If she didn’t own a firearm, the situation may have turned out differently. She would have to call the police, and then hope that the police arrived before the ex did.

[+Desertrat56]

27 minutes ago, simplybill said:

One example of the use of firearms for self-defense happened to a woman I knew when I lived in Utah. According to her side of the story, an ex-boyfriend was harassing her. She bought a legal firearm, and later, when he called and told her he was coming to her house, she told him, “If you come to my house, I’ll shoot you in the foot.” He stopped harassing her.

If she didn’t own a firearm, the situation may have turned out differently. She would have to call the police, and then hope that the police arrived before the ex did.

My sister in law's mother had to do that with her ex husband.  He would show up drunk and abusive and she got him to stop coming around when she met him at the door with a 22 rifle a relative had given her (this was in the 60's).  Two weeks later he was killed in a car accident (drunk driving).     It doesn't always work out like your friend and my sister in laws mother, depending on the law and the abuser's influence in the community.

[simplybill]

24 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

she met him at the door with a 22 rifle

I recently had dinner with a woman who was at work when her elderly husband answered the door at home to a middle-aged couple who kidnapped him, drove him to an ATM to withdraw money, then took him back home and beat him to death. A neighbor’s Ring camera recorded the couple coming and going, and the killers were apprehended a few hours later.

What the anti-gun people don’t seem to understand is that criminals take advantage of victims who are weaker than them. Owning a firearm can erase that advantage.

[+Desertrat56]

4 minutes ago, simplybill said:

I recently had dinner with a woman who was at work when her elderly husband answered the door at home to a middle-aged couple who kidnapped him, drove him to an ATM to withdraw money, then took him back home and beat him to death. A neighbor’s Ring camera recorded the couple coming and going, and the killers were apprehended a few hours later.

What the anti-gun people don’t seem to understand is that criminals take advantage of victims who are weaker than them. Owning a firearm can erase that advantage.

Only if you know how to use the firearm, owning one doesn't make you safe, knowing how to handle it and practicing not letting someone take it away from you helps make you safe.   I'm sorry for your friend, it must have been awful for her and her husband.   It is probably still awful for her.   I can't even imagine.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Desertrat56

[Myles]

12 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Only if you know how to use the firearm, owning one doesn't make you safe, knowing how to handle it and practicing not letting someone take it away from you helps make you safe.   I'm sorry for your friend, it must have been awful for her and her husband.   It is probably still awful for her.   I can't even imagine.

Yes, you have to look like you hold it with confidence.   A shooting range or rural backyard can do wonders for your confidence when holding a weapon.  

[simplybill]

10 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Only if you know how to use the firearm, owning one doesn't make you safe, knowing how to handle it and practicing not letting someone take it away from you helps make you safe.

That’s why I maintain my membership in the NRA even though I don’t own a firearm myself. 
The NRA provides hundreds of gun safety classes yearly. It’s important to me that women know how to safely handle and use a firearm when it becomes necessary. 

[+Desertrat56]

2 minutes ago, simplybill said:

That’s why I maintain my membership in the NRA even though I don’t own a firearm myself. 
The NRA provides hundreds of gun safety classes yearly. It’s important to me that women know how to safely handle and use a firearm when it becomes necessary. 

Yes, it is the only reason my daughter belongs to the NRA because they have the most accessible range in our area and they teach lots of classes. Her ex is a hunter and their 12 year old got a rifle for his birthday.  She will not let him use it without getting training.

[Myles]

6 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Yes, it is the only reason my daughter belongs to the NRA because they have the most accessible range in our area and they teach lots of classes. Her ex is a hunter and their 12 year old got a rifle for his birthday.  She will not let him use it without getting training.

You have raised a smart daughter.  

[+Desertrat56]

11 minutes ago, Myles said:

You have raised a smart daughter.  

She's the smartest person I know.  Much smarter than I am.

