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Train Derailments


F3SS

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Just now, Myles said:

Anyone near this is in bad shape.   Can't sell your house and move away.  Their property values are in the toilet now.     

However, if someone believes that there is no long term threat, they could buy up some property pretty cheap.

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7 hours ago, el midgetron said:

Did it have to be done? What I read was the temp of one car was getting warmer. Does that guarantee a specific outcome? I have no doubt the people who made the decision and carried out the act all acted with the best intentions. 

From the things I've seen they say these chemicals are incredibly volatile and an explosion was imminent. 

 

6 hours ago, and-then said:

If this thing turns out to be even close to jeopardizing the drinking water of 30 million Americans, I don't think any railroad would be capable of defraying such costs.  This will become a mess for DC to clean up.  

Can't argue with that. But will they?

 

5 hours ago, acidhead said:

Who knows maybe Obama will go there, take a sip of water and claim a little poison never hurt anybody. 

Right. I think any official claiming all is well should be offered a glass of water and a place to stay on TV. It'll be like the Monsanto ceo who wouldn't drink some weed killer offered by the interviewer when claiming it was harmless.

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8 hours ago, el midgetron said:

If they end up killing thousands of people, would their good intentions matter? “We meant well” doesn’t always guarantee there are no legal consequences. 

Huh? Are you trying to blame the EPA people and not the train company?

How else were they suppose to remove the crash chemicals? 

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7 hours ago, and-then said:

Seriously?  No one is making the case that Pete is responsible for the derailment.  He IS responsible for managing a crisis like this when it involve millions of Americans.  Did I miss his presser where he explained what steps are going to be taken to mitigate this disaster?  

Yes, seriously.  You want the Dept of Transportation to be responsible for cleaning up chemical spills, testing water, protecting the environment, and insuring the local animals and populace to stay healthy?  That's more than an over reach.

Fess spills a can of paint- Fess cleans up a can of pain and pays for whatever damages it caused.  Fess steps up and takes responsibility for his truck, his flat tire, and his paint.   Just like Norfolk Southern should be doing in all this.

Socialism much?

 

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30 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Fess spills a can of paint- Fess cleans up a can of pain and pays for whatever damages it caused.  Fess steps up and takes responsibility for his truck, his flat tire, and his paint.   Just like Norfolk Southern should be doing in all this.

Oddly there's a high chance this will happen to me on any given day. 

Problem I have is I'm not sure I trust NS to oversee the operation. They should be held fiscally and legally responsible by all means but I want to trust the government to manage the operation. Manage it, pay for it and send NS the bills and court summons. 

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6 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Oddly there's a high chance this will happen to me on any given day. 

Problem I have is I'm not sure I trust NS to oversee the operation. They should be held fiscally and legally responsible by all means but I want to trust the government to manage the operation. Manage it, pay for it and send NS the bills and court summons. 

From the EPA daily updates link I was reading, it looks like Northfolk was in charge of clean up but were supervised by the EPA (with help from local health and fire)

So idk. We can all make of that what we will I guess.

Edited by spartan max2
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I wonder who Norfolk has insurance with for this?   How is it worded? 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Myles said:

 

Interesting enough, the Governor Mike Dewine said it's all clear.

Really a lot of conflicting information going around.

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12 hours ago, and-then said:

Seriously?  No one is making the case that Pete is responsible for the derailment.  He IS responsible for managing a crisis like this when it involve millions of Americans.  Did I miss his presser where he explained what steps are going to be taken to mitigate this disaster?  

No but even his department the DOT put out a tweet that said they are not powerless as Pete claimed, but there are a number of things they can do.

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12 hours ago, and-then said:

If this thing turns out to be even close to jeopardizing the drinking water of 30 million Americans, I don't think any railroad would be capable of defraying such costs.  This will become a mess for DC to clean up.  

For the last 50 years at least, industry and government have said dilution is the solution to pollution.  Same old song whether it is Democrats or Republicans in charge. 

You can blame Trump for his four years of deregulation, with all of his supporters cheering about how great that was and how a business-minded outsider was reducing the cost of government and giving people more freedom.   You can blame Biden for doing butkis about it in his term.  For all of his union talk, Biden, like every administration sides with the mine owners instead of the miners, the paper mill instead of the  homeowners around the lake, the hog farm instead of the town downstream, the frackers instead of the people whose wells are poisoned.

And every time they trot out their arguments and get a sufficient number of people to say,  well we need that fracking for cheaper fuel, we need those mines for jobs, we need that hog farm for our food supply, we need that railroad to transport our goods, or inflation will go up.

Never mind the fact that in every instance, more money flows to the top instead of responsibility and people on the bottom are always left holding the bag.    Who knew that much freedom could be a health hazard?

 

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Meanwhile in Arkansas: Gov. Sarah Huckabee Sanders announces legal challenge against EPA, cites ‘federal overreach’ | KLRT - FOX16.com

“I’ve asked Attorney General Griffin to sue the EPA to get bureaucratic tyrants in Washington off Arkansans’ backs,” Sanders said. “Critical Arkansas industries – and more importantly, Arkansas workers and their families – stand to be affected by this federal overreach. The Biden Administration is threatening dozens of Arkansas businesses and thousands of Arkansas jobs.”

