Georgia Senate OKs changes to bill banning some gender-affirming care for trans youth

[+OverSword]

Quote

 

The Georgia Senate has approved the House's changes to a bill that would restrict some gender-affirming care.

SB 140 now heads to Gov. Brian Kemp's desk where the governor is expected to sign the bill into law.

Most gender-affirming surgeries and hormone replacement therapies for transgender people under 18 would be banned in Georgia under the measure. Doctors could still prescribe medicines to block puberty under the bill.

"What we're doing here is we're preventing minors under 18 years old from having irreversible changes in their lives," said state Sen. Ben Watson, R-Savannah.    

 

Link

[+and-then]

I think this is a positive, over all, but I wonder if leaving the access to hormone blockers would also leave children with irreversible changes.  

I realize that there is definitely a population of folks with true gender dysmorphia and it must be a real struggle for them.  The problem is that the numbers of these "legitimate" cases are so statistically small that it's obvious we are seeing a cultural change that is out of proportion with reality.  These kids need mental health counseling until they are old enough to choose irreversible changes to their bodies.  

[Alchopwn]

I feel appalled that this issue has been politicized at all.  This should be an intensely personal and private matter, and Dems and GOP should pull their filthy mits of the issue.  This has nothing to do with politics, and politicizing it has only made the situation increasingly shameful and appalling.  I loathe identity politics at the best of times, but when it threatens vulnerable people who are not yet full voting citizens and their physical health and mental wellbeing, then all sides need to be sued into silence imo.  This is a matter for the individual to decide upon once their are a legal adult, and not before.  If they want reassignment surgery the day they turn 18, then great, but any action taken before that day should be grounds for a legal case imo.

[el midgetron]

 

"What we're doing here is we're preventing minors under 18 years old from having irreversible changes in their lives," said state Sen. Ben Watson, R-Savannah.”

Except they are not really. Even puberty blockers alone cause irreversible changes to the bodies of minors, One step at a time I suppose. 

[darkmoonlady]

22 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

 

 

"What we're doing here is we're preventing minors under 18 years old from having irreversible changes in their lives," said state Sen. Ben Watson, R-Savannah.”

Except they are not really. Even puberty blockers alone cause irreversible changes to the bodies of minors, One step at a time I suppose. 

No they don't, puberty blockers are given to disabled kids more than you know or realize. It's a standard practice with severely disabled kids as a means of keeping disabled children, mostly girls from getting their periods. If you have a non verbal severely disabled child who can't tell you they are in severe pain from periods, doctors years ago started prescribing hormone and puberty blockers. Disabled kids aren't given any hormones but trans kids are if they are transitioning and if the standards by the psychiatric teams allow for it, and they go through basically puberty of the sex hormones they receive vs what they were born with. It's one thing to disagree and it's another to post outright lies when it's clear you don't know how the process works. Puberty blockers in trans kids aren't permanent and aren't taken for longer than a short period while their previous hormone levels drop and they start on new hormones.

Just to reiterate disabled kids are put on puberty blockers and no other hormones and permanently, you're saying that puberty blockers "cause damage" ok then what and where is the evidence in disabled kids on them for life?

[el midgetron]

40 minutes ago, darkmoonlady said:

Puberty blockers in trans kids aren't permanent and aren't taken for longer than a short period while their previous hormone levels drop and they start on new hormones.

At which point they become sterile and lose the ability to ever have an orgasm. But “pausing” the critical developmental stage of puberty is completely safe and reversible, right? Obviously your science must be backed up by long term studies on youth who stop puberty blockers. 

There are also concerns that GnRH-analogs may have irreversible effects on sexual function and bone development. In some youth pubertal blockade at Tanner stage 2 followed by exogenous cross-sex hormones has resulted in a complete absence of adult sexual function.20 Profound effects on future sexual function may even occur when puberty is paused and later allowed to proceed, since the precise timing of hormone exposure during the peripubertal window is a determinative factor in adult sexual function.21 Finally, several studies have found that the expected pattern of bone mass accrual during adolescence does not occur when puberty is halted.22-25 The long-term clinical consequences of failure to accrue normal bone mass are unknown.

https://accpjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jac5.1691

Im sure you can find a study that supports your position. Good luck in the future with your belief that disrupting the body’s natural developmental functions is without cost. 

