What's the matter with Portland?

[WVK]

 

If you want to understand the schism that dominates the political and social landscape in this famously liberal city, a walk down Southeast Rhine Street might be a good place to start.

Flora Gonzalez, who lives on the north side of the street, is distressed about conditions in the historically blue-collar neighborhood.

The 40-year-old package handler for FedEx said that people have openly dealt drugs and urinated on the sidewalk outside her family’s duplex. They've dumped feces and used syringes in her manicured yard, played booming music at 3 a.m. and stripped stolen cars for parts. Shots have been fired behind her children’s bedroom.

“We feel abandoned,” Gonzalez said. “We pay our taxes and the police are not watching over our security.”

But Juniper Simonis, who rents a home across the street, said she opposed calls for police clampdowns.

The 38-year-old environmental biologist and data scientist, whose frontyard features a handmade “DISARM, DEFUND, DISMANTLE POLICE” sign, said Portland officials continued to fail the homeless by underfunding services and “sweeping” camps with callous disregard for people’s dignity and property.

https://www.aol.com/news/whats-matter-portland-shootings-theft-110015456.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kcnVkZ2VyZXBvcnQuY29tLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGI6gbxj2Aw7H_P2bbLtf-uzpYL72TIlVg82rovIBgpn7iHrJQnb_GtoxPr-XjoSsqZfw05jEkaoH-utEPYBwcKixh1OxZCj_nFnFi12ZCXq5_kqgoVS_QVDjkRJF2yh4XAKQqCBVbRtUwhxqox_9fIXcv_nFRWnebyab_FZ7Gv1

[+and-then]

What's wrong?  The citizenry chose to elect Liberals for decades and they finally got what they voted for, on steroids.  They - as a group - have voted for the suicide of their own communities.  They may as well learn to love Big Brother, or to look elsewhere for a better life.  None of these blue cesspools will get better.

[+joc]

36 minutes ago, and-then said:

What's wrong?  The citizenry chose to elect Liberals for decades and they finally got what they voted for, on steroids.  They - as a group - have voted for the suicide of their own communities.  They may as well learn to love Big Brother, or to look elsewhere for a better life.  None of these blue cesspools will get better.

Okay...none of that is what is wrong with Portland....

Here...

...is what is wrong with Portland...it isn't a matter of IF...it is a matter of WHEN...

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/07/us/tsunami-northwest-evacuation-towers.html

Scientists have been warning for years that another catastrophic quake could erupt at any time in the Cascadia subduction zone, a 600-mile-long “megathrust” fault that stretches from Vancouver Island, British Columbia, to Cape Mendocino, Calif.

 

[Tatetopa]

 

You might be able to find your state and city on here, its sorted by murder rate per capita.  Portland is down about 3/4 of the way, 78 out of 100.   Higher rates occur in Mobil by about 5x. Atlanta roughly 4x more than Portland, or even Dallas Texas with a rate 3x times Portland.  Certainly all of these are not governed by liberal politicians.  What is wrong with your city?  You can look it up on Wikipedia.  Total of all violent crimes per capita, Portland ranks 62, below Arlington, Texas and Jacksonville, Florida.  All liberal city officials there too?

Here is where Portland gets near the top, total property crimes, #7, higher than Tulsa, but lower than St. Louis and Memphis.

Unless you all got liberals running your cities and states, you might want to dig a little deeper.  And if you can't find anything here, you might want to look at infant and maternal mortality.  What is wrong with your state?

 

 

@joc is right about one thing, when the big one hits us, Portland will be toast. Even a big quake on the Pacific subduction zone can send a tsunami right up the river.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate#:~:text=Crime rates State , 20.93 11 more rows

Edited February 11, 2023 by Saru
Replaced huge table with link

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, joc said:

Okay...none of that is what is wrong with Portland....

An inevitable natural disaster has naught to do with this thread, joc.  I stand by my statement.  Portland is just one of many American cities that are undergoing controlled demolition by the Left.  It will continue until an equilibrium of misery prevails for all there.

[+and-then]

5 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Higher rates occur in Mobil by about 5x

Mobile isn't where I live.  Sadly, it now qualifies as a blue cesspool situated in a Red state.  Portland is a filthy mess and Mobile is becoming more of one every day.

