Train Derailments

[Tatetopa]

18 hours ago, el midgetron said:

I’m afraid we would have to invade to de-nazify Wokistan

You are not content telling everybody in your own state what to do?  Do you want to invade other countries so you can tell them how to live?  Is you last name Cheney?

[el midgetron]

2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

You are not content telling everybody in your own state what to do?  Do you want to invade other countries so you can tell them how to live?  Is you last name Cheney?

It would be the only way to save you folks from self-inflicted accusations of bigotry and the crushing guilt of your whiteness. You built a new country on top of a country that was colonized on genocide and built on the backs of slaves. The legacy your new country inherited and continues to perpetuate is that of white supremacy and systemic racism. I suspect our liberation forces would be welcomed with open arms. 
 

Seriously though, we would never dare invade Wokistan. There would be a hepatitis infected needle behind every blade of grass

[Bed of chaos]

On 2/21/2023 at 4:27 PM, and-then said:

That would be a very risky investment.  The lawsuits that are coming will keep this event in the public eye for a very long time and in today's America, perception is stronger than reality.  That's why our corporate media is so culpable in the worsening condition of our nation - IMO.

I'm curious about this. The property value in surrounding area.  I wouldn't doubt some residents want to leave & get horrible low ball offers on property.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Bed of chaos

[+susieice]

7 minutes ago, Bed of chaos said:

I'm curious about this. The property value in surrounding area. If someone moves, how much do they lose? Residents are still getting sick. Who would want to live there.

Yes. I would suspect that property values will drop pretty low. I haven't really read this whole thread but does anyone really know the long term effects of all this? I doubt those people are being told the whole truth.

[+and-then]

On 2/22/2023 at 6:13 AM, Myles said:

I think you are throwing a huge blanket over a bunch of people.   Everyone should not feel they must fight for everything one party stands for. 

Of course he is.  The addition of the "Confederate flag" comment says everything about his loathing and willingness to slander anyone on the Right.  It's quite typical of him.  Turning the discussion towards something that might be construed as "civil war" talk is also and old standby for many here today.  They're ridiculous but predictable.  

[+and-then]

13 minutes ago, Bed of chaos said:

If someone moves, how much do they lose?

I couldn't put a specific number to it but it's pretty easy to see how this unfolds.  Just imagine you lived in a place where news and or rumor is spread that it has become dangerously toxic.  Now imagine what it would take to sell your house to anyone, at nearly any price.  

[el midgetron]

As part of the plan to boost tourism in Chernobyl, it is now possible to rent 700-square buildings for only 11 dollars per month. 

Chernobyl is the most visited place for tourists in Ukraine, and the government has plans about bringing even more tourists into the zone. A new initiative comes from the Ukrainian State Property Fund, which is in charge of the privatization of state assets. 

The State Property Fund now rents out 36 places in Chernobyl, such as 700-square meters buildings, for as low as 11 dollars per month. The goal is to increase the economic activity around the zone and boost tourism, writes Kyiv Post. 

https://ukrainenu.com/rent-a-building-in-chernobyl-for-only-11-dollars-per-month/

 

 

[el midgetron]

 

 

 

[Tatetopa]

5 hours ago, el midgetron said:

It would be the only way to save you folks from self-inflicted accusations of bigotry and the crushing guilt of your whiteness. You built a new country on top of a country that was colonized on genocide and built on the backs of slaves. The legacy your new country inherited and continues to perpetuate is that of white supremacy and systemic racism. I suspect our liberation forces would be welcomed with open arms. 
 

Seriously though, we would never dare invade Wokistan. There would be a hepatitis infected needle behind every blade of grass

You must be kidding.  We will blame you for all the past sins and sleep like babies.  If things get too bad, I will just identify as Indian and start singing Lakota songs. I still now a few.

[Myles]

12 hours ago, and-then said:

I couldn't put a specific number to it but it's pretty easy to see how this unfolds.  Just imagine you lived in a place where news and or rumor is spread that it has become dangerously toxic.  Now imagine what it would take to sell your house to anyone, at nearly any price.  

Not much of a chance of anyone getting a good price for their property around that area.   I would bet that property values in a 100 mile radius have fallen.  

