Covid pandemic - three years on

[Still Waters]

Three years ago, on March 11 2020, World Health Organization (WHO) director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus first formally described COVID-19 as a pandemic.

The impact of the pandemic on all aspects of society has been enormous, but we’ve come a long way since March 2020. The toll of this novel coronavirus has been blunted thanks to responses across science, healthcare and public health.

At this point, it’s not unreasonable to wonder when the pandemic will be over. But the WHO continues to regard COVID as a pandemic. Let’s take a look back at how we got here and explore where we might be heading.

https://theconversation.com/three-years-on-the-covid-pandemic-may-never-end-but-the-public-health-impact-is-becoming-more-manageable-198013

[zep73]

It's funny to think back on all the cries about dictatorship and loss of civil liberties, that some on the right were sure had come to stay. Although we tried to explain to them it was a temporary necessity.

[+and-then]

4 hours ago, zep73 said:

It's funny to think back on all the cries about dictatorship and loss of civil liberties

IMO there was nothing remotely amusing about some of the steps our governments took, especially with regard to those vaccines.  Millions lost or had their livelihood and careers jeopardized and were shunned from society as though they were criminals.  The net effect?  The next time a pandemic comes - and it will - those governments are going to find themselves actively ignored when they try their heavy handed tactics again.  People are going to be extremely suspicious and unless they can see with their own eyes the sickness and death occurring in their communities they are going to tell DC and their state houses to go pound sand.  

[zep73]

6 minutes ago, and-then said:

IMO there was nothing remotely amusing about some of the steps our governments took, especially with regard to those vaccines.  Millions lost or had their livelihood and careers jeopardized and were shunned from society as though they were criminals.  The net effect?  The next time a pandemic comes - and it will - those governments are going to find themselves actively ignored when they try their heavy handed tactics again.  People are going to be extremely suspicious and unless they can see with their own eyes the sickness and death occurring in their communities they are going to tell DC and their state houses to go pound sand.  

You missed my point. I was talking about the debates we had. But ok, let's talk about the measures taken back then.

What else could they have done? Let people walk around spreading disease unhindered? The public outcry would have been enormous! They would have been considered irresponsible. Impotent. And the death toll would have been 10 times higher. Sure, some people lost their livelihood and had to start from scratch. But starting from scratch beats death any day.

[Susanc241]

IMHO I think we and ‘they’ (Government) were damned if we did and damned if we didn’t.  Mistakes were made, no doubt about that, opportunities (for personal enrichment) seized and abused (PPE).  But this was first true pandemic since the 1918 appx Spanish flu.  None of those in charge today were even a twinkle back then.  Basically, I think the government and the scientific elements of today just panicked initially.  As I suspect the next pandemic might happen  way sooner than the century between the two last ones and we have better records of outcomes this time, things might be handled better.  One can only hope.

[psyche101]

On 3/12/2023 at 5:39 AM, and-then said:

IMO there was nothing remotely amusing about some of the steps our governments took, especially with regard to those vaccines.  Millions lost or had their livelihood and careers jeopardized and were shunned from society as though they were criminals.  The net effect?  The next time a pandemic comes - and it will - those governments are going to find themselves actively ignored when they try their heavy handed tactics again.  People are going to be extremely suspicious and unless they can see with their own eyes the sickness and death occurring in their communities they are going to tell DC and their state houses to go pound sand.  

Only the small contingent of recalcitrant misanthropes will do the same stupid thing they did this time. And they will be roundly looked down upon for putting the community at risk again. Again their will exist as an uninformed minority spreading lies and rumours. 

Anti vaxers well overestimate their numbers and support. Although their deliberate ignorance is on high resolution display for anyone with an ounce of community responsibility.

From what I can tell, the US is the main source of misinformation regarding Covid. If the government there had the countries best interest at heart, they would round up the anti vax activists like frontline doctors and put them on a stand to prove their claims or be charged as a public menace and have licences removed. 

