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Finish the job our Founders started!


RavenHawk

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56 minutes ago, Katniss said:

Isn't it amazing when politicians become transparent and actually tell you what is on their mind?

True of course, but politicians are only part.  It is a view the right likes to promote to screen their benefactors.   International corporations have a lot of control over our daily lives.  The elite  run the show through donations to both parties.  Whether its Glen Beck, Elon Musk, or Mobil oil, they all want to convince us that they are the heroes and have our best interests in mind. BS. A few politicians rely on small sum donations, but quite a few more take as much as they can get from anybody.

Wanna look at an example of countries with the Rick Scott System: where the poor and middle class pay most of the taxes and the wealthy skate?  Plenty of examples.  Countries  in Africa, the  Middle East, and Southern Asia.

Poor economies, minimal infrastructure, pot holes in all the major roads, electricity blackouts, no safe water systems.  Plenty of rich people though, they live with body guards in gated communities and spend all of the time they can somewhere else like Europe. But the poor are personally responsible, no safety net for them.  They may be hard working and ingenious, but their children still die of preventable causes.

That is not what I believe the founding fathers envisioned, a plutocracy replacing the monarchy and the citizens still carrying the load on their shoulders.

The only tyrannical government that Glen Beck would encourage his followers to overthrow is the one that asks him to pay more for what he gets back.

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8 hours ago, Myles said:

Never even thought about using my guns to commit violent crimes. 

LOL, well when you can't afford Health Insurance and then get railroaded into an ambulance when you get injured and wind up with a $US 250,000 surgery bill, bank robbery begins to seem like a very plausible option I am told.

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4 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

 bank robbery begins to seem like a very plausible option I am told.

Username checks out. 

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4 minutes ago, HandsomeGorilla said:

Username checks out. 

Actually in this day and age I should be involved in breaking the present prohibition on illegal pharmaceuticals.  Bank robbing is so "Depression Era Gangster" if you take my drift.  Dillinger I ain't.

Edited by Alchopwn
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On 2/9/2023 at 8:04 PM, RavenHawk said:

The following is a worthy source

define 'worthy source'

your definition will be your opinion/ how you perceive what you're told & how you personally feel about the person telling it- worthy only to the individual 

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7 hours ago, Katniss said:

Isn't it amazing when politicians become transparent and actually tell you what is on their mind?

shouldn't this be a statement rather than a question?

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19 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Its just nothing new.

What I thought was effective about Bidens state of the union speech was that it had a lot of specific examples. 

It wasn't just "we did an infrastructure bill" it was our infrastructure bill is building a chip facility in Columbus Ohio and rebuilding the bridge in Kentucky were billions of freight through each year. 
 

A chip facility and a bridge hu? Oh joy. That takes the sting out of the hundreds of billions going to China for solar panels and windmills. Guess they don’t call him Beijing Biden for nothing. 

19 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

It wasn't just " we are making healthcare cheaper"  it was we made it so medicare can negotiate prescription drug prices and that capped medicare insulin cost at 35 a month.

Great, and if he didn’t undo what Trump did, everyone could have benefited. Not just those on Medicare. 

19 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Not just "we are bringing blue collar jobs back." Its we are requiring all federal funded projects to be made with materials made in the US (I think protectionism is dumb.)

For me what stood out most was what wasn’t said. Like an explanation on why he sabotaged the petro dollar. Effectively removing our currency as the worlds reserve. Just wait till that little blunder plays out. Or how we never heard the word peace. Why we haven’t once even tried to help resolve the Russia Ukraine conflict by anything but proxy. Or why he lied about about destroying the pipeline that supplied Eastern Europe with cheap natural gas. Striking a serious blow to not only their economy, but their survival. And you guys got mad at Trump for making Europe fulfill NATO obligations. Yet no one bats an eye when this clown shuts down their means of living. 
 

NTM several alphabet agencies now just making up their own laws completely circumventing the constitution and due process of law.  Here’s a fun one. The SEC is now going after crypto staking. Goldman Gary Gensler decided he needed to protect retail investors from getting high interest rates in return for basically loaning out their crypto to the platforms they keep their crypto on. Eliminating the banks competition. Oh and it gets better. No more staking in the US, accept through Ethereum. Picking winners and losers in the space. This is the second time Ethereum has gotten a free pass, while others got hit with lawsuits. This is massive corruption right out in the open. So much for an even playing field. 

19 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Becks thing seems to be a lot more of just platitudes and generalizations. Of like they are coming for your guns. 