It's always about the money and the jobs over health and safety, isn't it?

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1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

No but even his department the DOT put out a tweet that said they are not powerless as Pete claimed, but there are a number of things they can do.

Pete claimed that?

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13 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Pete claimed that?

I am sure there are two sides to this, but we are accustomed to one party blaming the other instead of finding solutions.   Pete is taking the view that it is Trump's fault for eliminating the rule, and maybe it is.  But he is not being clever about how to solve the problem.  

https://www.levernews.com/buttigieg-pretends-hes-powerless-to-reduce-derailment-risks/

Facing pressure from lawmakers in his own party after a spate of train derailments, Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg has now resorted to falsely suggesting that he does not have power to compel the rail industry to upgrade its safety equipment and procedures.

In a Twitter thread posted more than a week after Norfolk Southern’s fiery train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, Buttigieg indicated that he cannot reinstate an Obama-enacted, Trump-repealed law requiring some trains carrying hazardous materials to replace their Civil War-era braking systems with new Electronically Controlled Pneumatic (ECP) brake technology.

“We’re constrained by law on some areas of rail regulation (like the braking rule withdrawn by the Trump administration in 2018 because of a law passed by Congress in 2015),” Buttigieg wrote.

“The Federal Railroad Administration’s mission is to promote rail safety,” said John Risch, a retired railroad worker and former legislative director of the Sheet Metal, Air, Rail and Transport Workers union, referring to an agency within the Transportation Department. “If they believe that ECP brakes are essential to rail safety, they could require ECP brakes on certain trains or whatever they want to do.”

Risch added that nothing prevents Buttigieg from using his existing rulemaking authority to expand the definition of a “high-hazard flammable train” to cover trains like the one in Ohio.

Under the existing limited definition, the Ohio train — which was carrying five tanker cars of vinyl chloride, a Class 2 flammable gas and known carcinogen — was exempted from the classification’s more stringent safety regulations.

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I'm certainly against burdensome regulation but it's not like brake systems will inhibit the speed and efficiency of getting a job done. Is it really more cost effective to deal with wrecked trains and environmental hazards than is is to install and maintenance new brakes?

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6 hours ago, Myles said:

I wonder who Norfolk has insurance with for this?   How is it worded? 

 

 

 

 

It is self insured for up to $75 million and then has a third party insurer for the amount between $75 million to $800 million for third party damage.  The estimated cost for this accident is $100 million which according to the article is a 25 cents per share (currently at $228 per share) but it is expected to make $13.72 in earnings per share this year.  So Norolk Southern will be fine as will their investors.: Norfolk Southern train derailment likely to have minimal impact on shareholders | Fox Business

The cost per share of course would be less if they can pass off the expenses to the tax payer.

They can only afford 54 more crashes of this nature before they would wipe out their profit for this year and start taking losses.

edit to add: Hmm, by my math this company is making about 6% profit.  Not a bad company to invest in.

Edited by Gromdor
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1 hour ago, F3SS said:

I'm certainly against burdensome regulation but it's not like brake systems will inhibit the speed and efficiency of getting a job done. Is it really more cost effective to deal with wrecked trains and environmental hazards than is is to install and maintenance new brakes?

Well, what constitutes a burdensome regulation might be based on the the opinion of the regulated.   Railroads have argued this regulation for improved braking was burdensome.  The people of Palestine, Ohio might think of it as basic safety.   

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12 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Huh? Are you trying to blame the EPA people and not the train company?

How else were they suppose to remove the crash chemicals? 

Was it the EPA that lit it on fire?

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17 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Was it the EPA that lit it on fire?

They supervised Northfolk and the fire department to do the slow burn off.

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Its interesting watching people freak out. Hard to know what is normal things people are panicking about and what's a concern.

For example, on my social media some random guy in my city claims he tested the rains PH and claims it was 4.8

Then we got videos of the creeks with rainbow chemical sheens, which Dewine finally confirmed today are legit. That some creeks in east Palestine are severely contaminated and not remediated yet.

Edited by spartan max2
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Sooo…. The lack of acceptable response to a train derailment under Biden is Trump’s fault? 

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1 minute ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Sooo…. The lack of acceptable response to a train derailment under Biden is Trump’s fault? 

The capacity for Americans to turn any situation into a political c*** fight is bottomless.

Almost immediately I saw people trying to blame Biden or Trump for the thing.

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55 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Sooo…. The lack of acceptable response to a train derailment under Biden is Trump’s fault? 

Yes! If Trump didn't run for reelection then Biden never would have ran against him. It's not Biden's fault.  He never really wanted the job but had to in order to stop the complete destruction of America under Trump.  Build Back Better is going to take some time after everything crumbled and fell apart the previous 4 years. Blue Wave!!!

Edited by acidhead
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So there was no way to secure these chemicals? It’s just hard to believe the only course of action was to create a giant cloud of toxins, Their solution was just like the worst case scenario minus the shrapnel. 

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4 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

So there was no way to secure these chemicals? It’s just hard to believe the only course of action was to create a giant cloud of toxins, Their solution was just like the worst case scenario minus the shrapnel. 

They were trying to release them slowly so there was no explosion. I know people who work in environmental clean-up. The motto is "The solution to pollution is dilution." The chemicals have now been released into the air and will dissipate.

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