[Grim Reaper 6]

6 hours ago, and-then said:

Mobile isn't where I live.  Sadly, it now qualifies as a blue cesspool situated in a Red state.  Portland is a filthy mess and Mobile is becoming more of one every day.

When is the last time you were in Portland, Oregon?

[Grim Reaper 6]

8 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

 

You might be able to find your state and city on here, its sorted by murder rate per capita.  Portland is down about 3/4 of the way, 78 out of 100.   Higher rates occur in Mobil by about 5x. Atlanta roughly 4x more than Portland, or even Dallas Texas with a rate 3x times Portland.  Certainly all of these are not governed by liberal politicians.  What is wrong with your city?  You can look it up on Wikipedia.  Total of all violent crimes per capita, Portland ranks 62, below Arlington, Texas and Jacksonville, Florida.  All liberal city officials there too?

Here is where Portland gets near the top, total property crimes, #7, higher than Tulsa, but lower than St. Louis and Memphis.

Unless you all got liberals running your cities and states, you might want to dig a little deeper.  And if you can't find anything here, you might want to look at infant and maternal mortality.  What is wrong with your state?

Great post Tate, very informative although I doubt you will get the credit you deserve from the crowd posting in this thread. 

[WVK]

9 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

 

You might be able to find your state and city on here, its sorted by murder rate per capita.  Portland is down about 3/4 of the way, 78 out of 100.   Higher rates occur in Mobil by about 5x. Atlanta roughly 4x more than Portland, or even Dallas Texas with a rate 3x times Portland.  Certainly all of these are not governed by liberal politicians.  What is wrong with your city?  You can look it up on Wikipedia.  Total of all violent crimes per capita, Portland ranks 62, below Arlington, Texas and Jacksonville, Florida.  All liberal city officials there too?

Here is where Portland gets near the top, total property crimes, #7, higher than Tulsa, but lower than St. Louis and Memphis.

Unless you all got liberals running your cities and states, you might want to dig a little deeper.  And if you can't find anything here, you might want to look at infant and maternal mortality.  What is wrong with your state?

 

 

@joc is right about one thing, when the big one hits us, Portland will be toast. Even a big quake on the Pacific subduction zone can send a tsunami right up the river.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate#:~:text=Crime rates State , 20.93 11 more rows

I suspect that those cities that you point out have had relatively high crime rates for years if not decades. Not so for Portland; what caused this?

Portland, Ore., Once Among Safest U.S. Cities, Struggles to Cut Homicide Rate

https://www.wsj.com/articles/oregons-biggest-city-struggles-to-cut-homicide-rate-11661176800

 

[Myles]

20 minutes ago, WVK said:

I suspect that those cities that you point out have had relatively high crime rates for years if not decades. Not so for Portland; what caused this?

Portland, Ore., Once Among Safest U.S. Cities, Struggles to Cut Homicide Rate

https://www.wsj.com/articles/oregons-biggest-city-struggles-to-cut-homicide-rate-11661176800

 

Actually most of the crimes in "red" states come from Democrat cities within the state.  It's just a classic democrat deflection.  

 

[Tatetopa]

15 hours ago, and-then said:

Mobile isn't where I live.  Sadly, it now qualifies as a blue cesspool situated in a Red state.  Portland is a filthy mess and Mobile is becoming more of one every day.

Didn't say it was, thought you lived in Georgia.  But thanks for your concern.  May you liver out you days in peace and righteousness.

[Gromdor]

I was in Portland two years ago.  It wan't that bad.  I did see the homeless people that everyone was talking about and crime is definately up from what it was before.

I see by the link that Tatetopa gave that Des Moines, Iowa is 4X worse for violent crimes and murder.  I would probably have to agree with that.

But people tend to fail to look at their own states when they criticize others.  I remember a thread a while back where someone was complaining about how sick Washington was because of an incident with a guy and a horse, he didn't seem to realize that it was still legal in his own state.....

 

Edit to change when I was in Portland.  It would be two years now.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Gromdor

[+DieChecker]

I think comparing Portland to other cities is like comparing one racist to another. Its not about how it compares, its about what is actually happening, compared to how it used to be.

