House Republicans continue GOP’s affront to law enforcement

[Golden Duck]

15 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

"Othering" is not Identity Politics. I also maintain that suggesting commonalities between political views and social attitudes  is not Othering, either,  but even if it is,  it's not Identity Politics!

It's not "my definition". It's simply THE definition! Identity Politics is about immutable characteristics (sex, race, etc). and I simply cannot stand that!

From now on I shall reply to all incorrect references to Identity Politics with the Princess Bride meme:

Yet you were dehumanising an individual - who was questioning an objectionable analogy - so you could discuss groups in an us/them context.

Youare cherry picking the definition by focusing only on certain traits from a non-exhaustive list.  Accordingly, it is your definition being offered here.

Your othering behaviour fits within a broader scope of identity politics.  Furthermore, you often claim that you, and "your side", are often treated unfairly by other groups.

You can argue by meme all you want to sooth your cognitive dissonance; but, at the end of the day, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...

You could always change your communication and stop talking in partisan term such as us and them, but you'd rather simply get defensive.

[+Paranoid Android]

1 minute ago, Golden Duck said:

Yet you were dehumanising an individual - who was questioning an objectionable analogy - so you could discuss groups in an us/them context.

Youare cherry picking the definition by focusing only on certain traits from a non-exhaustive list.  Accordingly, it is your definition being offered here.

Your othering behaviour fits within a broader scope of identity politics.  Furthermore, you often claim that you, and "your side", are often treated unfairly by other groups.

You can argue by meme all you want to sooth your cognitive dissonance; but, at the end of the day, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...

You could always change your communication and stop talking in partisan term such as us and them, but you'd rather simply get defensive.

Identity politics!

[+Paranoid Android]

Vox leans pretty hard left,  see what they had to say about identity politics back when Trump was first president!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/identities/2016/12/2/13718770/identity-politics

To repeat,  it's not MY definition,  it's simply THE definition!

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Paranoid Android

[Golden Duck]

33 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

Identity politics!

It's your choice to continue to come the raw prawn to this audience.

Despite your chosen narrow definition, it's not lost on anyone that an objection to a comparison based on persecution of racial is what prompted you to enter the discussion.

Keep being defensive.

[spartan max2]

31 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

Vox leans pretty hard left,  see what they had to say about identity politics back when Trump was first president!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/identities/2016/12/2/13718770/identity-politics

To repeat,  it's not MY definition,  it's simply THE definition!

 

So do you agree that And Then comparing Jan 6th rioters being charged as similar to what happened to native Americans and the Japanese WW2 is dumb?

Do you think And Then truly believes that? Because to be blunt I feel like he sort of does.

He could have at any point clarified his statement but hasent. 

People believing that criminal being charged is not only a tragedy, but a tragedy comparable to the natives, seems dangerous to me 

Edited April 3, 2023 by spartan max2

[+Paranoid Android]

5 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Despite your chosen narrow definition, 

It's not my definition,  it's THE definition!

I don't think you know what Identity Politics is,  but as I've already posted a definition as well as an article about it the information is there to learn  if you desire

[+Paranoid Android]

1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

So do you agree that And Then comparing Jan 6th rioters being charged as similar to what happened to native Americans and the Japanese WW2 is dumb?

His views are not shared by me or most conservative,  and they are certainly odd! Are they "dumb"? As dumb as those comparing J6 to 9/11, so make of that what you will!

 

1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

Do you think And Then truly believes that? Because to be blunt I feel like he sort of does.

Probably!

 

1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

He could have at any point clarified his statement but hasent. 

People believing that criminal being charged is not only a tragedy, but a tragedy comparable to the natives, seems dangerous to me 

And comparing January 6 to Paul Harbour and 9/11 is equally dangerous! Such rhetoric only serves to divide rather than unite! 

[spartan max2]

11 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

His views are not shared by me or most conservative,  and they are certainly odd! Are they "dumb"? As dumb as those comparing J6 to 9/11, so make of that what you will!

 

Probably!

 

And comparing January 6 to Paul Harbour and 9/11 is equally dangerous! Such rhetoric only serves to divide rather than unite! 

Is And Thens view shared by Trump's most hardcore followers? Probably.

Jan 6th criminals being compared to 9/11 is a dumb comment. Appels and oranges type of stain on this nation.

Criminals who stormed the white house being charged being compared to national tragedies is dangerous. He may as well just come out with it and call them martyr's. It's not a tragedy that criminal are being charged for storming the Whitehouse. 

Unlike you, I have to worry about my nation in 2024. If Trump loses will there be even more bull****? You brush Jan 6th and Trump soft coup aside as some kind of normal politics. But Trump has radical militia groups who would kill for him. The oath keepers had weapons ready awaiting Trump's signal. And even outside of that he has nonviolent followers who themselves are one dumb conspiracy away from letting people overthrow democracy. In 2024 Republicans control Congress. What will they do when he loses?