If ya didn’t read it you could have just said it wasn’t worth your time. Cause if you did read it, and that’s all you took away from it, well that’s odd to say the least. 

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53 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

A chip facility and a bridge hu? Oh joy. That takes the sting out of the hundreds of billions going to China for solar panels and windmills. Guess they don’t call him Beijing Biden for nothing. 

Great, and if he didn’t undo what Trump did, everyone could have benefited. Not just those on Medicare. 

For me what stood out most was what wasn’t said. Like an explanation on why he sabotaged the petro dollar. Effectively removing our currency as the worlds reserve. Just wait till that little blunder plays out. Or how we never heard the word peace. Why we haven’t once even tried to help resolve the Russia Ukraine conflict by anything but proxy. Or why he lied about about destroying the pipeline that supplied Eastern Europe with cheap natural gas. Striking a serious blow to not only their economy, but their survival. And you guys got mad at Trump for making Europe fulfill NATO obligations. Yet no one bats an eye when this clown shuts down their means of living. 
 

NTM several alphabet agencies now just making up their own laws completely circumventing the constitution and due process of law.  Here’s a fun one. The SEC is now going after crypto staking. Goldman Gary Gensler decided he needed to protect retail investors from getting high interest rates in return for basically loaning out their crypto to the platforms they keep their crypto on. Eliminating the banks competition. Oh and it gets better. No more staking in the US, accept through Ethereum. Picking winners and losers in the space. This is the second time Ethereum has gotten a free pass, while others got hit with lawsuits. This is massive corruption right out in the open. So much for an even playing field. 

If ya didn’t read it you could have just said it wasn’t worth your time. Cause if you did read it, and that’s all you took away from it, well that’s odd to say the least. 

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16 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Socialism and do nothing are not the only two options.

Amen to that. 

16 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Personal responsibility has nothing to do with our tax code.  Our tax code was not carved in stone by a prophet of God. It was written with the help of lobbyists to specifically  favor the elite and large corporations.   
 

No argument here. Corruption needs to be ripped out of this government root and stem. Problem is the rot is so deep at this point we would pretty much have to start over completely. Our right to abolish wouldn’t be met with open arms though. 
 

I gotta say, the answer isn’t making folks pay more taxes. Especially considering it would only incentivize them to spend even more and still continue to bury us in debt. We need to stop wasting money. Which we do, massive amounts. Several warehouses full in fact. I’d stop paying taxes altogether at this point if it were possible. It all just gets thrown into a black hole. 

16 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

The middle class is slipping down the ladder. If you are old enough, you remember that to support a middle class life style, only your dad worked and your mom stayed at home.  If you have kids, you know they will have a hard time buying a house or starting a family. The average American is losing ground, and  the elites and global corporations are doing better than ever.

All very true. Try to correct the things that made that possible, like American manufacturing, and somehow that makes you a bad guy. Try to make actual fair trade agreements to stop the bleeding of our currency out of the country and our Chinese and corporate owned media calls you a tyrant. 

16 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Back to personal responsibility:  a young responsible couple will not have a child because they cannot afford it, not because abortion is available.    
 

Statistically there are three things a person has to do to begin to lift themselves out of poverty. Graduate high school. Don’t have a child out of wedlock. And don’t commit crimes. There is no reason a young, key word responsible couple can’t afford to have a child. My 17 year old son was born back when neither myself or my wife entered our full economic potential. Sure we struggled, but I wouldn’t take it back for anything. 
 

Regardless of how corrupt the system is, personal responsibility, making good choices is key to personal gain. It’s always been that way, and there is no way around it.  

16 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Glen Beck is an elitist who has his own interests as his primary concern.   He is trying to convince people in the middle to kick down  at those below them and continue to pass money up the ladder to his level as quickly as they can.

I’m not a Glen Beck fan. Not by a long shot. The little I’ve seen of him though, from way back when, that isn’t true at all. Heck in 08 he was one of very few that was trying to expose government waste, way over spending, and corporate influence in it all. 

16 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

President Lyndon B. Johnson once said, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

That crap may have swung in Johnson’s day, but there are very few people today who believe that. I couldn’t even imagine anyone I’ve ever known thinking they are better than the best black man. In the last 20 years several black billionaires have be created. 

16 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

In this instance, it has nothing to do with racism, but the very same principle is true for income and social level. 

I don’t think social class has anything to do with it. People don’t care that they are being robbed because they know they are powerless to stop it. Or worse, they are convinced it’s necessary. The idea isn’t completely off though. Now it’s politically ideology that cause people to look down on others. Divide and conquer. 