I've lived in and around Portland since 1998, so about 25 years. It used to be spotlessly clean. With hordes of people walking everywhere. All the shops were doing well. Huge restaurants, and hotels were going up everywhere. Giant condos were built along the river. The streets and neighborhoods were renovated often. It was safe to walk around the downtown at night. There's always been "bad neighborhoods" going back into the 1980s, where gangs set up and operated from, but now it seems city wide. 

Now the city, especially downtown, is a ruin. Trash everywhere. People sleeping, and crapping openly, on the streets. Crazies running in and out of traffic on nearly every street. Nearly no one walking around. Nearly all businesses facing the streets still have plywood in the windows. Two years after the riots. 

The problem isn't necessarily the Democrat party, but that those who are in control now have been trying to win over the Far Left in the city, to try to secure their political base. BUT, the Far Left (including Antifa), even after getting much of what they wanted... Drugs Decriminalized, Overnight camping allowed everywhere, police defunding, greater diversity in city government... They still wanted MORE. The Far Left shows up to City Council meetings, and screams and hollers the whole time. They want free drugs from the city. They want theft decriminalized. They want gas cars banned. They want bicycle only streets. They want forced covid vaccines on everyone... And on and on. The City Council is 100% democrat, but they're often treated like Nazis because the Far Left doesn't get their way.

So now the Mayor, Wheeler, is trying another angle. He's tried heading toward the center. He's trying to clean up the city. And reign in the homeless. And hire a ton more cops. And is trying to entice more businesses to return to the Downtown. Mostly with the cops and businesses, he's failed. Even with giant hiring bonuses, no new cops want to work under him, and I don't blame them. He, at one point, went down to the riots and joined them against the police. HE"S SUPPOSED TO BE THE POLICE COMMISSIONER, as well as the Mayor.

Every month there is more articles on this business, and that business, and restaurants, and stores, are all abandoning Portland. It's very sad. But i would 100% agree it is Self Inflicted.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/portland-repelling-its-current-citizens-is-seattles-cautionary-tale/

Quote

Looking down I-5 at struggling Portland lately, it’s been hard not to wonder if we’re seeing a harbinger of sorts for our own city.

Our littler sister city has been careening far ahead of us in grown-up, post-pandemic urban problems. And also in how bluntly it has begun talking about how the bloom has come off the Rose City.

“Portland has switched from attracting new arrivals to repelling its current citizens,” one news outlet wrote this past week. “In Portland, many liberals are dodging stray bullets, losing catalytic converters to thieves and sidestepping tents. Then they open their tax bills.”

“Everybody hates Portland,” headlined a harsh roundup last year, which quoted a local congressman saying: “Portland is broken.”

These were not from right-wing blogs or national Fox News. The latter was from Oregon Public Broadcasting, with the congressman the city’s own liberal stalwart Rep. Earl Blumenauer. The other is a cover story this past week in the famed alternative paper there, Willamette Week, titled “They Left: Portland Is Losing Some of Its Biggest Fans.”

https://www.wweek.com/news/2023/02/01/they-left-portland-is-losing-some-of-its-biggest-fans/

Quote

The old saying is a conservative is a liberal who’s been mugged.

In Portland, many liberals are dodging stray bullets, losing catalytic converters to thieves, and sidestepping tents. Then they open their tax bills.

Maybe they aren’t voting Republican. But some are voting with their feet, getting the hell out of a city that once stole their hearts, driven away as taxes rise and quality of life declines.

 

[+DieChecker]

From 5 years ago for those who think to blame COvid for the decline.

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-people-dislike-Portland-Oregon

Quote

I moved here in 2000, and for most of the intervening years I would have said that I loved Portland.

I was that annoying relative who flew “home” for Christmas and couldn’t shut up about my chosen city. Because… the food! The cool people from so many different walks of life! The small businesses! The mass transit! The emphasis on walkability! The ease of visiting the mountains, or the desert, or the coast! The well-maintained old housing stock! The lack of urban sprawl! And, of course, the amazing microbrews!

But, now, in 2017, I have to say that Portland is spiraling out of control.

I live in a lovely old neighborhood in my “forever” house, amongst lots of other people who thought they had purchased their forever houses, too. But at a recent neighborhood meeting, all any of us could talk about was how we were all thinking about leaving Portland.

Everyone I know is tired—so very tired—of what Portland has become.

We’re tired of the trash. It's cascading down every embankment. It’s piling up on street corners, and in parks. It's slowly filling every empty space in the city.

