'Deal is done': New NI Brexit deal reportedly struck

[Still Waters]

Breaking News: 

Quote

Sunak announces press conference later

Following on from reports Rishi Sunak has agreed a fresh Brexit deal - the prime minister has tweeted to give a slight update.

He says this afternoon he will hold a press conference with EU chief Ursula von der Leyen "on Northern Ireland".

He didn't give us a time - but stay with us and we will bring you the latest

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-64779415

[odas]

Good news. Let's hope for a normalization where all can benefit from.

[L.A.T.1961]

It will be interesting to see the detail as actual Windsor framework document is made public.

On the face of it there seems to be useful concessions made by EU if not on ECJ oversite. 

 

[pellinore]

Good news, let's hope the UK is less antagonistic towards the EU now, so we can start re-building our economy and the long process of rejoining the EU.

[L.A.T.1961]

4 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Good news, let's hope the UK is less antagonistic towards the EU now, so we can start re-building our economy and the long process of rejoining the EU.

This deal is a recognition by the EU that there will be no new EU membership for the UK. 

Had Brussels thought there was a tiny chance of a UK U turn then the original NIP would have been insisted upon as a device to force the UK back into the fold.

It was only after it became apparent, with the UK internal market bill and refusal to put in place customs checks, originally insisted on by Brussels, that they had their minds changed.

And nothing to do with how nice Sunak is with Von D Leyen and the EU. Who will now take the credit, should it be accepted by all sides in UK.

 

[pellinore]

4 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

This deal is a recognition by the EU that there will be no new EU membership for the UK. 

Had Brussels thought there was a tiny chance of a UK U turn then the original NIP would have been insisted upon as a device to force the UK back into the fold.

It was only after it became apparent, with the UK internal market bill and refusal to put in place customs checks, originally insisted on by Brussels, that they had their minds changed.

And nothing to do with how nice Sunak is with Von D Leyen and the EU. Who will now take the credit, should it be accepted by all sides in UK.

 

The deal is essentially that offered by the EU originally. They can't and won't deviate from ECJ oversight of the Single Market. Which is why Sunak will have a hard sell, and why Johnson avoided the issue by agreeing to it and then pretending he hadn't agreed. The real reason the ERG object to it is in this short article:

..it exposes how much better off the whole UK would be had it stayed in the single market. Nowhere was “get Brexit done” defined, as the leave originators had no idea what they wanted beyond “out” – so they just keep demanding an ever purer and harder Brexit. Joining the European Free Trade Association or staying in the single market were much better options, admitted now by some leading leavers such as Daniel Hannan. But most extreme leavers in denial about Brexit’s damage have nowhere to go, so they keep banging their heads harder against the walls they built. At last, a protocol deal, but we are no further away from Brexit’s poisonous legacy | Polly Toynbee | The Guardian

There is no doubt we will rejoin the EU eventually. Why on earth would the UK population put up with becoming poorer as compared to our European neighbours? We haven't 'regained' anything through Brexit- all forecast are for lower economic growth, immigration has stayed at the same level, boat crossings have shot up, and we are damaging our farming, fishing and manufacturing industries and becoming more reliant on over-stretched supply lines.

I get no pleasure from watching the Brexit debacle unfold- I am also affected by higher prices, less choice, and less freedom of movement.

Edited February 27, 2023 by pellinore

[pellinore]

7 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

It will be interesting to see the detail as actual Windsor framework document is made public.

On the face of it there seems to be useful concessions made by EU if not on ECJ oversite. 

 

Steve Baker has suddenly recovered sanity and realises that access to the single market is what we all need in the UK. Maybe the whole ERG will follow him:

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by pellinore

[Ozymandias]

About time!

This is substantially the same compromise deal the EU offered the UK in 2021. Back then the UK government was too bloody-mindedly invested in its Brexit religion to negotiate on the basis of it.

If window-dressing ('style over substance') is more important than anything else, then calling it the Windsor Framework should make it more palatable to the DUP than, say, the Sefcovic Solution.

Let's get on with it!    

[pellinore]

20 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

This deal is a recognition by the EU that there will be no new EU membership for the UK. 

Had Brussels thought there was a tiny chance of a UK U turn then the original NIP would have been insisted upon as a device to force the UK back into the fold.

It was only after it became apparent, with the UK internal market bill and refusal to put in place customs checks, originally insisted on by Brussels, that they had their minds changed.

And nothing to do with how nice Sunak is with Von D Leyen and the EU. Who will now take the credit, should it be accepted by all sides in UK.

 

Sunak says NI is uniquely privileged to have access to both the UK market and the EU market. Exactly the same as we had until three years ago.

When even a Brexiter PM can see the unique advantages of being part of the SM, rejoining is on it's way.