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4 minutes ago, Myles said:

I tried watching it but couldn't take the lies.  

 “Take-home pay has gone up.”-   Maybe if you ignore the inflation that is gauging everyone when they buy items they need.  - Lie

“We have created a record 12 million new jobs.” - He is misrepresenting the truth in his claims.  Most of the jobs were post pandemic jobs that returned.  - Lie

 “[I have presided over] the largest deficit reduction in American history.” - Another post pandemic misrepresentation.  Actually he has presided over the largest 2 year deficit in history.  - Lie

“Now, thanks to all we’ve done, we’re exporting American products.” - The same day as the State of the Union address, the government released 2022 trade figures showing the country hit a record trade deficit of almost $1 trillion last year. That’s up 12.2 percent compared to 2021, precisely the opposite direction of Biden’s claim. - Yet another Lie

 

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30 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

 

 

Statistically there are three things a person has to do to begin to lift themselves out of poverty. Graduate high school. Don’t have a child out of wedlock. And don’t commit crimes. There is no reason a young, key word responsible couple can’t afford to have a child. My 17 year old son was born back when neither myself or my wife entered our full economic potential. Sure we struggled, but I wouldn’t take it back for anything. 
 

Regardless of how corrupt the system is, personal responsibility, making good choices is key to personal gain. It’s always been that way, and there is no way around it.  

I’m not a Glen Beck fan. Not by a long shot. The little I’ve seen of him though, from way back when, that isn’t true at all. Heck in 08 he was one of very few that was trying to expose government waste, way over spending, and corporate influence in it all. 

That crap may have swung in Johnson’s day, but there are very few people today who believe that. I couldn’t even imagine anyone I’ve ever known thinking they are better than the best black man. In the last 20 years several black billionaires have be created. 

I don’t think social class has anything to do with it. People don’t care that they are being robbed because they know they are powerless to stop it. Or worse, they are convinced it’s necessary. The idea isn’t completely off though. Now it’s politically ideology that cause people to look down on others. Divide and conquer. 

To the bolded:

1 - Do those 3 things and most people will not be in poverty.  Responsible people can and do afford to have children.  Being responsible includes being thrifty with your spending.  

2 - Well said.  

3 - I cannot recall ever listening to Glen Beck.  He must be good at his job (shock jock).  I never listened to Rush either but he was another who was good at his job.   They both have made allot of money by spouting whatever enrages people.  There are many of the left who do the same thing.

4 - I agree.  I do not know anyone who would feel that way. 

5 -  Yes and no.  I think people with more will look down at at others to a degree.  I believe I do when I drive by a local trailer park that is full of old trailers and trash all over.  I definitely look down on the people living like that.  Not really because they are poor, but because of how they accept living like slobs and their spending habits.  Satellite dish on the roof is telling.   Over the air channels are readily available we I live.  I know they are paying at least $75 a month to pay for TV.  Irresponsible if you are living in squalor.   Being poor doesn't mean you have to just throw trash all over the yard.  I look down at poor people who have several children.  Irresponsible.   I guess "self inflicted" poor social status is what I look down on.

Edited by Myles
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8 minutes ago, Myles said:

 

5 -  Yes and no.  I think people with more will look down at at others to a degree.  I believe I do when I drive by a local trailer park that is full of old trailers and trash all over.  I definitely look down on the people living like that.  Not really because they are poor, but because of how they accept living like slobs and their spending habits.  Satellite dish on the roof is telling.   Over the air channels are readily available we I live.  I know they are paying at least $75 a month to pay for TV.  Irresponsible if you are living in squalor.   Being poor doesn't mean you have to just throw trash all over the yard.  I look down at poor people who have several children.  Irresponsible.   I guess "self inflicted" poor social status is what I look down on.

Oh definitely, people certainly look down on other social classes. My point was it’s not a distraction from knowing you yourself is being robbed by government. 

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2 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Great, and if he didn’t undo what Trump did, everyone could have benefited. Not just those on Medicare.

What are you referring to?

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31 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

What are you referring to?

Ok so I didn’t get that 100% right. Was going from memory. But Trump lowered the cost for Medicare and Medicaid patients, and the first day Biden was in he removed it. 
 

https://www.policymed.com/amp/2021/10/biden-administration-rescinds-trump-administration-insulin-pricing-rule.html

 

I believe he was also in the process of lowering costs on insulin for everyone who needs it. I gotta look it up. It’s hard to find anything good that Trump did on google though. 