[psyche101]

19 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

At which point they become sterile and lose the ability to ever have an orgasm. But “pausing” the critical developmental stage of puberty is completely safe and reversible, right? Obviously your science must be backed up by long term studies on youth who stop puberty blockers. 

There are also concerns that GnRH-analogs may have irreversible effects on sexual function and bone development. In some youth pubertal blockade at Tanner stage 2 followed by exogenous cross-sex hormones has resulted in a complete absence of adult sexual function.20 Profound effects on future sexual function may even occur when puberty is paused and later allowed to proceed, since the precise timing of hormone exposure during the peripubertal window is a determinative factor in adult sexual function.21 Finally, several studies have found that the expected pattern of bone mass accrual during adolescence does not occur when puberty is halted.22-25 The long-term clinical consequences of failure to accrue normal bone mass are unknown.

https://accpjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jac5.1691

Im sure you can find a study that supports your position. Good luck in the future with your belief that disrupting the body’s natural developmental functions is without cost. 

 

 

Perhaps you can too?

It's been pointed out in the past that SEGM is not a recognised medical institute or body. 

It's a bunch of conservatives pushing an agenda. 

 

The Society For Evidence-Based Gender Medicine (SEGM) is an activist non-profit organisation that is known for mischaracterizing standards of care for transgender youth and engaging in political lobbying using misinformation which contradicts the evidence base around transgender healthcare.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Evidence-Based_Gender_Medicine

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by psyche101

[Portre]

2 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

I feel appalled that this issue has been politicized at all.  This should be an intensely personal and private matter, and Dems and GOP should pull their filthy mits of the issue.  

Yeah, those stinkin' Dems wanting to allow parents to raise their kids while the Republicons know the state is better at raising kids than parents.

[psyche101]

2 minutes ago, Portre said:

Yeah, those stinkin' Dems wanting to allow parents to raise their kids while the Republicons know the state is better at raising kids than parents.

Land of the free........... 

 

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, darkmoonlady said:

Just to reiterate disabled kids are put on puberty blockers and no other hormones and permanently, you're saying that puberty blockers "cause damage" ok then what and where is the evidence in disabled kids on them for life?

I make no claim to know for sure if the changes are irreversible but if a child approaching puberty takes these meds and the hormonal changes that naturally occur, are stopped, then it seems to me that at a minimum their physical development would be stunted.  If that's accurate, how does one go about regaining what would have been the normal course of development that was stopped?  

The example you give isn't one that protects children who may well be confused by parents, teachers, or peers who are reacting to social cues or even stigma surrounding this issue.  Why do you think that causing hormonal changes prior to coming of legal age, would not be a problem?  If a male child was given estrogen and developed breasts, that isn't something that can easily be remedied.  I am highly suspicious of any group demanding such changes at an age when we KNOW children cannot make an informed choice.

[glorybebe]

There are male to female who have early set osteoporosis due to the female hormones in their bodies that naturally shouldn't be there.  If you read about how many are no swapping back to their birth gender, you will see the downside of the extra hormones and operations.  I watched one female to male who has to wear a bag since the internal working cannot even allow him to pee and hee feels very awkward trying to have a physical relationship.  There are downsides to gender reassignment, and those need to be explained to the children before they make their decision 

[darkmoonlady]

3 minutes ago, and-then said:

I make no claim to know for sure if the changes are irreversible but if a child approaching puberty takes these meds and the hormonal changes that naturally occur, are stopped, then it seems to me that at a minimum their physical development would be stunted.  If that's accurate, how does one go about regaining what would have been the normal course of development that was stopped?  

The example you give isn't one that protects children who may well be confused by parents, teachers, or peers who are reacting to social cues or even stigma surrounding this issue.  Why do you think that causing hormonal changes prior to coming of legal age, would not be a problem?  If a male child was given estrogen and developed breasts, that isn't something that can easily be remedied.  I am highly suspicious of any group demanding such changes at an age when we KNOW children cannot make an informed choice.

