Crazy Horse Posted January 31 #1 Share Posted January 31 What was His attitude when confronted by scoffers, agents, and the ignorant? We know He became enraged with the Temple corruption, but, at other times He would remain gentle and wise. So, was Christ a doormat, or did He confront wrong-doing, corruption, and low moral standards head-on? Did He ever turn the other cheek when there was wrong-doing involved? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted January 31 #2 Share Posted January 31 I'd say he showed the wisdom to act in different ways depending on the circumstances. "Render unto Caeser that which is Caeser's'. No use in provoking a Roman slaughter of Jews at that very point. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ell Posted January 31 Popular Post #3 Share Posted January 31 Was Christ a tortoise? This is a fun game. Next! 1 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphalesion Posted January 31 #4 Share Posted January 31 I mean all of the Gospels are heavily mythologized and written to highlight whatever picture of "Christ" the writer wanted to convey. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted January 31 #5 Share Posted January 31 49 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said: What was His attitude when confronted by scoffers, agents, and the ignorant? We know He became enraged with the Temple corruption, but, at other times He would remain gentle and wise. So, was Christ a doormat, or did He confront wrong-doing, corruption, and low moral standards head-on? Did He ever turn the other cheek when there was wrong-doing involved? He was assertive enough to cause the powerful leaders in Jerusalem to seek to have Him executed. The more pertinent question today would be to ask average folks how they would expect Him to behave when He returns. Most have no clue and assume He will be the humble, longsuffering servant He was the first time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted January 31 #6 Share Posted January 31 He was a fictional character. He's whatever the plot of the story requires. "You're a Wizard, Jesus." 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight bits Posted January 31 #7 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said: We know He became enraged with the Temple corruption, but, at other times He would remain gentle and wise. Well, in Mark, at about the same time he did his Temple number, he killed a fig tree because he lost track of when figs are in season. He's often not very nice to his students, either. Later gospels clean that up quite a bit. - 1 hour ago, and-then said: He was assertive enough to cause the powerful leaders in Jerusalem to seek to have Him executed. In real life, according to Josephus, the "powerful leaders in Jerusalem" flayed Jesus ben Ananus to the bone before the Roman governor said enough was enough. All that Jesus did was predict that Jerusalem and the Temple were doomed, no specifics. He wasn't "assertive," he was mentally ill or possibly cognitively impaired. Not saying that your guy was either of those, just saying that it didn't take much to convince the big hats to off somebody. Quote The more pertinent question today would be to ask average folks how they would expect Him to behave when He returns. Most have no clue and assume He will be the humble, longsuffering servant He was the first time. At the very least, I'd expect him to apologize for being so late. Edited January 31 by eight bits 4 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted January 31 #8 Share Posted January 31 12 minutes ago, eight bits said: Well, in Mark, at about the same time he did his Temple number, he killed a fig tree because he lost track of when figs are in season. He's often not very nice to his students, either. Later gospels clean that up quite a bit. - In real life, according to Josephus, the "powerful leaders in Jerusalem" flayed Jesus ben Ananus to the bone before the Roman governor said enough was enough. All that Jesus did was predict that Jerusalem and the Temple were doomed, no specifics. He wasn't "assertive," he was mentally ill or possibly cognitively impaired. Not saying that your guy was either of those, just saying that it didn't take much to convince the big hats to off somebody. At the very least, I'd expect him to apologize for being so late. In the case of Jesus ben Ananias they didn’t even have to ‘off’ him as he survived for about 7 years before being crushed by a catapult boulder. Some might have considered that divine retribution. cormac 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted January 31 #9 Share Posted January 31 12 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said: he survived for about 7 years before being crushed by a catapult boulder. Puts a different twist on "Cast the first stone". 1 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted January 31 #10 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said: What was His attitude when confronted by scoffers, agents, and the ignorant? We know He became enraged with the Temple corruption, but, at other times He would remain gentle and wise. So, was Christ a doormat, or did He confront wrong-doing, corruption, and low moral standards head-on? Did He ever turn the other cheek when there was wrong-doing involved? He seemed to be plagued by aspects of the being human too, like other humans such as claiming himself a god, making empty promises with no intention of honoring them, dishonest seems to fit, possible mental illness, He had a temper and was aggressive. “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” Matthew 10:34 For me, he seemed at times like Benny Hinn bamboozled his followers with magic tricks. And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for people were saying, "He is beside himself". And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, "He is possessed by Be-el′zebul, and by the prince of demons he casts out the demons". — Mark 3:21–22 (RSV) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Jesus Edited January 31 by Sherapy 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted January 31 #11 Share Posted January 31 23 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Puts a different twist on "Cast the first stone". That's why they changed it to a crucifixion. Kind of hard to resurrect when your halfway under a rock from a trebuchet and probably partially eaten because it happened during the Siege of Jerusalem. