UK will miss out on EU’s ‘massive’ increase in arms spending for Ukraine

[pellinore]

Britain’s defence industry is to be blocked from profiting from the EU’s vast increase in spending on arms for Ukraine, under a leaked plan seen by the Guardian.

A “massive order” of ammunition, ranging from small arms to 155mm artillery rounds, is being prepared in Brussels but only EU and Norwegian manufacturers will be able to take advantage.

France, Germany and Italy, the home of Europe’s biggest arms manufacturers are likely to be the biggest beneficiaries to the detriment of the the UK, which is the world’s seventh largest arms exporter.

“Essentially, this is a zero-sum game and the proposal will bolster European defence industry at the costs of those outside the union,” a diplomatic source in Brussels said.

UK will miss out on EU’s ‘massive’ increase in arms spending for Ukraine (msn.com)

Edited March 7, 2023 by pellinore

[+OverSword]

So England will be unable to benefit from the debt being built up in all the suffering, eh?  Pity 

[pellinore]

41 minutes ago, OverSword said:

So England will be unable to benefit from the debt being built up in all the suffering, eh?  Pity 

I just knew someone would comment like this! The UK has been extremely generous in supplying arms to Ukraine. Do you think it is all free? Do you think the US is just donating weapons to Ukraine?

At the start of the war, the Bayraktar drones Turkey supplied to Ukraine cost about $70 million. Ukraine was mighty glad to get them, and made extremely good use of them. But they weren't free.

At time of war, the countries receiving help with arms are just grateful to get them. The US supplied Britain in WW2 with weapons under a 'Lend-Lease' agreement- nothing was free- I'm not sure that Britain has made the last payments, if they have it was not that long ago.

Britain only recently finished paying France for reparations for the damage they did to their docks on D Day, damage they did while liberating them!

There are civilian organisations raising funds to buy weapons for Ukraine.

All the weapons Ukraine receives are costed. At time of war, the important thing is to get weapons to your allies, paying for them is sorted out later.

The US is set to make massive profits out of the Ukraine war, in both supplying weapons and helping repair infrastructure afterwards. From a financial and human point of view, Ukraine is a good war from the US point of view.

I 100% agree with your sentiment that people should not profit from war, but they will. It is how defence companies make their money- sad, but true. If they didn't, countries would not be able to defend themselves.

 

[+OverSword]

12 minutes ago, pellinore said:

I just knew someone would comment like this! The UK has been extremely generous in supplying arms to Ukraine. Do you think it is all free? Do you think the US is just donating weapons to Ukraine?

At the start of the war, the Bayraktar drones Turkey supplied to Ukraine cost about $70 million. Ukraine was mighty glad to get them, and made extremely good use of them. But they weren't free.

At time of war, the countries receiving help with arms are just grateful to get them. The US supplied Britain in WW2 with weapons under a 'Lend-Lease' agreement- nothing was free- I'm not sure that Britain has made the last payments, if they have it was not that long ago.

Britain only recently finished paying France for reparations for the damage they did to their docks on D Day, damage they did while liberating them!

There are civilian organisations raising funds to buy weapons for Ukraine.

All the weapons Ukraine receives are costed. At time of war, the important thing is to get weapons to your allies, paying for them is sorted out later.

The US is set to make massive profits out of the Ukraine war, in both supplying weapons and helping repair infrastructure afterwards. From a financial and human point of view, Ukraine is a good war from the US point of view.

I 100% agree with your sentiment that people should not profit from war, but they will. It is how defence companies make their money- sad, but true. If they didn't, countries would not be able to defend themselves.

 

What will actually happen from my point of view since the Ukraine may get around to paying for this (or not) in 100 years is that we will re-arm ourselves by borrowing money sending us trillions more into debt and the benefit will be short term big contracts for US merchants of death.  Hoorah!!   

You should be grateful to be left out of such shell games.

Edited March 7, 2023 by OverSword

[pellinore]

9 minutes ago, OverSword said:

What will actually happen from my point of view since the Ukraine may get around to paying for this (or not) in 100 years is that we will re-arm ourselves by borrowing money sending us trillions more into debt and the benefit will be short term big contracts for US merchants of death.  Hoorah!!   

You should be grateful to be left out of such shell games.

It is not a shell game at all. It is democratic, international economics and I am very grateful for it. And who are the merchants of death- the people arming Ukraine to allow them to continue as they want to live as a democratic peaceful state, or the invaders who are killing, torturing and raping them to expand their empire?

Ukraine is the world's breadbasket, they will flourish and so will their allies. 

