What can science tell us about the feeling of an unseen presence ?

[UM-Bot]

Ever had the feeling that there was someone in the room even though nobody was there ? You are certainly not alone.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/365800/what-can-science-tell-us-about-the-feeling-of-an-unseen-presence

[Ell]

Next to my bed is a chair piled up high with clothing and stuff. Once during sleep paralysis I broke the paralysis and attacked this chair. It resulted in quite a mess.

[papageorge1]

I can't say I have had the experience of feeling an unseen presence in the room. Maybe I'm not very psychic. 

I think a lot of this stuff in the article cannot be satisfactorily understood by materialist models as they involve psychic sensing which can't be detected by the three-dimensional physical senses and instruments of science.

[fred_mc]

I don't think I have experienced feeling a presence. On the contrary, I tend to be startled when somebody walks up to me and starts talking since I haven't noticed the person.

[+Desertrat56]

2 hours ago, Ell said:

Next to my bed is a chair piled up high with clothing and stuff. Once during sleep paralysis I broke the paralysis and attacked this chair. It resulted in quite a mess.

When I was a kid I had a chair next to my bed.   It didn't have clothes piled on it but I would often awaken feeling like someone was sitting in that chair, there was a shadow that looked like someone was sitting there.   I would hide under the covers until I fell back asleep.

[+Desertrat56]

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

I can't say I have had the experience of feeling an unseen presence in the room. Maybe I'm not very psychic. 

I think a lot of this stuff in the article cannot be satisfactorily understood by materialist models as they involve psychic sensing which can't be detected by the three-dimensional physical senses and instruments of science.

I find it interesting that you admit you have not had most of the experiences that are talked about here, but you do believe them to be possible.

[+Desertrat56]

As an adult I did have an experience of waking one night feeling and seeing someone standing next to my bed.   I was home alone and I screamed my head off, turned the light on and no one was there.    It was the night my brother died but none of us knew until two days later.   It seemed very real or I would not have screamed.     

[papageorge1]

42 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I find it interesting that you admit you have not had most of the experiences that are talked about here, but you do believe them to be possible.

Beyond just possible, but beyond reasonable doubt from the accumulated weight of the evidence and my judgment of human reliability.

I've never seen George Washington, but I believe he existed.

[+Desertrat56]

1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

Beyond just possible, but beyond reasonable doubt from the accumulated weight of the evidence and my judgment of human reliability.

I've never seen George Washington, but I believe he existed.

My comment was just because most people who don't have experiences of strangeness tend to be unwilling to accept that someone could have a strange experience that cannot be explained by KNOWN physical terms, some even insist that "science proves... or science says..." forgetting that science is an investigation and search for answers, not law.  

[papageorge1]

1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

My comment was just because most people who don't have experiences of strangeness tend to be unwilling to accept that someone could have a strange experience that cannot be explained by KNOWN physical terms, some even insist that "science proves... or science says..." forgetting that science is an investigation and search for answers, not law.  

I am all too aware of those types of people and debate against them all the time.

[csspwns]

5 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I am all too aware of those types of people and debate against them all the time.

Not much of a debate when you have been shown to be consistently wrong by multiple people and unable to produce valid arguments or evidence to support your positions. I'm still waiting for the day something extraordinary that you believe and I don't is proven to be fact. 

[csspwns]

5 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

My comment was just because most people who don't have experiences of strangeness tend to be unwilling to accept that someone could have a strange experience that cannot be explained by KNOWN physical terms, some even insist that "science proves... or science says..." forgetting that science is an investigation and search for answers, not law.  

There are also no strange experiences that CAN'T be explained using science or psychology. We can't disprove a negative.

[Dejarma]

8 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I think a lot of this stuff in the article cannot be satisfactorily understood by materialist models as they involve psychic sensing which can't be detected by the three-dimensional physical senses and instruments of science.

that's because it don't exist

[Dejarma]

31 minutes ago, csspwns said:

There are also no strange experiences that CAN'T be explained using science or psychology. We can't disprove a negative.

yep... after the many thousands of years humans have existed on this planet; still no proof the supernatural is a real thing.. if it was we would know by now IN_MY_OPINION 

[zep73]

5 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

My comment was just because most people who don't have experiences of strangeness tend to be unwilling to accept that someone could have a strange experience that cannot be explained by KNOWN physical terms, some even insist that "science proves... or science says..." forgetting that science is an investigation and search for answers, not law.  

 

5 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I am all too aware of those types of people and debate against them all the time.

 

It all comes down to the electromagnetic spectrum. If you can EXPERIENCE something it's in it, and can be measured by science. So if someone says it can't be measured, it can't be experienced either. Simple. Woo be gone.

[papageorge1]

5 hours ago, csspwns said:

Not much of a debate when you have been shown to be consistently wrong by multiple people and unable to produce valid arguments or evidence to support your positions. 

I haven't been shown consistently wrong, And I can support my positions too.

[papageorge1]

4 hours ago, zep73 said:

 

 

It all comes down to the electromagnetic spectrum. If you can EXPERIENCE something it's in it, and can be measured by science. So if someone says it can't be measured, it can't be experienced either. Simple. Woo be gone.

I am saying we can experience things through our psychic/clairvoyant senses that cannot be experienced by our three-dimensional physical senses and instruments. Science tells us the vast majority of matter/energy cannot be directly detected by our physical senses and instruments (so-called Dark Matter/Energy).

