Rising violence and a growing democratic crisis in Israel strain U.S. support

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Michelle said:

We're in a world of hurt if that few people can overtake our government.

That's why I lose my temper occasionally with people who keep repeating the same tired crap.  If Trump wins next year, we can expect a real insurrection by the hardcore Left and those who still accuse Trump supporters of an "attack against democracy", won't say a WORD about the chaos we'll see in major urban areas.  All I can say is if they do that, a lot of us are going to unplug, disconnect, and go our own way.  If we cannot trust elections or if one ideology has decided that they are justified in using coercion to get their agenda passed even when they lose then they need to also understand that the rest of us will feel no obligation to obey laws that they ram through.  

[Michelle]

5 minutes ago, and-then said:

That's why I lose my temper occasionally with people who keep repeating the same tired crap.

It is pretty silly when you think about it logically.

[Alchopwn]

10 hours ago, and-then said:

He was duly elected.  The Left in Israel are trying to do the same to him that was done to Trump.  Delegitimize and try to run him from office.  Either we live in a representative democracy or we live in a thugocracy.  The reason I'm watching the Left in Israel is to see the template they'll use here next year if they don't manage to win the presidency.  

Convicted criminals shouldn't be able to run for office, especially if they have abused that office and that is why they were convicted.  Period.  And yes, the same goes for Trump.  The Left isn't persecuting Trump, he's a goddamned criminal who tried to stage a coup and has brought the GOP into total disrepute.  I used to be a GOP supporter back in the Reagan era, but now I'm nauseated by the same party I used to support.  I am not voting Dem because I love the Dems, but because they are far less of a threat to the US Republic than the GOP in its present Far Right nightmare evolution.  "Woke" is only a nuisance in comparison to actual goddamned heavily armed NAZIs storming the Capitol building.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Alchopwn

[spartan max2]

10 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Convicted criminals shouldn't be able to run for office, especially if they have abused that office and that is why they were convicted.  Period.  And yes, the same goes for Trump

I agree with everything else you said. But to point out in the US you're only unable to run for office if you are convicted for treason.

And that's a good thing because it protects against abuse and corruption against political opponents. In India for example, they recently charged the most popular opposition leader with a BS crime and now he is disqualified from running. 

 

[spartan max2]

On 3/14/2023 at 4:00 PM, and-then said:

Biden's puppet-masters need to stay the hell out of Israeli domestic affairs.  The issue with the judiciary has been a problem for a long time and they made the same mistake our Leftists made here.  They tried to use their corrupted system to take out the chief executive, and failed.  Bibi and Co. are just giving them back some of their own medicine.  When you try to kill the King, you'd BETTER succeed.  

Bibi is trying to make it so that Parliament could decision overturn the supreme court with a simple majority vote. Basically nullifying a check and balance in the democracy of that nation. Would you support that in the US? If so then you might as well get rid of that entire branch of government. That does not make anyone's rights safer. Makes authoritarian much easier.

Authoritarian happens when people decide to forgo checks and balance so that "their side" wins. 

It was so unpopular that bibi currently had to backtrack on it. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by spartan max2

[Gromdor]

Looking at it, I can see and understand some of the reasoning behind trying to overhaul the system- but it is pretty much a blatant power grab and timed very poorly considering the criminal charges against Netanyahu.

Doing stuff like this only furthers the proof regarding the corruption portion of the allegations.

 

 

[+and-then]

7 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Looking at it, I can see and understand some of the reasoning behind trying to overhaul the system

Ya think?  My acid test for all of these issues is dirt-simple.  Flip the script and imagine the impact going against you.  In America it would look like having SCOTUS Justices being appointed by their predecessors, with no legislative or executive input at all.  Now, imagine that court having become completely occupied by Republican-leaning judges, with no means to balance it.  THEN, imagine that the court was as partisan as you KNEW it would be.  

As it stands now, those judges can summarily force an elected PM to fire a minister he chose, without giving any real evidence of wrongdoing or FTM, any reason at all.  The same can be said for any law that their Knesset manages to pass, that the court disagrees with.  Do you begin to see how hypocritical it is for the Left in Israel to be marching with a slogan about SAVING DEMOCRACY?  

[Alchopwn]

15 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

I agree with everything else you said. But to point out in the US you're only unable to run for office if you are convicted for treason.

That is utter BS and you know it.  And it is convicted "of" treason, not connected "for" treason.