[Gromdor]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

Not much of a chance of anyone getting a good price for their property around that area.   I would bet that property values in a 100 mile radius have fallen.  

You know, that got me curious.  They do have a bit of history we can compare too, so I am going to research it a bit. 

We know Norfolk Southern had a similar train crash in 2005 in Graniteville, South Carolina that killed 10, injured 250+ and forced the town to evactuate for two weeks.  They spilled chlorine gas, sodium hydroxide, and cresol that time. Graniteville train crash - Wikipedia

A google search shows this: graniteville SC home prices by year - Bing Search

Hmm.  They have a middle school two blocks away from the accident site.  The home prices don't really seem to be affected, but after looking at it, it seems to be a suburb more or less of Augusta, Georgia.

It scores meh on health: Health in Graniteville, South Carolina (bestplaces.net)

They have better water but worse air than my town 2023 Compare Cities Health: Ames, IA vs Graniteville, SC (bestplaces.net)

But Iowa loosens the regulations when it comes to farm run-off into the water supply compared to most other states.  Fish kills happen quite frequently here.So I can see that.

Looking at East Palestein, I gotta say Ughh.  They already have crappy water: 2023 Compare Cities Health: Ames, IA vs East Palestine, OH (bestplaces.net)

Edited February 24, 2023 by Gromdor

[Eldorado]

Nearly 45,000 animals were killed after a train carrying toxic chemicals derailed in Ohio, according to environmental officials.

The Ohio Department of Natural Resources said that 43,700 aquatic species died over a five-mile radius following the incident on February 3 - more than ten times the initial estimate.

Mary Mertz, director of the Ohio Department of Natural Resources said that 38,222 small fish were potentially killed as a result of the derailment of a Norfolk Southern freight train, as well as an additional 5,500 other species of fish, amphibians and other creatures.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/almost-45-000-animals-died-after-ohio-train-carrying-toxic-chemicals-derailed/ar-AA17TtBt?

[+and-then]

On 2/17/2023 at 7:10 AM, Gromdor said:

Fess spills a can of paint- Fess cleans up a can of pain and pays for whatever damages it caused.  Fess steps up and takes responsibility for his truck, his flat tire, and his paint.   Just like Norfolk Southern should be doing in all this.

I never said they weren't liable.  You should read a bit more carefully before you launch.  I said that if this catastrophe is as widespread as it first appears, no single corporation - except maybe an oil company - could have the resources to cover the cleanup.  The federal government has grown for decades with the mantra that they are empowered to "protect" Americans.  You can't have it both ways.  The current punk has done a laughable job in his time in DC.  He should at least be able to manage a crisis like this.  All he needs to do is get the real executives together and help them make a plan and prioritize the most crucial steps to mitigate what has happened.  It has been a month.  He has done nothing of substance.  In fact, he has blatantly ignored the situation until he was compelled to act by the media reaction to Orange Man Bad showing up to help the community and to call Biden's people out.  Disgraceful.

[+and-then]

On 2/17/2023 at 3:12 PM, F3SS said:

I'm certainly against burdensome regulation but it's not like brake systems will inhibit the speed and efficiency of getting a job done. Is it really more cost effective to deal with wrecked trains and environmental hazards than is is to install and maintenance new brakes?

I expect so.  The reality is that it's cheaper to pay for the lost lives of a few hundred airline passengers each decade than to be bothered with the expense of keeping an entire fleet at top protection.  I notice quite a few throwing shade at Trump because he rescinded burdensome rules of the Obama era.  They claim that his action led to this disaster but even the current chair of the NTSB refutes this.  The rule he set aside wouldn't have come into play with this accident at all.

[Tatetopa]

30 minutes ago, and-then said:

I said that if this catastrophe is as widespread as it first appears, no single corporation - except maybe an oil company - could have the resources to cover the cleanup.