[Scholar4Truth]

On 3/11/2023 at 1:39 PM, and-then said:

IMO there was nothing remotely amusing about some of the steps our governments took, especially with regard to those vaccines.  Millions lost or had their livelihood and careers jeopardized and were shunned from society as though they were criminals.  The net effect?  The next time a pandemic comes - and it will - those governments are going to find themselves actively ignored when they try their heavy handed tactics again.  People are going to be extremely suspicious and unless they can see with their own eyes the sickness and death occurring in their communities they are going to tell DC and their state houses to go pound sand.  

It was a new thing which we knew little information, we worked with what we had at the time. 

[Occupational Hubris]

On 3/12/2023 at 10:42 PM, psyche101 said:

Only the small contingent of recalcitrant misanthropes will do the same stupid thing they did this time. And they will be roundly looked down upon for putting the community at risk again. Again their will exist as an uninformed minority spreading lies and rumours. 

Anti vaxers well overestimate their numbers and support. Although their deliberate ignorance is on high resolution display for anyone with an ounce of community responsibility.

From what I can tell, the US is the main source of misinformation regarding Covid. If the government there had the countries best interest at heart, they would round up the anti vax activists like frontline doctors and put them on a stand to prove their claims or be charged as a public menace and have licences removed. 

The ivermectin will likley kill and-then before another pandemic comes around 

[psyche101]

26 minutes ago, Occupational Hubris said:

The ivermectin will likley kill and-then before another pandemic comes around 

There's even a wiki page on the anti vax advocates who died defending nonsense!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_of_anti-vaccine_advocates_from_COVID-19

[Occupational Hubris]

10 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

There's even a wiki page on the anti vax advocates who died defending nonsense!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_of_anti-vaccine_advocates_from_COVID-19

There was another over the weekend and it spurred  atwitter thread of idiots who are taking ivermectin complaining about thier symptoms 

https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3mb89/ivermectin-danny-lemoi-death

[psyche101]

29 minutes ago, Occupational Hubris said:

There was another over the weekend and it spurred  atwitter thread of idiots who are taking ivermectin complaining about thier symptoms 

https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3mb89/ivermectin-danny-lemoi-death

I'd heard about that one 

The quote he made hours before his death is astoundingly stupid, that's why this one stuck out 

Just before 7 am on March 3, Danny Lemoi posted an update in his hugely popular pro-ivermectin Telegram group, Dirt Road Discussions: “HAPPY FRIDAY ALL YOU POISONOUS HORSE PASTE EATING SURVIVORS !!!”

 

Hours later, Lemoi was dead.

 

How stupid can people get?

That stupid apparently.

Seriously. What a legacy to leave. To be remembered as a mindless moron. It's honestly astounding to me. The lengths some people go to just to prove they truly are complete ass hats. 

[Scholar4Truth]

2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I'd heard about that one 

The quote he made hours before his death is astoundingly stupid, that's why this one stuck out 

Just before 7 am on March 3, Danny Lemoi posted an update in his hugely popular pro-ivermectin Telegram group, Dirt Road Discussions: “HAPPY FRIDAY ALL YOU POISONOUS HORSE PASTE EATING SURVIVORS !!!”

 

Hours later, Lemoi was dead.

 

How stupid can people get?

That stupid apparently.

Seriously. What a legacy to leave. To be remembered as a mindless moron. It's honestly astounding to me. The lengths some people go to just to prove they truly are complete ass hats. 

Hmm so did he make that joke thinking it would not harm him?

[+and-then]

On 3/11/2023 at 1:58 PM, zep73 said:

You missed my point. I was talking about the debates we had. But ok, let's talk about the measures taken back then.

What else could they have done? Let people walk around spreading disease unhindered? The public outcry would have been enormous! They would have been considered irresponsible. Impotent. And the death toll would have been 10 times higher. Sure, some people lost their livelihood and had to start from scratch. But starting from scratch beats death any day.

There is simply no proof that this was the case.  In fact, we have massive evidence to the contrary.  The CCP locked down the province where SARS-COV-2 began and they only a few months ago eased that total lockdown.  In effect, they kept a huge part of the nation from being exposed to it.  Then, after deadly riots began, protesting the lockdowns, they opened things back up and a massive wave of deaths occurred.  It's not my problem to convince anyone of this.  Like nearly everything else in today's world, people have chosen what they want to believe and no amount of information is going to change their minds.  BUT.. one thing is certain... when our governments try to lock millions down again, they're going to need more than fear to accomplish it 

[+and-then]

2 minutes ago, Scholar4Truth said:

Hmm so did he make that joke thinking it would not harm him?