[+OverSword]

The merchants of death is the military industrial complex that my nation is in thrall to.  It is a shell game as we are borrowing from ourselves to pay what is no doubt highly inflated costs to ourselves.  It's similar to paying off a credit card with a new credit card the way it's run, except in this case we gave everything away for free that we bought with the last credit card and have nothing to show for it.  What portion of your nations budget is spent on "defense"? 

Edited March 7, 2023 by OverSword

[OpenMindedSceptic]

Says the Guardian lol

[Unusual Tournament]

On 3/8/2023 at 7:58 AM, pellinore said:

I just knew someone would comment like this! The UK has been extremely generous in supplying arms to Ukraine. Do you think it is all free? Do you think the US is just donating weapons to Ukraine?

At the start of the war, the Bayraktar drones Turkey supplied to Ukraine cost about $70 million. Ukraine was mighty glad to get them, and made extremely good use of them. But they weren't free.

At time of war, the countries receiving help with arms are just grateful to get them. The US supplied Britain in WW2 with weapons under a 'Lend-Lease' agreement- nothing was free- I'm not sure that Britain has made the last payments, if they have it was not that long ago.

Britain only recently finished paying France for reparations for the damage they did to their docks on D Day, damage they did while liberating them!

There are civilian organisations raising funds to buy weapons for Ukraine.

All the weapons Ukraine receives are costed. At time of war, the important thing is to get weapons to your allies, paying for them is sorted out later.

The US is set to make massive profits out of the Ukraine war, in both supplying weapons and helping repair infrastructure afterwards. From a financial and human point of view, Ukraine is a good war from the US point of view.

I 100% agree with your sentiment that people should not profit from war, but they will. It is how defence companies make their money- sad, but true. If they didn't, countries would not be able to defend themselves.

 

Ukraine is not getting these new arms. Ukraine is getting the old, in storage weapons and ammunitions that have already expired or about to expire.
 

These new weapons are to replenish EU member stocks and prepare for any new wars.

[pellinore]

2 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

Ukraine is not getting these new arms. Ukraine is getting the old, in storage weapons and ammunitions that have already expired or about to expire.
 

These new weapons are to replenish EU member stocks and prepare for any new wars.

Ukraine started the war largely using their existing stocks of Soviet weapons. There has been political resistance to overcome in arming Ukraine- Ukraine is the only country directly involved and no one wants to risk escalation. As Putin's red lines crumble, countries are getting more daring. There are two other problems with giving Ukraine modern weapons- 1. they are not trained to use them and have little time to do so as they are at war right now. 2. And NATO doesn't want its new technology captured and retro-engineered.

The article is referring to the EU ramping up arms production:

There will also be a seven-year plan to start this spring under which European industry will be encouraged to scale up manufacturing to meet both Ukraine’s demands and those of the member states.

“The aggregated demands of both member states and Ukraine provide an opportunity to place a massive order to send industry a clear demand signal, enabling it to ramp up its production capacity in an orderly and enduring way across Europe,” the leaked paper says.

[Unusual Tournament]

2 hours ago, pellinore said:

Ukraine started the war largely using their existing stocks of Soviet weapons. There has been political resistance to overcome in arming Ukraine- Ukraine is the only country directly involved and no one wants to risk escalation. As Putin's red lines crumble, countries are getting more daring. There are two other problems with giving Ukraine modern weapons- 1. they are not trained to use them and have little time to do so as they are at war right now. 2. And NATO doesn't want its new technology captured and retro-engineered.

The article is referring to the EU ramping up arms production:

There will also be a seven-year plan to start this spring under which European industry will be encouraged to scale up manufacturing to meet both Ukraine’s demands and those of the member states.

“The aggregated demands of both member states and Ukraine provide an opportunity to place a massive order to send industry a clear demand signal, enabling it to ramp up its production capacity in an orderly and enduring way across Europe,” the leaked paper says.

I wanna shed light on a misconception. 
 

Putin’s red lines are not crumbling. Ukraine’s military is. That why all this talk and action in ramping up war stockpiles for Ukraine. 
 

6 months ago Ukraine and the West should have negotiated with Putin. while they were winning. Now Putin is on a roll. Ukraine cannot contain Russia and Ukraine’s ability to counter attack is almost non existent.

Russia has learnt the hard way to fight like a western army. And as much as it will pain some to admit, it is actually very good at it.

Ukraine’s problems cannot be solved with more weapons when moral and manpower are at critical levels. 
 

The only thing that will save Ukraine is not the direct intervention of NATO specialists like fighter pilots and logistics and support troops and in particular Polish combat troops but regime change in Russia.
 

 
 

 

[Unusual Tournament]

…meanwhile, a new 350 million military package from the U.S. is smaller than previous ones. U.S. to Ukraine aid is shrinking while EU aid is growing