15 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

And that's a good thing because it protects against abuse and corruption against political opponents. In India for example, they recently charged the most popular opposition leader with a BS crime and now he is disqualified from running. 

So what you are saying is that (a) You don't think the USA can run its political affairs more honestly than India and (b) that you support corrupt government.

Don't you DARE pretend you're a patriot having written this crap.

[Gromdor]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:00 PM, and-then said:

Ya think?  My acid test for all of these issues is dirt-simple.  Flip the script and imagine the impact going against you.  In America it would look like having SCOTUS Justices being appointed by their predecessors, with no legislative or executive input at all.  Now, imagine that court having become completely occupied by Republican-leaning judges, with no means to balance it.  THEN, imagine that the court was as partisan as you KNEW it would be.  

As it stands now, those judges can summarily force an elected PM to fire a minister he chose, without giving any real evidence of wrongdoing or FTM, any reason at all.  The same can be said for any law that their Knesset manages to pass, that the court disagrees with.  Do you begin to see how hypocritical it is for the Left in Israel to be marching with a slogan about SAVING DEMOCRACY?  

No offence, but I often do flip the script.  Perhaps, I have a higher moral standard than you, but when I think of myself as say, "A man that paid a pornstar off right before an election while cheating on my wife and then taking it as a deduction on my taxes.", I see myself as someone deserving of the charges being levied against me and not a victim of political prosecution.

As for the Supreme Court in the US....  The recent debacles have already turned it into a partisan joke with little to no non-partisan credibility.

[Alchopwn]

On 4/2/2023 at 12:29 AM, Gromdor said:

No offence, but I often do flip the script.  Perhaps, I have a higher moral standard than you, but when I think of myself as say, "A man that paid a pornstar off right before an election while cheating on my wife and then taking it as a deduction on my taxes.", I see myself as someone deserving of the charges being levied against me and not a victim of political prosecution.

As for the Supreme Court in the US....  The recent debacles have already turned it into a partisan joke with little to no non-partisan credibility.

I agree Gromdor.  Furthermore, let me add for comparison, I don't recall Bill Clinton ever describing himself as persecuted or using the term "witch hunt" during the Lewinski scandal.  By comparison, Trump was a "scandal a week" and "crisis a week" kind of leader.  I personally think Trump claiming the Stormy Daniels pay-off as a tax deduction was the sleaziest part of the whole affair.  It means ultimately Trump was trying to financially charge the US public for his own crappy behavior.  What an unconscionable piece of filth Trump is.  And yet he was (and likely still is, despite repeated corrupt, scandalous, criminal, treasonous and despicable acts) more electable than Hillary .

Edited April 3, 2023 by Alchopwn

[Eldorado]

Israeli officials said a barrage of rockets was fired at the country from inside Lebanon on Thursday, fueling fear of a possible escalation in violence in the heart of the Middle East. The attack comes during a sensitive holiday period as Muslims mark the holy month of Ramadan, Jews celebrate the Passover holiday and Christians begin the Easter weekend.

Israel's military said 34 rockets were fired across the border from Lebanon, of which 25 were shot down by the country's Iron Dome defense system. Five rockets fell inside Israeli territory, the military said, and another five were being investigated.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-jerusalem-lebanon-gaza-al-aqsa-rocket-fire-after-second-night-of-clashes/

https://news.sky.com/video/israel-violence-renewed-violence-at-jerusalems-al-aqsa-mosque-12851030

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-intercepts-rocket-fired-lebanon-military-sources-2023-04-06/

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:44 AM, spartan max2 said:

Authoritarian happens when people decide to forgo checks and balance so that "their side" wins. 

[applause]  Well said, my man. "checks and balances" is essential for a chance at democracy. 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

8 hours ago, Eldorado said:

Israeli officials said a barrage of rockets was fired at the country from inside Lebanon on Thursday, fueling fear of a possible escalation in violence in the heart of the Middle East.

I heard differing accounts. It started out with the missile barrage coming in to Israel from Lebanon (North). 
Then I heard that missiles also came in to Israel from the South, but did not say which country fired them (Egypt or Jordan?)
Then I heard that Israel bombed Gaza. This all started after Israel bombed Syria.

you need a road map to follow this. 

