No Ukraine offensive without more weapons – Zelensky

[spartan max2]

3 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

You might just have to reconsider your views and stop making excuses for Ukraine’s poor showing on the battlefield these last 6 months. 

Poor showing ? A smaller sized nation that was expected to be rolled over in a full weeks time has managed to keep Russia back for 7 months with no signs of stopping.

You have an odd definition of poor showing 

[Unusual Tournament]

3 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Just going to ignore the approximate 6,000 square kilometers liberated by the Ukranian military, the destruction of two Russian elite naval infantry brigades, and the failure of the Russian military to take Bakhmut over the last 6 months.  You claimed the Ukranian military is doing poorly over the last 6 months but yet all of that has happened.  I would of mentioned the liberation of Kherson, the only oblast capital that Russia managed to capture, but I think that happened 7 months back.

I have family who are journalists.  Journalism has changed over the past decade or two, before it used to be about facts and limiting bias.  Now journalism is more about selling a story and narrative, kind of like how journalism was around the time of the Spanish-American war.  It's not about knowing more as it is the journalist is trying to sell a story and this story is Ukraine isnt getting enough weapons and ammunition.

…as opposed to the roughly 20,000 sq km that Russia has taken? The longer this war goes on, the more advantageous it will be for Russia. A forever war, is what the Russians want. 
 

I remember you’all carrying on like Ukraine was gonna kick the Russian out with a fair degree of amusement this past year. I told you all it was not going to happen. I’m not going to list the reasons since I find the whole thing done and dusted but suffice to say this war is between Russia and America, Ukraine is along for the ride. How you can post and still stay relevant when you can’t even acknowledge that simple yet highly important fact is beyond me.
 

I was right and YOU and friends, were wrong. Still you doubt me? 

[DarkHunter]

36 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

…as opposed to the roughly 20,000 sq km that Russia has taken? The longer this war goes on, the more advantageous it will be for Russia. A forever war, is what the Russians want. 

How much of that territory has been taken within the last 6 months.  So far Russia has been pushed backed and done an offensive that has resulted in no significant gain in territory but a large loss in men and material.

37 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

I remember you’all carrying on like Ukraine was gonna kick the Russian out with a fair degree of amusement this past year. I told you all it was not going to happen. I’m not going to list the reasons since I find the whole thing done and dusted but suffice to say this war is between Russia and America, Ukraine is along for the ride. How you can post and still stay relevant when you can’t even acknowledge that simple yet highly important fact is beyond me.

Considering Ukraine pushed Russia away from Kyiv and Chernihiv, pushed Russia back over the Dnieper River, and pushed Russia back from Kharkiv to over the boarder at Luhansk oblast it seems the Ukranians have done a fair bit of kicking Russia out of Ukraine.  

I have been pretty consistent in my views that the war would take between 1 and 1.5 years.  To be fair I'm thinking 1.5 to 2 might have a higher possibility of happening due to the extremely mild winter that prevented a winter counter offensive.

You post outright Russian propaganda and misinformation, refusing to cite it but its normally easy enough to find as I did it to you already, and you want to ask how I can post and stay relevant.

[Unusual Tournament]

53 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

How much of that territory has been taken within the last 6 months.  So far Russia has been pushed backed and done an offensive that has resulted in no significant gain in territory but a large loss in men and material.

Considering Ukraine pushed Russia away from Kyiv and Chernihiv, pushed Russia back over the Dnieper River, and pushed Russia back from Kharkiv to over the boarder at Luhansk oblast it seems the Ukranians have done a fair bit of kicking Russia out of Ukraine.  

I have been pretty consistent in my views that the war would take between 1 and 1.5 years.  To be fair I'm thinking 1.5 to 2 might have a higher possibility of happening due to the extremely mild winter that prevented a winter counter offensive.

You post outright Russian propaganda and misinformation, refusing to cite it but it’s normally easy enough to find as I did it to you already, and you want to ask how I can post and stay relevant.

Just embrace the criticism, you guys called it all wrong. 
 

…I’ve been measured and honest in all my assessments and assumptions on this war. I’ve had a ton of private messages congratulating me on my mature and strong defence of the truth. I’m not one to point fingers but some of these messages are not exactly flattering towards certain other posters

[DarkHunter]

16 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

Just embrace the criticism, you guys called it all wrong. 
 

