The Spiritual Path is Scientific.

[Crazy Horse]

2 hours ago, Guyver said:

1. Causality is not a science per se, it’s just an observable fact.

2.  I don’t know why you would want or need science to validate your spiritual path.  “Spirit” is not measurable by any scientific instrumentation and it is not even verified as a real thing.  A spiritual path can be anything a person decides it to be.

3. Having inner peace, tranquility, happiness, etc….seems like an unnatural goal.  This world is harsh and the struggle is real.  One may say this is what we were designed to live like, and what you offer is a happy dream.

It isn't about having science validate ones spiritual path, but more, setting/applying ones spiritual path, in a scientific manner.

The spiritual path is about experimentation..

Taking what works, and dropping everything else.

[Crazy Horse]

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

At this point I am actually good with physical science and spiritual science remaining fairly separate as the beyond the physical is still not within the domain of mainstream science. What I don’t like is an arrogant physical science attitude (Scientism).
 

I learn from both. Spiritual science is though more important to me as it more understands the meaning and purpose of life and the ways to act in accordance with that purpose and how to dwell in peace, love and serenity.

Yes, absolutely..

But, all I was really trying to say, was, that one may set about their Spiritual Quest, in a scientific manner.

But for this to work, the candidate must have some intelligence, mindfulness, honesty, courage, dignity, compassion, and integrity..

Then, from moment to moment, one may have an idea, or just a feeling, one may try it, test it, and one may see the result, in real time, from moment to moment learning and observing.

Patterns are seen, and the Matrix exspossed.

 

[Crazy Horse]

2 hours ago, zep73 said:

 

Science is rationalism, analysis, measurement, evidence, repetition and theory. It is about as unspiritual as sandpaper.

And what's to stop a seeker, applying those things to his spiritual journey?

If Enlightenment is the goal, then seeking a path from those spiritual guides who have gone before, adopting what works, and dropping what doesn't, one refines their pathway until the Self is Realised.

This is my life, and you have no right to tell me I cannot do this.

[+Hammerclaw]

3 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Yes, absolutely..

But, all I was really trying to say, was, that one may set about their Spiritual Quest, in a scientific manner.

But for this to work, the candidate must have some intelligence, mindfulness, honesty, courage, dignity, compassion, and integrity..

Then, from moment to moment, one may have an idea, or just a feeling, one may try it, test it, and one may see the result, in real time, from moment to moment learning and observing.

Patterns are seen, and the Matrix exspossed.

 

You can bullsh&t yourself to your heart's content, but that isn't science, it's art. So, do everyone a favor and stick your bullsh&t back up where you found it. 

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

This is my life, and you have no right to tell me I cannot do this.

Yes you're right. You can follow your path. However that doesn't make it correct and it also doesn't mean anyone cares. 

[jmccr8]

5 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

But you cant separate the two either, whether one believes in Spirit or not, is irrelevant.

You may not believe in GOD, but GOD believes in you.

Hi Crazy Horse

And just how does god express that belief in you?

[jmccr8]

5 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Ok, calm down.

So, do you want to find a deep and lasting inner peace?

Hi Crazy Horse

It is your subjective opinion that people that do not entertain a god do not have inner peace. You don’t demonstrate that you have inner peace if you did you wouldn’t give the appearance of needing our agreement to validate your beliefs.

[XenoFish]

8 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Ok, so tell me, do you actually want to find an inner peace, or not?

I thought about this question and the answer is no. If there is inner peace, life has no challenge. I care not for happiness. Because to pursue it will only lead to misery and dissatisfaction. 

There has to be something wrong with those who so fervently chase after both pleasure and happiness. 

Just like those who seek God or enlightenment at the cost of everything, there is a madness to it all. 

That a person is so willing to detach themselves from reality is just sad. 

In closing, my life is just one like all others bound for death. All things in this life of mine (all of us really) are finite. There is no truth within our subjectivity.

