The Puzzler Posted March 21, 2023 Author #1276 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) So, can we interpret this pillar, it has three animals on it….should be look at it as the top as the sky, middle is earth, lower is underworld…? How exactly do we interpret them? Lee Clare gives us a comparison to Little Red Riding Hood….OK. The people knew what the imagery meant he says, because it’s like a storyboard to them…. So, above we have the Bull, that’s easy, the Bull of Heaven… The fox….”Mythology tells that fox spirits are masters of the arts of metamorphosis, and can manifest in human form to seduce men or women. In exchange, they convey wealth and property.” How very human….middle section, Earthly attributes… The long legged bird with toes that seem to denote something….”The strix (plural striges or strixes), in the mythology of classical antiquity was a bird of ill omen, the product of metamorphosis, that fed on human flesh and blood. It also referred to witches and related malevolent folkloric beings.” But we have harpies, so many bird goddesses, the shaman of cave art with his bird head and staff…and an array of Underworld type birds, so interpreting the bird is a bit trickier. This pillar is giving us a picture of the three..Heaven, Earth and the Underworld. Edited March 21, 2023 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanos5150 Posted March 21, 2023 #1277 Share Posted March 21, 2023 12 hours ago, Kenemet said: "Since ancient times"??? Mulberries live no more than a few hundred years. The oldest (confirmed) one is about 500 years old. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethnal_Green_mulberry_tree#:~:text=Once established though%2C black mulberry,as being planted in 1548. So... "ancient times" is about 1600 AD? Seems like yesterday for Harte. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenemet Posted March 21, 2023 #1278 Share Posted March 21, 2023 12 hours ago, The Puzzler said: At Gobekli Tepe…the first round special buildings were built before the rectangular ones… Is it indicating the “temple” structures were not lived in…until the building of the rectangular ones. Im considering if the original structures were just sanctuaries/temples first. Before said habitation within the later rectangular buildings… The archaeologists would know. Humans are very messy when it comes to living spaces. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 21, 2023 Author #1279 Share Posted March 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, Kenemet said: The archaeologists would know. Humans are very messy when it comes to living spaces. Seemingly, but apparently not… ”All rooms were kept scrupulously clean.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Çatalhöyük Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenemet Posted March 21, 2023 #1280 Share Posted March 21, 2023 43 minutes ago, The Puzzler said: So, can we interpret this pillar, it has three animals on it….should be look at it as the top as the sky, middle is earth, lower is underworld…? How exactly do we interpret them? We don't. Not at our current level of research. There's a saying from Victorian times (found in Sherlock Holmes novels) "finding a button and sewing a vest on it." In other words, finding a brown button in the middle of nowhere with nobody around and deciding that the button came from a green paisley vest worn by a gentleman in his fifties who lost it on a Tuesday while shooting at grouse with his dog Molly. The button could have come from any vest or coat or cape or jacket and worn by a man or woman or child (or dropped from a package that someone bought) and could have been brought to the area by anyone (including a bird). And trying to mesh it with legends and stories from 3,000 - 7,000 years later (in the case of a Red Ridinghood tale) is like supposing you're going to find a button on the moor and it will be from a man who was shooting grouse on the land back on a Tuesday in 1840 and he was with a dog named Ted and a beater named Mike. 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 21, 2023 Author #1281 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Kenemet said: The archaeologists would know. Humans are very messy when it comes to living spaces. The archaeologist who knew was Klaus Schmidt and he said they were temples, before the rectangular buildings were discovered, so I’m going with the original round “special buildings”that were built before the domestic living quarters were built was nothing more than a sanctuary, temples if you may…”special buildings”….how woke can you get… Edited March 21, 2023 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 21, 2023 Author #1282 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Just now, Kenemet said: We don't. Not at our current level of research. There's a saying from Victorian times (found in Sherlock Holmes novels) "finding a button and sewing a vest on it." In other words, finding a brown button in the middle of nowhere with nobody around and deciding that the button came from a green paisley vest worn by a gentleman in his fifties who