…I’ve been measured and honest in all my assessments and assumptions on this war. I’ve had a ton of private messages congratulating me on my mature and strong defence of the truth. I’m not one to point fingers but some of these messages are not exactly flattering towards certain other posters

I cant remember you being correct once, but I do remember you pushing blatant Russian propaganda and misinformation and pretending like it was legimate information and refusing to say where you got it from.  It was easy enough to track down to its source as you literally just copied and pasted it.

Do you honestly think I care about any rumored private messages you have.  That is just a weird thing to even bring up and has zero bearing on anything being discussed in this thread or on the Russian invasion of Ukraine in general.

Edited March 29, 2023 by DarkHunter

[+Nuclear Wessel]

3 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Do you honestly think I care about any rumored private messages you have

Probably from his mom telling him he’s doing a good job, and what a “smart” boy he is. 

[Occult1]

Zelensky: Ukraine must hold Bakhmut or Russia will ‘smell that we are weak’

''Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has raised the stakes in the battle over Bakhmut, warning that if Russia conquers the eastern city, Moscow could begin building international support for an armistice that would be undesirable for Ukraine. 

If Bakhmut falls, Russian President Vladimir Putin would “sell this victory to the West, to his society, to China, to Iran,” Zelensky told the Associated Press during a train ride from the northeastern city of Sumy to Kyiv on Tuesday.

“If he will feel some blood — smell that we are weak — he will push, push, push.”

[...]

“We can’t lose the steps because the war is a pie — pieces of victories. Small victories, small steps,” he said.

https://nypost.com/2023/03/29/zelensky-says-if-bahkmut-falls-russia-will-smell-that-we-are-weak/

[+Nuclear Wessel]

3 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Zelensky: Ukraine must hold Bakhmut or Russia will ‘smell that we are weak’

''Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has raised the stakes in the battle over Bakhmut, warning that if Russia conquers the eastern city, Moscow could begin building international support for an armistice that would be undesirable for Ukraine. 

If Bakhmut falls, Russian President Vladimir Putin would “sell this victory to the West, to his society, to China, to Iran,” Zelensky told the Associated Press during a train ride from the northeastern city of Sumy to Kyiv on Tuesday.

“If he will feel some blood — smell that we are weak — he will push, push, push.”

[...]

“We can’t lose the steps because the war is a pie — pieces of victories. Small victories, small steps,” he said.

https://nypost.com/2023/03/29/zelensky-says-if-bahkmut-falls-russia-will-smell-that-we-are-weak/

So when's Bakhmut going to fall, @Occult1?

[Occult1]

6 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

So when's Bakhmut going to fall, @Occult1?

Seems that Ukraine is fighting for Bakmhut at all cost, so it might still take some time before it falls.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

2 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Seems that Ukraine is fighting for Bakmhut at all cost, so it might still take some time before it falls.

Or, it won't fall at all.

[DarkHunter]

24 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

Seems that Ukraine is fighting for Bakmhut at all cost, so it might still take some time before it falls.

You been claiming Bakhmut is about to fall since mid October.  Now 5 months later you are saying it might take some time before Russia captures Bakhmut.

Russia has been trying to capture Bakhmut for over 7 months now and still hasnt done it.

Also should be pointed out Bakhmut is also the only area Russia has really advanced in for the past 7 months too.

[Occult1]

3 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

You been claiming Bakhmut is about to fall since mid October.  Now 5 months later you are saying it might take some time before Russia captures Bakhmut.

That's right. Western analysts have claimed for the last 5 months that Bakhmut has ''little real stragic value". There is no reason to believe Ukraine wouldn't have made the decision to withdraw sooner and preserve manpower and ammunition. But Zelensky seems to consider a Russian victory in Bakhmut as a critical turning point in the war (contrary to U.S military assessment), which would explain why they would defend the city at all cost.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Occult1

[Occult1]

3 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Or, it won't fall at all.

That seems very unlikely.

[DarkHunter]

17 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

That's right. Western analysts have claimed for the last 5 months that Bakhmut has ''little real stragic value". There is no reason to believe Ukraine wouldn't have made the decision to withdraw sooner and preserve manpower and ammunition. But Zelensky seems to consider a Russian victory in Bakhmut as a critical turning point in the war (contrary to U.S military assessment), which would explain why they would defend the city at all cost.

It's not like NATO has said that the casualty ratio was 5 Russians for every Ukranian at minimum, other sources were claiming 7 Russians for every Ukranian with occasional daily spikes of 11 Russians for every Ukranian.

Bakhmut was a killing field for the Ukranian military and there was no point with drawing as it would just mean another town or city got destroyed.