We are talking about a $55 billion dollar company. They seem to be doing OK.  If this clean up cost $100 million, it would impact their quarterly earnings of $958 million by 11%

http://www.nscorp.com/content/nscorp/en/news/norfolk-southern-reports-third-quarter-2022-financial-results.html

Norfolk Southern reports third quarter 2022 financial results

Posts quarterly financial records, improved service for customers

Third quarter railway operating revenue was $3.3 billion, income from railway operations was $1.3 billion, net income was $958 million, and diluted earnings per share were $4.10.

“In the third quarter, the Norfolk Southern team achieved record financial results and improved service levels for our customers through our robust hiring initiatives and the launch and execution of our new operating plan, TOP|SPG,” said Norfolk Southern President and Chief Executive Officer Alan H. Shaw. “Our entire team is aligned to building on this operational momentum, while ensuring customers remain at the center of our approach, all to deliver value to our shareholders.”

 

[Gromdor]

4 hours ago, and-then said:

I never said they weren't liable.  You should read a bit more carefully before you launch.  I said that if this catastrophe is as widespread as it first appears, no single corporation - except maybe an oil company - could have the resources to cover the cleanup.  The federal government has grown for decades with the mantra that they are empowered to "protect" Americans.  You can't have it both ways.  The current punk has done a laughable job in his time in DC.  He should at least be able to manage a crisis like this.  All he needs to do is get the real executives together and help them make a plan and prioritize the most crucial steps to mitigate what has happened.  It has been a month.  He has done nothing of substance.  In fact, he has blatantly ignored the situation until he was compelled to act by the media reaction to Orange Man Bad showing up to help the community and to call Biden's people out.  Disgraceful.

Back in 2005 the exact same railroad company  Norfolk Southern spilled chemicals, killed 10, injured 250, and forced a town to evacuate for two weeks in Graniteville South Carolina.  Graniteville train crash - Wikipedia

They paid for it then, was sued, settled for an undisclosed amount, and then business as usual. You know, being a multi-billion dollar company and all.

Here is a bit of homework for you.  How many derailments did we have in the previous presidency, how many times did that president visit the scene of a derailment, how many times did the sec. of transportation (Elaine Chao) visit a derailment, and who exactly is the one wanting it both ways?

I'll give you a headstart:

 List of rail accidents (2010–2019) - Wikipedia

Even Fox News admits Elaine Chao 'never' visited an accident as Buttigieg travels to East Palestine (msn.com)

[Gromdor]

I don't know if this was posted yet, but I find it humorous: Texas official raises numerous questions about Ohio train derailment wastewater sent to her county - CBS News

All that wastewater from the accident that everyone is worried about?   Yeah, they are going to punp it into the ground in Texas....

[Tatetopa]

4 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

I don't know if this was posted yet, but I find it humorous: Texas official raises numerous questions about Ohio train derailment wastewater sent to her county - CBS News

All that wastewater from the accident that everyone is worried about?   Yeah, they are going to punp it into the ground in Texas....

I have heard about these guys.  They inject spent printer's ink, what they call "tank bottoms"  which sounds like the sludge that gets cleaned out of oil tankers and maybe RR tank cars along with other hazardous materials back into abandoned oil wells.  The claim is that the wells are drilled in stable formations, way  below aquifer level and just like oil stayed trapped there, when they are empty this other stuff is pumped in.  The theory being that it will not migrate from where they put it for thousands of years. It is a big business in Texas.  Apparently it is also how refineries do house cleaning.

Certainly no one would be suggesting that there be any regulations concerning disposal of hazardous wastes; regulations that might harm businesses?  No doubt they are contributors toward Greg Abbots campaigns.

[Gromdor]

4 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I have heard about these guys.  They inject spent printer's ink, what they call "tank bottoms"  which sounds like the sludge that gets cleaned out of oil tankers and maybe RR tank cars along with other hazardous materials back into abandoned oil wells.  The claim is that the wells are drilled in stable formations, way  below aquifer level and just like oil stayed trapped there, when they are empty this other stuff is pumped in.  The theory being that it will not migrate from where they put it for thousands of years. It is a big business in Texas.  Apparently it is also how refineries do house cleaning.

Certainly no one would be suggesting that there be any regulations concerning disposal of hazardous wastes; regulations that might harm businesses?  No doubt they are contributors toward Greg Abbots campaigns.