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight bits Posted January 31 #12 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said: In the case of Jesus ben Ananias they didn’t even have to ‘off’ him as he survived for about 7 years before being crushed by a catapult boulder. Some might have considered that divine retribution. It is interesting, though, that Josephus (a big hat in his own right before switching sides to join the Romans) places the story as the climax of a series of omens and portents supernaturally foretelling the imminent destruction of Jerusalem. Josephus took this story seriously. The Roman governor thought the man was insane, but Josephus at least flirts with him having been divinely inspired. - 51 minutes ago, Piney said: That's why they changed it to a crucifixion. Kind of hard to resurrect when your halfway under a rock from a trebuchet and probably partially eaten because it happened during the Siege of Jerusalem. Partially? (OK that's gross enough, I'll leave it there.) If we didn't have the gospels, and obviously Mark didn't if he's writing the very first one, and we were "filling in" a life for Jesus starting from the few sketchy things that Paul says about him that may refer to a historical person, then I think we might wonder whether Paul was saying that his Jesus died by stoning and then his corpse was gibbeted. That is, Paul's Jesus was crucified in the sense of the Deuteronomy-specified punishment for grievous offenses. Not that he died on the cross (which extant Paul never says he did), but that he was stoned to death and then displayed on a wooden stake (the punishment that Paul actually analyzes to show that it doesn't disqualify Jesus from being the Christ). Paul's Jesus is never pinned down to a specific time or place. Mark chooses Paul's generation in Palestine. OK, then, the Romans would need to sign off on that person's execution, and it would be their style of crucifixion, not Deuteronomy's. "Hmm, let's see," thinks Mark, "are there any good stories about Temple officials trying to enlist Roman cooperation in killing an inconvenient fellow Jew?" Yes, there was, as it happens. Good writers borrow; great writers steal. 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted January 31 #13 Share Posted January 31 7 minutes ago, eight bits said: Good writers borrow; great writers steal. Hey! I resemble that remark! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted January 31 #14 Share Posted January 31 Curious how Jesus, after Roman custom, was deified after his death, unofficially. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted January 31 #15 Share Posted January 31 31 minutes ago, eight bits said: It is interesting, though, that Josephus (a big hat in his own right before switching sides to join the Romans) places the story as the climax of a series of omens and portents supernaturally foretelling the imminent destruction of Jerusalem. Josephus took this story seriously. The Roman governor thought the man was insane, but Josephus at least flirts with him having been divinely inspired. - Partially? (OK that's gross enough, I'll leave it there.) If we didn't have the gospels, and obviously Mark didn't if he's writing the very first one, and we were "filling in" a life for Jesus starting from the few sketchy things that Paul says about him that may refer to a historical person, then I think we might wonder whether Paul was saying that his Jesus died by stoning and then his corpse was gibbeted. That is, Paul's Jesus was crucified in the sense of the Deuteronomy-specified punishment for grievous offenses. Not that he died on the cross (which extant Paul never says he did), but that he was stoned to death and then displayed on a wooden stake (the punishment that Paul actually analyzes to show that it doesn't disqualify Jesus from being the Christ). Paul's Jesus is never pinned down to a specific time or place. Mark chooses Paul's generation in Palestine. OK, then, the Romans would need to sign off on that person's execution, and it would be their style of crucifixion, not Deuteronomy's. "Hmm, let's see," thinks Mark, "are there any good stories about Temple officials trying to enlist Roman cooperation in killing an inconvenient fellow Jew?" Yes, there was, as it happens. Good writers borrow; great writers steal. Jesus Ben Pantera, leader of the Essenes was stoned with his 5 disciples and hung on a gibbet but I don't remember Rome being involved. ?...or was it Jesus Ben Stada? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted January 31 #16 Share Posted January 31 52 minutes ago, Piney said: Jesus Ben Pantera, leader of the Essenes was stoned with his 5 disciples and hung on a gibbet but I don't remember Rome being involved. ?...or was it Jesus Ben Stada? Ben Pandera was stoned then hung on a tree on the Eve of Passover, Ben Stada was just crucified, Ben Gamala/Gamaliel was simply killed and thrown to the dogs and vultures. And of course Ben Ananias was crushed by a boulder. cormac 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight bits Posted February 1 #17 Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, Piney said: Jesus Ben Pantera, leader of the Essenes was stoned with his 5 disciples and hung on a gibbet but I don't remember Rome being involved. ?...or was it Jesus Ben Stada? Ben Stada and Ben Pantera are both Talmudic characters associated with sorcery and being stoned for it. Then apparently the Babylonian Talmud tried to unify them into one character (by proposing that Pantera was Jesus's biological father and Stada was Jesus's mother's husband). Regardless no Romans are involved in these men's deaths. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 1 #18 Share Posted February 1 So "jesus" wasn't a doormat. Just some crazy with really bad luck. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+razman Posted February 1 #19 Share Posted February 1 6 hours ago, Ell said: Was Christ a tortoise? This is a fun game. Next! Was Christ a gym shoe ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted February 1 #20 Share Posted February 1 49 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said: Ben Pandera was stoned then hung on a tree on the Eve of Passover, Ben Stada was just crucified, Ben Gamala/Gamaliel was simply killed and thrown to the dogs and vultures. And of course Ben Ananias was crushed by a boulder. cormac It sucks to be a Ben. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted February 1 #21 Share Posted February 1 Just now, Abramelin said: It sucks to be a Ben. Yeah, they often get hung up on something. cormac 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted February 1 #22 Share Posted February 1 Well....if the historic Jesus was Ben Ananias, Roman artillery made him a doormat. Case closed! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted February 1 #23 Share Posted February 1 That's sort of liking asking if MLK or Gandhi was a doormat. You don't have to be violent to be strong. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphalesion Posted February 1 #24 Share Posted February 1 33 minutes ago, spartan max2 said: That's sort of liking asking if MLK or Gandhi was a doormat. You don't have to be violent to be strong. Unfortunately modern society often mistakes gentleness or pacifism for weakness. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted February 1 #25 Share Posted February 1 51 minutes ago, Piney said: Well....if the historic Jesus was Ben Ananias, Roman artillery made him a doormat. Case closed! It was more like onion-skin paper. cormac 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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