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8 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Ok so I didn’t get that 100% right. Was going from memory. But Trump lowered the cost for Medicare and Medicaid patients, and the first day Biden was in he removed it. 
 

https://www.policymed.com/amp/2021/10/biden-administration-rescinds-trump-administration-insulin-pricing-rule.html

 

I believe he was also in the process of lowering costs on insulin for everyone who needs it. I gotta look it up. It’s hard to find anything good that Trump did on google though. 

 As far as I can make out the idea was to give grant money to specific health centers so that they give those at or below 350% of the federal poverty line insulin and related equipment for the "340B" drug pricing.

Quote

Provisions in the Final Rule that are now rescinded include the following:

 

Providers that are covered entities under the 340B Drug Pricing Program and that seek funding under Section 330(e) of the Public Health Service Act would have needed to offer insulin and injectable epinephrine to its patients to qualify for the grants.

FQHC patients with incomes at or below 350% of the federal poverty level and with either: insurance with a high cost-sharing requirement for insulin or injectable epinephrine, a high unmet deductible, or no health insurance, would have been able to purchase drugs at 340B prices plus a “minimal administration fee.” In order to qualify for 340B pricing, the patients would have been required to receive services from health centers other than just the dispensing of the drugs.

The “minimal administration fee” included in the Final Rule would have been expected to include any dispensing fee, counseling costs, or other charges associated with the patient receiving the medication. HHS noted in the rescission that such fees should not create a barrier to low-income patients and that health centers would have needed to make “every reasonable effort” to keep those fees as low as possible.

An attempt was made for sure. So credit for that. Not sure if it's the best policy really. 

I think a solution which neither of them have done yet/did. Would be to let Medicaid do the same as they did for Medicare. Negotiate drug prices and cap insulin cost.

Edited by spartan max2
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12 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

LOL, well when you can't afford Health Insurance and then get railroaded into an ambulance when you get injured and wind up with a $US 250,000 surgery bill, bank robbery begins to seem like a very plausible option I am told.

LOL?   That isn't funny.   People loose a lot because of medical bills that insurance won't pay or because they can't afford insurance.  There is only one hospital in the state I live in that will take patients who have no insurance, and they are the only ones that will set up a payment plan when you can't pay the whole amount.   So, yeah it makes sense that someone might think of robbing  a bank.  Myself, I would find where the insurance companies keep their money and rob that bank.

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3 hours ago, Myles said:

 “Take-home pay has gone up.”-   Maybe if you ignore the inflation that is gauging everyone when they buy items they need.  - Lie.   

  How is it a lie if Take-home pay is indeed up.  Inflation is not take home pay.

 

“We have created a record 12 million new jobs.” - He is misrepresenting the truth in his claims.  Most of the jobs were post pandemic jobs that returned.  - Lie

Unemployment hasn't been this low since Nixon (which had no pandemic)

My Republican governor even admits that if everyone on unemployment in Iowa got jobs we would still have a shortage of 70,000 people so she wants to loosed the child labor laws to get children to work.

 

“[I have presided over] the largest deficit reduction in American history.” - Another post pandemic misrepresentation.  Actually he has presided over the largest 2 year deficit in history.  - Lie

This one you are correct about the pandemic but incorrect about the being the largest.  Trump spent so much money (25% of the total deficit coming from him alone) that returning to normal levels gets Biden the title of largest deficit cut in history.  But Trump holds the title for highest deficit increase.

 

“Now, thanks to all we’ve done, we’re exporting American products.” - The same day as the State of the Union address, the government released 2022 trade figures showing the country hit a record trade deficit of almost $1 trillion last year. That’s up 12.2 percent compared to 2021, precisely the opposite direction of Biden’s claim. - Yet another Lie

We are exporting products.  The Chinese Spy Balloon even has American parts.  How is this a lie?

He doesn't talk about the trade deficit at all.  (Honestly, I don't blame him for that but rather the American people for buying made in China stuff.)  

 

 

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On 2/11/2023 at 9:10 AM, Tatetopa said:

True of course, but politicians are only part.  It is a view the right likes to promote to screen their benefactors.   International corporations have a lot of control over our daily lives.  The elite  run the show through donations to both parties.  Whether its Glen Beck, Elon Musk, or Mobil oil, they all want to convince us that they are the heroes and have our best interests in mind. BS. A few politicians rely on small sum donations, but quite a few more take as much as they can get from anybody.

