Trump sending a coded message to the far-right with the location of next rally: experts

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, el midgetron said:

Just imagine for a second if Waco had happened during Trump’s presidency. 
 

It never would have happened during the Trump administration, because he would have called off the FBI and other Law Enforcement agencies. He would have allowed Koresh to continue sexually abusing the mothers and children within his cult, pretty sick isn’t it! Yea, no surprise Trump would choose Waco for his first Presidential Rally in his 2024 race.

[el midgetron]

5 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

It never would have happened during the Trump administration, because he would have called off the FBI and other Law Enforcement agencies. He would have allowed Koresh to continue sexually abusing the mothers and children within his cult, pretty sick isn’t it! Yea, no surprise Trump would choose Waco for his first Presidential Rally in his 2024 race.

No surprise the usual “advocates” for child welfare have chosen Waco to rally behind. Killing 25 kids under the guise of rescuing them is the prefect analogy.

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

No surprise the usual “advocates” for child welfare have chosen Waco to rally behind. Killing 25 kids under the guise of rescuing them is the prefect analogy.

Your hero David Koresh and his cult killed those children, but I am not surprised you would support his actions
Wow, so you would have allowed them sexually abused to continue , your sick dude!
I thought you were a protector of children, your mighty phony dude, thanks for clearing that up!

[spartan max2]

33 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

No surprise the usual “advocates” for child welfare have chosen Waco to rally behind. Killing 25 kids under the guise of rescuing them is the prefect analogy.

Well I guess there's the proof about this thread.

If Midge is defending the Waco cult now then that pretty much gives us the answer...

[el midgetron]

19 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Your hero David Koresh and his cult killed those children, but I am not surprised you would support his actions
Wow, so you would have allowed them sexually abused to continue , your sick dude!
I thought you were a protector of children, your mighty phony dude, thanks for clearing that up!

Not my hero. 
You are the one rationalizing the killing of 25 children and absolving the government of any responsibility for their actions. 

[el midgetron]

3 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Well I guess there's the proof about this thread.

If Midge is defending the Waco cult now then that pretty much gives us the answer...

I’m not defending the Waco cult. Two things can be true at the same time. Whatever the Waco people were allegedly involved in doesn’t justify their slaughter even due to gross negligence on behalf of law enforcement. 

[spartan max2]

Just now, el midgetron said:

I’m not defending the Waco cult. Two things can be true at the same time. Whatever the Waco people were allegedly involved in doesn’t justify their slaughter even due to gross negligence on behalf of law enforcement. 

The Cult leader is responsible for those deaths. Convinced his people that it was the end times and that they had to fight. 

 

 

Also. You should read this book sometime when you get the chance. Bruce Berry is the guy who was called in to work with the WACO kids after words. It was a cult and it was wrong and abusive.

https://www.amazon.com/Boy-Who-Raised-Psychiatrists-Notebook-What/dp/0465056539

[el midgetron]

If a black man dies at the hands of law enforcement, it’s a stain on America. If dozens of women and children die by the hands of law enforcement it’s totally justified.

Edited March 23, 2023 by el midgetron

[spartan max2]

2 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

If a black man dies at the hands of law enforcement, it’s a stain on America. If dozens of women and children by at the hands of law enforcement it’s totally justified.

Do you even know anything about Waco or are you just having a knee jerk anti-government response ? 

They had a search warrant for a weapon stockpile and arrest of the cult leader. They tried to fulfill that warrant and it turned into a firefighter because the cult leader wouldn't let them. 

That turned into a siege. During that Siege the cultish set fire to the place (which is typically cult leader behavior btw). 

They stockpiled weapons to fight in the end times. And then they did fight. Not much else the FBI could do there. 

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

34 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Not my hero. 
You are the one rationalizing the killing of 25 children and absolving the government of any responsibility for their actions. 

Were you a member of the Branch Davidians?

 

[Buzz_Light_Year]

30 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Do you even know anything about Waco

Koresh could've been picked up on any of his many trips into town but he wasn't. No the government had to have a show of force and display to the world that they are the authority. But what you ended up with was the government's show of utter incompetence that has been displayed ever so many times before.

