My thoughts, as a liberal, on the Trump indictment

[Unusual Tournament]

37 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

If there's one thing I learned getting caught with a big box of liquor in my college dorm, with 7 other guys... Is that if you all get your s#it straight and all say the same lie, everyone walks.

Trumps guys are going to be clams, IMHO, the snitches have already gone over for Mueller. They did Trump a favor and rooted out every single disloyal employee out of his service.

Bragg is the one who is nervous IMHO.  He only filed with the crap evidence he has, because statuette of limitations is about to expire on his case.

The only one lying and acting for his own interests, is Trump.

Let’s see…after calling for civil disobedience, he left the January 6th protesters high and dry. This is telling in my opinion and I bet many other vocal Trumpets also felt betrayed also. 
 

Then he tried again for incite whatever was left of his followers during his arraignment only to get a muted response. 
 

All these clams of yours will be looking for an exit at the first sign Trump is arrested OR he self implodes (which is more likely). 
 

Bragg is the bunsen burner to Trump’s rump. The more heat the more Trump’s true colours shine throu and whatever gullible are left still waving his American negatives will end up like shamen man, imprisoned, on meds and in a halfway house

[Tatetopa]

On 4/1/2023 at 5:23 AM, zep73 said:

Diplomacy and dialogue to avoid conflict. But if his support is dwindling, like some suggest, I guess my worries are obsolete.

Thinking about it, I may be too cynical.  To me, diplomacy is reaching an agreement on how little one party can offer the other  not to do something horrible to them.

Dialogue is the second party reminding the first how unpleasant they can make it.  Then the second party responds  with what will happen if they try.

IMO we have reached the point of dialogue with Trump. His demands were too high for diplomacy to resolve.

Then there is this, if popularity supersedes the rule of law,  law will not return.  There will be no protection for the less popular should that be the rule of the land.  Back to actual witch burnings.

[+DieChecker]

37 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

The only one lying and acting for his own interests, is Trump.

Let’s see…after calling for civil disobedience, he left the January 6th protesters high and dry. This is telling in my opinion and I bet many other vocal Trumpets also felt betrayed also. 
 

Then he tried again for incite whatever was left of his followers during his arraignment only to get a muted response. 
 

All these clams of yours will be looking for an exit at the first sign Trump is arrested OR he self implodes (which is more likely). 
 

Bragg is the bunsen burner to Trump’s rump. The more heat the more Trump’s true colours shine throu and whatever gullible are left still waving his American negatives will end up like shamen man, imprisoned, on meds and in a halfway house

We'll have to wait and see, I guess.

But we already saw Trumps top guy Allen Weisselberg take bullets for Trump. The only people we've seen go against him are people he personally wronged. All the people he's not wronged are still crazy loyal, just as Cohen once was.

[zep73]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

Thinking about it, I may be too cynical.  To me, diplomacy is reaching an agreement on how little one party can offer the other  not to do something horrible to them.

Dialogue is the second party reminding the first how unpleasant they can make it.  Then the second party responds  with what will happen if they try.

IMO we have reached the point of dialogue with Trump. His demands were too high for diplomacy to resolve.

Then there is this, if popularity supersedes the rule of law,  law will not return.  There will be no protection for the less popular should that be the rule of the land.  Back to actual witch burnings.

Yes, that is a rather sinister approach. It's the blame game, that you Americans seem to be so fond of.

For me diplomacy is reaching an agreement that benefits both, but also demands compromises. Dialogue is the way to get to that point. Accusations and persecutions is not.

Don't get me wrong. I don't care about Trump. I care about what he means to people. I take that part very serious. Attacking him won't change their mind. Au contraire. They have to do that on their own.

 

Edit: Forgive me if I use some words wrong. It can be quite a challenge to find the perfect English expressions, when you're a foreigner.

Edited April 6, 2023 by zep73

[Unusual Tournament]

34 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

We'll have to wait and see, I guess.

But we already saw Trumps top guy Allen Weisselberg take bullets for Trump. The only people we've seen go against him are people he personally wronged. All the people he's not wronged are still crazy loyal, just as Cohen once was.

Strange that Trump mostly ends up in court with friends 

[Gromdor]

7 hours ago, DieChecker said:

We'll have to wait and see, I guess.

But we already saw Trumps top guy Allen Weisselberg take bullets for Trump. The only people we've seen go against him are people he personally wronged. All the people he's not wronged are still crazy loyal, just as Cohen once was.

Weird thing about Weisselberg- After four months at Rikers he suddenly dropped his Trump appointed lawyer for his own personal one. Allen Weisselberg dumps Trump-funded lawyer — legal experts think that could mean “he flipped” (msn.com)

[Tatetopa]

8 hours ago, zep73 said:

For me diplomacy is reaching an agreement that benefits both, but also demands compromises. Dialogue is the way to get to that point. Accusations and persecutions is not.

Yes, I totally get that, it would be my preferred method as well.  It works best when both parties can contribute to an outcome that is more positive than the current state.  I think  it requires a certain maturity and long term thinking.  I also think it requires a certain balance of power.  If one side holds the bulk of the power,  and does not consider long term repercussions, it will just take what it wants.

We do frequently use the blame game in the US,  it is an expression  of a political strategy that strengthens a group by casting all around them as enemies to keep the group pulled together out of fear and hatred.  In our case it appears about to metastasize into a mortal  danger.

You English is easily understandable and well written, and all I know in return is tak.

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

Weird thing about Weisselberg- After four months at Rikers he suddenly dropped his Trump appointed lawyer for his own personal one. Allen Weisselberg dumps Trump-funded lawyer — legal experts think that could mean “he flipped” (msn.com)

The latest I heard on that is Trump Org may still be paying his bills but switched lawyers because they were unhappy with the intense and single minded defense Weisselberg's  lawyer put up without regard to damage he might do to Trump Org.  They replaced him with a guy who knows more about who pays him than about attorney etherical responsibilities.