No one would kill for Biden. So Kamela Harris saying dumb **** isn't that important. What Trump's more intense followers are believing can lead to real problems. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by spartan max2

[+Paranoid Android]

46 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Is And Thens view shared by Trump's most hardcore followers? Probably.

Not necessarily, but possible. 

 

46 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Jan 6th criminals being compared to 9/11 is a dumb comment. Appels and oranges type of stain on this nation.

At least you are consistent  

 

46 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Criminals who stormed the white house being charged being compared to national tragedies is dangerous. He may as well just come out with it and call them martyr's. It's not a tragedy that criminal are being charged for storming the Whitehouse. 

Comparing protesters to terrorists is what is dangerous, Max! 

 

46 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Unlike you, I have to worry about my nation in 2024. If Trump loses will there be even more bull****? You brush Jan 6th and Trump soft coup aside as some kind of normal politics. But Trump has radical militia groups who would kill for him. The oath keepers had weapons ready awaiting Trump's signal. And even outside of that he has nonviolent followers who themselves are one dumb conspiracy away from letting people overthrow democracy. In 2024 Republicans control Congress. What will they do when he loses?

No one would kill for Biden. So Kamela Harris saying dumb **** isn't that important. What Trump's more intense followers are believing can lead to real problems. 

There's nothing "normal" about American politics, it's one of the reasons I'm so interested in it. But that doesn't mean I see the "soft coup" you allege.

Beyond this there are two comments I would like to make: 1- Trump did not tell anyone to start a coup or become violent with anyone, the people would be violent regardless of what Trump says and blaming Trump is just ridiculous, and 2- there are groups just as likely to kill for Biden as the Proud Boys are to kill for Trump (though honestly it would more likely be killing for their own political reasons, which may or may not line up with Biden or Trump's political agenda)! 

I'd also point out that up to this point no Proud Boy has gone and murdered anyone for the sake of Trump, so this is entirely a hypothetical scenario so far. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Paranoid Android

[spartan max2]

5 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

Beyond this there are two comments I would like to make: 1- Trump did not tell anyone to start a coup or become violent with anyone, the people would be violent regardless of what Trump says and blaming Trump is just ridiculous, and 2- there are groups just as likely to kill for Biden as the Proud Boys are to kill for Trump (though honestly it would more likely be killing for their own political reasons, which may or may not line up with Biden or Trump's political agenda! 

It's ridiculous to blame Trump when his most extreme followers act on the conspiracy that he created, pushed, and organized?

Many of the Jan 6th people said in court that they believed they were doing what Trump wanted. They left after Trump tweeted for them to leave. We have footage of Shamon man doing this. 

And no, there are not groups that are "just as likely to kill for Biden".  Biden does not have the type of extreme followers that Trump does. Idk how you could seriously try to debate that. The people who voted for Biden barely even like him. He dosen't have a cult following like Trump does. 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by spartan max2

[+Paranoid Android]

1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

It's ridiculous to blame Trump when his most extreme followers act on the conspiracy that he created, pushed, and organized?

Agreed that it's a conspiracy.  Not so agreed they're was a coup attempt!

1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

Many of the Jan 6th people said in court that they believed they were doing what Trump wanted. They left after Trump tweeted for them to leave. We have footage of Shamon man doing this. 

How many judges accepted the excuse that "Trump made me do it"????

 

1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

And no, there are not groups that are "just as likely to kill for Biden".  Biden does not have the type of extreme followers that Trump does. Idk how you could seriously try to debate that. The people who voted for Biden barely even like him. He dosen't have a cult following like Trump does. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna709946

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DMr0i6piW_ak&ved=2ahUKEwjejpT9947-AhWC-TgGHVbuDLQQtwJ6BAgHEAI&usg=AOvVaw1ijH7hbTJNDOeVwmE-mq_C

I'm on my phone so I can't make these links neater, but they show left wingers just as willing to commit violence as the worst of the January 6 crowd!

And to keep it apples to apples I didn't discuss the dozens of murders that took place by left wingers during the 2020 BLM riots!

[spartan max2]

27 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

Agreed that it's a conspiracy.  Not so agreed they're was a coup attempt!

How many judges accepted the excuse that "Trump made me do it"????

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna709946

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DMr0i6piW_ak&ved=2ahUKEwjejpT9947-AhWC-TgGHVbuDLQQtwJ6BAgHEAI&usg=AOvVaw1ijH7hbTJNDOeVwmE-mq_C

I'm on my phone so I can't make these links neater, but they show left wingers just as willing to commit violence as the worst of the January 6 crowd!

And to keep it apples to apples I didn't discuss the dozens of murders that took place by left wingers during the 2020 BLM riots!

