New Data Links Pandemic’s Origins to Raccoon Dogs at Wuhan Market

[WVK]

bon appetit:
“An international team of virus experts said on Thursday that they had found genetic data from a market in Wuhan, China, linking the coronavirus with raccoon dogs for sale there, adding evidence to the case that the worst pandemic in a century could have been ignited by an infected animal that was being dealt through the illegal wildlife trade.”

https://dnyuz.com/2023/03/16/new-data-links-pandemics-origins-to-raccoon-dogs-at-wuhan-market/

[+Desertrat56]

Who still gives a crap where it came from?  It doesn't help anyone to beat this to death.   The virus has been set loose and we are stuck with it.   Maybe Pandora did it.

[Piney]

52 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Who still gives a crap where it came from?  It doesn't help anyone to beat this to death.   The virus has been set loose and we are stuck with it.   Maybe Pandora did it.

My sister sent me the paper and there's another article in the Atlantic. But your right. 

[+Desertrat56]

17 minutes ago, Piney said:

My sister sent me the paper and there's another article in the Atlantic. But your right. 

I think it is distraction and maybe we all need to log on to www.house.gov www.senate.gov and see what they are voting on next week

https://www.house.gov/legislative-activity/2023-03-23

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CCAL-118scal-2023-03-17/pdf/CCAL-118scal-2023-03-17.pdf

[+DieChecker]

I think it's very interesting that they're finally getting somewhere. Lots of people are still curious, even if it doesn't matter.

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

Who still gives a crap where it came from?  It doesn't help anyone to beat this to death

The reason it should matter is that IF it was something that escaped a lab and the CCP is allowed to cover that up, what's to stop them doing it AGAIN?  The next time the virus could be one they've already created a vaccine for, that has an R0 that guarantees massive spread and with a CFR of 30-50%.  Then they hold the world hostage for the vaccine or refuse to share it altogether.  Do you really believe that government wouldn't do something like that?

[+Desertrat56]

6 minutes ago, and-then said:

The reason it should matter is that IF it was something that escaped a lab and the CCP is allowed to cover that up, what's to stop them doing it AGAIN?  The next time the virus could be one they've already created a vaccine for, that has an R0 that guarantees massive spread and with a CFR of 30-50%.  Then they hold the world hostage for the vaccine or refuse to share it altogether.  Do you really believe that government wouldn't do something like that?

It seems to  me that the world was held hostage this time and the vaccine wasn't ready for mass production yet, but it was close.   You always seem to think of the worst case scenario.  And even if it did escape from a lab Someone has gotten away with it.  So, if there is a cover up they got away with it.  It might not be the first time.   And just because all the media keeps saying Wuhan does Not mean that is the lab it came from.    Also, it is obvious the timeline was mis represented so at this point it does not matter, especially since everyone wants to blame China and it may not have come from China.   Just like the Spanish Flu did not come from Spain and the Hong Kong Flu did not come from Hong Kong.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Desertrat56

[+DieChecker]

2 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

It seems to  me that the world was held hostage this time and the vaccine wasn't ready for mass production yet, but it was close.   You always seem to think of the worst case scenario.  And even if it did escape from a lab Someone has gotten away with it.  So, if there is a cover up they got away with it.  It might not be the first time.   And just because all the media keeps saying Wuhan does Not mean that is the lab it came from.    Also, it is obvious the timeline was mis represented so at this point it does not matter, especially since everyone wants to blame China and it may not have come from China.   Just like the Spanish Flu did not come from Spain and the Hong Kong Flu did not come from Hong Kong.

Right. So if a certain politician staged a insurrection, stole top secret documents, and committed lots of tax fraud.... Oh well! He got away with it, so no point in investigations. 

Right?

Oh? This is different?

The point of investigation is so they do not get away with it.

Edited March 17, 2023 by DieChecker

[+Desertrat56]

2 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Right. So if a certain politician staged a insurrection, stole top secret documents, and committed lots of tax fraud.... Oh well! He got away with it, so no point in investigations. 