[+joc]

15 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I heard differing accounts. It started out with the missile barrage coming in to Israel from Lebanon (North). 
Then I heard that missiles also came in to Israel from the South, but did not say which country fired them (Egypt or Jordan?)
Then I heard that Israel bombed Gaza. This all started after Israel bombed Syria.

you need a road map to follow this. 

Actually you don't. All of it starts and ends in Iran!

I think the only reason Russia is playing war in Ukraine is to insure that Iran has time to get nukes.

 

[+and-then]

18 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I heard differing accounts. It started out with the missile barrage coming in to Israel from Lebanon (North). 
Then I heard that missiles also came in to Israel from the South, but did not say which country fired them (Egypt or Jordan?)
Then I heard that Israel bombed Gaza. This all started after Israel bombed Syria.

you need a road map to follow this. 

Not really.  An agreement had been made between the Jordanian WAQF - they supervise the temple mount - and Israel concerning rules to be observed during this holiday season.  Part of that was that NO ONE could stay atop the temple mount overnight until the final week of Ramadan. 

The Palestinians chose to ignore that agreement and nearly 400 of them tried to stay there overnight.  They also armed themselves with fireworks and stones because they KNEW Israel would come to eject them.  They got what they wanted and the region very nearly stumbled into another days or weeks-long blood-letting.  IOW, the beat goes on and Iran is the one calling the tune.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

8 hours ago, joc said:

Actually you don't. All of it starts and ends in Iran!

I think the only reason Russia is playing war in Ukraine is to insure that Iran has time to get nukes.

 

Is Iran really trying to make a bomb, Joc? 

I've been hearing this story for 25 years. that's right, Netanyahu first warned us of Iran's impending nuke bomb in 1997

[+joc]

22 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Is Iran really trying to make a bomb, Joc? 

I've been hearing this story for 25 years. that's right, Netanyahu first warned us of Iran's impending nuke bomb in 1997

Well, that's a good question Earl.  We have been hearing that story for a long time. How; it's at the door, any day now and the only way we can stop them is for Israel to destroy their capability.   So, does that mean the story isn't true?  Honestly, I don't know, and honestly moreover, I don't care.  I have zero control over the world.

I'm really just speculating any reason I can think of why Russia is in the Ukraine.  I haven't bought for a second that Putin is deranged, or that they are down to their last tanks or any of that nonsense.  They bring out a bunch of old tanks and everybody says, see they are just about done.  Haven't these people ever heard of Muhammed Ali's Rope a Dope Strategy?  It's all crazy bro!

[+and-then]

31 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

8 hours ago, joc said:

Actually you don't. All of it starts and ends in Iran!

I think the only reason Russia is playing war in Ukraine is to insure that Iran has time to get nukes.

 

Is Iran really trying to make a bomb, Joc? 

Enriching past 3.5% takes a lot of time and money.  They have over 100 KG of 60% enriched uranium and a few KG enriched to 84%.  That level of enrichment isn't necessary for ANY OTHER PURPOSE.  

[Black Red Devil]

On 3/27/2023 at 7:38 PM, kartikg said:

A few protestors that are hell bent on having their way. Israel has free and fair elections, these protestors have no right to dismantle the government. 

In fact, it's not the Israeli Govt's fault for what's happening and has been for decades, it's the citizens of Israel who are at fault for choosing right wing Zionists to govern them for so long.  They don't seem to have a problem with choosing politicians and political parties who violate the Rights of Palsetinian people who were just, if not more, entitled to live on their ancestral land instead of being suppressed by restrictions, discriminations, occupation and as second class citizens.  They seem to have forgotten their past history and how the Israeli nation was granted it's existence off the sufferings of a cult of genocidal right wing fanatics who ended up exterminating millions after initially suppressing, discriminating, occupying and treating their ancestors as second class citizens on lands they were living on for centuries.

Is this a case of history repeating itself?  I doubt it would go that far in this day and age, but these are some of the examples spawning from the Israeli Right wing, headed by Netanyahu, leader of the Likud Party;

• An editorial in Haaretz noted that the assignment of governmental powers in the West Bank to a civilian governor, alongside the plan to expand the dual justice system so that Israeli law will apply fully to settlers in the West Bank, constitutes de jure annexation of the West Bank.  In March 2023, a position paper by the Israeli Law Professors' Forum for Democracy, a group of 120 Israeli law professors, stated that recent changes introduced by the Netanyahu government "validate the claim that Israel practices apartheid". Specifically, the group criticized the 23 February power-sharing agreement signed between the Likud parliamentary faction and the Religious Zionist Party, granting special authority over the occupied West Bank to the far-right leader of the RZP, Bezalel Smotrich. The law professors argue that this transfer of responsibility to civilian hands is a violation of international law and specifically the 1907 Hague Regulations.