[Sojo]

Since it seems like a good topic for sharing, I too have had experiences of having a sense of someone else in the room. But they have not all been the same.

Sleep Paralysis - I understand the descriptions of visioning someone (or something) in the room with you as a result of sleep paralysis. I have had several episodes. They began (as far as I can remember) around my early twenties. The first time it happened, I worked at night and had to sleep during the day. I woke up on my left side that enabled me to look out the bedroom door down a hallway. I had made some weird vocal sounds due to the sleep paralysis restricting my ability to use my vocal mechanics (and this is always a common feature--try to say anything and you just get incoherent moans or yells). I could see my wife walking down the hallway toward me and it seemed that I heard a voice saying to me, "Here she comes". My wife had heard me and was coming to see what was up. She was able to get me fully awake, and the paralysis and all the visual and auditory stuff just drained away. Since that time, I have had countless episodes but I have learned to be accustomed to them and not feel quite so panicky. During them, I have seen other "beings" in the room. Once it seemed there were a couple smaller ethereal-type beings moving across the room and one even seemed to move through me. Another time, I could not see anyone but it certainly felt like someone came and sat on the bed beside me and took my hand in theirs while I was in that state. I still have episodes, but not as often as they used to come. Some times I'll have one and my wife will tell me about it, but I'll have no memory of it. Once, I even had an episode with the old classic feeling that some hideous "creature" was sitting on my chest looking at me. I can attribute all of these things to the sleep paralysis and accompanying hallucinatory experiences. I have no proof they are anything other than that, but there are some aspects that truly seemed "actual" rather than hallucinatory but I suppose that is the nature of hallucinating.

Fully awake sensing a presence - I've also experienced the sense of some "being" that was present in the room with me while fully awake even though I could see no one present. I had these feelings several times when I was very young (probably beginning around age 5 or 6). The strongest part of the feeling is having some "being" directly in front of my face, but I can't see anyone/thing actually there. I've only had the sensation a few times and it had been many years since I had experienced it, but I recall having the feeling recently (about a month ago), but it wasn't as strong as it had been as I remembered it in the past, maybe because I was so much younger then.

Anyway, I've always been reluctant to share them as they are strictly anecdotal and prove nothing to anyone other than myself because I know what I felt and experienced. But I also know that feeling something, or visually seeing things that are not observable by others means they are strictly limited to the individual regardless of how they may be generated. How or why these experiences come about for anyone is beyond me but thought I'd share.

Regards, Sojo

[zep73]

10 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I am saying we can experience things through our psychic/clairvoyant senses that cannot be experienced by our three-dimensional physical senses and instruments. Science tells us the vast majority of matter/energy cannot be directly detected by our physical senses and instruments (so-called Dark Matter/Energy).

It doesn't sound like you know what dark matter or dark energy is, yet you give it magical attributes.

[papageorge1]

16 minutes ago, zep73 said:

It doesn't sound like you know what dark matter or dark energy is, yet you give it magical attributes.

Please read better. All I correctly said was that the majority of the universe is not directly detectable by the physical senses and instruments.

No magic attributed.

[L.A.T.1961]

Is it possible to be as specific to describe the feeling as a presence?

That implies some type of observer/entity when the feeling could be caused by a different phenomenon.

In my case the feeling I detected was hard to describe but generally negative and created an unfriendly atmosphere that was hard to resist. 

Leaving the room quickly was the only thing on my mind.

I could not sense a personality or intelligence that might be generating the change of environment. Just the change of environment. 

This room generated at least two appearances of, what I consider, out of place objects to go with the feeling of foreboding. 

[zep73]

49 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Please read better. All I correctly said was that the majority of the universe is not directly detectable by the physical senses and instruments.

No magic attributed.

So you're using the "god of the gap" argument? That because something is hidden from our instruments, other things must also be hidden from our instruments. Spiritual things. Without a single hint or thread of evidence.

That is called faith, and you're entitled to have it in peace. I can't argue with that.

[papageorge1]

Just now, zep73 said:

So you're using the "god of the gap" argument? That because something is hidden from our instruments, other things must also be hidden from our instruments. Spiritual things. Without a single hint or thread of evidence.

That is called faith, and you're entitled to have it in peace. I can't argue with that.

I do believe it suggests a respectable theory: Matter in dimensions beyond our three-dimensional physical environment. Theories have their place. This follows from normal reasoning and not the pejorative term 'faith'. I have no faith in these things but just a best attempt to understand,

[zep73]

2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I do believe it suggests a respectable theory: Matter in dimensions beyond our three-dimensional physical environment. Theories have their place. This follows from normal reasoning and not the pejorative term 'faith'. I have no faith in these things but just a best attempt to understand,

Those dimensions are hypothetical and inside particles. They are incredibly tiny. There's no room for anything living or anything intelligent.

[papageorge1]

27 minutes ago, zep73 said:

Those dimensions are hypothetical and inside particles. They are incredibly tiny. There's no room for anything living or anything intelligent.

So, there you're assuming consciousness requires a certain amount of space and is not fundamental? Another idea is that Consciousness is non-physical and matter is just thought. Tell me the limits of what is not possible then? What is space? What are dimensions?

We don't know much down the rabbit-hole we can't see and theories can be postulated. There are certainly (IMO) some paranormal phenomena that requires some explanation beyond our current scientific understanding. New thinking allowed.