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Why bury Gobekli Tepe and who did it?


The Puzzler

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https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-europe/monumental-cover-why-did-gobekli-tepe-end-dirt-008355

All those reasons are good.

Maybe it was buried by a new religion, new people coming in, getting rid of old ways, like cutting the oak groves down. 
Or was it by the builder culture themselves?

Hidden for posterity…a tell for what? 
A proper unexplained mystery.

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The Adena People had some sort of Wolf Cult or clan. They were later driven out of the Ohio Valley and their remains were found on the East Coast and Kentucky. Many remains were dug up and reinterred in the areas they reappeared and some skeletons like in the case of Ayers Mound, were smashed. They were gone during the Hopewell Horizon and replaced with bird and Ball Player motifs. 

Then there was a competition going on between a mushroom cult and peyote cult during the early period in the Southwest U.S. Peyote won.

Then we have the worship of Aten appearing in Egypt. Then being destroyed.

Some religions get too monolithic or lose control and are overturned. Some just die out. Anything could have happened.

 

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39 minutes ago, Piney said:

The Adena People had some sort of Wolf Cult or clan. They were later driven out of the Ohio Valley and their remains were found on the East Coast and Kentucky. Many remains were dug up and reinterred in the areas they reappeared and some skeletons like in the case of Ayers Mound, were smashed. They were gone during the Hopewell Horizon and replaced with bird and Ball Player motifs. 

Then there was a competition going on between a mushroom cult and peyote cult during the early period in the Southwest U.S. Peyote won.

Then we have the worship of Aten appearing in Egypt. Then being destroyed.

Some religions get too monolithic or lose control and are overturned. Some just die out. Anything could have happened.

 

Yes, anything could have happened…I wonder what exactly.

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47 minutes ago, Piney said:

The Adena People had some sort of Wolf Cult or clan. They were later driven out of the Ohio Valley and their remains were found on the East Coast and Kentucky. Many remains were dug up and reinterred in the areas they reappeared and some skeletons like in the case of Ayers Mound, were smashed. They were gone during the Hopewell Horizon and replaced with bird and Ball Player motifs. 

Then there was a competition going on between a mushroom cult and peyote cult during the early period in the Southwest U.S. Peyote won.

Then we have the worship of Aten appearing in Egypt. Then being destroyed.

Some religions get too monolithic or lose control and are overturned. Some just die out. Anything could have happened.

 

The worship of Aten is a good comparison. I wonder if this was a new “religion” that had even taken over a previous one, then been destroyed by the former believers.

I seem to think it may have been destroyed by others, rather than buried by the same people who built it. 

Being a tell though is also telling…it may have been built TO BE buried. A possible Hades of a kind.

Maybe there was a roof, the tell was constructed over it, but inside was a kind of labyrinth or sacred place, under the earth.

Questions, questions.

Edited by The Puzzler
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“Around the beginning of the 8th millennium BCE, Göbekli Tepe lost its importance. The advent of agriculture and animal husbandry brought new realities to human life in the area, and the "Stone-age zoo" (Schmidt's phrase applied particularly to Layer III, Enclosure D) apparently lost whatever significance it had had for the region's older, foraging communities. However, the complex was not simply abandoned and forgotten to be gradually destroyed by the elements. Instead, each enclosure was deliberately buried under as much as 300 to 500 cubic meters (390 to 650 cu yd) of refuse, creating a tell consisting mainly of small limestone fragments, stone vessels, and stone tools. Many animal and human bones have been identified in the fill.[63]The site was deliberately backfilled sometime after 8000 BCE: the buildings were buried under debris, mostly flint gravel, stone tools, and animal bones.[64] In addition to Byblos points (weapon heads, such as arrowheads etc.) and numerous Nemrikpoints, Helwan-points, and Aswad-points dominate the backfill's lithic inventory.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göbekli_Tepe

So, this above is the general accepted thought. Seems like it was used for at least 1600 years. So kinda strikes me as odd, the same culture who built it would bury it. Changes were afoot from hunter-gatherer psyche to Neolithic. 
 

Could a new Neolithic Revolution not only deemed it old hat, out-dated but deliberately ruined the ‘temples’ to stop the older, possibly seen as rudimentary and even a threat at that time, that the newer waves of farmers, around 8,000BC, after being left as is, since 9,600BC….?

As the religion of Gobekli Tepe kept for so long, or did a new religion over-ride and wipe out the older shamanic practices…?

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, SHaYap said:

Borobudur, Indonesia... and maybe Gunung Padang too... 

~

 

You never know.