For better or for worse, our nation has a history of riots. Specially when black people are murdered. Like Rodney King riots in the 90s. All that Treavon Martin stuff. 

We don't have a history of people's trying to obstruct the election certification process. At the "Stop the steal" event.  

Intention matters. We can't have extremist trying to destroy democracy.

Edited April 4, 2023 by spartan max2

[+Paranoid Android]

5 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

For better or for worse, our nation has a history of riots. Specially when black people are murdered. 

We don't have a history of people's trying to obstruct the election certification process. At the "Stop the steal" event.  

Intention matters. 

What did race play in the two links I provided that showed left wingers committing political violence because they didn't like that Trump won!?!?

As noted,  I specifically AVOIDED the 2020 riots and kept the comparisons purely to presidential protests! January 20, 2017 vs January 6, 2021!

Edited April 4, 2023 by Paranoid Android

[spartan max2]

8 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

What did race play in the two links I provided that showed left wingers committing political violence because they didn't like that Trump won!?!?

As noted,  I specifically AVOIDED the 2020 riots and kept the comparisons purely to presidential protests! January 20, 2017 vs January 6, 2021!

Read your post. You mentioned the BLM riots man lol.

The context around people throwing a tantrum is different because the democrats and democratic candiate won't pushing that the election was stolen and attempting to not certify it. 

Trump tried to pressure the VP, DOJ. While the majority of Republicans in the house and half in the Senate tried to not certify the election. 

You can't ignore the surrounding context. These things don't happen in isolation. 

Trump still says the election was stolen and a lot of his crazy followers still believe it. What will they do if they lose again? Idk

Edited April 4, 2023 by spartan max2

[+Paranoid Android]

3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Read your post. You mentioned the BLM riots man lol.

Mentioned. In passing. And WHY did I mention them? To point out that such a comparison wouldn't be strictly apples-to-apples but is worth noting nonetheless! Take out that mention, and you are still left with the January 20, 2017 riot! There's more than that, but comparing one inauguration riot to another is probably the fairest way to do it. 

The one that no one cares about because someone decided to put thousands of extra police on wearing full tactical gear (something that SHOULD have happened on January 6, 2021 but didn't).

 

3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

The context around people throwing a tantrum is different because the democrats and democratic candiate won't pushing that the election was stolen and attempting to not certify it. 

Trump tried to pressure the VP, DOJ. While the majority of Republicans in the house and half in the Senate tried to not certify the election. 

You can't ignore the surrounding context. These things don't happen in isolation. 

As noted in an earlier post, I lost a lot of respect for Trump after his antics in the wake of the 2020 election. But I also wouldn't categorise it as a coup (or even a "soft coup"). 

 

3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Trump still says the election was stolen and a lot of his crazy followers still believe it. What will they do if they lose again? Idk

What if Trump wins, what will the democrats do? After the mainstream media admitted to "fortifying the election" last time round (Orwellian Doublespeak if ever I heard it) what happens if they can't do it again?

See, two can play the "what if" game about elections that haven't happened yet! 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Paranoid Android
Fixed double comment/s

[Agent0range]

2 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

Agreed that it's a conspiracy.  Not so agreed they're was a coup attempt!

How many judges accepted the excuse that "Trump made me do it"????

Be honest.  If some of those people came across Nancy Pelosi or Mike Pence, what do you think they would have done?

[Agent0range]

2 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

Mentioned. In passing. And WHY did I mention them? To point out that such a comparison wouldn't be strictly apples-to-apples but is worth noting nonetheless! Take out that mention, and you are still left with the January 20, 2017 riot! 

Apples to apples?  The BLM protests have nothing to do with politics.  The right tries to paint it as a political thing, but it's not.  You don't know the political beliefs of a black community that believes they are targeted by police.  Civil rights protests cannot be compared to January 6th.  

[+Paranoid Android]

46 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

Be honest.  If some of those people came across Nancy Pelosi or Mike Pence, what do you think they would have done?

You mean the ones carrying a prop gallows that was only 4 feet high, had no trapdoor, and used a tin of baked beans wrapped in orange duct tape for a noose? 

Be honest, if some of those rioters in 2017 came across Donald Trump, what do you think they would have done? 

 

42 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

Apples to apples?  The BLM protests have nothing to do with politics.  The right tries to paint it as a political thing, but it's not.  You don't know the political beliefs of a black community that believes they are targeted by police.  Civil rights protests cannot be compared to January 6th.  

Like I said, such a comparison is NOT a perfect apples-to-apples comparison! Hence the reason I was focusing on January 20, 2017! I provided links to articles and videos for that riot. What do you think would have happened if the same security presence were at this 2017 event as turned up on January 6, 2021?  

Edited April 4, 2023 by Paranoid Android

[Raptor Witness]

1 hour ago, Agent0range said:

Civil rights protests cannot be compared to January 6th.  