lost it on a Tuesday while shooting at grouse with his dog Molly. The button could have come from any vest or coat or cape or jacket and worn by a man or woman or child (or dropped from a package that someone bought) and could have been brought to the area by anyone (including a bird). And trying to mesh it with legends and stories from 3,000 - 7,000 years later (in the case of a Red Ridinghood tale) is like supposing you're going to find a button on the moor and it will be from a man who was shooting grouse on the land back on a Tuesday in 1840 and he was with a dog named Ted and a beater named Mike. Surely your mind wants to try and interpret it, or do we just sit there and go…well the boffins know better? Aren’t you inspired by the Michael Ventris..es of the day who had no experience in language, just passion, an architect, who spent his spare time deciphering Linear B….after he saw Arthur Evans once as a teenager…where’s the passion in it all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 21, 2023 Author #1283 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Kenemet said: We don't. Not at our current level of research. There's a saying from Victorian times (found in Sherlock Holmes novels) "finding a button and sewing a vest on it." In other words, finding a brown button in the middle of nowhere with nobody around and deciding that the button came from a green paisley vest worn by a gentleman in his fifties who lost it on a Tuesday while shooting at grouse with his dog Molly. The button could have come from any vest or coat or cape or jacket and worn by a man or woman or child (or dropped from a package that someone bought) and could have been brought to the area by anyone (including a bird). And trying to mesh it with legends and stories from 3,000 - 7,000 years later (in the case of a Red Ridinghood tale) is like supposing you're going to find a button on the moor and it will be from a man who was shooting grouse on the land back on a Tuesday in 1840 and he was with a dog named Ted and a beater named Mike. Lee Clare quoted the Little Red Riding Hood tale comparable to how they read the pillars. Edited March 21, 2023 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 21, 2023 Author #1284 Share Posted March 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Thanos5150 said: Seems like yesterday for Harte. Are u picking on us oldies, cause you know, I’ll report you….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 21, 2023 Author #1285 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) Who was the culture that off shoots the people of Gobekli Tepe? Do we have a name for them culturally, except the term hunter-gathers of the PPNA timeframe? Im thinking it’s the people who constructed Catalhoyuk… Which led to the Hatti, the Hurrians, the Hittites..,the Phrygians.,,,that’s the interesting point to me, as I know the Phrygians best. Paris’ mother was a Phrygian… The Anatolian Mother Goddess, the Tell of Troy and everything regarding it, Sanctuaries to Great Gods…Pelasgic Ionians, Phrygians, Etruscans, the whole place smells of ancient GT practices… The province of Konya, where Catalhoyuk is.. Interesting little tidbit on the flood… Edited March 21, 2023 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1200 Posted March 21, 2023 #1286 Share Posted March 21, 2023 56 minutes ago, Kenemet said: There's a saying from Victorian times (found in Sherlock Holmes novels) "finding a button and sewing a vest on it." In other words, finding a brown button in the middle of nowhere with nobody around and deciding that the button came from a green paisley vest worn by a gentleman in his fifties who lost it on a Tuesday while shooting at grouse with his dog Molly. The button could have come from any vest or coat or cape or jacket and worn by a man or woman or child (or dropped from a package that someone bought) and could have been brought to the area by anyone (including a bird). And trying to mesh it with legends and stories from 3,000 - 7,000 years later (in the case of a Red Ridinghood tale) is like supposing you're going to find a button on the moor and it will be from a man who was shooting grouse on the land back on a Tuesday in 1840 and he was with a dog named Ted and a beater named Mike. Was the dog's name Molly or Ted? Or were there two dogs? Details matter. Who first noticed he was missing a button? Did he beat the maid responsible for allowing his vest to deteriorate? Or was he a kindly soul who laughed it off? After all, it's just one button. Does anyone else see a deadly jellyfish at the bottom of this pillar? The most dangerous jellyfish are Australian, but according to experts Australia hadn't even been invented back then. So who taught the Göbekli Tepians about lethal deep-sea Medusozoans? Maybe they, like The Man From Atlantis, could breathe underwater? (This spookily ties in with Puzzler's declaration that the lowest image represents the underworld. Great minds really do think alike!) And in the middle the 'fox' and 'stork head' are actually an early Masonic compass symbol/ integrated bottle opener. Proof that rituals invented by bored Victorian gentlemen (when they weren’t out shooting grouse) are actually 11,000 years old. Dunno what that top thing is. Maybe a tunnelling machine leaking oil? A rhinoceros vomiting up a snake? Didn't Jesus tell a cautionary fable about the Rhino and the Serpent? Obvious parallels to the Garden Of Eden. OR AM I READING TOO MUCH INTO THIS, killjoy Kenemet? 