and this;

• On 26 February 2023, hundreds of Israeli settlers attacked the Palestinian town of Huwara and three nearby villages, setting alight hundreds of Palestinian homes (some with people in them), businesses, a school, and numerous vehicles, killing one Palestinian man and injuring 100 others. Bezalel Smotrich subsequently called on Twitter for Huwara to be "wiped out" by the Israeli government.  Zvika Fogel MK, of the ultra-nationalist Otzma Yehudit, which forms part of the governing coalition, said that he "looks very favorably upon" the results of the rampage.

and this;

• Members of the coalition proposed an amendment to the Disengagement Law, which would allow Israelis to resettle illegal settlements vacated during the 2005 Israeli disengagement from Gaza and the northern West Bank.  The proposal was approved for voting by the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on 9 March 2023, while the committee was still waiting for briefing materials from the NSS, IDF, MFA and Shin Bet and was passed on 21 March.

and this;

• On 19 March 2023, Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said that "there's no such thing as Palestinians because there's no such thing as a Palestinian people."

[+joc]

12 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

In fact, it's not the Israeli Govt's fault for what's happening and has been for decades, it's the citizens of Israel who are at fault for choosing right wing Zionists to govern them for so long.  They don't seem to have a problem with choosing politicians and political parties who violate the Rights of Palsetinian people who were just, if not more, entitled to live on their ancestral land instead of being suppressed by restrictions, discriminations, occupation and as second class citizens.  They seem to have forgotten their past history and how the Israeli nation was granted it's existence off the sufferings of a cult of genocidal right wing fanatics who ended up exterminating millions after initially suppressing, discriminating, occupying and treating their ancestors as second class citizens on lands they were living on for centuries.

Is this a case of history repeating itself?  I doubt it would go that far in this day and age, but these are some of the examples spawning from the Israeli Right wing, headed by Netanyahu, leader of the Likud Party;

• An editorial in Haaretz noted that the assignment of governmental powers in the West Bank to a civilian governor, alongside the plan to expand the dual justice system so that Israeli law will apply fully to settlers in the West Bank, constitutes de jure annexation of the West Bank.  In March 2023, a position paper by the Israeli Law Professors' Forum for Democracy, a group of 120 Israeli law professors, stated that recent changes introduced by the Netanyahu government "validate the claim that Israel practices apartheid". Specifically, the group criticized the 23 February power-sharing agreement signed between the Likud parliamentary faction and the Religious Zionist Party, granting special authority over the occupied West Bank to the far-right leader of the RZP, Bezalel Smotrich. The law professors argue that this transfer of responsibility to civilian hands is a violation of international law and specifically the 1907 Hague Regulations.

and this;

• On 26 February 2023, hundreds of Israeli settlers attacked the Palestinian town of Huwara and three nearby villages, setting alight hundreds of Palestinian homes (some with people in them), businesses, a school, and numerous vehicles, killing one Palestinian man and injuring 100 others. Bezalel Smotrich subsequently called on Twitter for Huwara to be "wiped out" by the Israeli government.  Zvika Fogel MK, of the ultra-nationalist Otzma Yehudit, which forms part of the governing coalition, said that he "looks very favorably upon" the results of the rampage.

and this;

• Members of the coalition proposed an amendment to the Disengagement Law, which would allow Israelis to resettle illegal settlements vacated during the 2005 Israeli disengagement from Gaza and the northern West Bank.  The proposal was approved for voting by the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on 9 March 2023, while the committee was still waiting for briefing materials from the NSS, IDF, MFA and Shin Bet and was passed on 21 March.

and this;

• On 19 March 2023, Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said that "there's no such thing as Palestinians because there's no such thing as a Palestinian people."

 You are 100% absolutely correct!  However; at the same time, the Israeli people have sought to elect those whom they thought would best protect them from the threat of the entire Arab world who was on the border ready to attack...this was before any Palestinian was even called a Palestinian...they were Nomads in Egypt.  And then the 6 day war happened and the rest is history.  It is easy to assess blame from the comfort of our own homes...especially when no one is threatening to destroy us.

