Joan Tollifson on the relation of addiction to capitalism-consumerism

[Ajay0]

An insightful article by Joan Tollifson on the nature of addiction, on how capitalism focusses on creating desires and addressing them rather than needs, creating an artificial psychological sense of lack in the process and thereby pleasure addictions...

https://www.joantollifson.com/writing9.html

Quote

It should be noted that seeking pleasure and avoiding pain are survival mechanisms that make perfect sense in a purely biological context, but no other animal smokes and drinks itself to death. Obviously, what begins as a natural survival mechanism can get in some way displaced, misdirected or exaggerated in human beings with our complex capacity for imagination and conceptual abstraction.

Capitalist-consumer society, which is a creation of the human mind, actually cultivates addiction. Paul Mazer, a Wall Street banker working for Lehman Brothers in the 1930s, was quoted in a documentary as having said: "We must shift America from a needs – to a desires – culture. People must be trained to desire, to want new things, even before the old have been entirely consumed…Man's desires must overshadow his needs." And I believe it was the current CEO of Apple whom I heard in an interview describe their mission as "creating something you didn't know you wanted that once you have it, you can't imagine living without."

Capitalism and the advertising industry have devoted themselves to creating a sense of lack in virtually every aspect of modern life from politics to spirituality, and then offering to fill it with things we don't really need that won't really make us happy. It’s no surprise that addiction is a major problem. - Joan Tollifson

 

 

[joseraul]

Good post.

Also humans evolved to live in smaller social groups and work to their individual strengths to contribute to the survival of the tribe/group and then similarly into older civilizations.

Modern civilizations and hyper individualism has eroded that sense of a big family unit, makes people chase money/education in far away places, dropping your regional accent and leaving your family behind.

These cultures, and then the concept of capital in itself are very anti human systems. Wish we could do better.

[XenoFish]

Why is this in the spirituality section?

[Alchopwn]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Why is this in the spirituality section?

Oh that's easy XF.  It references a central teaching in Buddhism, namely the origin and destructiveness of desire; and how to identify and overcome desire.

If we then look at this narrative in terms of Capitalism, we see that the marketing departments are basically in the job of making people desire things.  Of course a good Buddhist doesn't fall for such nonsensical traps, but a communist will stand up and holler about the injustice inherrent in the system, rather than trying to understand that communism does this too, and we all have to liberate ourselves, especially from "isms", including Buddhism.

[XenoFish]

48 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

Oh that's easy XF.  It references a central teaching in Buddhism, namely the origin and destructiveness of desire; and how to identify and overcome desire.

If we then look at this narrative in terms of Capitalism, we see that the marketing departments are basically in the job of making people desire things.  Of course a good Buddhist doesn't fall for such nonsensical traps, but a communist will stand up and holler about the injustice inherrent in the system, rather than trying to understand that communism does this too, and we all have to liberate ourselves, especially from "isms", including Buddhism.

So an anti-capitalism thread in the religion section. Jesus Christ

I like Capitalism.

Edited March 2 by XenoFish

[Piney]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

So an anti-capitalism thread in the religion section. Jesus Christ

I like Capitalism.

It enabled me to restore my economic position and live comfortably again and because I took no help except borrow tools and equipment from a Haliburton buddy with the agreement to purchase it, there was no socialism involved.  

I think the OP gets consumerism and capitalism confused though, because I still live simple and practice minimalism.

Edited March 2 by Piney
brain fart

[XenoFish]

17 minutes ago, Piney said:

I think the OP gets consumerism and capitalism confused though because I still live simple and practice minimalism.

I agree and I'm about the same. Best way to get "rich" is to spend less. 

[+razman]

I'll say one thing about addiction, you could stop something 20 years ago and not think back about it since , but then one day you find yourself dreaming about it. So its still in there somewhere.

[Alchopwn]

13 hours ago, XenoFish said:

So an anti-capitalism thread in the religion section. Jesus Christ

I like Capitalism.

Actually Jesus didn't like Capitalism, and was semi-terrorist towards the Banking Sector.  Mind you, I'm not saying he was correct.

