Train Derailments

[Doug1066]

12 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Let me quess, train derailment in Paulsboro was caused by republicans...

Palestine, Ohio.  But I can look into Paulsboro if you like.

Doug

[bmk1245]

10 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Palestine, Ohio.  But I can look into Paulsboro if you like.

Doug

Do it.

PS when your toilet overflows, don't forget to blame republicans for that...

[Doug1066]

37 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Do it.

PS when your toilet overflows, don't forget to blame republicans for that...

The Paulsboro derailment was caused by the malfunction of a swing bridge.  Whether that was the result of a safety violation, I don't know.  At any rate, it was before Trump "deregulated" the rail safety standards, so we can't lay that at his doorstep.

The Palestine derailment was the result of the violation of safety protocols required before deregulation, but not afterward.  Railroads will do what they have always done - make the largest profits possible, public safety be damned.  Neglect of safety was a perfectly-predictable outcome of deregulation.

Anybody want to bet what party the company officers voted for?  Norfolk Southern lobbied for deregulation.  So in either case, it was Republicans who initiated the change, starting the sequence of events that led to the Palestine derailment.

 

Some decades ago, now, the good-ol'-boys who run this town hired one of their buddies to replace the town's water and sewer systems.  They didn't bother inspecting his work, because they all knew him to be trustworthy.  He installed cheap, below-specs pipe and skipped town with the profits.  The City Council at the time was entirely Republican, so if my toilet overflows, I know whose negligence is at fault.

 

Elections have consequences.  Vote for a crooked or incompetent candidate and you share the responsibility.

Doug

 

Edited February 25 by Doug1066

[bmk1245]

11 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

The Paulsboro derailment was caused by the malfunction of a swing bridge.  Whether that was the result of a safety violation, I don't know.  At any rate, it was before Trump "deregulated" the rail safety standards, so we can't lay that at his doorstep.

The Palestine derailment was the result of the violation of safety protocols required before deregulation, but not afterward.  Railroads will do what they have always done - make the largest profits possible, public safety be damned.  Neglect of safety was a perfectly-predictable outcome of deregulation.

Anybody want to bet what party the company officers voted for?  Norfolk Southern lobbied for deregulation.  So in either case, it was Republicans who initiated the change, starting the sequence of events that led to the Palestine derailment.

 

Some decades ago, now, the good-ol'-boys who run this town hired one of their buddies to replace the town's water and sewer systems.  They didn't bother inspecting his work, because they all knew him to be trustworthy.  He installed cheap, below-specs pipe and skipped town with the profits.  The City Council at the time was entirely Republican, so if my toilet overflows, I know whose negligence is at fault.

 

Elections have consequences.  Vote for a crooked or incompetent candidate and you share the responsibility.

Doug

 

So, why malfunction of a swing bridge happened? Republicans?

[Doug1066]

17 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

So, why malfunction of a swing bridge happened? Republicans?

Don't know.  But NTSB wrote a report on it.

Apparently, the train crew encountered a red light, stopped the train and keyed for a signal re-set.  The light remained red.  The conductor walked ahead, examined the bridge and reported it looked safe.  He then tried another signal re-set with the same result.  He then called dispatch and together with them decided to proceed.  The engines and several cars made it across the bridge.  The cars carrying the hazardous vinyl chloride were the ones that fell into the river.  I was unable to find the cause of the bridge malfunction.

Doug

Edited February 25 by Doug1066

[bmk1245]

7 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Don't know.  But NTSB wrote a report on it.  Look it up.

Doug

What NTSB says about Ohio accident? Any reference to reps, or deregulations?

[Doug1066]

4 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

What NTSB says about Ohio accident? Any reference to reps, or deregulations?

The cause was a hot box.  These are quite common.  The railroads used to employ car knockers to watch for them and stop the train if they spotted one.  But they figured that it cost more to employ watchers than it did to replace burned out wheel bearings, so they lobbied to have the rule repealed.  The rule has been an on-and-off sort of thing for decades.  Trump was the latest one involved in the rule's repeal.

Doug

[bmk1245]

15 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

The cause was a hot box.  These are quite common.  The railroads used to employ car knockers to watch for them and stop the train if they spotted one.  But they figured that it cost more to employ watchers than it did to replace burned out wheel bearings, so they lobbied to have the rule repealed.  The rule has been an on-and-off sort of thing for decades.  Trump was the latest one involved in the rule's repeal.

Doug

OK, what was the rule implemented by Trump administration that caused Ohio accident?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

19 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

I have heard about these guys.  They inject spent printer's ink, what they call "tank bottoms"  which sounds like the sludge that gets cleaned out of oil tankers and maybe RR tank cars along with other hazardous materials back into abandoned oil wells.  The claim is that the wells are drilled in stable formations, way  below aquifer level and just like oil stayed trapped there, when they are empty this other stuff is pumped in.  The theory being that it will not migrate from where they put it for thousands of years. It is a big business in Texas.  Apparently it is also how refineries do house cleaning.

Certainly no one would be suggesting that there be any regulations concerning disposal of hazardous wastes; regulations that might harm businesses?  No doubt they are contributors toward Greg Abbots campaigns.

That …. That is LITERALLY the plot of a 1970s Doctor Who, except it was a coal mine, not an oil well. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

47 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Don't know.  But NTSB wrote a report on it.

Apparently, the train crew encountered a red light, stopped the train and keyed for a signal re-set.  The light remained red.  The conductor walked ahead, examined the bridge and reported it looked safe.  He then tried another signal re-set with the same result.  He then called dispatch and together with them decided to proceed.  The engines and several cars made it across the bridge.  The cars carrying the hazardous vinyl chloride were the ones that fell into the river.  I was unable to find the cause of the bridge malfunction.