We’re tired of finding feces, drug needles and drug dealers in our playgrounds and parks.

We’re tired of finding dumped stolen purses… and dumped stolen mail… and even dumped stolen cars.

But, most of all, we’re tired of not feeling safe.

Going for a walk is like roulette now. Will it be seeing someone getting high on your neighbor’s lawn? A person camped out on the sidewalk, beating his dog? A person peeing on the side of your house? All of these have happened to me or my neighbors in the very recent past.

Then there’s the crazy or high person in your backyard with a knife. This happened to two different households in my neighborhood. There's the trespasser who set various trash and trees on fire, all down the block, because he was mad at being forced off a neighbor’s driveway. There's then guy walking up my driveway at 2am because he needed to pee. Or so he said.

Then there's the police. Or lack of police.

They won't come if someone is getting high in your yard or in a car by your house… not unless there's an actual overdose.

The police also won’t come if someone is trying to break into your house… not unless the thief actually succeeds in breaking down the door or window. Instead, you’re supposed to sit there in your house, trapped and terrified, until the thief finally gives up. (This happened to a neighbor. And let’s just say that it took a long, long time for the thief to give up.)

So, yeah… nowadays, when I fly to see my family, I am no longer the annoying relative who can't shut up about her awesome city.

Instead, I talk about the crime. And the trash. And the way that my city government has become a joke.

Are these complicated issues? You bet. But I no longer have faith that anyone can fix them.

Portland, please prove me wrong.

 

[+and-then]

13 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

When is the last time you were in Portland, Oregon?

Not sure why that matters, but it was in 1999, IIRC.  I've been to the Rose City once, for about a week.  I loved the climate and the folks I met while there.  Things change and unless one refuses to believe the reports - and video - of what went on there for nine months of 2020, I'd say that change has all been for the worse.

[+DieChecker]

A pretty average overpass near downtown.

Not even anyone living there, just general accumulation of trash not being picked up.

https://www.koin.com/local/multnomah-county/trash-graffiti-becoming-growing-concern-on-portland-area-freeways/

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

12 minutes ago, and-then said:

Not sure why that matters, but it was in 1999, IIRC.  I've been to the Rose City once, for about a week.  I loved the climate and the folks I met while there.  Things change and unless one refuses to believe the reports - and video - of what went on there for nine months of 2020, I'd say that change has all been for the worse.

It only matters based upon the comments you made, I have friends ( retired military) who live there and yes the down portion of the city has its problems. But, the city isn’t a **** hole like you said, that was inaccurate and a unfair comparison.

[+DieChecker]

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2021/03/dumptown-how-portlands-trash-problem-spiraled-out-of-control.html

I'll let you guess where most of the homeless, drug dealers and crime is located...

[Tatetopa]

9 hours ago, Myles said:

Actually most of the crimes in "red" states come from Democrat cities within the state.  It's just a classic democrat deflection.  

 

Well, I'll tell you what, Portland is not the city I moved away from 40 years ago or even the one I moved back to 20 years ago.  Technically, I live on the outskirts, but close to South East Portland  where all of the action is.

40 years ago, South East Portland was a community mostly of blue collar working folks.  There were 2 sawmills, warehouses, factories, and distribution centers around this neighborhood.  My first job was in a pallet factory in the SE.  There was a presto-log factory, a particle board plant, all fed by sawmill waste.

My first house was wood frame 2 bedroom 1 bath that I bought for $11k from a guy with 2 kids that needed more room. I followed the woods products industry away to Springfield, Cottage Grove,  and Coos Bay for 20 years or so.  The dentist next door bought my house and turned it into a parking lot.

When I came back and drove through the neighborhood, the parking lot had become a 3 plex, with 3 renters living where I used to live.  Most of the houses had become rental properties. Jobs became lower paying warehouse and service jobs. People like me had moved away.

This is where you see most of the news stories originate now, this quadrant of low income fading Portland. There are lots of rental houses and low income jobs or unemployed people.  A few of the homeless still have some of their fallen glory, living in their 30 ft. RV with a boat in a trailer behind.

The City Center has been fading since shopping centers became more convenient and got worse when the Internet became a preferred way to shop.

Northeast Portland was the ghetto.  Trainloads of Blacks were brought up from the South to work in the Kaiser shipyards during WWII, 80 years ago.  Some gentrification, still a lot of low income folks.

