What Is a Real Man?

[zep73]

3 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

no no i'm not avin it mate!!!! you came in here shouting your mouth off== am i wrong to assume you understand the meaning of this thread now?- so where is your scientific opinion on it-- i'm all ears!

The one I wrote in post 19.

[Dejarma]

1 minute ago, zep73 said:

The one I wrote in post 19.

yeah according to you in post 19 you're going against the thread.. so what is the thread about then, what are you going against?

you're getting a little tedious now sunshine 

[zep73]

3 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

yeah according to you in post 19 you're going against the thread.. so what is the thread about then, what are you going against?

you're getting a little tedious now sunshine 

At that time I was unsure what your goal was, so I initiated the post with a reservation. Just ignore that, and tell me what you think of my analysis.

Btw, I never went in here "shouting". I came in calmly but a bit unsure what your goal was. That's it.

Edited March 4, 2023 by zep73

[Dejarma]

1 minute ago, zep73 said:

Just ignore that, and tell me what you think of my analysis.

yeah, i agree.. but do you agree the 'WHY they are the way they are' is irrelevant?

[zep73]

2 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

yeah, i agree.. but do you agree the 'WHY they are the way they are' is irrelevant?

No, it's not irrelevant that you sometimes have to fight your true nature to be a good person. But it is important to do it.

[Dejarma]

1 minute ago, zep73 said:

No, it's not irrelevant that you sometimes have to fight your true nature to be a good person. But it is important to do it.

no i don't get that??? but no worries= have fun

[zep73]

2 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

have fun

Thanks. We don't think the same way, so sometimes it's better to not keep banging heads. No harm done letting it go. Have a nice discussion with the others, mate.

[Dejarma]

3 minutes ago, zep73 said:

Thanks. We don't think the same way, so sometimes it's better to not keep banging heads. No harm done letting it go. Have a nice discussion with the others, mate.

so post 19 was your scientific opinion was it? oh joy...

i look forward to more

[zep73]

Just now, Dejarma said:

so post 19 was your scientific opinion was it? oh joy...

i look forward to more

A simplified, reader friendly version.

What's with the badly hidden sarcasm? Do you have a need to triumph somehow?

[Dejarma]

3 minutes ago, zep73 said:

A simplified, reader friendly version.

What's with the badly hidden sarcasm? Do you have a need to triumph somehow?

come on mate.. you started the sarcasm with post 17 imo

[zep73]

1 minute ago, Dejarma said:

come on mate.. you started the sarcasm with post 17 imo

I could have chosen a more polite approach. Sorry.

[Dejarma]

Just now, zep73 said:

I could have chosen a more polite approach. Sorry.

polite approach?? what the fek does that mean? if you have something meaningful/ interesting to say then i'm all ears.. really

[zep73]

3 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

polite approach?? what the fek does that mean? if you have something meaningful/ interesting to say then i'm all ears.. really

If you truly want to discuss this with me, you could start by criticising my post 19. What do you disagree with? Do you have anything to add? This asking for more is a bit arrogant.

[Dejarma]

4 minutes ago, zep73 said:

If you truly want to discuss this with me, you could start by criticising my post 19. What do you disagree with? Do you have anything to add? This asking for more is a bit arrogant.

I absolutely totally agree with your post 19 100%.. Who wouldn't? Maybe the Taliban?  IMO you're stating the bleeding obvious with regard to the western world approach

my point is those who do not see it like this are not real men

[XenoFish]

I say it's down to genetics. XY says it all. If it isn't that then it isn't a real man. 

[Kenemet]

16 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

 The last time I have written code I was using Pascal, are you familiar with that old language?

I am, in fact.  Along with a host of other forgotten code languages.  Fortran, anyone?  PICK?

[Kenemet]

I'm going to step in with a "moment of science" here.

The idea of man/manhood is simply "whatever role your society says an adult male should take."

Let me explain:

I have a son - but when he was three days old, although he was genetically MALE he was not a MAN.  He couldn't vote, couldn't buy liquor, couldn't drive, etc.  Once he magically turned 18 years old, he could participate in "things that men do in our society" (like enlist in the Navy, which he did.)  

In ancient Egypt, he would have been a "man" at age 14 or so (and able to marry and start his own household.)

He would not be a "man" to the Zulu nation of 200 years ago because he hasn't killed any lions (test of manhood.)   He wouldn't be a "man" in Spartan society, either, since he was raised by his family and didn't go out to kill a slave/servant when he was a teen and hasn't bothered to take on a young man as his sexual partner and trainee (which, yes, was a part of manhood in Sparta.  I can't tell you how funny it is for a historian to see some of these hormonal American men shout "I Am Sparta!" inspired by the "manliness" of a film... and unaware of just what was REALLY involved.)

So "man" and "manliness" are what the society you're raised in says it is.