Agreed Tatetopa.  The US system of Political Action Committees is how things are done these days but an honest person would have to conclude that this is a straight up system of institutionalized corporate bribery.  The USA is a Corporate Republic, not a democracy.  It is a democracy for one day once every 2 years at best, and even that is up for grabs.  The USA could really afford to look to Europe and especially Scandinavia for some inspiration as to how to curb the worst excesses of our elites.

On 2/11/2023 at 9:10 AM, Tatetopa said:

Wanna look at an example of countries with the Rick Scott System: where the poor and middle class pay most of the taxes and the wealthy skate?  Plenty of examples.  Countries  in Africa, the  Middle East, and Southern Asia.

Trust me when I say that the US system is so biased in favor of the rich that most US citizens are barely able to comprehend how little of the slice of the pie they actually get.  The USA has an aristocracy that has everything but the titles.  Given who the Founding Fathers actually were (i.e. Educated White Anglo-Saxon Protestant gentlemen with extensive land holdings and industries), this is , however, pretty much what they envisaged imo.  The system has definitely worked in my personal favor, but I am concerned that it is becoming too rapacious.

On 2/11/2023 at 9:10 AM, Tatetopa said:

Poor economies, minimal infrastructure, pot holes in all the major roads, electricity blackouts, no safe water systems.  Plenty of rich people though, they live with body guards in gated communities and spend all of the time they can somewhere else like Europe. But the poor are personally responsible, no safety net for them.  They may be hard working and ingenious, but their children still die of preventable causes.

There are parts of the USA that are appalling.  West Virginia, Kentucky, and Indiana, spring to mind.  Horror stories abound in each.   Being in a gated community is no guarantee that you won't get electricity failures, or that other infrastructure won't fail outside the community.  I could wax lyrical about how this is due to the legal misinterpretation of what a corporation was originally brought into being for, but I won't bore you with pedantic legalisms.  The simple fact is, the USA is one of the few societies that will happily tolerate ghost towns, and the centralization of capital into the major cities and the drain on Rural USA has taken an unreasonable toll on the country.  The GOP is strong in Rural areas, but ignores them every bit as much as the Dems imo.  Agricorps seem intent on driving all smallholders off the land and controlling all food supply.  Walmart has ruined countless small town economies.  Small town USA is in a dire state, and that includes regional cities.  I took a road trip to Area 51 some years ago, and we aren't doing well when compared to Europe.  I worry that we Americans don't like or care about each other nearly as much as we should, and it will kill our country in the longer term if we aren't careful.

On 2/11/2023 at 9:10 AM, Tatetopa said:

That is not what I believe the founding fathers envisioned, a plutocracy replacing the monarchy and the citizens still carrying the load on their shoulders.

Don't make the Founding Fathers out to be better men than they were Tatetopa.  I think plutocracy is exactly what they envisaged, and an uncritical acceptance of the Market Mechanism has made the USA the most powerful country in the world.

On 2/11/2023 at 9:10 AM, Tatetopa said:

The only tyrannical government that Glen Beck would encourage his followers to overthrow is the one that asks him to pay more for what he gets back.

The sad fact is imo, that Beck and his ilk are fascists.  Every republic runs risks of this sort.  Rome was a republic and it invented fascism, and then it fought a civil war became an Empire.  Every Republic is endangered when any of its citizens become too rich, and transform into aristocrats whose personal wealth can compromise the fair exercise of the Republic's representative body's responsibilities.  While the USA has plenty of checks and balances to manage the threat of far left and far right demagogues from seizing and exercising extremist power in the name of their extremist politics, if the system becomes too flooded with them, it will fail.  Then there will be US Civil War 2, and a Second American Republic may even emerge from the ashes of millions of crushed American corpses.  The only people who can destroy the USA are we the people, and sometimes I fear we just might.

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56 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

The USA could really afford to look to Europe and especially Scandinavia for some inspiration as to how to curb the worst excesses of our elites.

Excellent post, it contains some pithy insights into the nature of our government, society, and  either ignorance or ambivalence to what happens day by day. I am not sure even many of the elites have remembered that the pilot dies too when the airliner crashes into the mountain.  No doubt they  have parachutes or escape pods in mind, but a lot can go wrong when an economy craters.   Some are afraid a global cabal controls our society, I am afraid nobody knows what they are doing.

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4 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Some are afraid a global cabal controls our society, I am afraid nobody knows what they are doing.

Now there's a pithy comment that's full of insight if I ever saw one.  Nice one Tatetopa!  All those goddamn conspiracy theorists out there are so very certain that there is a shadowy crew behind everything, but I will give unreasonably good odds that you are correct.