Edited April 9, 2023 by joc

[Black Red Devil]

7 hours ago, joc said:

 You are 100% absolutely correct!  However; at the same time, the Israeli people have sought to elect those whom they thought would best protect them from the threat of the entire Arab world who was on the border ready to attack...this was before any Palestinian was even called a Palestinian...they were Nomads in Egypt.  And then the 6 day war happened and the rest is history.  It is easy to assess blame from the comfort of our own homes...especially when no one is threatening to destroy us.

So I'm 100% absolutely correct....but maybe not.

The thing is Joc, what you're claiming is truly history and the Jews did exceptionally well to defend themselves from surrounding enemies, also thanks to a little help from their friends, but these are discussions and conflicts that have been going on for 100 years, since the British formalised a lopsided Partition Plan that favored the Jews over Arabs.  Some facts that have been discussed a million times here on this forum show that:

• Zionism was always the backbone behind the creation of a Jewish State in the land of Palestine. There was never any intention to share this land.  Ben Gurion and other Jewish Zionist leaders at the time declared the Partition Plan the initial step towards eventual total possession.
• under the Balfour Declaration, 62% of the most arable and prosperous land was given to approximately 10% of the total (Jewish) population living in the area at the time.
• the Jews were given great military and intelligence assistance by the British and French initially and eventually largely by the US in defeating the Arabs in the 6 day war and following wars.
• Palestinians were living under the Turkish Ottomans for 400 years (until 1917) and had no concept of land possession or statehood.  Most were nomads.  Does this mean Jews had a Right to eradicate them from their land?  North American Indians and Australian Aborigines were nomads, so I suppose European settlers had a Right to do what they did at the time as well.

Zionism isn't specifically Left or Right wing but it is the reason there have been wars in the middle east for 100 years and is probably the reason terrorism expanded.  Right wing Party's in Israel all embrace Zionism and have been the cause for most discrimination and suppression, such as some of the stuff in my previous post, because they've openly made it clear they have no intention to share the "Land of Israel" with Palestinian Arabs.  The fact they've declared Israel a Jewish State is pretty indicative of this and by doing this they've completely disregarded that 20% of the population are Muslim.

Jews that vote for the Zionist Right know what they're voting for. Instead of looking for a solution like a "2 state solution", which the most prominent Left Parties in Israel support (Meretz), they support suppression and discrimination.

Exposing this doesn't mean someone is an armchair warrior, it's factual information on a forum.

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Black Red Devil

[Buzz_Light_Year]

21 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

On 19 March 2023, Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said that "there's no such thing as Palestinians because there's no such thing as a Palestinian people."

And he is correct as there is no such thing as a Palestinian People. They are Jordanians, Egyptians, Saudis and Syrians. The Arab historian Abd Al-Ghani says there is no such thing as a Palestinian People.

There has never been a Palestinian Nation.

[+joc]

40 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

So I'm 100% absolutely correct....but maybe not.

The thing is Joc, what you're claiming is truly history and the Jews did exceptionally well to defend themselves from surrounding enemies, also thanks to a little help from their friends, but these are discussions and conflicts that have been going on for 100 years, since the British formalised a lopsided Partition Plan that favored the Jews over Arabs.  Some facts that have been discussed a million times here on this forum show that:

• Zionism was always the backbone behind the creation of a Jewish State in the land of Palestine. There was never any intention to share this land.  Ben Gurion and other Jewish Zionist leaders at the time declared the Partition Plan the initial step towards eventual total possession.
• under the Balfour Declaration, 62% of the most arable and prosperous land was given to approximately 10% of the total (Jewish) population living in the area at the time.
• the Jews were given great military and intelligence assistance by the British and French initially and eventually largely by the US in defeating the Arabs in the 6 day war and following wars.
• Palestinians were living under the Turkish Ottomans for 400 years (until 1917) and had no concept of land possession or statehood.  Most were nomads.  Does this mean Jews had a Right to eradicate them from their land?  North American Indians and Australian Aborigines were nomads, so I suppose European settlers had a Right to do what they did at the time as well.

Zionism isn't specifically Left or Right wing but it is the reason there have been wars in the middle east for 100 years and is probably the reason terrorism expanded.  Right wing Party's in Israel all embrace Zionism and have been the cause for most discrimination and suppression, such as some of the stuff in my previous post, because they've openly made it clear they have no intention to share the "Land of Israel" with Palestinian Arabs.  The fact they've declared Israel a Jewish State is pretty indicative of this and by doing this they've completely disregarded that 20% of the population are Muslim.