[zep73]

24 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Yes, I totally get that, it would be my preferred method as well.  It works best when both parties can contribute to an outcome that is more positive than the current state.  I think  it requires a certain maturity and long term thinking.  I also think it requires a certain balance of power.  If one side holds the bulk of the power,  and does not consider long term repercussions, it will just take what it wants.

We do frequently use the blame game in the US,  it is an expression  of a political strategy that strengthens a group by casting all around them as enemies to keep the group pulled together out of fear and hatred.  In our case it appears about to metastasize into a mortal  danger.

You English is easily understandable and well written, and all I know in return is tak.

You seem to be a guy who listens, reflects and cares, and that is actually a bit rare these days. So tak to you too. Or as we'd say in Danish: Det sætter jeg pris på.

[Tatetopa]

43 minutes ago, zep73 said:

You seem to be a guy who listens, reflects and cares, and that is actually a bit rare these days. So tak to you too. Or as we'd say in Danish: Det sætter jeg pris på.

Always a pleasure to see you online.  We can pretend we are having a free flowing and enjoyable conversation in a pub somewhere.

[Doug1066]

13 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

Then he tried again for incite whatever was left of his followers during his arraignment only to get a muted response. 

Trump sacrificed the only 2000 people who were willing to take up arms for him.  They have either just got out of jail, are in jail or are awaiting trial.  They won't be anxious to go through that again.

If Trump doesn't learn to shut up, he is going to get hit with a contempt of court penalty.  He has already provided the judge with enough evidence for a big fine.  He could end up awaiting trial from a jail cell.

 

It seems to me the Rubs have a problem:  their policies appeal to their base, but their base is less than a third of eligible voters.  Trump is toxic to an elected Republican majority.  Abolishing abortion, subjecting female athletes to genital searches and other out-there Republican ideas is alienating the middle-of-the-road and independent voters they will need to win elections.  That leaves them with only two alternatives:  take over the government and abrogate the Constitution or go home.

As failure looms, they will become more dangerous.  We're in for a rough time.

Doug

[Unusual Tournament]

3 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

Trump sacrificed the only 2000 people who were willing to take up arms for him.  They have either just got out of jail, are in jail or are awaiting trial.  They won't be anxious to go through that again.

If Trump doesn't learn to shut up, he is going to get hit with a contempt of court penalty.  He has already provided the judge with enough evidence for a big fine.  He could end up awaiting trial from a jail cell.

 

It seems to me the Rubs have a problem:  their policies appeal to their base, but their base is less than a third of eligible voters.  Trump is toxic to an elected Republican majority.  Abolishing abortion, subjecting female athletes to genital searches and other out-there Republican ideas is alienating the middle-of-the-road and independent voters they will need to win elections.  That leaves them with only two alternatives:  take over the government and abrogate the Constitution or go home.

As failure looms, they will become more dangerous.  We're in for a rough time.

Doug

Too right! I shake my head in disbelief over and over again how 2000 fools learnt the hard way, Trump is no messiah and ready to dump anyone for self survival - yet there are others (and a few on this forum, mind you) that are again drawing sic parallels between Trumps Tuesday arraignment and Christ’s Easter crucifixion. What contaminated water are these people drinking? Here we have one of America’s most (if not the) immoral men, being compared to Jesus. Imagine an army of pick up trucks, complete with truck nuts, waving American flags, playing Christian rock music, armed with guns taking over the country for the glory of Trump.

The only saving grace is Trumps ability to not shut up. He’s his own worse enemy and it’s this attribute that potentially saves America from another 4 years of stupidity and authoritarian rule. Give him all the media he can devour.
 

Not to forget that ****-ing retarded family of his. Seriously, did Trump sun his balls on a nuclear reactor when he was a teenager? Maybe military medical examiner should be looking at Trump and telling us whether Trump is fit to run the country a 2nd time before rattling the monkey cage. In fact maybe the military and other state apparatus should arrest the whole lot. The sooner the better
 

 

 

[acidhead]

3 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

Not to forget that ****-ing retarded family of his. In fact maybe the military and other state apparatus should arrest the whole lot. The sooner the better

"that (censored) retarded family" 

What does that even mean? 

"the military should arrest the whole lot"

Arrested for what? 

 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

5 minutes ago, acidhead said:

"that (censored) retarded family" 

What does that even mean? 

"the military should arrest the whole lot"

Arrested for what? 

 

Guilty of being Trump.

[Unusual Tournament]

3 minutes ago, acidhead said:

"that (censored) retarded family" 

What does that even mean? 

"the military should arrest the whole lot"

Arrested for what? 

 

His disruptive, undemocratic reign of abuse of the law. 

[acidhead]

27 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

His disruptive, undemocratic reign of abuse of the law. 

Never heard of being arrested and charged with "disruptive, undemocratic reign of abuse of the law." 

 

 

[acidhead]

32 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Guilty of being Trump.

Sounds about right

[Unusual Tournament]

36 minutes ago, acidhead said:

Never heard of being arrested and charged with "disruptive, undemocratic reign of abuse of the law." 

 

 

Sedition is a law. 

[+DieChecker]

On 4/6/2023 at 8:38 AM, Gromdor said:

Weird thing about Weisselberg- After four months at Rikers he suddenly dropped his Trump appointed lawyer for his own personal one. Allen Weisselberg dumps Trump-funded lawyer — legal experts think that could mean “he flipped” (msn.com)

That's very interesting and worth keeping an eye on.