[Crazy Horse]

10 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Crazy Horse

It is your subjective opinion that people that do not entertain a god do not have inner peace. You don’t demonstrate that you have inner peace if you did you wouldn’t give the appearance of needing our agreement to validate your beliefs.

What utter tosh.

I didn't even mention GOD, I simply asked if he wanted inner peace, so get your facts straight.

And as for needing other folk to validate my beliefs..

How many times do I have to repeat myself? you are free to believe in anything you want to, I don't care, so stop trolling.

[Crazy Horse]

7 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I thought about this question and the answer is no. If there is inner peace, life has no challenge. I care not for happiness. Because to pursue it will only lead to misery and dissatisfaction. 

There has to be something wrong with those who so fervently chase after both pleasure and happiness. 

Just like those who seek God or enlightenment at the cost of everything, there is a madness to it all. 

That a person is so willing to detach themselves from reality is just sad. 

In closing, my life is just one like all others bound for death. All things in this life of mine (all of us really) are finite. There is no truth within our subjectivity.

Life's challenges persist whether one has an inner peace, or not.

Food needs to put on the table, bills need to be paid, relationships worked upon..

And needless to say, all of the above are easier when one is cool, calm, and collected.

Clarity of thought, precision in action, energy saving...the list of the benefits of peace are many, (not to mention the huge financial savings).

And yet you are free to live life as you see fit, but why do you try, every day, for 10years, to bring everybody else down to your self pity and loathing?

 

[Crazy Horse]

11 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Crazy Horse

And just how does god express that belief in you?

The inner peace is most remarkable, the clarity of thought is pretty good too, and in the relationships with friends, family, strangers are always fruitful.

 

[Crazy Horse]

11 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Yes you're right. You can follow your path. However that doesn't make it correct and it also doesn't mean anyone cares. 

It makes it correct for me.

So that I can at least find peace, strength, power, clarity, justice.

As for what other folks think, I still don't care!

[Crazy Horse]

11 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

You can bullsh&t yourself to your heart's content, but that isn't science, it's art. So, do everyone a favor and stick your bullsh&t back up where you found it. 

I will stick it somewhere pal, (hopefully on UM)..

But, at least you are half right.

Life is an art, and a science.

[Ajay0]

 

Reason and thinking for yourself  is heavily emphasized in the spiritual path by enlightened sages. It is not correct to generalize religion as unscientific or irrational due to some aberrations.

Quote

 

'O monks and wise men, just as a goldsmith would test his gold by burning, cutting and rubbing it, so must you examine my words and accept them, not merely out of reverence for me.' ~ Buddha ( Ghanavyuha sutra )

“Now, Kalamas, don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness’ — then you should enter & remain in them.” - Buddha (Kalama Sutta)

Though human in origin, an exposition of truth is to be accepted; otherwise even what is regarded as divine revelation is to be rejected. Even a young boy's words are to be accepted if they are words of wisdom; else reject it like straw even if uttered by Brahma the creator." - Yoga Vasishta Ramayan (II-18) 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Ajay0

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

What utter tosh.

I didn't even mention GOD, I simply asked if he wanted inner peace, so get your facts straight.

And as for needing other folk to validate my beliefs..

How many times do I have to repeat myself? you are free to believe in anything you want to, I don't care, so stop trolling.

Hi Crazy Horse

What part of everything you say is taken into consideration do you not understand? Your basic premise is god, love, inner peace and denial of ego. That is what you have consistently stated through a multitude of threads in the last few years so what reason would I have to discount parts of it a different times?

[Crazy Horse]

4 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Crazy Horse

What part of everything you say is taken into consideration do you not understand? Your basic premise is god, love, inner peace and denial of ego. That is what you have consistently stated through a multitude of threads in the last few years so what reason would I have to discount parts of it a different times?

At this particular time, I was simply asking ZionFish if he wanted inner peace!

No mention of GOD was made.

And to be fair, to the little nihilist, he actually came through in the end.