Right?

Oh? This is different?

The point of investigation is so they do not get away with it.

No, you are getting overly emotional and bringing up irrelevant things, politics has nothing to do with it.    It doesn't matter where it came from now, no one is going to tell us if it were man made or not, and who could be prosecuted for that anyway?  What, you want the whole world to be compensated for deaths and illnesses?   You make no sense at all.  

[+DieChecker]

9 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

No, you are getting overly emotional and bringing up irrelevant things, politics has nothing to do with it.    It doesn't matter where it came from now, no one is going to tell us if it were man made or not, and who could be prosecuted for that anyway?  What, you want the whole world to be compensated for deaths and illnesses?   You make no sense at all.  

What makes no sense is that there's 100% chance there's documents being withheld by the CCP which would clear this all up, but they refuse to allow anyone to review them.

It's like if there is a murder and there's a gun, and ballistics were done on the gun, but the results are not shared to show if the gun did, or didn't, kill the victim. The ballistics lab says that it's their data and they won't give the gun back either.

The only rational reason is a cover up. The very best reason not to investigate is politics. 

Anyway tons of virology scientists think figuring out the origin is a top priority. And as I'm told all the time about Covid19, let's follow the science.

Ultimately you are right that it won't bring anyone back, or fix all the issues created. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by DieChecker

[+Desertrat56]

15 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

What makes no sense is that there's 100% chance there's documents being withheld by the CCP which would clear this all up, but they refuse to allow anyone to review them.

It's like if there is a murder and there's a gun, and ballistics were done on the gun, but the results are not shared to show if the gun did, or didn't, kill the victim. The ballistics lab says that it's their data and they won't give the gun back either.

The only rational reason is a cover up. The very best reason not to investigate is politics. 

Anyway tons of virology scientists think figuring out the origin is a top priority. And as I'm told all the time about Covid19, let's follow the science.

Ultimately you are right that it won't bring anyone back, or fix all the issues created. 

100% chance huh.  What do you base that on?   Trump calling it the chinese virus, or media claiming all kinds of different "proof" or suspicion that it came from Wuhan China?   I don't believe there is any basis for assuming or thinking that there is a 100% chance the chinese have documents that prove where the virus came from.  

Just like there is not a 100% chance that the U.S. is covering it up.  Yes ,it is possible that one of those two countries had something to do with that virus running rampant around the world, but we don't KNOW which one if either of them are covering anything up.  

I am suspicious of the U.S. because of the hammering on and on about the Chinese being the source of the virus with no real proof, just fear mongering.   I remember the "plague ships" in the fall of 2019, most of those were cruises full of U.S. and Canadian Americans.   It would be interesting to know if any of them had any Chinese passengers, I suspect it's possible but a low probability.    So, why did WHO not do anything about the virus back then?   The vaccine came out pretty quick (even though it was a new way to do that type of vaccine).  So maybe it was Pfizer that let the viru loose?  They gained so much more than any one in China by that virus.   None of us have enough information to blame any country or company.  And it makes no difference at this point.

The biggest problem is that no one remembers things, like did you remember those cruise ships with hundreds of sick passengers?  I believe there were 5 of them over a course of 2 or 3 months before anyone ever said anything about Covid19.

[+DieChecker]

19 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

100% chance huh.  What do you base that on?   Trump calling it the chinese virus, or media claiming all kinds of different "proof" or suspicion that it came from Wuhan China?   I don't believe there is any basis for assuming or thinking that there is a 100% chance the chinese have documents that prove where the virus came from.  

Basically due to international law. Their high level lab has numerous document requirements over many international organizations that partnered with them. Much of the institute was funded with foreign money that required sharing of documents and results. All that sharing stopped in January 2020. Coincidence? 

And just recently we've seen that there was data collected showing which animals lived in which cages that tested positive for Covid19. Data that was immediately taken offline by the CCP. Data they've refused to share since January 2020. 