Northwest Portland is metrosexual.  It is where the IT and well paid professionals live with restaurants from 30 countries. Money and prosperity. 

Southwest Portland and the Portland Hills  are where the very well off live. Not much crime here and definitely no homeless.

We rousted a portion of the city council during the last election.  We are discussing raising our taxes to hire more police.  Police roust out the homeless camps and move people on, where do they go? Police may even violate the 2nd Amendment by taking guns from homeless druggies.

There are plenty of jobs.  My kid makes $120k a year as an IT pro.  He gets called incessantly by recruiters because there are not enough like him.   Plumbers and other tradesmen do pretty well to, but there are not as many jobs for HS or non-HS graduates anymore.  South East Portland is not full of IT professionals or tradesmen, but many of the people there used to have family wage jobs.

 

If you have suggestions instead of platitudes, that would be great. What would a Republican mayor do, more crackdowns?

A lot of these homeless people used to have jobs.  A lot of people living in rentals used to have better jobs and own their own homes. Some of them are even vets who defended this country and want nothing more than to live safely with their families  

If you live in a city with a Republican government, what do you do differently?  What do you do with people who lost their jobs or don't get paid enough to get medical care for their kids?  What do you do with the fentanyl wasted shells that used to be productive?

Do we let them die or put them on busses to another city or what?  

 

 

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

29 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Well, I'll tell you what, Portland is not the city I moved away from 40 years ago or even the one I moved back to 20 years ago.  Technically, I live on the outskirts, but close to South East Portland  where all of the action is.

40 years ago, South East Portland was a community mostly of blue collar working folks.  There were 2 sawmills, warehouses, factories, and distribution centers around this neighborhood.  My first job was in a pallet factory in the SE.  There was a presto-log factory, a particle board plant, all fed by sawmill waste.

My first house was wood frame 2 bedroom 1 bath that I bought for $11k from a guy with 2 kids that needed more room. I followed the woods products industry away to Springfield, Cottage Grove,  and Coos Bay for 20 years or so.  The dentist next door bought my house and turned it into a parking lot.

When I came back and drove through the neighborhood, the parking lot had become a 3 plex, with 3 renters living where I used to live.  Most of the houses had become rental properties. Jobs became lower paying warehouse and service jobs. People like me had moved away.

This is where you see most of the news stories originate now, this quadrant of low income fading Portland. There are lots of rental houses and low income jobs or unemployed people.  A few of the homeless still have some of their fallen glory, living in their 30 ft. RV with a boat in a trailer behind.

The City Center has been fading since shopping centers became more convenient and got worse when the Internet became a preferred way to shop.

Northeast Portland was the ghetto.  Trainloads of Blacks were brought up from the South to work in the Kaiser shipyards during WWII, 80 years ago.  Some gentrification, still a lot of low income folks.

Northwest Portland is metrosexual.  It is where the IT and well paid professionals live with restaurants from 30 countries. Money and prosperity. 

Southwest Portland and the Portland Hills  are where the very well off live. Not much crime here and definitely no homeless.

We rousted a portion of the city council during the last election.  We are discussing raising our taxes to hire more police.  Police roust out the homeless camps and move people on, where do they go? Police may even violate the 2nd Amendment by taking guns from homeless druggies.

There are plenty of jobs.  My kid makes $120k a year as an IT pro.  He gets called incessantly by recruiters because there are not enough like him.   Plumbers and other tradesmen do pretty well to, but there are not as many jobs for HS or non-HS graduates anymore.  South East Portland is not full of IT professionals or tradesmen, but many of the people there used to have family wage jobs.

 

If you have suggestions instead of platitudes, that would be great. What would a Republican mayor do, more crackdowns?

A lot of these homeless people used to have jobs.  A lot of people living in rentals used to have better jobs and own their own homes. Some of them are even vets who defended this country and want nothing more than to live safely with their families  

If you live in a city with a Republican government, what do you do differently?  What do you do with people who lost their jobs or don't get paid enough to get medical care for their kids?  What do you do with the fentanyl wasted shells that used to be productive?

Do we let them die or put them on busses to another city or what?  