11 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I agree and I'm about the same. Best way to get "rich" is to spend less. 

Provided that the pennies you save are invested cleverly there are worse paths to wealth.

[+razman]

Just now, Alchopwn said:

Actually Jesus didn't like Capitalism, and was semi-terrorist towards the Banking Sector.

Where does it say this?

[Alchopwn]

Just now, razman said:

Where does it say this?

Is it not easier for a hawser to go thru the eye of a needle that nor a rich man to enter heaven?  Also the temple tantrum, wherein Jesus physically attacked financial workers in their legally required place of operation where they were exchanging international coinage for traditional Jewish shekels for ritual observation purposes.

Also, if you have nothing but the shirt on your back. you should trade it for a sword.

Edited March 3 by Alchopwn

[XenoFish]

34 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

Provided that the pennies you save are invested cleverly there are worse paths to wealth.

Well a ginger can't sell their soul to the devil. 

[+razman]

41 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

Is it not easier for a hawser to go thru the eye of a needle that nor a rich man to enter heaven?  Also the temple tantrum, wherein Jesus physically attacked financial workers in their legally required place of operation where they were exchanging international coinage for traditional Jewish shekels for ritual observation purposes.

Also, if you have nothing but the shirt on your back. you should trade it for a sword.

Right but its a stretch to say he was a semi terrorist towards the banking sector and against capitalism. To me i see it as " Is it not easier for a hawser to go thru the eye of a needle that nor a rich man to enter heaven " , i see as a cause and effect statement , that if someone is chasing riches , then he is distracted from finding god or spirit in him. In the temple , i figure he was not liking the idea of the buying and selling in the temple itself. I mean he did work as a carpenter as far as i remember. Plus there is a lot of other statements around this that make a fuller picture, that is , if one believes everything the bible says. For all we know this could have been edited by the church in those days , to keep the flock going to them instead of finding their own ways and keeping the wealth in the church. In and around your above statements he also mentions to his disciples hinting at they should carry nothing and depend on god for provision, yet it is ascertained that jesus was a skilled worker , maybe a mason or carpenter. Are those not ironic things?

Edited March 3 by razman

[Alchopwn]

13 minutes ago, razman said:

Right but its a stretch to say he was a semi terrorist towards the banking sector 

Please read my comments properly.  I said he was a semi terrorist only against the banking sector.  This is based on Jesus physically attacking financial workers with a whip.   If you or I walked into a bank and started attacking people with a whip we would certainly be arrested, charged, tried, and likely jailed for a felony.  If it was determined that our acts were ideologically motivated (which Jesus' acts certainly were) then the possibility of a terrorism charge could apply.  I doubt such a charge could be made to stick, but the idea that this was a politically motivated attack is certain within scripture.

13 minutes ago, razman said:

To me i see it as " Is it not easier for a hawser to go thru the eye of a needle that nor a rich man to enter heaven " , i see as a cause and effect statement , that if someone is chasing riches , then he is distracted from finding god or spirit in him.

Not so.  Jesus speaks for an entire movement, and allegedly for God.  The context is that a wealthy man wants to join him, but Jesus tells him to give up all his worldly possessions.  Now that is pretty stupid.  Worldly possessions are useful tools, that could forward the cause of Jesus tremendously, and the rich man knows that, but you do that by managing and using the wealth, not giving it all away.  The rich man could have been a great asset to Jesus, even if he wasn't "disciple material", but instead Jesus chooses to make an example of him, and of wealthy people in general.  The message is WEALTH IS BAD, as it keeps you from being godly.  So what would Jesus say about Capitalism?  Nothing good.  I think Jesus was more of a commie...  A person who has nothing and wants to share it with everybody. 

13 minutes ago, razman said:

 i figure he was not liking the idea of the buying and selling in the temple itself. I mean he did work as a carpenter as far as i remember.