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 21, 2023 Author #1287 Share Posted March 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, Tom1200 said: Was the dog's name Molly or Ted? Or were there two dogs? Details matter. Who first noticed he was missing a button? Did he beat the maid responsible for allowing his vest to deteriorate? Or was he a kindly soul who laughed it off? After all, it's just one button. Does anyone else see a deadly jellyfish at the bottom of this pillar? The most dangerous jellyfish are Australian, but according to experts Australia hadn't even been invented back then. So who taught the Göbekli Tepians about lethal deep-sea Medusozoans? Maybe they, like The Man From Atlantis, could breathe underwater? (This spookily ties in with Puzzler's declaration that the lowest image represents the underworld. Great minds really do think alike!) And in the middle the 'fox' and 'stork head' are actually an early Masonic compass symbol/ integrated bottle opener. Proof that rituals invented by bored Victorian gentlemen (when they weren’t out shooting grouse) are actually 11,000 years old. Dunno what that top thing is. Maybe a tunnelling machine leaking oil? A rhinoceros vomiting up a snake? Didn't Jesus tell a cautionary fable about the Rhino and the Serpent? Obvious parallels to the Garden Of Eden. OR AM I READING TOO MUCH INTO THIS, killjoy Kenemet? Now you’re getting it. Like, wtf is it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 21, 2023 Author #1288 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Let’s look at another pillar then, that Lee Clare has us believe is an interpretive story…. The Vulture Stone…a history of the Fall of Man? Or what? If we look at it sans my previous post it’s not 3D it’s 2D, the upper portion is the sky, the lower part is the Underworld… I don’t even know if the handbags are even “handbags”…the shape with uneven handles is all wrong….also next to them, not the animals next to the handbags, but surrounding it…some sort of possible grain fencing, some long footed birds again, a headless man, the fall of man, an interpretation of Nekhbet…? How about the references of the pillars lining up with Sirius or other celestial alignments….we’ve barely even started here tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atalante Posted March 21, 2023 #1289 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Puzzler said: Who was the culture that off shoots the people of Gobekli Tepe? Do we have a name for them culturally, except the term hunter-gathers of the PPNA timeframe? Im thinking it’s the people who constructed Catalhoyuk… Which led to the Hatti, the Hurrians, the Hittites..,the Phrygians.,,,that’s the interesting point to me, as I know the Phrygians best. Puzzler, Perhaps you have the dates of your paradigms confused. Most hunter-gatherers lived at population densities near 2 to 20 humans per square mile. Hunters, by walking inland in search of game, scared away too many wild animals (i.e. protein) to support human densities that were substantially higher than 20 humans per square mile. Larger population density, for hunter-gatherers, existed mostly near bodies of water where fish (protein) automatically repopulated the popular fishing grounds (for hunter-gatherers). Here is a Wikipedia map where the green area shows the outer bounds of PPN society ca 7500 BCE. In this map, you can see that Gobekli Tepe had been close to the middle of this 7500 BCE PPN territory. When I apply Occam's Razor, it seems most likely that PPN lifestyles ca 7500 BCE had diffused outward from some original Tas Tepler sites and Gobekli Tepe. Edited March 21, 2023 by atalante 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 21, 2023 Author #1290 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, atalante said: Puzzler, Perhaps you have the dates of your paradigms confused. Most hunter-gatherers lived at population densities near 2 to 20 humans per square mile. Hunters, by walking inland in search of game, scared away too many wild animals (i.e. protein) to support human densities that were substantially higher than 20 humans per square mile. Larger population density, for hunter-gatherers, existed mostly near bodies of water where fish (protein) automatically repopulated the popular fishing grounds (for hunter-gatherers). Here is a Wikipedia map where the green area shows the outer bounds of PPN society ca 7500 BCE. In this map, you can see that Gobekli Tepe had been close to the middle of this 7500 BCE PPN territory. When I apply Occam's Razor, it seems most likely that PPN lifestyles ca 7500 BCE had diffused outward from some original Tas Tepler sites and Gobekli Tepe. I don’t think I have my paradigms confused and I’ve seen this map a hundred times….but thanks, more food for thought Edited March 21, 2023 by The Puzzler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 21, 2023 Author #1291 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) ~ Edited March 21, 2023 by The Puzzler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenemet Posted March 21, 2023 #1292 Share Posted March 21, 2023 3 hours ago, The Puzzler said: Seemingly, but apparently not… ”All rooms were kept scrupulously clean.