 

 

 

Thanks for adding this information, especially since it is coming from a Resident of Portland, Oregon. I have to close friends that live in Troutdale, Oregon and they love it. I realize that they live on the outer edge of Portland, but they both work in the city of Portland, and the descriptions some members posted in this thread do not fit with what I have seen and been told. I was back in the United States from September of 2019, until June of 2020 and we spent 3 days with my friends Mike and his family and I don’t think Portland sucks at all.

JIMHO

[Tatetopa]

Troutdale  is a little further east than I am, but I do get a slice of the country life.  

True story, I don't like protests.  I would rather Portland could turn back the clock  to a happier age.  But Portland has always had their protests, 100 years ago it was woodworkers and labor unions.  30 years ago it was people protesting the WTO and globalization as stealing jobs from America that were breaking windows and getting their heads busted.

Crackdowns would keep us out of the news, but I am not convinced that alone would solve our problems.   How do we deal with the job situation?   There are plenty of jobs for the properly skilled but  telling everybody to either work in a restaurant or get a college degree  does not seem feasible.  It seems to me to be pretty hard to have a satisfying life, a family , and be a productive member of society without a job. 

Moving is an option, but hard to consider if you like the mountains, rivers and woods for outdoor activities.  Town benefits included great fresh food, especially seafood, coffee way before Starbucks, and lots of microbreweries. 

What do you do in other areas of the country?   What do other people do, move to chase jobs or income?

[HandsomeGorilla]

Tate always coming with the measured, intelligent responses backed up with experience 

[+DieChecker]

3 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

A lot of these homeless people used to have jobs.  A lot of people living in rentals used to have better jobs and own their own homes. Some of them are even vets who defended this country and want nothing more than to live safely with their families  

If you live in a city with a Republican government, what do you do differently?  What do you do with people who lost their jobs or don't get paid enough to get medical care for their kids?  What do you do with the fentanyl wasted shells that used to be productive?

I got no idea what a Republican mayor would do. But I think some of the Dem ideas are still possibly to work. Where I live on the far west side there are houses being built, but they want $650k to $750k for them. What the poorer people need... the employed homeless... is 200k houses, or $800 a month rent. The average rent in Portland, and most surrounding areas, is about $1800. So beyond the reasonable ability of a single family near poverty to afford. 

We don't need more mansions. We need more small ranch houses. 

Myself, I think the homeless who are on drugs, or mentally unfit, should be institutionalize till they can be responsible for themselves. That might be never in some instances, but the other option is leaving them to live like foraging raccoons. Eating trash, accosting people and running out into traffic. 

I don't think the city, or state, has the nuts to do that though, and so they'll try to help those who are sane, and allow the human raccoons to just live in the parks and sidewalks for now.

2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

True story, I don't like protests.  I would rather Portland could turn back the clock  to a happier age.  But Portland has always had their protests,

Myself, I dont have issues with protesters. It's the rioters I can't stand. Like the idiots the vandalized the elk statue.

Edited February 12, 2023 by DieChecker

[Tatetopa]

32 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Myself, I dont have issues with protesters. It's the rioters I can't stand. Like the idiots the vandalized the elk statue.

You are correct sir.  It is rioters I dislike as well.  Big mistake for a liberal like me confusing protestors with rioters.

 

35 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

but the other option is leaving them to live like foraging raccoons. Eating trash, accosting people and running out into traffic. 

Man, that seems cruel, but  highly accurate.

My church attendance has fallen off, but my wife still goes.  Our church gave a portion of our parking lot to a homeless charity.  They built 10 tiny house type rooms.  The area is fenced and has a shower, trash cans, a phone, and a washing machine.  There are two or three volunteers that feed these people lunch out of the church basement and assist with health and job searches.  It got ten people out of the winter weather and three now I think  have moved on to assisted housing and jobs.  Without donations of land and materials and volunteers, I have no idea what that would cost, but its not cheap.  There is one person who is paid staff and runs the program.  She also goes to the homeless camps to try to hook up people with health and other services. I think it is important that the willing  community of private citizens handle as much of this as we can, it is our city and these are our neighbors, but some government assistance is also needed.

[Gromdor]

I still think that liberalism/conservatism based on population density.

People like Myles have repeatedly pointed out that even cities in red states are democrat controlled but have yet offered a reason why that is.  I believe that it is because conservative ideas and values don't resonate with the public after a certain density.