Texas does fracking, right?  And the various chemicals have different densities and solubilities than oil.  But other than that, I am sure it is 100% safe and within the standards of Texas regulations.

[spartan max2]

Sort of disappointed how this train thing someone became a political dick measuring contest.

But I was also surprised when the China balloon thing did as well.

Guess it's my fault for expecting more from people.

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

Texas does fracking, right?  And the various chemicals have different densities and solubilities than oil.  But other than that, I am sure it is 100% safe and within the standards of Texas regulations.

No doubt.  They started pitching the idea in the 80's.  My dad the Republican geologist thought it was a pretty good idea.  He was not in favor of all of those restricting regulations either, and he thought the old oil fields in West Texas would be perfect and hold millions of barrels of  stuff.  I think he was partly influenced because he owned shares on some of the leases over there, it was going to make a lot of money.  Regulations are so woke don't you think?

[Myles]

18 hours ago, Eldorado said:

Nearly 45,000 animals were killed after a train carrying toxic chemicals derailed in Ohio, according to environmental officials.

The Ohio Department of Natural Resources said that 43,700 aquatic species died over a five-mile radius following the incident on February 3 - more than ten times the initial estimate.

Mary Mertz, director of the Ohio Department of Natural Resources said that 38,222 small fish were potentially killed as a result of the derailment of a Norfolk Southern freight train, as well as an additional 5,500 other species of fish, amphibians and other creatures.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/almost-45-000-animals-died-after-ohio-train-carrying-toxic-chemicals-derailed/ar-AA17TtBt?

I sure wouldn't want to live anywhere is a 100 mile radius of that place.  

[+susieice]

I was just going to post. A lot of contaminated water and soil has been dumped in Texas and Michigan without warning.

https://6abc.com/ohio-train-derailment-contaminated-water-in-texas-belleville-mi/12878020/?ex_cid=TA_WPVI_FB&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1LoGMIsa0lJMGW82OZOZqKSR5iAeqSeQRKnIf2DDTpxWY74FC9VkSlLIQ

EAST PALESTINE, Ohio -- Officials in Texas and Michigan are complaining they didn't receive any warning that contaminated water and soil from the train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, would be shipped into their jurisdictions for disposal, CNN reported.

About 2 million gallons of firefighting water from the train derailment site are expected to be disposed in Harris County, Texas, with about half a million gallons already there, according to the county's chief executive.

"It's a very real problem, we were told yesterday the materials were coming only to learn today they've been here for a week," Judge Lina Hidalgo said Thursday.

Contaminated soil from the derailment site is being taken to the US Ecology Wayne Disposal in Belleville, Michigan, US Rep. Debbie Dingell of Michigan said Friday.

[Doug1066]

See now we see the results of Republican government:  repeal safety regulations pertaining to railcars so the big companies can make exorbitant profits and some trackside community has its water poisoned.  Why did the company VP refuse to drink the water or stay in a hotel in town?

Don't worry about Norfolk Southern.  They'll get to pay off the bill over an extended period.  It will barely affect their quarterly profits.  And it won't affect the CEO's income by a penny.  The govt even allows them to pay off fines that way.

 

BTW:  Exxon has not yet paid off the fine it incurred as a result of the Exxon Valez (under Bush I), let alone finished the cleanup.  They just walked off and left it.  I think they should maintain a permanent crew onsite working on cleanup and mitigation.

Doug

 

[bmk1245]

10 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

See now we see the results of Republican government:  repeal safety regulations pertaining to railcars so the big companies can make exorbitant profits and some trackside community has its water poisoned.  Why did the company VP refuse to drink the water or stay in a hotel in town?

Don't worry about Norfolk Southern.  They'll get to pay off the bill over an extended period.  It will barely affect their quarterly profits.  And it won't affect the CEO's income by a penny.  The govt even allows them to pay off fines that way.

 

BTW:  Exxon has not yet paid off the fine it incurred as a result of the Exxon Valez (under Bush I), let alone finished the cleanup.  They just walked off and left it.  I think they should maintain a permanent crew onsite working on cleanup and mitigation.

Doug

 

Let me quess, train derailment in Paulsboro was caused by republicans...