Ukraine war: Blinken says China may give weapons to Russia

[Unusual Tournament]

Ukraine war: Blinken says China may give weapons to Russia

China is considering giving Russia weapons and ammunition for the Ukraine war, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64695042.amp

 

 

[Occult1]

Seems like China is looking for ways to 'hit back' at the U.S. after the whole Taiwan provocation and balloon incident.

Providing lethal aid to Russia in Ukraine would indeed p*** the U.S./NATO very much.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Occult1

[JVG]

I’m still shocked that Putin has not had a heart attack or fallen out of a hospital window from the 13 floor.

[Unusual Tournament]

1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

Seems like China is looking for ways to 'hit back' at the U.S. after the whole Taiwan provocation and balloon incident.

Providing lethal aid to Russia in Ukraine would indeed p*** the U.S./NATO very much.

…the danger here is a coalition of the disgruntled. Russia, China, Iran, North Korea and any other authoritarian and power inspired country. Russia falls and the rest know they’re next. 

[Unusual Tournament]

1 hour ago, JVG said:

I’m still shocked that Putin has not had a heart attack or fallen out of a hospital window from the 13 floor.

…some Russian general stood on a window ledge for a whole 2 hours smoking filter less camels and drinking vodka without committing suicide. Who knows, maybe suicide prevention is working 

[spartan max2]

20 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

…the danger here is a coalition of the disgruntled. Russia, China, Iran, North Korea and any other authoritarian and power inspired country. Russia falls and the rest know they’re next. 

These nations were already aligned against the liberal status quo.

The Ukraine war has only made it more obvious.

[Alchopwn]

If China does try this, it will need to be very well hidden.  They certainly won't do so overtly, as the sanctions on China will destroy the country while it is still trying to recover from years of colossal mismanagement by Xi.  Xi attacked his political rivals who also happen to be China's rich, and that means he attacked China's ability to make money.  Now, too late and too little, Xi has realized his blunder, and come crawling to the USA in hopes of trying to normalize relations, but then there was the spy balloon nonsense.  China won't cope with being locked out of international markets, as it is a net importer of nearly everything. 

[Unusual Tournament]

1 hour ago, Alchopwn said:

If China does try this, it will need to be very well hidden.  They certainly won't do so overtly, as the sanctions on China will destroy the country while it is still trying to recover from years of colossal mismanagement by Xi.  Xi attacked his political rivals who also happen to be China's rich, and that means he attacked China's ability to make money.  Now, too late and too little, Xi has realized his blunder, and come crawling to the USA in hopes of trying to normalize relations, but then there was the spy balloon nonsense.  China won't cope with being locked out of international markets, as it is a net importer of nearly everything. 

U.S. China trade amounts to 700 billion dollars a year. I bet it would be easier, but not without pain, for the U.S. to trade with others. China would lose in a trade war - which I believe would precede any actual war. 
 

China - Russian partnership would attempt to displaces American power globally, both trade and military. On paper China has more to lose than either the U.S. or Russia. Russia is dead weight for now. Xi knows once Russia is taken apart, China is next. 
 

so I expect tacit Chinese support for Russia. Just enough to not bring down the wrath of America but enough for Russia to not lose

[Alchopwn]

1 hour ago, Unusual Tournament said:

China - Russian partnership would attempt to displaces American power globally, both trade and military. On paper China has more to lose than either the U.S. or Russia. Russia is dead weight for now. Xi knows once Russia is taken apart, China is next. 