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

The inner peace is most remarkable, the clarity of thought is pretty good too, and in the relationships with friends, family, strangers are always fruitful.

 

Hi Crazy Horse

Which is still your subjective opinion seeing as how not once have you ever been able to give evidence that god has done anything. Very different people can have the same relationships with friends, family and strangers that you claim are unique without having a god construct.

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

At this particular time, I was simply asking ZionFish if he wanted inner peace!

No mention of GOD was made.

And to be fair, to the little nihilist, he actually came through in the end.

Hi Crazy Horse

Read your posts and tell me that the purpose and underlining theme is not about your god construct, you can’t as your very words in the last 10 pages of every thread you engage in is about your god construct.

[Crazy Horse]

5 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Crazy Horse

Which is still your subjective opinion seeing as how not once have you ever been able to give evidence that god has done anything. Very different people can have the same relationships with friends, family and strangers that you claim are unique without having a god construct.

Yes, it is my subjective opinion, Jay, well done..

Now, live a life grounded in love, and see, feel, know the difference.

Just try it, and see.

[jmccr8]

3 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Yes, it is my subjective opinion, Jay, well done..

Now, live a life grounded in love, and see, feel, know the difference.

Just try it, and see.

Hi Crazy Horse

Try what living in your subjective opinion? I am quite content with things as they are and am not looking to change. I have lived a full life and questioned myself and everything else through many experiences in life fun, sad, good, bad and know who I am. Your perception of life is yours, you have to live your life not me as mine is very different.

[Crazy Horse]

3 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Crazy Horse

Try what living in your subjective opinion? I am quite content with things as they are and am not looking to change. I have lived a full life and questioned myself and everything else through many experiences in life fun, sad, good, bad and know who I am. Your perception of life is yours, you have to live your life not me as mine is very different.

Its not about my subjective opinion, but yours..

Good grief, give me strength.

[+Sherapy]

On 3/5/2023 at 7:19 AM, Crazy Horse said:

Ok, calm down.

So, do you want to find a deep and lasting inner peace?

CH, all things come and go, the clinical and therapeutic approach to Mindfulness, CBT, MBSMT, ACT etc etc  and clinical (hospital) settings teach the skill just like the quote I included from the Pali. 

 

“Monks, be islands unto yourselves,[1] be your own refuge, having no other; let the Dhamma be an island and a refuge to you, having no other. Those who are islands unto themselves... should investigate to the very heart of things:[2] 'What is the source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair? How do they arise?' [What is their origin?]

"Here, monks, the uninstructed worldling [continued as in SN 22.7.] Change occurs in this man's body, and it becomes different. On account of this change and difference, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair arise. [Similarly with 'feelings,' 'perceptions,' 'mental formations,' 'consciousness'].”  
 

In other words, if you are seeking unending peace via believing in god this is delusion, if it was one who worshipped the Buddha it would be the same thing, delusion is not seeing reality as it actually is. No human experiences unending inner peace and that is it, they will have moments of varying degrees of all kinds of emotions and feelings and thoughts that come and go. 
 

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

7 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

I will stick it somewhere pal, (hopefully on UM)..

But, at least you are half right.

Life is an art, and a science.

Yeah, and you are a bullsh!t artist and there ain't no science to it.

[+Sherapy]

On 3/5/2023 at 7:19 AM, Crazy Horse said:

Ok, calm down.

So, do you want to find a deep and lasting inner peace?

No, the life I do have and the myriad of emotions, feelings, fears, pleasant, and unpleasant, ups and downs, love, joy, sadness etc. etc that come with it  are all part of life, I accept and am fine with this just as it is and work from there. I do not need to be at peace endlessly to live life. The life I live I want no matter how it shows up, and I work from there, period. 
 

This is liberating in and of itself. 

[+Sherapy]

28 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Yeah, and you are a bullsh!t artist and there ain't no science to it.

On any path, giving up the fairy tales is part and parcel of maturation for us all at one time or another.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Sherapy