I have seen older children play a video game where a younger child also has a game paddle and the younger kid is tapping away at the paddle convinced they are playing too, but they aren't.  To complete the analogy I think the alleged global cabals' control panels are providing an illusion of control.  I think the paddles are on the fritz because there are limits on what humanity knows and can predict with our present understanding.  Sometimes the paddle works, and sometimes it doesn't and the "people in control" rationalize the outcomes just as much as the conspiracy theorists.  Control in such cases is pure confirmation bias a good deal of the time, perhaps as much as 60% of the time.

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11 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Excellent post, it contains some pithy insights into the nature of our government, society, and  either ignorance or ambivalence to what happens day by day. I am not sure even many of the elites have remembered that the pilot dies too when the airliner crashes into the mountain.  No doubt they  have parachutes or escape pods in mind, but a lot can go wrong when an economy craters.   Some are afraid a global cabal controls our society, I am afraid nobody knows what they are doing.

I don’t see how Europe is any better off at all. They just rob you in different ways. 
 

https://www.thebalancemoney.com/how-us-taxes-compare-with-other-countries-4165500

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7 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Now there's a pithy comment that's full of insight if I ever saw one.  Nice one Tatetopa!  All those goddamn conspiracy theorists out there are so very certain that there is a shadowy crew behind everything, but I will give unreasonably good odds that you are correct.

I have seen older children play a video game where a younger child also has a game paddle and the younger kid is tapping away at the paddle convinced they are playing too, but they aren't.  To complete the analogy I think the alleged global cabals' control panels are providing an illusion of control.  I think the paddles are on the fritz because there are limits on what humanity knows and can predict with our present understanding.  Sometimes the paddle works, and sometimes it doesn't and the "people in control" rationalize the outcomes just as much as the conspiracy theorists.  Control in such cases is pure confirmation bias a good deal of the time, perhaps as much as 60% of the time.

You can usually tell who is in  control by following the money.  Who profits, that's who is behind what ever and it changes every day.  We are just the pawns in a crazy game that has no rules.   And what you say is right, the paddles don't always work, and that is evident when you notice a new guy like Bill Gates 40 years ago, or Elon Musk 20 years ago, or the wanabes like Mark Zuckerberg, and then there are old players like Jeff Bezos who got away with  no copetition for years and suddenly finds himself competing with Google.   And none of it has anything to do with any secret government.   They don't care about countries, they care about money.

Edited by Desertrat56
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43 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

I don’t see how Europe is any better off at all. They just rob you in different ways. 
 

https://www.thebalancemoney.com/how-us-taxes-compare-with-other-countries-4165500

Sometimes, it is not the price you pay but the  value you get in return that is the difference between a bargain and a rip-off. 

I might even be happy to pay my taxes if I didn't pay more for prescription drugs than any other country in the world, and if my love of children was reflected in national policy to reduce infant and maternal mortality, and my own lifespan was being extended and not reduced. I would probably grumble less if public schools were so good that millionaires sent their children there and our young people were given what they needed to compete in the world.  I might feel better about it if I felt safe in my own country.  I could even enjoy life a bit more if my government was judged on how much they lived up to their promises and how little they depended on fear to remain in power.

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9 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

You can usually tell who is in  control by following the money.  Who profits, that's who is behind what ever and it changes every day.  We are just the pawns in a crazy game that has no rules.   And what you say is right, the paddles don't always work, and that is evident when you notice a new guy like Bill Gates 40 years ago, or Elon Musk 20 years ago, or the wannabes like Mark Zuckerberg, and then there are old players like Jeff Bezos who got away with  no competition for years and suddenly finds himself competing with Google.   And none of it has anything to do with any secret government.   They don't care about countries, they care about money.

You are on the money Desertrat56, and I agree with nearly everything you wrote here.  The only thing I disagree with is the bit about the game having no rules.  There are 2 sets of rules imo (1) The natural tendencies of the Universe which we describe with Physics and Chemistry etc. and (2) the behaviors of living things, including humans and human nature.

One of the interesting things about this world is that we are born into it not knowing what the rules are.  Over generations we have discovered them, but come to different answers in different areas of the planet when it comes to the behavior of living things.  Science is the more amazing part however, as after millions of years we are now making the physical universe wildly predictable thru mathematical modelling, which is incredible.  What a time to be alive.  So much is known and yet there is still so much to be discovered.  It just makes you wanna roll up your sleeves and get a PhD in the hard sciences I tell you.

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