Waco was Ruby Ridge with just more bodies.

[spartan max2]

10 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Koresh could've been picked up on any of his many trips into town but he wasn't. No the government had to have a show of force and display to the world that they are the authority. But what you ended up with was the government's show of utter incompetence that has been displayed ever so many times before.

Waco was Ruby Ridge with just more bodies.

The warrant was also to retrieve the weapons stockpile.

[+Desertrat56]

14 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

I actually think Waco will be one of his better rallies where attendance is concerned. I am certain the far rightwing Extremist community will show up in force. Trump is where their hopes and dreams are pinned, he is the only American politician who will support there cause they need him to succeed!

JIMHO

You haven't been to Waco recently have you.

[darkmoonlady]

Trump himself came up with Waco? No. Doubt he could find it on a map with a sharpie holding boy scout with a compass badge. His handlers however, being the cynical opportunists they have always shown themselves to be, I'm sure thought hey nothing better to get the flock salivating with open wallets than holding a rally at the site of a religious nuts last stand. The long standing paranoia crowd that's glommed onto Trump didn't start feeding off anti government conspiracies yesterday!? No that's old school Alex Jones, classic flavor conspiracy like Classic Coke but with more ammunition hoarding. He and his team love hand feeding the rabid anti government folks since he ran the first time, when he was kissing up to Alex Jones and his at that time 6 million followers. That's a lot of people to hit up for money. Trump couldn't give 2 sweat beads off that head of his for actual government conspiracies, he is too busy dreaming of another term where he could siphon more cash out of the government he pretends to hate so much. Not sure why people on the right try to deny his team would do this at Waco because of course his team would. Trump is just like a big, stupid clown that gets up on stage and spews out red state buzz words and a few racist comments and gets back on his air conditioned jet to his golf course. Yeah he's just so down to earth and cares so much about qanon, conspiracies, JFK jr. and limited government. 

[+OverSword]

6 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

The Cult leader is responsible for those deaths. Convinced his people that it was the end times and that they had to fight. 

 

Can not agree there.  They are under siege and at that point there is no reason to attack an armed compound full of non-combatants except impatience, they could and should have waited them out IMO.  It was reckless and a terrible move by law enforcement.  That does not excuse Koresh but we already knew he was insane, no reason to match him.  

[spartan max2]

24 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Can not agree there.  They are under siege and at that point there is no reason to attack an armed compound full of non-combatants except impatience, they could and should have waited them out IMO.  It was reckless and a terrible move by law enforcement.  That does not excuse Koresh but we already knew he was insane, no reason to match him.  

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

The siege was for 51 days. And eventually the cultist started a fire. Probably as a mass suicide thing (unwilling suicide for many of them).

If the FBI didn't act at that point then they also would have been criticized for it.

 

Quote

Eventually, the FBI launched a tear gas attack on April 19, 1993, in an attempt to force the Branch Davidians out of the ranch. Shortly thereafter, the Mount Carmel Center became engulfed in flames. The fire resulted in the deaths of 76 Branch Davidians, including 25 children, two pregnant women, and David Koresh.[13][14]

 

[+OverSword]

2 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

And eventually the cultist started a fire.

You sure about that?  Pretty sure the gas grenades are what started the fire.

Edited March 23, 2023 by OverSword

[Knob Oddy]

6 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

They stockpiled weapons to fight in the end times. And then they did fight. Not much else the FBI could do there. 

 

 

Sounds...... perfectly legal in America 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Knob Oddy

[+OverSword]

5 minutes ago, Knob Oddy said:

Sounds...... perfectly legal in America 

The warrant was because they were suspicious they may be modifying weapons to be fully auto.  So weak.  Pull the other one too.  Notably you never hear automatic weapons fire during the battle.

Edited March 23, 2023 by OverSword

[spartan max2]

1 hour ago, Knob Oddy said:

Sounds...... perfectly legal in America 

 

It's illegal to have automatic weapons and explosives.