So we know they have data and documents relating to nearly everything with the Wuhan Lab. And now we know that they have data on the Market where the pandemic started that they also have not shared.

100% they are hiding data and documents. It's not an opinion, it is a fact.

Quote

Just like there is not a 100% chance that the U.S. is covering it up.  Yes ,it is possible that one of those two countries had something to do with that virus running rampant around the world, but we don't KNOW which one if either of them are covering anything up.  19.

I've read some theories on a US cover up. And I can't disprove most of it, because our government considers some of it top secret. I do believe that if any data does exist of a US involvement, that it likely would be outed by an insider. It seems that happens in nearly everything. 

Quote

I am suspicious of the U.S. because of the hammering on and on about the Chinese being the source of the virus with no real proof, just fear mongering.   I remember the "plague ships" in the fall of 2019, most of those were cruises full of U.S. and Canadian Americans.   It would be interesting to know if any of them had any Chinese passengers, I suspect it's possible but a low probability.    So, why did WHO not do anything about the virus back then?   The vaccine came out pretty quick (even though it was a new way to do that type of vaccine).  So maybe it was Pfizer that let the viru loose?  They gained so much more than any one in China by that virus.   None of us have enough information to blame any country or company.  And it makes no difference at this point.

The biggest problem is that no one remembers things, like did you remember those cruise ships with hundreds of sick passengers?  I believe there were 5 of them over a course of 2 or 3 months before anyone ever said anything about Covid

A lot of that is true. But we do know several things. The pandemic started in Wuhan China in a wet meat market. There is a research lab only 20 miles from there doing top level research on these very same bat related coronaviruses. We also know that China had a huge meat industry set up to farm what amount to wild animals, and it is these exact kinds of animals, raccoon dogs, civits, pangolins, etc... that are suspected to be the jump off point to humans.

So China has several vectors where the virus could have come from, some natural, some not. The US has, what? The military created virus theory?

Given those two choices, one is way more likely then the other, even if there is no way currently to prove anything.

[+Desertrat56]

12 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Basically due to international law. Their high level lab has numerous document requirements over many international organizations that partnered with them. Much of the institute was funded with foreign money that required sharing of documents and results. All that sharing stopped in January 2020. Coincidence? 

And just recently we've seen that there was data collected showing which animals lived in which cages that tested positive for Covid19. Data that was immediately taken offline by the CCP. Data they've refused to share since January 2020. 

So we know they have data and documents relating to nearly everything with the Wuhan Lab. And now we know that they have data on the Market where the pandemic started that they also have not shared.

100% they are hiding data and documents. It's not an opinion, it is a fact.

I've read some theories on a US cover up. And I can't disprove most of it, because our government considers some of it top secret. I do believe that if any data does exist of a US involvement, that it likely would be outed by an insider. It seems that happens in nearly everything. 

A lot of that is true. But we do know several things. The pandemic started in Wuhan China in a wet meat market. There is a research lab only 20 miles from there doing top level research on these very same bat related coronaviruses. We also know that China had a huge meat industry set up to farm what amount to wild animals, and it is these exact kinds of animals, raccoon dogs, civits, pangolins, etc... that are suspected to be the jump off point to humans.

So China has several vectors where the virus could have come from, some natural, some not. The US has, what? The military created virus theory?

Given those two choices, one is way more likely then the other, even if there is no way currently to prove anything.

So someone ate meat from a wuhan wet meat market, then got on a cruse ship in September of 2019 and infected a whole ship load of people, then someone working on that ship got a job on another ship and infecte another ship full of people, etc.?   Very unlikely.   You haven't even asked if it came from a wet market and people in Wuhan got sick, how did it get from that town to the rest of the world?   Do you have an answer for that?   Rich people, who travel, do not buy meat at a wet market.   Was the meat shipped out of the country? 