Also way to dodge the fact you been claiming since mid October that Bakhmut is about to fall and only now say it might take awhile while the Russian military has been trying to take Bakhmut and failing to for the past 7 months. 

But it does fit your predictions and how you frequently ignore how wrong you have been so you can keep pushing Russian propaganda and misinformation.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

57 minutes ago, Occult1 said:

That seems very unlikely.

Not really.

[Trelane]

1 hour ago, Occult1 said:

That's right. Western analysts have claimed for the last 5 months that Bakhmut has ''little real stragic value". There is no reason to believe Ukraine wouldn't have made the decision to withdraw sooner and preserve manpower and ammunition. But Zelensky seems to consider a Russian victory in Bakhmut as a critical turning point in the war (contrary to U.S military assessment), which would explain why they would defend the city at all cost.

Which US military assessment was that? I don't recall the DoD releasing any assessments. Maybe some individuals commented but not an official assessment.

[Unusual Tournament]

5 minutes ago, Trelane said:

Which US military assessment was that? I don't recall the DoD releasing any assessments. Maybe some individuals commented but not an official assessment.

General Mark Milley has been very vocal and spot-on in his honest assessment of the war’s progression. Just like me

[Trelane]

3 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

General Mark Milley has been very vocal and spot-on in his honest assessment of the war’s progression. Just like me

Ok, so no officially released assessment. That's what I thought.

The good general is vocal about a lot of things and usually embellishes items for dramatic effect.

[Unusual Tournament]

Just now, Trelane said:

Ok, so no officially released assessment. That's what I thought.

The good general is vocal about a lot of things and usually embellishes items for dramatic effect.

Like the pentagon is gonna say Ukraine is heavily pressed Bakhmut and losing but let’s keep pumping more money into this war.

Milley is the best source for an honest answer and he’s constantly consistent and right. 

 

[Trelane]

3 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

Like the pentagon is gonna say Ukraine is heavily pressed Bakhmut and losing but let’s keep pumping more money into this war.

Milley is the best source for an honest answer and he’s constantly consistent and right. 

 

Clearly you have never sat through any meeting or briefing with GEN Milley. I have, he is consistently wrong about a great many things and gets lathered up when he's corrected. The last Chairman I trusted was Colin Powell.

Enough of that babble though.

 

Any updates on that rousing Russian victory at Bakhmut yet?

[Unusual Tournament]

Just now, Trelane said:

Clearly you have never sat through any meeting or briefing with GEN Milley. I have, he is consistently wrong about a great many things and gets lathered up when he's corrected. The last Chairman I trusted was Colin Powell.

Enough of that babble though.

 

Any updates on that rousing Russian victory at Bakhmut yet?

I found Colin Powell to be far too eager to appease his civilian bosses. Milley’s no nonsense to hell who gets offended updates are always appropriate and honest.

You mean the complete collapse of the Ukrainian military defending Bakhmut by the Russian soldiers of fortune? 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

2 minutes ago, Trelane said:

Any updates on that rousing Russian victory at Bakhmut yet?

According to @Occult1, the fall of Bakhmut is just around the corner. 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

Just now, Unusual Tournament said:

I found Colin Powell to be far too eager to appease his civilian bosses. Milley’s no nonsense to hell who gets offended updates are always appropriate and honest.

You mean the complete collapse of the Ukrainian military defending Bakhmut by the Russian soldiers of fortune? 

So, has Bakhmut fallen yet?

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, Occult1 said:

That's right. Western analysts have claimed for the last 5 months that Bakhmut has ''little real stragic value". There is no reason to believe Ukraine wouldn't have made the decision to withdraw sooner and preserve manpower and ammunition. But Zelensky seems to consider a Russian victory in Bakhmut as a critical turning point in the war (contrary to U.S military assessment), which would explain why they would defend the city at all cost.

Hi Occult

Staying worked in favour for the Ukraine as in consumed far more Russian resources that the Ukraine lost and kept Russia focusing their main focus on that location.

[jmccr8]

https://news.yahoo.com/putin-using-bakhmut-destroy-wagner-114704592.html
 

Russia’s months-long battle to capture the Ukrainian city of Bakhmut is being used by the Kremlin to “largely destroy” the private WagnerGroup and put its chief Yevgeny Prigozhin “in his place”, according to experts monitoring the conflict.

Analysts have suggested an ulterior motive to the Russian leadership’s determination to keep throwing mercenary units into the bloody siege, with disagreements over Ukraine increasingly driving a wedge between Vladimir Putin and his long-time ally.