Some good ideas here and mentions Ganung Padang too.

https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/95628-gobekli-tepe-why-was-it-built-and-then-buried/

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1 hour ago, The Puzzler said:

Starting at the start. Who was the culture that built it?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_A

I think too much is made out of this sensational theories of "suddenly disappeared" from the records in archeology, if it is looked at from a different perspective, maybe there was no sudden disappearance but the connection was just not where they were found. 

Much too under rated , this... 

Quote
Çatalhöyük is a tell of a very large Neolithic and Chalcolithic proto-city settlement in southern Anatolia, which existed from approximately 7500 BC to 6400 ...
Location: Küçükköy, Konya Province, Turkey
 
Founded: Approximately 7100 BC
 
Region: Anatolia
 
Periods: Neolithic to Chalcolithic

~

Whereas at gobekli, there were little  signs of human habitation, perhaps catalhuyuk were where the people were... 

~

 

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6 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-europe/monumental-cover-why-did-gobekli-tepe-end-dirt-008355

All those reasons are good.

Maybe it was buried by a new religion, new people coming in, getting rid of old ways, like cutting the oak groves down. 
Or was it by the builder culture themselves?

Hidden for posterity…a tell for what? 
A proper unexplained mystery.

The only ones claiming to have buried Göbekli Tepe are the Yezidi. They said their ancestors had buried it because it was 'evil' or something similar.

But that source I once found and posted about happened to be a novel. However: how much of that novel was based on facts?

Edited to add link:

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/353332-karahan-tepe-and-gobekli-tepe-are-just-adorned-bathing-pools/page/7/#comment-7394577

Edited by Abramelin
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1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

The only ones claiming to have buried Göbekli Tepe are the Yezidi. They said their ancestors had buried it because it was 'evil' or something similar.

But that source I once found and posted about happened to be a novel. However: how much of that novel was based on facts?

Edited to add link:

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/353332-karahan-tepe-and-gobekli-tepe-are-just-adorned-bathing-pools/page/7/#comment-7394577

The Yezidi are a "fringe group" of Zoroastrian Kurds influenced by Islam and Christianity who rewrote their own history making it look older. 

But they aren't a old religion. It was founded in the 12th Century. 

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6 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

The worship of Aten is a good comparison. I wonder if this was a new “religion” that had even taken over a previous one, then been destroyed by the former believers.

It was a new religion (basically "you worship me and I'll worship the deity (Aten) for you.")

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5 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Starting at the start. Who was the culture that built it?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_A

Interesting I view GT as a seperate culture to the hunter gatherers of the time. The amount of specialisation in construction and artwork hints at a surplus of food beyond hunting and semi agricultural practices. Skill sets that would require more than just accumulating and storing surpluses. There is strong evidence also of celestial alignment in the carved pillars. 
 

But back to your original question… Goblekli Tepe was buried more than once. Who’s to say. Only 5 percent of the site has been excavated. Bare in mind there are many similarities with other sites dotted across the region

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9 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

It was a new religion (basically "you worship me and I'll worship the deity (Aten) for you.")

Does it actually qualify as a religion though as IIRC the Aten was considered an aspect of Ra the sun god? Seems to me it was more along the lines of a failed attempt by the AE to do with the Aten what the Israelites  succeeded, more or less, to do with Yahweh, in both cases an attempt to make them more important than they originally were IMO. 

cormac

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24 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

Interesting I view GT as a seperate culture to the hunter gatherers of the time. The amount of specialisation in construction and artwork hints at a surplus of food beyond hunting and semi agricultural practices. Skill sets that would require more than just accumulating and storing surpluses. There is strong evidence also of celestial alignment in the carved pillars. 
 

But back to your original question… Goblekli Tepe was buried more than once. Who’s to say. Only 5 percent of the site has been excavated. Bare in mind there are many similarities with other sites dotted across the region

They were probably agroforesters and the game semi-domesticated in a park like environment. Similar to Mesolithic Britain and Eastern North America. Then became a actual leading clan or caste.

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1 minute ago, Piney said:

They were probably agroforesters and the game semi-domesticated in a park like environment. Similar to Mesolithic Britain and Eastern North America. Then became an actual leading clan or caste.

Oh might be right. Still it will take decades to fully excavate the site. Personally, I believe it was a permanent city of sorts and with all the early problems of a closed neighbourhood created frictions with the surrounding hunters and semi agriculturalists. Diseases, slave labour, conflicts etc the place was considered evil and buried. Surprisingly as far as I know there are no signs of destruction so maybe abandonment due to climatic or agricultural conditions also played a part. 