[+DieChecker]

55 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

So someone ate meat from a wuhan wet meat market, then got on a cruse ship in September of 2019 and infected a whole ship load of people, then someone working on that ship got a job on another ship and infecte another ship full of people, etc.?   Very unlikely.   You haven't even asked if it came from a wet market and people in Wuhan got sick, how did it get from that town to the rest of the world?   Do you have an answer for that?   Rich people, who travel, do not buy meat at a wet market.   Was the meat shipped out of the country? 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/22/world/coronavirus-spread.html

Quote

The most extensive travel restrictions to stop an outbreak in human history haven’t been enough. We analyzed the movements of hundreds of millions of people to show why.

Airplanes. Combined with a onset time of several days where you don't know you have it.

[spartan max2]

7 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Who still gives a crap where it came from?  It doesn't help anyone to beat this to death.   The virus has been set loose and we are stuck with it.   Maybe Pandora did it.

Knowledge is always important for knowledge sake.

Was it from a raccoon dog in a wet market? Then maybe the world needs to work on regulating wet markets.

What is from a lab leak? Then maybe the world needs to question gain of function research or really lush for better lab security 

[Occupational Hubris]

7 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Who still gives a crap where it came from?  It doesn't help anyone to beat this to death.   The virus has been set loose and we are stuck with it.   Maybe Pandora did it.

Yeah. Who gives a **** about learning anything new, amirite? 

[Raptor Witness]

9 hours ago, and-then said:

…..the CCP is allowed to cover that up, what's to stop them doing it AGAIN?

….. Aren’t you forgetting the profit motive?

Who profited from the sale of the vaccines? It certainly wasn’t the CCP.

U.S. intelligence is helping set the stage for their own destruction. 

 

[+DieChecker]

https://slate.com/technology/2023/03/raccoon-dogs-pandemic-origins-animal-spillover.html

Quote

There’s a reason raccoon dogs may well have been involved in the start of the pandemic. Raccoon dogs have long been hunted and bred for their fur, which is likely why they were being sold in the Wuhan market. According to the Humane Society of the United States, millions are killed in China every year for their fur. The U.S. buys a huge portion of the product. And to supply that market, many sellers raise them in crowded facilities and sell them in small cages, sometimes stacked with those of other animals. It’s a prime environment for getting sick.

The new research doesn’t definitively show that raccoon dogs passed COVID along to humans. But it’s long been known that raccoon dogs can carry tapeworms, rabies, parasitic worms, and other pathogens—including, crucially, coronaviruses. The raccoon dogs may be the source of the pandemic, but we can’t exactly say it’s their fault.

 

[+joc]

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

 

The new research doesn’t definitively show that raccoon dogs passed COVID along to humans.

Well when it does show that, there's a story, otherwise it's just so much more Covid BS. I think the more probable story is that Obama's minions, conspired with China to develop a certain type of virus that they could use to 'create' a worldwide pandemic.  For three reasons, One, to get rid of Donald Trump.  Two, to destroy the economy of the US that Trump was responsible for.  And Three, to see just how far they could manipulate the American People.  

I am stocking up on food and paper items now...because I suspect rather strongly...we ain't seen nothing yet when it comes to pandemic production.  The next one may very well be incredibly deadly, which...Covid...wasn't.  All you have to do is ask yourself this question:  How many people do I personally know who died of Covid?  And...How many people do I personally know who had Covid...but didn't die?

Edited March 18, 2023 by joc

[+DieChecker]

1 hour ago, joc said:

Well when it does show that, there's a story, otherwise it's just so much more Covid BS. I think the more probable story is that Obama's minions, conspired with China to develop a certain type of virus that they could use to 'create' a worldwide pandemic.  For three reasons, One, to get rid of Donald Trump.  Two, to destroy the economy of the US that Trump was responsible for.  And Three, to see just how far they could manipulate the American People.  

I am stocking up on food and paper items now...because I suspect rather strongly...we ain't seen nothing yet when it comes to pandemic production.  The next one may very well be incredibly deadly, which...Covid...wasn't.  All you have to do is ask yourself this question:  How many people do I personally know who died of Covid?  And...How many people do I personally know who had Covid...but didn't die?