The politics of the temple tantrum is far more involved than you suspect, and as it could fill a page just to summarize,  I won't ennumerate the details here,  but the simple fact is, Jesus attacked financial workers in their legal place of operation, while also saying to "render unto Caesar what is Caesar, and render unto god what is gods".  Arguably a shekel, being the coin of the Jews, was gods coin, just as the Libram, Sestertii, and Denarii of the romans was the coin of Caesar.  Jesus contradicts himself.

Also, a carpenter back then was effectively an Architect, and not a typical skilled blue collar laborer the way we might suspect today.  Jesus was not lower class, as he is often portrayed.  He is a Ben David, and thus a political player.  I also think he died for his own sins, much later at Masada.  The Romans often used crucifixion as a short term torture, nailing people up at midday, and allowing them to be cut down at sunset.  Note also, that the Garden of Gethsemane was not a public place in Jerusalem but a private garden where a private crucifixion could be held.  The public perception that all crucifixions were lethal is wrong. 

Edited March 3 by Alchopwn

[+razman]

11 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

The message is WEALTH IS BAD, as it keeps you from being godly.

I look at this differently , for example , if i am wealthy i have more time and freedom to think and contemplate god and whatever's within me , and perhaps more money to travel and visit holy shrines if i want . Otherwise if i have to chase a 9 to 5 job all my life , i am mostly too busy during work, and too tired when i get home. Some people are wealthy and do great charity with it as well. One only knows what the church would do without wealth, look at the Vatican and how much wealth revolves around it.

Edited March 3 by razman

[Dejarma]

14 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Oh that's easy XF.  It references a central teaching in Buddhism, namely the origin and destructiveness of desire; and how to identify and overcome desire.

surely it depends on what it is you desire

[Alchopwn]

3 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

surely it depends on what it is you desire

Good work.  Most people have to work that one thru with austerities before they arrive at the correct answer.

[Alchopwn]

7 minutes ago, razman said:

I look at this differently , for example , if i am wealthy i have more time and freedom to think and contemplate god and whatever's within me , and perhaps more money to travel and visit holy shrines if i want . 

Sadly, that is what is called "cherry picking".  You are following what is convenient, not what Jesus taught.

Edited March 3 by Alchopwn

[+razman]

6 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

Sadly, that is what is called "cherry picking".  You are following what is convenient, not what Jesus taught.

It's not cherry picking to me , it's common sense. Of course i am someone who is not religious , but i am spiritual, Yet , i wouldn't take anything the bible says without a grain of salt. Then again at the same time , the bible was written about a time long ago , and it is a different time and world today , so who knows.

Edited March 3 by razman

[Dejarma]

5 minutes ago, razman said:

i am someone who is not religious , but i am spiritual,

what does that mean?

[+razman]

Just now, Dejarma said:

what does that mean?

It means i believe in spirit and look within me , but i follow no particular religious teachings .

[Alchopwn]

1 minute ago, razman said:

It's not cherry picking to me , it's common sense. Of course i am someone who is not religious , but i am spiritual, Yet , i wouldn't take anything the bible says without a grain of salt. Then again at the same time , the bible was written about a time long ago , and it is a different time and world today , so who knows.

Many if not all Christians are cherry pickers.  Jesus' teaching were not based on common sense, but on divine revelation.  As to this notion of "spirituality" it is one of the most bandied about words in English, but its meaning is obscured now, and was likely an eccentric meaning back in the day, based on the idea that "breath", without which people die, was a connection to the god of the wind, which was invisible but moved things around.  Spooky.

[Dejarma]

1 minute ago, razman said:

It means i believe in spirit

spirit? nope, i'm still confused.. what does that mean? define spirite

[+razman]

Just now, Dejarma said:

spirit? nope, i'm still confused.. what does that mean? define spirite

Defining spirit could be easier said than done , but it could be like , energy , wisdom , soul , light , conciousness , or any other numbers of ways.

[Dejarma]

Just now, razman said:

Defining spirit could be easier said than done , but it could be like , energy , wisdom , soul , light , conciousness , or any other numbers of ways.

you used the word 'believe'

if i throw a wine bottle hard at a brick wall & it smashes.. i don't 'believe' it's smashed= it is smashed