This guy regularly consumed veterinary grade anti-parasite meds.  It may have killed him or added to the cause of his death but that article only says he died unexpectedly.  The issue with ivermectin wasn't that it was not for human use.  Anyone who says that is either lying or ignorant of the drug's uses.  The problem came when the medical community was refused the right to prescribe for patients unless those prescriptions fell in line with the media message.  There are Ivermectin formulations/dosing made specifically for humans.  It serves the same function in them as in livestock.  It kills parasites.  Taken as prescribed it is perfectly safe.

[zep73]

59 minutes ago, and-then said:

There is simply no proof that this was the case.  In fact, we have massive evidence to the contrary.  The CCP locked down the province where SARS-COV-2 began and they only a few months ago eased that total lockdown.  In effect, they kept a huge part of the nation from being exposed to it.  Then, after deadly riots began, protesting the lockdowns, they opened things back up and a massive wave of deaths occurred.  It's not my problem to convince anyone of this.  Like nearly everything else in today's world, people have chosen what they want to believe and no amount of information is going to change their minds.  BUT.. one thing is certain... when our governments try to lock millions down again, they're going to need more than fear to accomplish it 

Whatever gets you through the night. Just know that there are a billion idiots who think they figured it all out. Don't be one of them.

[+Liquid Gardens]

5 hours ago, and-then said:

Taken as prescribed it is perfectly safe.

Not if one forgoes other treatments that have a better chance of working it's not.

5 hours ago, and-then said:

BUT.. one thing is certain... when our governments try to lock millions down again, they're going to need more than fear to accomplish it 

I'm cool with that.  We're always going to have people who are biased and misinformed, they are exactly the people who should be nowhere near the process to determine public health policy.

[Golden Duck]

On 3/12/2023 at 6:36 PM, Susanc241 said:

IMHO I think we and ‘they’ (Government) were damned if we did and damned if we didn’t.  Mistakes were made, no doubt about that, opportunities (for personal enrichment) seized and abused (PPE).  But this was first true pandemic since the 1918 appx Spanish flu.  None of those in charge today were even a twinkle back then.  Basically, I think the government and the scientific elements of today just panicked initially.  As I suspect the next pandemic might happen  way sooner than the century between the two last ones and we have better records of outcomes this time, things might be handled better.  One can only hope.

Oh yeah?!

The tyranny of working from home is now well and truly entrenched.

WE'LL NEVER GET THAT BACK!

Uh ...

[Golden Duck]

17 hours ago, Occupational Hubris said:

The ivermectin will likley kill and-then before another pandemic comes around 

But at least he'll live free.   Free from roundworm, nasal bot, and sheep itch mite.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Golden Duck

[+Desertrat56]

14 hours ago, and-then said:

This guy regularly consumed veterinary grade anti-parasite meds.  It may have killed him or added to the cause of his death but that article only says he died unexpectedly.  The issue with ivermectin wasn't that it was not for human use.  Anyone who says that is either lying or ignorant of the drug's uses.  The problem came when the medical community was refused the right to prescribe for patients unless those prescriptions fell in line with the media message.  There are Ivermectin formulations/dosing made specifically for humans.  It serves the same function in them as in livestock.  It kills parasites.  Taken as prescribed it is perfectly safe.

Yes, taken as prescribed for what it was intended!   It was never intended to kill a virus, and it was dangerous for people to go to the feedstore and get it to take for themselves without even considering the proper dosages, which is what happened in most cases.   It was developed for humans first, for parasites in Africa.   Later it was found to be useful for heart worm in dogs and other parasites in horses.   Those parasites are nothing like a virus and anyone who thinks Ivermectin could have helped with Covid are uneducated lemmings or zombies.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Desertrat56

[psyche101]

16 hours ago, Scholar4Truth said:

Hmm so did he make that joke thinking it would not harm him?

He clearly was a jerk to the bitter end. 

This is the sort of utter nonsense we see from the anti everything people here. The dumb asses who used a parasite treatment to fight a virus. 