There's no "universal metric" that says "this person is a man" that every single culture, civilization, and group would agree on.

 

We *CAN* talk about "what measures make a male more successful in his society" and "what standards a society holds currently (as opposed to the historical standards)" and possibly "what SHOULD be the standards for a society."  Those are meaningful conversations.  But "manliness" in and of itself is too fluid in meaning and changes depending on what country and religion and culture you belong to.

 

[Kenemet]

3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I say it's down to genetics. XY says it all. If it isn't that then it isn't a real man. 

What about XYY or XXY?  Or any of the other variations? https://genetic.org/variations/

[Kenemet]

By the way, the "list of alpha male characteristics" (of which there are many such lists) is actually a "Barnum statement" effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect

Here's an example.  Most of us (men and women) could answer "yes" to most of these ideas: https://www.momjunction.com/articles/alpha-male-traits_00750277/  In fact, *I* pass the "alpha male test" and I can assure you that I'm not now nor have ever been a male.  Or lesbian.

Would society be better if we all adopted the "alpha male traits"?  Kinda depends on how they're interpreted.  That "behaves as a gentleman" can go too far -- one site I saw (and can't find now) said something about a real man orders dinner for them both when they go on a date.  Modern etiquette, however, says this is a huge mistake and that most women prefer to speak to the waiter and order their own dinner (source: https://bestlifeonline.com/dinner-date-etiquette-news) And frankly, a guy ordering dinner for me is likely to raise my hackles.

Yes, at one time it was fine (waiters wouldn't bother looking at the woman; they would always address the man) but things have changed.  I like the new way better.

I prefer a society without "defined roles" for the sexes.  Such things are WAY too limiting, frankly, and not that healthy for a society.

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

3 hours ago, Kenemet said:

I am, in fact.  Along with a host of other forgotten code languages.  Fortran, anyone?  PICK?

I never was an expert but that’s the only language besides MS Quick Basis I ever worked with. It appears you a programmer?

[spartan max2]

2 hours ago, Kenemet said:

I prefer a society without "defined roles" for the sexes.  Such things are WAY too limiting, frankly, and not that healthy for a society.

That probably why so many of the younger generation are saying F it to the whole thing and identifying as non-binary 

Edited March 4, 2023 by spartan max2

[Kenemet]

2 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

I never was an expert but that’s the only language besides MS Quick Basis I ever worked with. It appears you a programmer?

I was indeed.  Worked on a lot of Big Iron (and on pc's, too)

[Grim Reaper 6]

11 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

I was indeed.  Worked on a lot of Big Iron (and on pc's, too)

In 1984 the US Government entered a contract with WANG Computers. I was working in a G-3 Shop when we received our Wang Personal Computer. The dam thing was Command Prompt and no one in the office had ever used a computer before. Since I was the lowest ranking guy in the office they sent me to a two week class on post to learn how to use it. I believe the thing had a 286 processor and used MS DOS 2.1, it had very limited Ram, all data storage was for some odd reason was stored on 5.25 floppy, not a 3.5 Floppy. This is where I was introduced to MS basic and Pascal in both cases I was sent back to school to learn these languages. But, the last time I used a computer language was during the late 1980s, like I said in a previous post I am no expert.

Do you remember these old Wang Personal Computers?

Below is the model Wang Computer I worked with.

[Kenemet]

2 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

In 1984 the US Government entered a contract with WANG Computers. I was working in a G-3 Shop when we received our Wang Personal Computer. The dam thing was Command Prompt and no one in the office had ever used a computer before. Since I was the lowest ranking guy in the office they sent me to a two week class on post to learn how to use it. I believe the thing had a 286 processor and used MS DOS 2.1, it had very limited Ram, all data storage was for some odd reason was stored on 5.25 floppy, not a 3.5 Floppy. This is where I was introduced to MS basic and Pascal in both cases I was sent back to school to learn these languages. But, the last time I used a computer language was during the late 1980s, like I said in a previous post I am no expert.

Do you remember these old Wang Personal Computers?

Below is the model Wang Computer I worked with.

Yep!

I worked on computers two generations earlier, with the 8 inch floppy drives... and assembler.  Gawds help me, assembler.  I was terrible at it and moved to other languages as soon as I could!

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

Yep!

I worked on computers two generations earlier, with the 8 inch floppy drives... and assembler.  Gawds help me, assembler.  I was terrible at it and moved to other languages as soon as I could!

Well your knowledge far exceeds mine, but it is nice to talk with someone who knows what I am talking about. Like, I said my experience with computers and languages started in 1984 with the Wang PC. When I bring this up today most people say what Company!

I think the Wang PC was one of first real Personal Computers, is that right?

Thanks for the conversation!

Edited March 5, 2023 by Grim Reaper 6