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Çatalhöyük So probably not long-term living areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenemet Posted March 21, 2023 #1293 Share Posted March 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Tom1200 said: Was the dog's name Molly or Ted? Or were there two dogs? Details matter. Who first noticed he was missing a button? Did he beat the maid responsible for allowing his vest to deteriorate? Or was he a kindly soul who laughed it off? After all, it's just one button. Does anyone else see a deadly jellyfish at the bottom of this pillar? The most dangerous jellyfish are Australian, but according to experts Australia hadn't even been invented back then. So who taught the Göbekli Tepians about lethal deep-sea Medusozoans? Maybe they, like The Man From Atlantis, could breathe underwater? (This spookily ties in with Puzzler's declaration that the lowest image represents the underworld. Great minds really do think alike!) And in the middle the 'fox' and 'stork head' are actually an early Masonic compass symbol/ integrated bottle opener. Proof that rituals invented by bored Victorian gentlemen (when they weren’t out shooting grouse) are actually 11,000 years old. Dunno what that top thing is. Maybe a tunnelling machine leaking oil? A rhinoceros vomiting up a snake? Didn't Jesus tell a cautionary fable about the Rhino and the Serpent? Obvious parallels to the Garden Of Eden. OR AM I READING TOO MUCH INTO THIS, killjoy Kenemet? I don't know where you got the weed you've been smoking, man, but don't bogart hat joint. I want a toke. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 21, 2023 Author #1294 Share Posted March 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Kenemet said: So probably not long-term living areas. Apparently they may have been used for just part of the year…as Hunter gatherers would I guess…for hunting the gazelle… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenemet Posted March 21, 2023 #1295 Share Posted March 21, 2023 1 hour ago, The Puzzler said: Now you’re getting it. Like, wtf is it? He was being playful in his response. He agreed with me that you can't interpret something from a very distant-in-time culture using recent material. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenemet Posted March 21, 2023 #1296 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Just now, The Puzzler said: Apparently they may have been used for just part of the year…as Hunter gatherers would I guess…for hunting the gazelle… Although it's interesting that the area was kept very clean. That's not typical for human living areas. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Puzzler Posted March 21, 2023 Author #1297 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Kenemet said: He was being playful in his response. He agreed with me that you can't interpret something from a very distant-in-time culture using recent material. I know, I laughed….I get the sarcastic humour, actually I’m still wiping the laugh tears from my eyes…Piney concluded, in a nice genetic way….I’m on the spectrum…The Puzzler= I get very frustrated when I can’t solve the puzzles (and I was serious, wtf is it? Does anyone have an iota of an answer) or should I wait for Clare et al to solve it for us…but I always get the joke…. Edited March 21, 2023 by The Puzzler 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docyabut2 Posted March 21, 2023 #1298 Share Posted March 21, 2023 What does this carving mean ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenemet Posted March 21, 2023 #1299 Share Posted March 21, 2023 35 minutes ago, The Puzzler said: I know, I laughed….I get the sarcastic humour, actually I’m still wiping the laugh tears from my eyes…Piney concluded, in a nice genetic way….I’m on the spectrum…The Puzzler= I get very frustrated when I can’t solve the puzzles (and I was serious, wtf is it? Does anyone have an iota of an answer) or should I wait for Clare et al to solve it for us…but I always get the joke…. But you can't solve a puzzle if you've got only 10 pieces out of 200. You can't even tell what's going on. Five percent (according to one website) is all that's been uncovered of what's there. That's 10 pieces of a 200 piece puzzle (and the pieces are all from one area.) 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanos5150 Posted March 21, 2023 #1300 Share Posted March 21, 2023 3 hours ago, The Puzzler said: Are u picking on us oldies, cause you know, I’ll report you….. Too late. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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