Doug

Might the bridge “malfunction” have had something to do with the red light that he decided to ignore?

[Doug1066]

20 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

OK, what was the rule implemented by Trump administration that caused Ohio accident?

Not implemented:  repealed.

Wheel bearings must periodically be inspected for proper lubrication.  The cause of the accident was inadequate grease in the bearing.

Doug

[Doug1066]

13 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Might the bridge “malfunction” have had something to do with the red light that he decided to ignore?

Apparently the system detected a problem and refused to give clearance.

Doug

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

42 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Apparently the system detected a problem and refused to give clearance.

Doug

Wow… so the system failed because of the usual point of failures - humans. 

[Galactic]

Here's something to add with in the topic that has bit revealed the data in light of Ohio train derailment that shows accidental releases. 

here's the link below

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/25/revealed-us-chemical-accidents-one-every-two-days-average?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-1

[bmk1245]

8 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

Not implemented:  repealed.

Wheel bearings must periodically be inspected for proper lubrication.  The cause of the accident was inadequate grease in the bearing.

Doug

Improper maintanence.  Similar shaite happens all over the world, and in many industries.

[bmk1245]

8 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Wow… so the system failed because of the usual point of failures - humans. 

Yeap, human factor is usual suspect.

[Tatetopa]

1 minute ago, bmk1245 said:

Improper maintanence.  Similar shaite happens all over the world, and in many industries.

Ever done any maintenance in a manufacturing environment?   The maintenance dept can do their job well, stick to a preventative maintenance schedule, replace worn components and request time and parts to do serious maintenance.  The corporation can do its job well and provide sufficient time and an available spare part inventory.   If one or the other fails, it is improper maintenance. Since money is always in the  driver's seat,  money drives behavior.  If the reason is :wheel bearings not replaced, did management provide time and spare parts or not?

[bmk1245]

9 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Ever done any maintenance in a manufacturing environment?   The maintenance dept can do their job well, stick to a preventative maintenance schedule, replace worn components and request time and parts to do serious maintenance.  The corporation can do its job well and provide sufficient time and an available spare part inventory.   If one or the other fails, it is improper maintenance. Since money is always in the  driver's seat,  money drives behavior.  If the reason is :wheel bearings not replaced, did management provide time and spare parts or not?

No, but I do regular maintenance in the lab.

If management failed, its company's fault. For example, FAA have strict rules over airplane maintanence, still some companies/people find shortcuts causing disaster.

PS its not advert, but I'd recommend Mentour Pilot to watch, high quality stuff about aviation.

[Doug1066]

8 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

Yeap, human factor is usual suspect.

Accidents usually occur at the intersection of an unsafe condition and an unthinking action.  Because people refuse to think, safety rules try to control the unsafe condition.

Doug

[bmk1245]

2 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Accidents usually occur at the intersection of an unsafe condition and an unthinking action.  Because people refuse to think, safety rules try to control the unsafe condition.

Doug

Can't argue here.

[Doug1066]

Just saw a tape of Trump's speech at Palestine.  All he could talk about was tweety birds.  He completely missed the point that folks can't drink the water or cook their meals without it.  How can anybody be so far out of touch?

Doug

[bmk1245]

1 hour ago, Doug1066 said:

Just saw a tape of Trump's speech at Palestine.  All he could talk about was tweety birds.  He completely missed the point that folks can't drink the water or cook their meals without it.  How can anybody be so far out of touch?

Doug

What exact words he said got you triggerred?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

2 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

Just saw a tape of Trump's speech at Palestine.  All he could talk about was tweety birds.  He completely missed the point that folks can't drink the water or cook their meals without it.  How can anybody be so far out of touch?

Doug

Who gives a sheet what Dementia Turnip says? BOM’s not the President. 
Worry about what the President DOES and that is, apparently, snicker when asked if he’s going to help the people of Ohio.

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Who gives a sheet what Dementia Turnip says? BOM’s not the President. 
Worry about what the President DOES and that is, apparently, snicker when asked if he’s going to help the people of Ohio.

What happens during a VIP tour?  A guy in white boots or a white hat shows up and finds a photogenic place to pose.  All work stops. If people are suffering and in need they get put on hold.  It material is leaking into the stream, work stops so the big guy whoever he is gets his photo op.

Did the state governor get called immediately by the president and asked if he needed any aid?  Was the state governor allowed his own photo op and news conference without interference by the president because he is the state's highest executive ?  Yes to both.

Did the NTSB and EPA get there within hours and start investigation? Yes they did.

Did the NTSB find the cause of the derailment, and was Norfolk Southern held accountable, Yes to both. 

Are hazardous materials already being sent to approved hazardous material disposal sites?  Yes they are.

Is the Sec. of Transportation  implementing new rules and asking Congress to pass safety legislation?  Yes to both.

Has Pete seen the error of standing back and not making a public appearance?  Yes he has.  How many shovelfuls of dirt or gallons of  water did he handle while all other work stropped?  One or two.

Would Biden have been better served by showing up, throwing paper towels and bottles of water into the crowd turning his back and offering no further aid?  Probably.

Did Biden need to order a door to door wellness check on citizens toi ask them what they need?  It might help some of them but it won't help him any.

[Doug1066]

18 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

What exact words he said got you triggerred?

"Tweety birds."  His attitude was that the deaths of a few birds weren't important and he completely neglected any mention of contaminated water and air.  If you're killing "tweety birds" you're poisoning people.  The idiot doesn't seem to have a clue how ecosystems work.

Doug