[+OverSword]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vby4CgLOR44

[Myles]

18 minutes ago, OverSword said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vby4CgLOR44

She did what she had to do.  Armed intruders will die when breaking into some homes.   It needs to happen more to send a message.

[psyche101]

12 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

They don't. 

Have the guts to have a look yourself. Come on down. 

[psyche101]

More responsible gun owners 

 

Boy, 12, accidentally shoots and kills himself during sleepover at friend's ...

Vero Beach boy, 14, dies after friend accidentally shoots him, police say

8-year-old boy accidentally shot and killed by brother playing with shotgun

Bradenton teen, 15, accidentally shoots friend while playing with gun, deputies say

 

I think you need more guns to expedite the Darwin Award process.

Only in America 

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[+Desertrat56]

17 hours ago, Myles said:

She did what she had to do.  Armed intruders will die when breaking into some homes.   It needs to happen more to send a message.

Some states have laws that if someone breaks into your house and is unarmed, you are not allowed to shoot them or use any kind of weapon against them (Texas has that type of law).  If they break in to your house and have a gun you can shoot them.   You can't put glass shards on your wall to keep intruders out but you can leave stuff on the ground by the wall that will alert you that someone has invaded your space.   I know that because when I lived in Texas we had break ins and I caught someone on my back "patio" in my apartment.   I turned the light on and he left but I told the cop I was going to make sure no one came over my wall and he told me that I would  be prosecuted if someone hurt themselves trying to come over my wall.  I opted for putting lots of empty aluminum cans on the patio floor.   (long before cameras were affordable)  What ever you plan to protect yourself make sure it is legal in your state.

[Myles]

40 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Some states have laws that if someone breaks into your house and is unarmed, you are not allowed to shoot them or use any kind of weapon against them (Texas has that type of law).  If they break in to your house and have a gun you can shoot them.   You can't put glass shards on your wall to keep intruders out but you can leave stuff on the ground by the wall that will alert you that someone has invaded your space.   I know that because when I lived in Texas we had break ins and I caught someone on my back "patio" in my apartment.   I turned the light on and he left but I told the cop I was going to make sure no one came over my wall and he told me that I would  be prosecuted if someone hurt themselves trying to come over my wall.  I opted for putting lots of empty aluminum cans on the patio floor.   (long before cameras were affordable)  What ever you plan to protect yourself make sure it is legal in your state.

It's pretty clear in Indiana.

 

Invading someone's home legally justifies deadly force.

Part of Indiana’s self-defense law follows what is sometimes called Castle Doctrine — policy that grants a person the right to defend themselves in their own home. It goes one step beyond the rest of Indiana's self-defense policy, though.

Under Castle Doctrine, a home's resident does not have to articulate why they reasonably believed an intruder would have hurt them or another person in order to justify using deadly force. The fact that the intruder illegally entered or attacked the other person's home is considered proof of a threat.

However, that Castle Doctrine policy only applies in someone's dwelling, the attached property — like a yard or porch — or their vehicle, while it is occupied.

A workplace or other public area does not qualify a person for the Castle Doctrine protections unless they sleep in the same building, Hermann told the audience.

You do not have to retreat in your own home.

Hermann and Wedding recommended people call 911 as soon as possible when they spot an intruder.

“If you don’t have to engage them, then don’t,” Wedding said.

However, Indiana law states people do not have a duty to retreat before using force if the situation meets the standards to use deadly force. Warrick County Chief Deputy Michael Wilder said in an email that people should remember that includes an unlawful entry or attack on someone's home, occupied vehicle or property attached to their home — also the places protected under the Castle Doctrine.

Wedding advised the audience Thursday that if they were not comfortable carrying a gun and do not believe they could shoot and kill an intruder, they could use nonlethal options like pepper spray as well.

 

[+Desertrat56]

13 minutes ago, Myles said:

It's pretty clear in Indiana.

 

Invading someone's home legally justifies deadly force.