(btw, I think you are referring to the NI Protocol Bill, not the internal market bill, which would have sparked a trade war which the UK would lose, and custom checkpoints will be put in place. The EU hasn't backed down, they have got what they originally proposed- it would have be illegal for any other outcome to be agreed).

 

[pellinore]

48 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

About time!

This is substantially the same compromise deal the EU offered the UK in 2021. Back then the UK government was too bloody-mindedly invested in its Brexit religion to negotiate on the basis of it.

If window-dressing ('style over substance') is more important than anything else, then calling it the Windsor Framework should make it more palatable to the DUP than, say, the Sefcovic Solution.

Let's get on with it!    

Brexit is over. There were no benefits, all we have done over the last few years is try to avoid the worst effects by not implementing it. The Great Tomato Shortage has shown the foolishness of cutting yourself off from a huge market on your doorstep to try to establish supply chains around the world instead.

Wait till we build the custom points and employ the thousands of staff to check imports (which we have to do at some stage) and the EU imposes biometric checks for all third countries, then we will see real hardship.

No one wants to see the UK destroying itself; what the government (whether Tory or Labour) has to do now is start the process of re-joining without Brexiters losing too much face.

Edited February 28, 2023 by pellinore

[L.A.T.1961]

8 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Brexit is over. There were no benefits, all we have done over the last few years is try to avoid the worst effects by not implementing it. The Great Tomato Shortage has shown the foolishness of cutting yourself off from a huge market on your doorstep to try to establish supply chains around the world instead.

Wait till we build the custom points and employ the thousands of staff to check imports (which we have to do at some stage) and the EU imposes biometric checks for all third countries, then we will see real hardship.

No one wants to see the UK destroying itself; what the government (whether Tory or Labour) has to do now is start the process of re-joining without Brexiters losing too much face.

We shall see. 

[L.A.T.1961]

19 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Sunak says NI is uniquely privileged to have access to both the UK market and the EU market. Exactly the same as we had until three years ago.

When even a Brexiter PM can see the unique advantages of being part of the SM, rejoining is on it's way.

(btw, I think you are referring to the NI Protocol Bill, not the internal market bill, which would have sparked a trade war which the UK would lose, and custom checkpoints will be put in place. The EU hasn't backed down, they have got what they originally proposed- it would have be illegal for any other outcome to be agreed).

 

Sunak is trying to sell the deal to the DUP, the idea is new concessions by the EU will equal, or outweigh, a continued final say in NI law making by ECJ. 

And he is right in saying its the only case where a third party takes control of a democratic independent country.

I am sure if the US wanted a trade deal with the EU they would hand legal control of Florida to Brussels to protect their single market.

Not. 

 

[pellinore]

1 hour ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

Sunak is trying to sell the deal to the DUP, the idea is new concessions by the EU will equal, or outweigh, a continued final say in NI law making by ECJ. 

And he is right in saying its the only case where a third party takes control of a democratic independent country.

I am sure if the US wanted a trade deal with the EU they would hand legal control of Florida to Brussels to protect their single market.

Not. 

 

Here we go again: unelected bureaucrats and sovereignty.

Who chose Sunak as PM? Did you have a say? Who elected David Frost and made him our chief Brexit negotiator? Anyone?

Go on then, name three laws that the UK passed while we were a member of the EU  that you found onerous and are glad to see the back of. No, I'll make it easy for you- name just one law that the UK adopted while a member of the EU that was causing you difficulty and you are glad to be freed from.

[L.A.T.1961]

On 2/28/2023 at 4:11 PM, pellinore said:

Here we go again: unelected bureaucrats and sovereignty.

Who chose Sunak as PM? Did you have a say? Who elected David Frost and made him our chief Brexit negotiator? Anyone?

Go on then, name three laws that the UK passed while we were a member of the EU  that you found onerous and are glad to see the back of. No, I'll make it easy for you- name just one law that the UK adopted while a member of the EU that was causing you difficulty and you are glad to be freed from.

You will have to talk to the US president or similar to see if Sunak is considered legit. 

First law change I came across. Took around 30 sec.

Sunak forces Bank of England to promote City as post-Brexit financial hub. 

The Bank of England has admitted it will be forced to promote the City of London as a post-Brexit financial hub after Rishi Sunak rammed through new competitiveness rules. Vicky Saporta, executive director at Threadneedle Street, said the Government’s decision to make regulators promote international competitiveness, rather than just protect financial and monetary stability, will significantly change how the Bank’s Prudential Regulation Authority (PRA) operates.

The PRA announced plans to reduce restrictions on small lenders in an effort to take advantage of post-Brexit freedoms. The regulator is relaxing rules governing how much capital small lenders must hold, as well as regulations on disclosure requirements and pay policies.