Quote

May 1992, ATF began an extensive investigation of David Koresh (a.k.a. David Wayne Howell) and the Branch Davidians, a cult group residing on a large and rural property near Waco, Texas. ATF's investigation centered on Koresh and the Davidians being involved in the illegal manufacture and possession of machineguns and the illegal manufacture and possession of destructive devices, including bombs and grenades. ATF's investigation showed that the group acquired:

136 firearms, including assault rifles and handguns

700+ magazines for those firearms

200,000+ rounds of ammunition

110 upper and lower receivers for AR15/M16 rifles

Grenade-launcher attachments for AR15/M16 rifles

400+ empty M31 rifle grenades, along with black powder and other explosive chemicals

https://www.atf.gov/our-history/remembering-waco

The judge granted a warrant so they must have provided reasonable evidence of what the cult was doing.

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by spartan max2

[spartan max2]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

You sure about that?  Pretty sure the gas grenades are what started the fire.

That's the conspiracy. In court the FBI provided record audio showing that it was the cult leadership that started the fire 

This is consistent with cult behavior. Most cult leadership turns to mass murder and suicide when they about to lose their cult. 

[+OverSword]

8 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

That's the conspiracy. In court the FBI provided record audio showing that it was the cult leadership that started the fire 

This is consistent with cult behavior. Most cult leadership turns to mass murder and suicide when they about to lose their cult. 

Yeah.  That is not what the survivors said.  Why would the government lie about it?  Or why wouldn't they?  

[spartan max2]

3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Yeah.  That is not what the survivors said.  Why would the government lie about it?  Or why wouldn't they?  

The court saw all the evidence and was not convinced how you were.

 

Quote

Who started the fire that erupted a little more than six hours after the FBI began inserting the tear gas on April 19?

Although several of the surviving Branch Davidians insist that they did not start the fire, a panel of arson investigators concluded that the Davidians were responsible for igniting it, simultaneously, in at least three different areas of the compound. Unless they were deliberatley set, the probability of the three fires starting almost simultaneously was highly unlikely, according to fire experts. Furthermore, the videotapes show the use of accelerants that strongly increased the spread of the fire. Although one Branch Davidian stated that a FBI tank had tipped over a lantern, videotapes show that the tank had struck the building a minute and a half before the fire began. Also some of the surviving Davidians' clothing showed evidence of lighter fluid and other accelerants. In addition, FBI listening devices seemed to establish that the Davidians were overheard making statements such as, "Spread the fuel," some six hours before the fires began. (Joint Hearing of the Crime Subcommittee July 1995.)

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/waco/topten2.html

Edited March 23, 2023 by spartan max2

[+OverSword]

8 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

The court saw all the evidence and was not convinced how you were.

 

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/waco/topten2.html

CS Gas, very flammable.  The ATF pumped the place full of it.  The only sources of heat for the religious nuts were little coleman lanterns with small flames.  Once enough CS Gas was in an enclosed space....Kablooey!!  All nine people that were actually inside say different than the official version.  I'm not trying to justify any actions of the cult but I for one don't believe they set the fires.  If you could have watched as the story unfolded all the different things coming out of the governments craw........

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/25/1151283229/waco-branch-davidian-david-koresh-jeff-guinn

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by OverSword

[spartan max2]

14 minutes ago, OverSword said:

CS Gas, very flammable.  The ATF pumped the place full of it.  The only sources of heat for the religious nuts were little coleman lanterns with small flames.  Once enough CS Gas was in an enclosed space....Kablooey!!  All nine people that were actually inside say different than the official version.  I'm not trying to justify any actions of the cult but I for one don't believe they set the fires.  If you could have watched as the story unfolded all the different things coming out of the governments craw........

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/25/1151283229/waco-branch-davidian-david-koresh-jeff-guinn

 

I'm not really seeing where this article is supporting your stance that the government caused the fire ?

 

I saw this.  But even this looks in support that the FBI didn't cause the fire.

Quote

They lied, in that early that morning, they had used some combustible military rounds to insert gas, as well as the noncombustible rounds that they had promised the attorney general. But these military rounds never actually broke into flames. The fire started hours after those rounds were fired. But when the FBI got caught lying about that, then, of course, it made it easy for conspiracists to say they're lying about everything.

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by spartan max2