And now that idiot sentence is known as his last words. What a legacy.

[psyche101]

16 hours ago, and-then said:

This guy regularly consumed veterinary grade anti-parasite meds.  It may have killed him or added to the cause of his death but that article only says he died unexpectedly.  The issue with ivermectin wasn't that it was not for human use.  Anyone who says that is either lying or ignorant of the drug's uses.  The problem came when the medical community was refused the right to prescribe for patients unless those prescriptions fell in line with the media message.  There are Ivermectin formulations/dosing made specifically for humans.  It serves the same function in them as in livestock.  It kills parasites.  Taken as prescribed it is perfectly safe.

That's so dumb.

Should doctor's just let all patients decide on medical treatments they are actually seeing said doctor for? 

Hey doc, I've got a runny nose. Whip up a script for a seven day course of Oxacillin would ya!

Seriously. You really don't think things through do you. 

Frontline doctors should be brought before civil proceedings to justify their behaviour during the pandemic. Every one who lied should be disbarred. Which would be all of them.

Media message my backside. It takes little knowledge to well understand why ivermectin is no Covid treatment. Right wing media playing down Covid was an absolute menace to the public. It dumbed people down.

[itsnotoutthere]

"Many authorities recommend that all individuals should receive both primary series vaccination and booster vaccination irrespective of whether they have previously been infected. The strongest argument behind this recommendation might be the scarcity of evidence on long-term protection from natural immunity. A meta-analysis of 15 observational studies showed that natural immunity was associated with an 87% lower risk of reinfection than non-immunity for up to 1 year.

Our study extends the body of evidence with up to 20 months of follow-up and more than 130 000 documented SARS-CoV-2 infections, and our results showed that individuals with natural immunity had an associated 95% protection against SARS-CoV-2 reinfection during follow-up (from 3 months after initial infection until 20 months), with no signs of waning. These results indicate that natural immunity might be better maintained than immunity induced by vaccination only, as suggested also by preliminary data from an Israeli study."

 

 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00143-8/fulltext

[+and-then]

On 3/14/2023 at 3:42 AM, zep73 said:

Whatever gets you through the night. Just know that there are a billion idiots who think they figured it all out. Don't be one of them.

It's called free will and the refusal to allow a thuggish government to crush the people for causes of their own while pretending to "save lives".  You folks can keep marching lockstep if you like, but too much information has made it out for average Americans to be fooled again. 

The next time they try their lockdowns, the ONLY way most of us outside the blue cesspools are going to willingly comply will be IF we see people we know, falling seriously ill or dying.  Nothing takes the place of being a first hand witness.  

[+and-then]

On 3/14/2023 at 4:48 PM, Desertrat56 said:

which is what happened in most cases.

Those who were harmed by it certainly were harmed because the medical establishment refused to allow a physician to prescribe appropriate formulations of it.  I'm not trying to claim that medicine formulations made for large animals is suitable or safe for human consumption.  That has always been a convenient lie to use against the "non-believers".  

As I said, when governments inevitably use this tactic again to shut people up and lock them down, they're going to find that they'll need REAL and obvious evidence in every community that there really is a protracted danger.  Fool me once, shame on you... so to speak.

[+Desertrat56]

4 minutes ago, and-then said:

Those who were harmed by it certainly were harmed because the medical establishment refused to allow a physician to prescribe appropriate formulations of it.  I'm not trying to claim that medicine formulations made for large animals is suitable or safe for human consumption.  That has always been a convenient lie to use against the "non-believers".  

As I said, when governments inevitably use this tactic again to shut people up and lock them down, they're going to find that they'll need REAL and obvious evidence in every community that there really is a protracted danger.  Fool me once, shame on you... so to speak.

I don't know of any medical professionals that even considered it viable for Covid 19.   Even Merk had a disclaimer on their website telling people it was not meant for a virus and to not (NOT) use it for Covid 19.   How stupid can someone be to take medical advice from a conspiracy theorist that has no medical training.   You are making crap up to be upset up again.   Let it go.

When the pharma company selling the drug says not to use it for a certain thing it means Don't Use it for that thing, they want to make money but they also do not want to be liable for deaths of stupid people.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Desertrat56