Ms Saporta: “These are changes we could not have made whilst we were in the EU. They are a down-payment on our commitment to use our new powers to tailor rules and to make the UK a better place to operate a financial firm, without compromising on safety.”  

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/sunak-forces-bank-of-england-to-promote-city-as-post-brexit-financial-hub/ar-AA17ZraK

 

The idea that no changes have been made is wrong but there is no motive by some sections of the media to promote the issue.

The old misdirection method of asking for specific changes in law, when there would have to be specific knowledge of areas of UK/EU law and practices, will not get you far here.  

 

[pellinore]

7 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

You will have to talk to the US president or similar to see if Sunak is considered legit. 

First law change I came across. Took around 30 sec.

Sunak forces Bank of England to promote City as post-Brexit financial hub. 

The Bank of England has admitted it will be forced to promote the City of London as a post-Brexit financial hub after Rishi Sunak rammed through new competitiveness rules. Vicky Saporta, executive director at Threadneedle Street, said the Government’s decision to make regulators promote international competitiveness, rather than just protect financial and monetary stability, will significantly change how the Bank’s Prudential Regulation Authority (PRA) operates.

The PRA announced plans to reduce restrictions on small lenders in an effort to take advantage of post-Brexit freedoms. The regulator is relaxing rules governing how much capital small lenders must hold, as well as regulations on disclosure requirements and pay policies.

Ms Saporta: “These are changes we could not have made whilst we were in the EU. They are a down-payment on our commitment to use our new powers to tailor rules and to make the UK a better place to operate a financial firm, without compromising on safety.”  

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/sunak-forces-bank-of-england-to-promote-city-as-post-brexit-financial-hub/ar-AA17ZraK

 

The idea that no changes have been made is wrong but there is no motive by some sections of the media to promote the issue.

The old misdirection method of asking for specific changes in law, when there would have to be specific knowledge of areas of UK/EU law and practices, will not get you far here.  

 

And that change has changed your life for the better? That's why you support Brexit? You have invested big in the money markets? (When it is a fact that Paris is now Europe's share capital, and Amsterdam is taking part of the City's business as a result of Brexit).

Edited March 1, 2023 by pellinore

[pellinore]

This is why people voted for Brexit:

 

[L.A.T.1961]

1 minute ago, pellinore said:

And that change has changed your life for the better? That's why you support Brexit?

It might do if banks become easier to run and fund. Cheaper mortgages or better savings rates ?

It will also encourage banks to set up in the UK creating some more jobs.

A rising tide affects all boats. 

 

I supported brexit to remove one top layer of unelected bureaucrats and force UK law makers do the job they are paid for.

 

[L.A.T.1961]

5 minutes ago, pellinore said:

This is why people voted for Brexit:

 

Farage did not run the brexit campaign.

Labour MP Gisela Stuart served as chairman and Leader of the Vote Leave Campaign Committee as Co-Convenor with Michael Gove MP, of the Conservatives.

Farage did not lead us anywhere, only put pressure on the Gov to belatedly hold an in out vote on EU membership.

Something originally promised by Blair. 

[pellinore]

14 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

It might do if banks become easier to run and fund. Cheaper mortgages or better savings rates ?

It will also encourage banks to set up in the UK creating some more jobs.

A rising tide affects all boats. 

 

I supported brexit to remove one top layer of unelected bureaucrats and force UK law makers do the job they are paid for.

 

So far, all the indications are that we are not going to get cheaper mortgages or better savings rates. Quite the reverse, as our economy will perform less well than when we were in the SM. And changes in the City won't directly affect the ordinary person's finances in an appreciable and beneficial way. In fact, Liz Truss introduced a Brexity budget which cam close to bankrupting the country.

Anyway, are you seriously suggesting you support Brexit because you have been, all these years, concerned about City regulation, and your life is better now that that seems possible?

[pellinore]

12 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

Farage did not run the brexit campaign.

Labour MP Gisela Stuart served as chairman and Leader of the Vote Leave Campaign Committee as Co-Convenor with Michael Gove MP, of the Conservatives.

Farage did not lead us anywhere, only put pressure on the Gov to belatedly hold an in out vote on EU membership.

Something originally promised by Blair. 

I'm just pointing out that people a lot of people supported Brexit to make their everyday lives better, not worse. Not you, obviously, you were concerned about taking back control of financial regulation. I can't say I ever lost any sleep over the way City financiers conducted their business. 

[Still Waters]

Boris Johnson has said he will find it "very difficult" to vote for Rishi Sunak's new Brexit deal for Northern Ireland.

The former prime minister said the deal was "not about the UK taking back control".

It is the first time he has commented since Mr Sunak unveiled the Windsor agreement on Monday.

The deal with the EU aims to fix post-Brexit trade problems in Northern Ireland.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64823710