Part of Indiana’s self-defense law follows what is sometimes called Castle Doctrine — policy that grants a person the right to defend themselves in their own home. It goes one step beyond the rest of Indiana's self-defense policy, though.

Under Castle Doctrine, a home's resident does not have to articulate why they reasonably believed an intruder would have hurt them or another person in order to justify using deadly force. The fact that the intruder illegally entered or attacked the other person's home is considered proof of a threat.

However, that Castle Doctrine policy only applies in someone's dwelling, the attached property — like a yard or porch — or their vehicle, while it is occupied.

A workplace or other public area does not qualify a person for the Castle Doctrine protections unless they sleep in the same building, Hermann told the audience.

You do not have to retreat in your own home.

Hermann and Wedding recommended people call 911 as soon as possible when they spot an intruder.

“If you don’t have to engage them, then don’t,” Wedding said.

However, Indiana law states people do not have a duty to retreat before using force if the situation meets the standards to use deadly force. Warrick County Chief Deputy Michael Wilder said in an email that people should remember that includes an unlawful entry or attack on someone's home, occupied vehicle or property attached to their home — also the places protected under the Castle Doctrine.

Wedding advised the audience Thursday that if they were not comfortable carrying a gun and do not believe they could shoot and kill an intruder, they could use nonlethal options like pepper spray as well.

 

Much different from Texas.  They have to be inside your dwelling before you can defend yourself unless they literally attack you where ever else you may be, but you cannot shoot a man attacking you with a knife.

[Myles]

4 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Much different from Texas.  They have to be inside your dwelling before you can defend yourself unless they literally attack you where ever else you may be, but you cannot shoot a man attacking you with a knife.

That is crazy.  Defending your life or your families life in your own home should allow you to use any weapon you have.

[+Desertrat56]

5 minutes ago, Myles said:

That is crazy.  Defending your life or your families life in your own home should allow you to use any weapon you have.

No, there is a rule, if a guy attacks you with a knife you can kill him with a knife, if he is unarmed or attacks you with a baseball bat or what ever that is not a gun you cannot shoot him to protect yourself.   If he/she has a gun you can shoot him or her before he/she draws it (I believe) but you have to be able to prove a reasonable fear that he/she will use the gun.   

Edited February 8, 2023 by Desertrat56

[Gunn]

11 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

No, there is a rule, if a guy attacks you with a knife you can kill him with a knife, if he is unarmed or attacks you with a baseball bat or what ever that is not a gun you cannot shoot him to protect yourself.   If he/she has a gun you can shoot him or her before he/she draws it (I believe) but you have to be able to prove a reasonable fear that he/she will use the gun.   

How about a sword against a knife? It just so happens my sword   I mean knife is bigger and longer. Lol.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Gunn

[+Desertrat56]

2 minutes ago, Gunn said:

How about a sword against a knife? It just so happens my sword   I mean knife is bigger and longer. Lol.

I don't know if the law gets that complex, I no longer live in Texas and don't know the laws in New Mexico except that the cops are allowed to empty their weapons on an unarmed man for not complying when they tell him to stop or what ever.   There have been two recent incidents, one   4 cops emptied their weapons into an unarmed man, another where 2 cops shot an unarmed man with 2 or 3 rounds each.

[+Desertrat56]

I think the cops should have to abide by the laws civilians do.  If a private person cannot shoot an unarmed burgler, a cop should not be allowed to shoot an unarmed suspect, for one thing, a suspect is just that, not proven guilty yet.  In Albuquerque over the years we have had a lot of cop killings, a cop killed an elderly woman in her own home with a tazer, around the same decade two cops shot an unarmed guy out of a tree because he said he would not come out of the tree because he was afraid they would shoot him, it was a public park with bystanders (some children); another incident was a cop shooting a mentally ill man in his own yard, his mother had called for an ambulance but the cops showed up instead.   Many other incidents, some involving shooting some involving other kinds of violence so if you live in this city it is understandable if you don't trust the cops.   I never felt that way in Texas, but I did in Virginia.