Because they aren't given puberty blockers for very long. Its temporary then they're given hormones which restart puberty but as the sex they identify with. Did you know all human embryos begin as outwardly female until during development, they're developed into males by hormones? Women with PCOS (polycystic ovary syndrome) have sky high estrogen and their own bodies produce testosterone to try to balance it out? Puberty blockers are given to shut the hormones down temporarily and then the hormones given restart it. That's it. It doesn't mess with developement. Everyone here loves to bring up the 2-5% of people who detransition as a means of saying oh well they change their minds (statistically very very low chance of that) but people go on about their lives. 

[darkmoonlady]

3 minutes ago, glorybebe said:

There are male to female who have early set osteoporosis due to the female hormones in their bodies that naturally shouldn't be there.  If you read about how many are no swapping back to their birth gender, you will see the downside of the extra hormones and operations.  I watched one female to male who has to wear a bag since the internal working cannot even allow him to pee and hee feels very awkward trying to have a physical relationship.  There are downsides to gender reassignment, and those need to be explained to the children before they make their decision 

Osteoporosis is an issue if HRT or hormone levels get too low, as long as hormone levels are good and your bone density monitored it isn't a big issue.

https://theros.org.uk/information-and-support/osteoporosis/causes/medications-for-transgender-people/

[el midgetron]

8 hours ago, Portre said:

Yeah, those stinkin' Dems wanting to allow parents to raise their kids while the Republicons know the state is better at raising kids than parents.

Unless it’s parents showing up to school board meetings to voice what they want their kids taught in school. Then they are terrorists who should leave raising their kids to the professionals.

[spartan max2]

10 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

I feel appalled that this issue has been politicized at all.  This should be an intensely personal and private matter, and Dems and GOP should pull their filthy mits of the issue.  This has nothing to do with politics, and politicizing it has only made the situation increasingly shameful and appalling.  I loathe identity politics at the best of times, but when it threatens vulnerable people who are not yet full voting citizens and their physical health and mental wellbeing, then all sides need to be sued into silence imo.  This is a matter for the individual to decide upon once their are a legal adult, and not before.  If they want reassignment surgery the day they turn 18, then great, but any action taken before that day should be grounds for a legal case imo.

I agree with your sentiment but disagree with your conclusion.

It is a deeply personal matter. That is exactly why these decisions should be between families and their medical team. And not politicians who do not know you at all.

Research should guide decisions, not politics. And currently research supports gender affirming care being accessible to minors. There are international guidelines from experts across the world who update these guidelines as new research comes out. That is the proper way to do it and the way all other medical issues are treated. But people can't let's trans treatment follow the same process and instead do knee jerk bans 

Banning treatment causes harm to vulnerable people. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by spartan max2

[Portre]

28 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Unless it’s parents showing up to school board meetings to voice what they want their kids taught in school. Then they are terrorists who should leave raising their kids to the professionals.

Good. You got the latest flavor of Kool-Aid. 

[+OverSword]

12 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

I feel appalled that this issue has been politicized at all.  This should be an intensely personal and private matter, and Dems and GOP should pull their filthy mits of the issue.  This has nothing to do with politics, and politicizing it has only made the situation increasingly shameful and appalling.  I loathe identity politics at the best of times, but when it threatens vulnerable people who are not yet full voting citizens and their physical health and mental wellbeing, then all sides need to be sued into silence imo.  This is a matter for the individual to decide upon once their are a legal adult, and not before.  If they want reassignment surgery the day they turn 18, then great, but any action taken before that day should be grounds for a legal case imo.

As long as they are going to include (aspects of) trans affirmation (which they probably should since trans people exist and go to school) in publicly funded educations institutions then it will inherently be politicized until there is some kind of consensus about how it's done and what information will be taught.  There was a time when people were (maybe still are?) allowed to leave class when teaching about evolution, sex education, and talking about Islam.  It's a process.

Edited March 23, 2023 by OverSword

[el midgetron]

On 3/23/2023 at 1:12 AM, Portre said:

Yeah, those stinkin' Dems wanting to allow parents to raise their kids while the Republicons know the state is better at raising kids than parents.

A woman wearing a “Hail Satan” shirt declared at a recent Escambia County Florida school board meeting that Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) is “Tropical Hitler” and asserted that parents are unqualified to teach their own children about sex.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/03/24/hail-satan-shirt-wearer-desantis-tropical-hitler-parents-not-qualified-teach-kids-about-sex/