Except that Russia's economy is a tiny fraction of the USA's economy.  Russia is now under 1.5 trillion. China allegedly is at 14 trillion.  USA is up to 21 trillion.  China would be allied to a corpse.  I suspect it is more likely for China to ultimately invade a defeated Russian Federation to secure those resources.  Propping Russia up could serve as a means of lulling Russia into a false sense of security, but China's GDP will collapse if it annoys the USA and gets sanctioned.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Alchopwn

[Unusual Tournament]

1 hour ago, Alchopwn said:

Except that Russia's economy is a tiny fraction of the USA's economy.  Russia is now under 1.5 trillion. China allegedly is at 14 trillion.  USA is up to 21 trillion.  China would be allied to a corpse.  I suspect it is more likely for China to ultimately invade a defeated Russian Federation to secure those resources.  Propping Russia up could serve as a means of lulling Russia into a false sense of security, but China's GDP will collapse if it annoys the USA and gets sanctioned.

Russian raw materials and energy are important. Nuclear weapons and military technologies all make Russia a lucrative partner for China. 

[Unusual Tournament]

Western leaders have reacted nervously to a Chinese peace plan for Ukraine due to be revealed this week, but cautiously welcomed the move as a first sign that China recognises the war cannot be regarded solely as a European affair.
 

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/18/chinese-peace-plan-for-ukraine-greeted-cautiously-by-the-west

[Unusual Tournament]

Joe Biden makes surprise first visit to Ukraine since start of war
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/biden-in-kyiv-zelensky-suprise-visit-b2285669.html?amp

[fred_mc]

If China do start delivering weapons to Russia there will be massive sanctions against China. That will be a big problem for the whole world. Pulling out of Russia was relatively easy but much of production and development in the world is in China so pulling out of China will be much more difficult, there would be even bigger problems than today with lack of components, medication etc :-( .

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

Joe Biden makes surprise first visit to Ukraine since start of war
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/biden-in-kyiv-zelensky-suprise-visit-b2285669.html?amp

I hope his handlers remembered to pack extra Depends...

[Unusual Tournament]

"We will face a world war if Russia unites with China," Zelensky said in an interview with Welt.

"I would like to have China on our side in this war, but this is impossible now. This week, there may be a revenge from Russia and the Chinese issue in it is extremely complex."

[Unusual Tournament]

Russia is changing tactics:

On the night of February 15-16, Russia launched a total of 36 cruise missiles from the air and sea. 16 of these missiles were intercepted by Ukrainian air defenses, announced Valery Zaluzny, Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

The strike deployed 12 Kh-101/Kh-555 air-launched cruise missiles, 8 Kalibr sea-based cruise missiles, 12 Kh-22 anti-ship cruise missiles, 3 Kh-59/31 guided missiles and an Onyx anti-ship missile. The missiles were launched from Russian Tu-22M3 and Tu-95MS bombers. They operated out of the Caspian Sea and the Kursk region. In addition, two Russian Su-35 fighter jets fired missiles from the temporarily occupied area of Melitopol.
 

This is on top of a recent attack on a Ukrainian airfield that left several Mig-29’s destroyed and the airbase disabled. 

[Unusual Tournament]

more about the Kh-22:
 

The Kh-22 cruises at speeds between M 3.5 and M 4.6 at altitudes of up to 40 km. Upon launch, the missile climbs to about 40 km, leaving the stratosphere, and then dives perpendicular to the target, making it extremely difficult to shoot down."

The big take away here is nations like Russia, China and America are fielding these super fast missiles that have the ability to defeat modern air defence systems. They’re expensive as b*****y, complicated and a real game changer for all future wars. 
 

In time systems will be found to defeat them. This is the nature of technology 

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Unusual Tournament

[Unusual Tournament]

The importance of expendable drones as opposed to high price MALE.
 

Russia has begun using reconnaissance drones and balloons equipped with corner reflectors to detect Ukrainian air defense installations and improve the effectiveness of missile strikes.

Use of cheap easily replaceable drones is changing the modern battlefield. Most of these drones have a shelf life of 1-5 missions but the value added to any attack is well worth it. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

22 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

Ukraine war: Blinken says China may give weapons to Russia

China is considering giving Russia weapons and ammunition for the Ukraine war, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64695042.amp

 

 

Is … is he giving them permission to give weapons to Russia? It’s worded like he’s giving permission….