Exactly, the BLM protests were against a form of tyranny, while the “Trump riots,” which should be the correct name, were in support of tyranny.

You can only tell lies for so long, before the truth catches up to you.

Trump’s lies are being perpetuated by the Republican Party, because without them, they have nothing left but a doctrine of halve truths, such as their pro-life nonsense. Once you take your first breath on earth, you only matter if you have a nanny.

 

[Tatetopa]

On 3/31/2023 at 5:18 AM, preacherman76 said:

That’s one way to put it. Others might say they are criticized for their political views. 
 

Others might say it’s them that do the attacking. Some might go so far as to say, after looking at body counts, and burnt cities that they are outright terrorists. 

Well there you have it, its not really because of their political views is it?  It is because of the crimes they committed. 

Likewise a political figure may commit crimes.  We have had several governors, Senators, Mayors, and Congressmen indicted and even convicted of crimes.  Some have served time.  The way it is supposed to be in a uniform code of justice, the crime carries a penalty regardless of rank or past position.   Trump is a master at the judicial system.  He has good lawyers.  Whether I think he is guilty or not, I think he stands a better than 50% chance of getting off.

So, let justice proceed.

[lightly]

On 3/24/2023 at 6:01 PM, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Sounds like everyone hates law enforcement right now 

That term “law enforcement” ,in general, but especially when referring to police, has always bothered me.  Our police forces were not created to Enforce our laws?  More to protect the Peace?  To Preserve Law, and order.? ..not to be Forced upon us.   Law and order are existing legal protections..not Enforcements. !?      

[+Desertrat56]

8 minutes ago, lightly said:

That term “law enforcement” ,in general, but especially when referring to police, has always bothered me.  Our police forces were not created to Enforce our laws?  More to protect the Peace?  To Preserve Law, and order.? ..not to be Forced upon us.   Law and order are existing legal protections..not Enforcements. !?      

Not in the U.S.   We used to have peace officers, and police, different groups based on the size of the community.  Now they are all police or sheriff's deputies.    And they are part of law and order, the first part, bringing people in to be examined and deemed guilty or innocent.  The problems arise when the cops start thinking they are The Law.   Then they forget about due process.   It happens a lot and some of it gets in the news.   Their attitudes tend to depend on the attitude of the police chief.  A good one will weed out those and a bad one will encourage them.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

5 hours ago, lightly said:

That term “law enforcement” ,in general, but especially when referring to police, has always bothered me.  Our police forces were not created to Enforce our laws?  More to protect the Peace?  To Preserve Law, and order.? ..not to be Forced upon us.   Law and order are existing legal protections..not Enforcements. !?      

Apropos that, here in Queensland, we have a Police SERVICE. When my old man joined up, and when the ‘honourable’ leader of the opposition for that matter (he’ll turn up later in this conversation) joined, it was a Police FORCE. And, when it had the nickname the Johstapo (after Premier and practicing lunatic) Joh Bejike-Pietersen. At one point, for demonstration, the Uni students were having a protest about (IIRC) gay rights. Joh’s solution? Ambush the protestors and have the coppers beat the living daylights out of anyone they caught. 
Anyhoo…. Reform came and part of that reform was a rename, from a Force to a Service. To serve the community and not enforce rules. Basically, it was marketing, but important marketing when the Police were considered (rightly) to be no better than the thugs they dealt with. 
 

Recently, the ‘honourable’ leader of the opposition (and others, including our version of MTG, Pauline Hansen) were having a whinge that the police should be a Force again because … stuffed if I know, they want a “us versus them” style enformcent Agency I presume. 

[lightly]

On 4/3/2023 at 5:14 PM, Paranoid Android said:

Agreed that it's a conspiracy.  Not so agreed they're was a coup attempt!

How many judges accepted the excuse that "Trump made me do it"????

Irrelevant.    They are being charged with specific violations of law…not for their motivations?    However, donald j. Motivator could be charged with incitement .      ..at trump’s Waco Texas rally, among the expected MAGA gear … T-Shirts were being sold emblazoned with the words   God Guns and Trump  !     So I guess Donald j. has god on his side now?   gimme a break! 

Edited April 5, 2023 by lightly

[+Paranoid Android]

53 minutes ago, lightly said:

Irrelevant.    They are being charged with specific violations of law…not for their motivations?    However, donald j. Motivator could be charged with incitement .      ..at trump’s Waco Texas rally, among the expected MAGA gear … T-Shirts were being sold emblazoned with the words   God Guns and Trump  !     So I guess Donald j. has god on his side now?   gimme a break! 

If Trump told them to do it, that is a valid excuse (presidential order). If the excuse was not accepted it means that the judge did not accept that Trump told them to do it! 

Therefore it doesn't matter what they CLAIM. Their claim holds as much weight as the kid last week at school who tried to blame his friend for telling him to vandalise the boys toilets!