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10 minutes ago, Piney said:

They were probably agroforesters and the game semi-domesticated in a park like environment. Similar to Mesolithic Britain and Eastern North America. Then became a actual leading clan or caste.

Most people don’t realize things didn’t go from strictly hunter-gatherers to agricultural producers overnight, in between would be a pastoral/horticultural stage. Nothing happens in a vacuum. 
 

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt
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7 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Most people don’t realize things didn’t go from strictly hunter-gatherers to agricultural producers overnight, in between would be a pastoral/horticultural stage. Nothing happens in a vacuum. 
 

cormac

Correct! So theoretically there is more to this that hasn’t been found yet. Moving from small shelters made of sticks and mud for Hunter gatherers to building permanent structures, intricately carved and possibly aligned with star constellations isn’t something Ugg the Hunter is capable or willing to do

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1 hour ago, Piney said:

The Yezidi are a "fringe group" of Zoroastrian Kurds influenced by Islam and Christianity who rewrote their own history making it look older. 

But they aren't a old religion. It was founded in the 12th Century. 

You're quoting Muslims and Christians, their enemies.

 

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2 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

Does it actually qualify as a religion though as IIRC the Aten was considered an aspect of Ra the sun god? Seems to me it was more along the lines of a failed attempt by the AE to do with the Aten what the Israelites  succeeded, more or less, to do with Yahweh, in both cases an attempt to make them more important than they originally were IMO. 

cormac

Yes, it's a religion.  As Wepwauwet said, think of it as Arianism vs Protestant Evangelicism. 

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4 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Yes, it's a religion.  As Wepwauwet said, think of it as Arianism vs Protestant Evangelicism

I see Arianism as less a religion in its own right and more a failed denomination of Christianity. With Atenism while Akhenaten tried supplanting the old gods with the Aten he was never entirely successful, as evidenced by Tutankhamun’s reinstating the old gods. 
 

cormac

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2 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

I see Arianism as less a religion in its own right and more a failed denomination of Christianity. With Atenism while Akhenaten tried supplanting the old gods with the Aten he was never entirely successful, as evidenced by Tutankhamun’s reinstating the old gods. 
 

cormac

Tut probably didn't reinstate them directly - he was nine years old or thereabouts at the time of his ascension to the throne.  Very few nine year olds who have been raised in one religion suddenly declare an entirely different one as the official state religion.  The authors of that move are likely Horemheb and Ay.

Worship of the other deities never entirely went away under Akhenaten.  He did manage to make it appear as if it did by shutting temples (which didn't affect local and family worship) but the only place he could enforce it (and he did rather brutally) was in his capitol city of Amarna.

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1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

Tut probably didn't reinstate them directly - he was nine years old or thereabouts at the time of his ascension to the throne.  Very few nine year olds who have been raised in one religion suddenly declare an entirely different one as the official state religion.  The authors of that move are likely Horemheb and Ay.

Worship of the other deities never entirely went away under Akhenaten.  He did manage to make it appear as if it did by shutting temples (which didn't affect local and family worship) but the only place he could enforce it (and he did rather brutally) was in his capitol city of Amarna.

Directly or indirectly his name and his religious beliefs changed shortly after coming to the throne and he never changed them from that point on, which would have been his right, so I’m not sure how much it matters “how” responsible he was for same. As to Atenism the Aten existed before, during and for a short time after Tutankhamun’s name change so was really more a singular example of a change in monolatristic views, that didn’t end well for the Aten, than an actual change in religions IMO. 
 

cormac

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9 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

Interesting I view GT as a seperate culture to the hunter gatherers of the time. The amount of specialisation in construction and artwork hints at a surplus of food beyond hunting and semi agricultural practices. Skill sets that would require more than just accumulating and storing surpluses. There is strong evidence also of celestial alignment in the carved pillars. 
 

But back to your original question… Goblekli Tepe was buried more than once. Who’s to say. Only 5 percent of the site has been excavated. Bare in mind there are many similarities with other sites dotted across the region

Yes, I just realised (forgot) it had been buried previously, so it seems the culture who constructed it and used it buried it then.

National Geographic, Gobekli Tepe June 2011 says this:

”Every fewvdecades people buried the pillars and put up new stones - Then the whole assemblage would be filled in with debris, and an entirely new circle created nearby.” Also “When a new temple was completed, the old one was buried.”

So, the question really is then, WHY did they bury the old temples, and build a new one? 
Possibly because the stars were changing place and it was reliant on observation of stars and constellations?

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17 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Hidden for posterity…a tell for what? 
A proper unexplained mystery.

It may be that there was some threat to the site from outside, so they buried it to protect it from desecration.

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