[Black Red Devil]

19 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

…the danger here is a coalition of the disgruntled. Russia, China, Iran, North Korea and any other authoritarian and power inspired country. Russia falls and the rest know they’re next. 

Which amounts to about 30% of the richest economies in the world and most of that 30% is Chinese.  The other 70% is made up by the US, EU and western ally economies which have basically destroyed Xi's dreams of becoming the # 1 financial (and military?) superpower in the world through dubious initiatives such as the Belt and Road and Huawei after they realised these "projects" were not trade partnerships but Chinese infiltrating methods to control and expand. China's aggressive conduct in the South China Sea, Hong Kong, Taiwan together with constant theft of intellectual property attempts made Xi's plans even more evident.

Xi is taking a huge risk by taking sides with Russia's illegal invasion.  As it stands the Chinese economy is slowing down and facing collapse after its western customers (the richest in the world) have become fewer and fewer. 

Sure, severe sanctions on China could lead to the possibility the world could face a recession that could prolong for years but western govts will find alternatives.  China & co., not so sure.  My pennies are on the 70% becoming higher and crushing the 30% more and more in a slow and constant grip.

[Unusual Tournament]

UPDATE: Russian’s are closing around Bakhmut. Looks as if it will fall

 

[Alchopwn]

17 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

Russian raw materials and energy are important. Nuclear weapons and military technologies all make Russia a lucrative partner for China. 

That is only half true.  There is presently only the most pathetic rail infrastructure between Russia and China for transporting anything.  The issue of military technology between Russia and China has been a vexed issue for many years too.  China keeps buying a small sample of Russian equipment, then retro-engineering it and calling it Chinese.  The Chinese have tried the same nonsense on with US equipment, but China is still too technologically backwards to be able to realistically duplicate US military systems, so they produce "obsolete before it entered the field" equipment.  Russian energy is another matter, but it will take a decade for Russia and China  to complete what they need to make that trade a reality, and you can't help getting the feeling that both sides are planning to betray the other, while trying to anticipate what that betrayal will look like so they can counter it. 

[Alchopwn]

13 hours ago, and-then said:

I hope his handlers remembered to pack extra Depends...

That's a nice idea, he can send the extras to Poo Tin, who is going to need them soon.

[Unusual Tournament]

14 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

That is only half true.  There is presently only the most pathetic rail infrastructure between Russia and China for transporting anything.  The issue of military technology between Russia and China has been a vexed issue for many years too.  China keeps buying a small sample of Russian equipment, then retro-engineering it and calling it Chinese.  The Chinese have tried the same nonsense on with US equipment, but China is still too technologically backwards to be able to realistically duplicate US military systems, so they produce "obsolete before it entered the field" equipment.  Russian energy is another matter, but it will take a decade for Russia and China  to complete what they need to make that trade a reality, and you can't help getting the feeling that both sides are planning to betray the other, while trying to anticipate what that betrayal will look like so they can counter it. 

Half true is still true. World food production and fertilisers are predominantly Russian, Chinese, Ukrainian and Iranian. Discount this new Cold War at your own expense and prejudice 

[Alchopwn]

Just now, Unusual Tournament said:

Half true is still true. World food production and fertilisers are predominantly Russian, Chinese, Ukrainian and Iranian. Discount this new Cold War at your own expense and prejudice 

China doesn't actually produce enough food to feed itself.  It has been desperately buying up food during the pandemic, but has not had proper mechanisms for distributing it within the country, and then there was the national grain census that triggered massive silo fires as all the corrupt grain dealers conducted their "fire sale", to the point where people complained that if the census continued, there would be no more grain or silos.

It is true that Russia and China lead the world 1st and 2nd in fertilizer production, but the actual food production issue is another question altogether.  Cutting Russia and CHina out of the fertilizer markets will simply create a new boom economy while the world market adjusts.  It is a good time to invest I suspect.