Jews that vote for the Zionist Right know what they're voting for. Instead of looking for a solution like a "2 state solution", which the most prominent Left Parties in Israel support (Meretz), they support suppression and discrimination.

Exposing this doesn't mean someone is an armchair warrior, it's factual information on a forum.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

So I'm 100% absolutely correct....but maybe not.

The thing is Joc, what you're claiming is truly history and the Jews did exceptionally well to defend themselves from surrounding enemies, also thanks to a little help from their friends, but these are discussions and conflicts that have been going on for 100 years, since the British formalised a lopsided Partition Plan that favored the Jews over Arabs.  Some facts that have been discussed a million times here on this forum show that:

• Zionism was always the backbone behind the creation of a Jewish State in the land of Palestine. There was never any intention to share this land.  Ben Gurion and other Jewish Zionist leaders at the time declared the Partition Plan the initial step towards eventual total possession.
• under the Balfour Declaration, 62% of the most arable and prosperous land was given to approximately 10% of the total (Jewish) population living in the area at the time.
• the Jews were given great military and intelligence assistance by the British and French initially and eventually largely by the US in defeating the Arabs in the 6 day war and following wars.
• Palestinians were living under the Turkish Ottomans for 400 years (until 1917) and had no concept of land possession or statehood.  Most were nomads.  Does this mean Jews had a Right to eradicate them from their land?  North American Indians and Australian Aborigines were nomads, so I suppose European settlers had a Right to do what they did at the time as well.

Zionism isn't specifically Left or Right wing but it is the reason there have been wars in the middle east for 100 years and is probably the reason terrorism expanded.  Right wing Party's in Israel all embrace Zionism and have been the cause for most discrimination and suppression, such as some of the stuff in my previous post, because they've openly made it clear they have no intention to share the "Land of Israel" with Palestinian Arabs.  The fact they've declared Israel a Jewish State is pretty indicative of this and by doing this they've completely disregarded that 20% of the population are Muslim.

Jews that vote for the Zionist Right know what they're voting for. Instead of looking for a solution like a "2 state solution", which the most prominent Left Parties in Israel support (Meretz), they support suppression and discrimination.

Exposing this doesn't mean someone is an armchair warrior, it's factual information on a forum.

 

Again, you are 100% correct!  But......Looking for a 2 State Solution is not viable on any realistic analysis sheet.  The main factor is Iran.  A State of Palestine on the West Bank would basically mean Iran had moved it's border directly to the border of Israel.  

I don't know what the solution is.   I just know what it isn't.  But then again...I am neither Jewish, nor Muslim.  Just an Anglo Kid from Texas.  

[Black Red Devil]

45 minutes ago, joc said:

 

Again, you are 100% correct!  But......Looking for a 2 State Solution is not viable on any realistic analysis sheet.  The main factor is Iran.  A State of Palestine on the West Bank would basically mean Iran had moved it's border directly to the border of Israel.  

I don't know what the solution is.   I just know what it isn't.  But then again...I am neither Jewish, nor Muslim.  Just an Anglo Kid from Texas.  

Not true.  Israel is surrounded by Islam and as you're aware none of the nations are really friendly to the Jews.  Syria, Lebanon... After all, that's where the Jews wanted a land to live on, the land given to them by God they claim and by doing so they're suppressing other people. 

They are not the victims, not since 1947.

I've got no personal interests in this either, I just dislike injustice and Nationalistic, Conservative Right wing politics which seem to go hand in hand with each other

[Black Red Devil]

1 hour ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

And he is correct as there is no such thing as a Palestinian People. They are Jordanians, Egyptians, Saudis and Syrians. The Arab historian Abd Al-Ghani says there is no such thing as a Palestinian People.

There has never been a Palestinian Nation.

Which makes them all Semitic, same as the original Jews.  What does an American from the US call themselves?  Irish, British, Italian, Polish, African....?  They might, but they put the American on the end to distinguish from a native Irish, Britain...etc.  Palestinians are Arabs but defined by the land of Palestine they've lived on from ancient times.  I believe the Philistines were the original inhabitants.

Also, I don't think Egyptians like to be called Arabs.  They've inherited the customs and culture but Egyptian civilisation goes way beyond Arab expansion.