I posted in one of the other Covid threads. Poll shows 60% in the US think Covid was made in a Lab. 30% think it was released on purpose.

So, AFAIK, you are not alone in your beliefs. 

[+joc]

7 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I posted in one of the other Covid threads. Poll shows 60% in the US think Covid was made in a Lab. 30% think it was released on purpose.

So, AFAIK, you are not alone in your beliefs. 

If came out of nowhere, with no warning...and suddenly it's worldwide.  And then suddenly, China locks everyone in and their numbers of infected shrink overnight to .0001% 

We were all more or less forced to stay home...the entire world basically...and the world as we knew it stopped.  Manufacturing...dead on arrival.  Delivery of goods and services...dead on arrival.  Then the baffling with BS of the mask debacle and social distancing myth.  It was all ludicrous.  And finally, the secret plot by Democrats to 'vote early'.  This allowed them the uncharted effort to mail in votes that otherwise would have never existed or materialized. 

And then as soon as it's 'over'...Russia invades Ukraine and now no one is talking about the pandemic...old, old news.

Edited March 18, 2023 by joc

[+DieChecker]

24 minutes ago, joc said:

If came out of nowhere, with no warning...and suddenly it's worldwide.  And then suddenly, China locks everyone in and their numbers of infected shrink overnight to .0001% 

We were all more or less forced to stay home...the entire world basically...and the world as we knew it stopped.  Manufacturing...dead on arrival.  Delivery of goods and services...dead on arrival.  Then the baffling with BS of the mask debacle and social distancing myth.  It was all ludicrous.  And finally, the secret plot by Democrats to 'vote early'.  This allowed them the uncharted effort to mail in votes that otherwise would have never existed or materialized. 

And then as soon as it's 'over'...Russia invades Ukraine and now no one is talking about the pandemic...old, old news.

Much of that is certainly possible. Though I think the whole "Vote Early" was just opportunistic. Even if it was seriously suspect to if it was done correctly. 

Agree on the masks anyway. CDC has shown that most of the ones people wore were nearly useless. 

[+joc]

10 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Much of that is certainly possible. Though I think the whole "Vote Early" was just opportunistic. Even if it was seriously suspect to if it was done correctly. 

Agree on the masks anyway. CDC has shown that most of the ones people wore were nearly useless. 

What is the difference between opportunistic and planned?  The democrats certainly had signs out in all the neighborhoods:  Vote Early! And vote Democrat All The Way Down.  There wasn't really any reason for them to tell their entire base to Vote Early.  But doing so, gave them a way to manufacturer votes.  its really simple.  Instead of 'getting the vote out'...what they did was 'get the vote in...into an envelope'.   In concert with the incredible non-stop, negative media blitz on Trump...the Democrats could simply knock on a door of a registered voter and say, So are you voting for Biden or Trump?  Oh Biden, for sure.  Well here, just check all the boxes on the left and sign it and you're done.  Just mail it in!  Never before in history has that been done.  It was never the intent for Early Voting, but the Left planned, and manipulated the system.  The Pandemic allowed them to claim safety issues, when the whole thing was  planned...imho...as a concert event. Pandemic, Media Negative Trump Blitz, Inflated death numbers due to the Covid, and the Vote Early Campaign.

Edited March 18, 2023 by joc

[+Hammerclaw]

How could anyone doubt such an impeccable source? 

DNyuz - Media Bias/Fact Check (mediabiasfactcheck.com)

[+DieChecker]

49 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

How could anyone doubt such an impeccable source? 

DNyuz - Media Bias/Fact Check (mediabiasfactcheck.com)

Meh, if it hadn't been picked up by Fox, CNN, MSNBC, AP, BBC.... I'd say you have a point.

Slate, Scientific American, ABC, CBS, NPR, The Atlantic, The Guardian, NY Post, NY Times.... Several Dot Gov sites...

Edited March 18, 2023 by DieChecker